The reason why most men struggle with dating is because OLD doesn’t work and cold approaching doesn’t work

midwesternMD · 2020-11-29T04:01:15+00:00

OLD works to an extent, but I agree that it is suboptimal. I’m 5’7”, ~150 lbs, and I’m a divorced physician with no kids. I pay for subscriptions on most of the dating apps except for tinder gold to see my matches. Not to brag, but it seems that I’m a catch among the obese unemployed college dropout crowd.

If I publicly list my occupation, I get some matches from educated/employed women. But even more matches from unemployed/uneducated women. And still, most of them are obese!

I’ve decided that once covid is controlled, I’m going to just date within social circles. If I meet a woman, great. If not, I’ll be able to adventure and travel unencumbered.

salleyva · 2020-11-29T05:08:57+00:00

[deleted]

no_value_male · 2020-11-29T07:01:43+00:00

Most males may be decent as you say, but decent is not enough for women. They are only attracted to exceptional. If a male is exceptional, he will have success regardless of approach method.

ThenIJizzedInMyPants · 2020-11-29T05:28:46+00:00

and just ask women here how they feel about men cold approaching them, they do NOt like it, again it doesn’t work for most guys.

WRONG.

I can tell you from personal experience that 1) if you want success in dating DO NOT listen to what women say, and 2) cold approach absolutely does work. Your batting odds might be better or worse depending on your looks, height, muscularity, location, ethnicity, etc. but it works eventually.

The main reason men don't do it, especially day game, is because it's emotionally draining and requires you to slay your own ego in order to keep doing it after getting rejected. But for the few who do, it pays dividends. Can't tell you how many times women have been indescribably happy that a man was willing to show romantic and sexual intent without being drunk and in a loud club.

TacoMcNeely · 2020-11-29T05:06:12+00:00

Uh allow me to counter

OLD does work, cold approaching does work

Just follow rules 1 and 2

More seriously tho “bust ass, get super fit, have hobbies” also works if you aren’t into the shitshow of OLD and the bar scene

moldovan0731 · 2020-11-29T09:45:09+00:00

So you're saying that OLD and cold approaching is for Chad. No surprise there.

Satanks · 2020-11-29T04:10:08+00:00

I might be off base here since I have no clue what OLD is, but I met my fiance in my software development class. I firmly believe making friends is the best way to find relationships, it allows for a lot of vetting and deep conversations that would probably be missed otherwise.

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2020-11-29T04:33:12+00:00

I'd say the 2 biggest reasons OLD doesn't work is because 1) there isn't enough separation between where people go for hookups vs relationships, and 2) the environment on many sites is too toxic for a lot of women who are looking for relationships. Admittedly, I'm just guessing here. I'd like to know a women's perspective on this.

2020-11-29T08:08:25+00:00

It's all about social circles. Most normie men meet women through friends in social gatherings. No social life (or your social circle has more sausage than a BBQ) = no dating/hookups.

I agree OLD and cold approaching don't work because most women are bombarded with options.

Also demographics are a big issue. There's simply more men than women. Plus women have less need for men than vice versa.

rivetcitymayor · 2020-11-29T03:59:20+00:00

[deleted]

Sufficient-Ad-3586 · 2020-11-29T10:44:31+00:00

In terms of ODL, the only people I’ve seen have success (actually getting dates) were the following.

-Very attractive

-Paid for full subscription on multiple apps and literally spent hours on different apps a day swiping right on every single girl.

I don’t like the idea of online dating, it just seems unnatural to me but I understand that times have changed with technology and COVID lockdowns but that’s just my two cents.

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2020-11-29T04:04:05+00:00

No it’s because they don’t find the guys attractive. Why get with a guy who doesn’t get you horny? This is a mindset a lot women have , stay single or just wait for a great option. This is why a lot women end up “heartbroken”.

xFallacyx69 · 2020-11-29T14:31:41+00:00

I’d rather cold approach a million times then have to go back to OLD

GullibleClassic1 · 2020-11-29T04:37:32+00:00

Average man struggles with OLD, because most OLD sites have a skewed gender ratio, this has been repeated before but many posters here never take this into account.

