There is no evidence to support that 80% of women are sleeping with 20% of men. There never was

TermAggravating8043 · 2022-10-14T15:35:23+00:00

It’s the online dating that’s confusing people and incels are claiming is true. Roughly 80% users of online dating are men so naturally there’s a monopoly for the women who use it and everybody just wants mayfer and park lane

BigZaddyZ3 · 2022-10-14T16:28:05+00:00

That was never the original claim tho. Or else the red pill wouldn’t push concepts like AF/BB (which is an acknowledgment that non-alpha men do get women, just for very different reasons).

The original claims was that 80% of women’s sexual interest goes to the top 20% of males(especially for casual sex). And it’s actually based on a real mathematical concept called the Pareto Principle (The idea that a small number of dominant inputs determine the vast majority of outputs)

The Pareto Principle is easily observable within society. For example : the top 10-20% of musical artist in the world are most likely responsible for around 80% of all music sales and streams. The top 20% of pro athletes are responsible for around 80% of jersey sales. Etc

purplish_possum · 2022-10-14T17:35:08+00:00

The 80/20 rule gets misconstrued all the time here. The rule stands for the assertion that 20% of men get 80% of the sex over the course of their lives. Just like the top 20% of salesmen make 80% of the sales.

It doesn't mean that lesser guys are totally shut out. It doesn't mean that a mid-tier guy can't get married. Likewise, a mid-tier salesman may very well sell enough to pay his bills but he won't be living large. Neither will the mid-tier guy who manages to snag a wife.

What does this look like in real time? Over the course of a year a single Chad will hookup with multiple women some top-tier, some mid-tier, some maybe even bottom-tier if he's drunk on a slow Tuesday night. Chad can get a date easily and if he chooses to can date often.

Single mid-tier guys get dates but they have to hustle for them. Maybe two or three dates a year result in sex and perhaps a relationship.

Single bottom-tier guys are lucky if they get any female affection at all.

When it comes time to pair off and get married. Chad marries a woman to who he's really attracted and they ride off into the sunset to have beautiful children together.

Mid-tier guys make a lot of compromises and settle for the best deal possible. If he's lucky he finds a woman who he likes and who likes him back. If he's not so lucky he becomes a beta bucks slave. The wives of mid-tier guys probably "dated" a few Chads before settling down.

Most bottom-tier guys remain single or marry women with multiple issues. If they do get married the wives of low-tier guys were likely the women drunk Chad fucked on those slow Tuesday nights.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-10-14T17:15:49+00:00

Somehow, a subsection of the internet, primarily The Red Pill, took that study, ignored all of its reasons for the small gap in young male and young female sex rates, and then decided to use a study showing 72% of young men ARE having sex to claim 80% of young men AREN'T having sex because all the women are riding "Chad"'s dick.

Having been the guy who's getting his dick ridden, and seen the level of attention my average buddies get; I am safely say that 80/20 is pretty real. It may not be exactly 80%, but it's close.

The bottom 30% of guys get nothing. The next 30% get lukewarm relationships (BBs and deadbedrooms) and then the rest after that have moderate to high levels of relationship success.

NOTSM · 2022-10-14T14:58:38+00:00

First of all studies are for nerds

Second of all the claim is 20% of men are having 80% of the casual sex.

Liberated_Asexual · 2022-10-14T23:07:23+00:00

Lol'd at your original attempt at making this post OP. Might have fit better for a TwoX post.

First off, this was never the claim. The claim is that women find 80 percent of men to be below average in attractiveness — this is pretty well supported by robust statistics and data.

Also, did you actually read what the study saying 72% of men are having sex measured? It measured the proportion of men who had sex ONCE in the past year. A huge chunk of that 72 percent probably literally got laid only once in the past year. So a more accurate interpretation is that 72 percent of men had sex at least once in the past year, not the misleading verbage you used.

Must be such a fulfilling sex life having sex once a year. It's like people who argue this don't even read the own studies they're trying to cite to push their own argument.

Circling back to the original point, the top 20% of men are having the vast majority amount of sex that is being had.

briiiana1122 · 2022-10-14T15:27:03+00:00

Isn’t this claim from a very old ok Cupid study? Maybe if the basis is that old it’s time to look for new sources anyway.

carritotaquito · 2022-10-15T03:08:34+00:00

Of course there never was! It was just the byproduct of dating apps being 80% dudes and only 20% lasses. That gave the impression of the Pareto principle, despite that was not the real picture.

MrTT3 · 2022-10-14T16:09:03+00:00

The original claim is “80% of women attracted to 20% men” not sleep with them

andrejusilva123 · 2022-10-14T15:56:00+00:00

Nowadays 80/20 is being randomly used by both men and women. The only place I've seen it is in that OkCupid graph that women find 80% of men physically unattractive. Which is true if you look at women's physical preferences you can see that most of them desire above average but still settle because they don't want to be alone and 2 incomes is better than 1.

KayRay1994 · 2022-10-14T15:37:34+00:00

its funny - a lot of men on this sub constantly use that study, but leave out the fact that 5-6% actually end up messaging each other and even less than that actually end up meeting, and even less than that end up meeting more then once. The use of this stat to sell the red and blackpill is grifting at its finest

Overlord484 · 2022-10-14T21:21:36+00:00

I've always heard the statistic quoted as 30% of young men haven't had sex in the last year, which matches your numbers pretty well.

Beyond that a large portion of the complaining is based on (and absent from your post) the perception that a lot of these relationships are dead bedrooms (AFBB for those up on the lingo). No has ever doubted that women will settle (for a marriage); however, they seem to carry the belief that they are somehow above or better than the guy they settled for. If you don't want to have sex with your husband, you should not be compelled to, but you're being a bad wife, and your husband is allowed to complain about it. Nobody I've listened to, read, or watched thinks it's a mark of moral degeneracy for women to complain that their SOs are unskilled