December 2019 it was estimated that 78.1% of Tinder users were male, compared to 21.9% female, according to stats published on Statista. In the UK, it was estimated by Ogury that 85% of the online dating market was male, as of April 2019. This imbalance was even more pronounced among Tinder users, for which the ratio was 9:1 in favour of male users.”

https://www.businessofapps.com/data/tinder-statistics/

“Online dating trends: Men outnumber women on Tinder by 9 to 1 ( while Grinder wins for age diversity) Men outnumber women on Tinder by almost nine to one, while even “female-friendly” apps like Bumble have fewer than 20% of Bumble users, according to new research.”

http://www.netimperative.com/2019/04/online-dating-trends-men-outnumber-women-on-tinder-by-9-to-1-while-grinder-wins-for-age-diversity/

PM_Happy_Puppy_Pics · 2020-11-29T05:02:06+00:00

Hey man, cold approaching totally works~!

I swear you will be Chad level in a week if you decide to say "I don't give a fuck, I am going to cold approach."

Here is what will happen:

1) you get rejected. a lot.

2) you totally flatter some women, but they still reject you, but they are kinda impressed you have balls

3) most women still rejected you, but they have fun with your flirty jokes and respect what you are doing

4) you finally get success, and your skin is thicker because you realize that most people are going to be rejecting you but you can brush it off because there's LITERALLY NO HARM DONE!

wonderwildskieslimit · 2020-11-29T07:22:31+00:00

Cold approach works if you are working on yourself. Dating pretty much works if you are healthy well rounded happy with yourself.

upalse · 2020-11-29T14:27:32+00:00

You think men are decent because you don’t have to cohabitate and have romantic/sexual relationships with them. Men, in little and big ways betray the fact that they don’t see women as equals. Many men and women won’t catch these things or see the deep implications or their dehumanizing/class lowering beliefs (which inevitable unfold the more time you spend with a man).

Your definition of decent is skewed to benefit you. If me were decent, people wouldn’t warn women (and ppl of all genders) against walking alone at night, men wouldn’t be the perpetrators of most crimes, femicide wouldn’t be one of the leading causes of death for women. You’re either delusional or being purposely obtuse.

SilentLurker666 · 2020-11-29T11:10:44+00:00

If OLD doesn't work, why are women joining these sites in the first place?

wtknight · 2020-11-29T15:02:56+00:00

Poor game is the main reason why men struggle. Men who struggle with cold approaching have poor cold approach game. Men who struggle with online dating have poor OLD and text game. Looks can help but aren't completely necessary. I've known average guys who have done well either cold approaching or online because they know what they're doing and have confidence. There are lots of good tips on how to do better either in person or online, and men need to be using and applying these more and not moping if they are not immediately successful - as being successful approaching either in person or online takes some practice.

Bandit174 · 2020-11-29T04:14:37+00:00

Depends on what is meant by being a catch but personally I think if a guy is actually what women considered a catch they wouldn't be struggling. There are guys who do well with OLD and get laid regularly. Those guys are the ones women see as catches.

GunnzzNRoses · 2020-11-29T07:12:26+00:00

Holy shit, there is no fucking struggle dude.

Cold approach is the ONLY way to get consistently laid. Assuming you're not ass ugly, an actual dwarf, waifishly thin/fat, or painfully autistic, you instantly prove yourself to the woman by approaching with confidence.

It takes no balls, no mustering of ones courage, to dm "hey" on Tinder. It's a much harder game.

The pseudo-struggle you reference, male sexlessness in youth, that is, is due to the concerning growth of men that get internet tunnel vision and only use Tinder, or guys that got rejected once and joined incels.co.

WilliamWyattD · 2020-11-29T05:35:43+00:00

IF there is a growing gender imbalance, OLD can only be one factor.

Ultimately, the driving factor must be that for multiple reasons women are not finding enough men's relationship bid attractive enough. A man's relationship bid is a combination of his sexual attractiveness and everything else he brings to the table.

Again, if there is a significant imbalance, then the issue is that many women would rather be celibate or sleep casually and occasionally with men they do find attractive than pair up with many men for real LTRs.

Regardless of what is fair, it could honestly be that men need to collectively up their bid. Better focus on fitness, grooming and style. Some type of mass male consciousness change where they learn to be strong in a way that still attracts women but also be helpful in a way that modern women need.

LooseIndication · 2020-11-29T09:18:35+00:00

being single is not always a reflection of their mating value

Yes, it is.

Being single is the consequence of not being able to seduce a woman.

Not being able to seduce a woman is being romantically worthless.

SaBahRub · 2020-11-29T04:44:57+00:00

“The reason most men struggle with dating is because women aren’t men”

Zonkey_Zeedonk · 2020-11-29T16:11:30+00:00

People meet each other lots of ways: social circles, work, random chance encounters.

Everyone is just too impatient and obsessed with instant gratification. That’s why we want to rely on things like OLD, because it feels like instant gratification: all you have to do is swipe, then you get a swipe back with an instant yes/no. Same could be said of cold approach, but sometimes it’s just a truth that instant gratification doesn’t mean best results, it just means instant results.

People find partners, because the desire for partnership is evolutionary in us, it’ll just take time and probably happen when you least expect it.

My mom met someone in her 50s after four divorces and four kids from other marriages having 100% given up on dating. They’ve been together for over ten years now and seem quite happy. It happens all the time, just unfortunately not always exactly when you want.

hippiefromolema · 2020-11-29T05:00:20+00:00

Less than a third of people have ever used online dating. Less than half of people aged 18-29 have ever used online dating. If OLD isn’t working for you, try the other more-than-half of humanity who aren’t using it.

daproest1 · 2020-11-29T07:06:21+00:00

This is true. But... the most success I’ve ever had, is when I’m like “fuck it”... So my ex... I wanna say “wife” because that’s how I saw her but we never got married. Which is partly why she left.... I met when I was tending bar. She was outside ignoring everyone looking at her phone. Every one was staring at her. So naturally, I pretended she didn’t even exist. When she came in and gave me her order, I rejected her order, and made her whatever I wanted. She liked it. I got the number. We were together 6 years. She looks like Selena with a Boob job. Gorgeous and intelligent. Helped me start a business which I still have. I helped her graduate debt free with my unconventional way of thinking. It was nice while it lasted. But as with most girls, she got older, changed, her head blew up, and she did a 180 on me. The girls I met after her, I just walked up to without much thought. Said the first thing that came to mind. ALWAYS acting like I had to go. Partly because it was true. And partly because I just didn’t wanna talk to them much. I’d get the number. One was a neighbor. She smiled. I didn’t. Talked to her the following week. Was in her bed the week after that. The rest, including my current gf, I just sent a video to them on Facebook, of me addressing them. Like talking to them.... as if I would’ve approached them in person.

Just... fuck it. The more “fuck it” you are, the better. The less fucks u give, the more fucks u get. It’s easy once u realize women can’t really love u and will leave at the drop of a dime on a whim anyway. Like why would U even take it serious? I know we’re inclined to. Since we’re more romantic and idealistic and shit, I’m guilty of this too... it might not sound like it but I think relationships are very important. I’d like them to be PERMANENT like they used to be... but meh.... all paths lead to the same dead end. Even if you’re married for eternity, one of u dies first, and she’ll get on your nerves.

It sucks to think this way, but this way is the truth. And it’s what ultimately leads to the amount of “fuck it” necessary to not struggle. I’m convinced women feel this from you energetically somehow.

Oh... the ex before the first ex I mentioned, Brazilian swimsuit model who came from a rich family.... I was young af, skin and bones, and poor (jacked and not poor now, which took work, over a decade of it). Just walked up to her at a pool hall. Gave zero fucks. Challenged her to a game. She won. She was good. Got her number. We played again a few days later, I won. She was my gf in a week. Rocky relationship. 40 breakups. She was crazy. But again, I got her the same way. Just being “Fuck it”.

U can’t care. U seriously can’t care. It’s the only way. U must not care. U shouldn’t even be thinking much while trying. That way if it doesnt go well, you don’t even remember.

Also, what’s “OLD”? I keep seeing people talk about that shit on Reddit. What is it? Dating app?

moneygang4life · 2020-11-29T11:48:50+00:00

You just gotta be more attractive and richer and more entertaining than the girls u talk to its really easy guys

DXBrigade · 2020-11-29T12:30:12+00:00

OLD sucks for everyone (even women). It's like a mirage, it gives you the impression that It's easier but it is actually more difficult.

Sultmaker_9000 · 2020-11-29T13:26:28+00:00

Women are totally fine with cold approach, it's just that it's done so badly by most men that is what they women reflect on, and the men are so bad they abandon it so soon. I think 50% of my lays are from women in bars, just because she's in the shop doesn't mean you can't skin a cat another way.

Appropriate_Major_11 · 2020-11-29T04:39:15+00:00

A guy struggling with dating is not about him not being a catch is mainly him not being lucky.

I think it has more to do with him being boring/lacking personality & creativity.

BROWN-TOILET-PAPER · 2020-11-29T04:14:38+00:00

OLD is completely superficial and there are less good looking men than women, and way more men on OLD and than women.

OLD is a Chad lottery for women to play for free and see if they win. Mostly only hot chicks will win, or women with fake, or angle/filter profile pics, so when the guy shows up, he might just say fuck it, close his eyes, use her as a fleshlight n split. Then Mary cries to the internet about where have all the good men gone. Other Marys call her a queen or whatever, you get the picture.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-11-29T03:53:41+00:00

The question is why don't they work, not just saying they don't work. They certainly do work for women even if women don't really approach, so what does that say? Are all of those women "lucky" or is there more to it than "online dating and cold approaching doesn't work?"

revente · 2020-11-29T09:21:18+00:00

OLD and cold approaches aren’t supposed to ‚work’, they are just methods to put you out there. It’s you that’s the problem.

Other_Lingonberry234 · 2020-11-29T09:55:22+00:00

I feel like you are likewise describing many single women's struggle with dating.

Copperstoner · 2020-11-29T11:22:16+00:00

OLD can work, but it is not good. Even if you get some matches with good looking partners, you still have to go to the date to know if you actually feel attraction. This way both men and women lose good matches, because they just judge by pictures. The bad looking guy can still cause tingles in her and the slightly below average women in him, but they'll never meet.

Cold approaching still works for me, but only in group settings in which the contact is natural or at least feels natural.

Eg.: *One women of a group is always looking at me in a bar * --> "Hey, can I join you?" --> Have fun with them and leave with her/exchange numbers/etc. if the attraction is on both sides.

Similar things happen with social circles: It's hard work, but it totally pays off to have 4-6 different circles at the same time. This way you always can meet new people, because it's very likely that somebody brings someone new. You are also more appreciated, because you don't always hang with them.

A guy struggling with dating is not about him not being a catch is mainly him not being lucky.

He can be perfectly fine, but he might still fail to create opportunities for himself. And that's a problem for many (at least with my friends).

Many struggle with

a) creating the opportunity that "something" can happen

b) the possibility that something can happen (they tend to self sabotage at this point)

While I agree that OLD has changed the way we behave, you still have many men who either can't or who don't want to adapt to the changed rules. So I partly disagree

nojuanatall · 2020-11-29T11:36:52+00:00

Warm approaching is the way to go if you are average or below average. Even if it doesn't work or it takes time to work, it will be less of a grind since you will be enjoying your time while building a social circle.

Now, if you see a random woman you dont know in a safe setting and you find her attractive, and she is for example wearing a tshirt of your favourite band or there is any situation that could help you cold approach her then cold approach her. You dont have anything to lose and is low cost situation .

moneygang4life · 2020-11-29T11:47:26+00:00

Oooooor its cuz women have too high of standards lol....

2020-11-29T11:55:08+00:00

I literally made an attempt on my life a few years back due to the constant abuse and ridicule I kept receiving from women on dating sites/apps on account of me only being 5'8" and going grey in my 40s. This was despite me working out religiously and being in better shape than a lot of guys in their 20s Bear in mind that the women I was messaging were in their 40s/50s and were overweight in many cases (a few extra pounds certainly won't put me off)

I never approached in real life due to the number that OLD did on my confidence. Yet in real life I had female work colleagues in their 20s and 30s who couldn't believe that I was single. I used to get comments like "You've got the silver fox thing going on/you're really funny to be around/you obviously work hard on your physique/you've got no shortage of women" I'd laugh at these comments and tell them the reality, they were shocked.

OLD is a cancer for the self worth of most men.

rivetcitymayor · 2020-11-29T03:53:06+00:00

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shadowery · 2020-11-29T15:14:43+00:00

I agree that OLD and cold approaching are probably not the best way to meet people. I think that having a social circle beats everything. I don't think you're doomed if you find yourself within a social circle where all the women are already paired off. Each and everyone in that group (men and women) have other people in their social circles and this could be a great opportunity to meet people who you wouldn't otherwise have been exposed to.

aznpsychopath · 2020-11-29T15:36:57+00:00

Cold approach does work. You just have to be really good at manipulation

hail_galaxar · 2020-11-29T16:01:50+00:00

One in 3 couples met online. I’ve personally met my last 3 or 4 boyfriends online. So it worked for them. I would so much rather be approached online. It gets old asking out married people that aren’t wearing their rings. Do you mean that OLD doesn’t work for some people?

tequilanoodles · 2020-11-29T16:51:26+00:00

I mean, I actually completely agree as a woman. I don't like online dating because you have to sift through so much bullshit, and I don't have any plans to get back on apps after some bad experiences that bordered on sexual assault. I would vastly prefer to meet someone from my social circle. Unfortunately, I don't have a very good social circle, and I think a lot of single guys who I'd like to date are in a similar position.

Oneironaut91 · 2020-11-29T19:11:42+00:00

hwat does OLD mean?

mae1995111 · 2020-11-29T19:23:19+00:00

If women's selection mechanism in todays culture (OLD, social media etc.) was an accurate reflection of the mate value of their partner, then there would be no reason for so much hatred from women towards men.

Look at how many women hate the men they choose on twitter, reddit etc. It should be self-evident that you can be single but be a man of high competence, high intelligence etc.

caveatemptor18 · 2020-11-29T19:58:44+00:00

Skip the BS online. Join book clubs, garden clubs, neighborhood walks. ❤️

WestAd3827 · 2020-11-29T20:35:02+00:00

OLD doesn't work and I agree. I did a lot of 'wine and dine' and it usually ended with 'let's be friends'.

However, I completely disagree that cold approaching doesn't work. I started with Day Game because I am too introverted for clubs and I had full time job (it's hard to awake after a night of drinking).

It took me three months to get first number. Afterwards it took me the next month to get laid to an 7. It was my first relationship with a hot girl and it went really badly. I had more consistency afterwards. After four years, I could easily get laid with 6s, often 7s and sometimes 8s. Then I found out my wife (8.5s) from a street approach and I didn't approach afterwards.

It took me many many approaches to become good at it. Plus all other self-improvement work. But it's doable.

A friend of mine who stayed in Day Game, can continously get laid on the first date. He does have some dates from online dating, but the quality generally sucks there.

Sid_Insidious · 2020-11-29T22:19:52+00:00

Women don't like being approached because if they perceive the man approaching is low value he's stinking up her very fragile "self perceived" SMV. I've met women and later seen their Facebook profiles and then it becomes clear why average men should never DARE approach her. IRL, she looks like a 5. A bit chuky - THICK yes, THICK we can call her.

Hey, she's on Facebook and OH WOW! What a hot looking avatar! And just by her airbrushed face, cartooned eyes, doggy ears - so cute and adorable and she looks like she weighs 120 pounds! WOW! She's like an 8 or 9 on here.....

WAIT a fucking second.

Does she really think this manufactured avatar in any way shape or form represents her actual public appearance and her actual SMV?

SHe's a 5 walking around thinking she's a 9 because simps on Facebook "Like" her attention posts "New hair. It's okay." (humblebrag.) You're so hawt! SO CUTE! Beautiful babe! Hit me up! WOW! Amazing.

This is why women on PPD think women are always more attractive than men in relationships. They are projecting their own +3 self-rating onto other equally average women and affording them +3 ratings as well.

If every women believes the same big lie, maybe they can pull it off.

That's my theory as to how that works. It's about her feeling INSULTED by this lower man's attention. It has nothing to do with fear or safety. Her only fear is that a higher-value man might notice her talking to him, which could make her fake avatar existence feel much less safe.

moviecooknl · 2020-11-30T11:02:04+00:00

A guy struggling with dating is not about him not being a catch is mainly him not being lucky.

No, it's not being unlucky, it's not having game and not being attractive as a man (not just looks, but also masculin qualities) while being needy for the validation of women and others.

What gives you the abundance is that you don't care what other people - especially women - think of you. You have your values, your boundaries, your needs, your identity and you stick to them and enforce them no matter the consequences and you don't let them go because of a woman or your needs for sex.

Guys who don't have game and don't have attractive masculine qualities will not be succesfull in both OLD or in online dating nor will they experience abundance because they validate themselves based upon what others think of him and will "change" accordingly just to get laid.

SteveSan82 · 2020-11-29T07:13:02+00:00

I’ve done best with cold approaching. I do it a few days a week and it has got me laid more than any other method. It got me my first threesome last fall with 2 23 year olds.

Never ask girls what they like. They don’t even know what they want. Watch what they do. Cold approaching is the default method for women to be approached as humans.

Barneysparky · 2020-11-29T04:12:20+00:00

Have a large enough social circle, add to your social circle regularly, don't be a bad person, and you will find someone you are both attracted to, know enough about that you can trust, and actually like the company of.

What more do you want?

doggie_smalls · 2020-11-29T06:05:52+00:00

What is OLD?

AnarchoNAP · 2020-11-29T04:06:50+00:00

I met my husband on a dating site.

Online dating works for men who have the most basic skills and doesn’t work for men who don’t. An example of a most basic skill is reading. Spamming dicks to people who say they’re looking for something serious isn’t going to make you not single. Messaging women 200 miles away isn’t going to make you not single. Messaging me and asking things that are clearly stated on my profile makes it look like you don’t gaf. Marking that you are looking for both casual sex and a serious relationship makes you look like a lying joke. Not being able to answer basic questions like your age or job doesn’t do you any good. Not having a car after a certain age disqualifies you from life in general. Sending me snippets of poems you Googled tells me you’re dishonest. Using a 10 year old picture in a dirty shirt is lazy. I could go on about the pictures with ex’s in them.

It isn’t the platform. The guys doing poorly would fall flat even if you lined them up potential women to talk to. The platform makes women less hesitant to talk to you because it is inherently safer. The platform doesn’t, and shouldn’t, raise your value as a human. Because more people can access OLD than other platforms, a higher percentage will fail because some people are just shit.

duffmanhb · 2020-11-29T07:18:08+00:00

just ask women here how they feel about men cold approaching them, they do NOt like it

I don't think that's the case. Reddit women may think that because they are 18 and think everything is sexist and men are bad. But in the real world, doing it gently is totally fine. I used to do it all the time before COVID. Women just don't like shy, creepy, timid, or weird dudes cold approaching.

colbyfan · 2020-11-29T10:52:55+00:00

I’m not sure why men don’t just befriend women on social media and then go out with those women. It works so easily for me.

Title	The reason why most men struggle with dating is because OLD doesn’t work and cold approaching doesn’t work
Author	rivetcitymayor
Upvotes	172
Comments	368
Date	November 29, 2020 3:46 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/k32dux/the_reason_why_most_men_struggle_with_dating_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-reason-why-most-men-struggle-with-dating-is.748988 https://theredarchive.com/post/748988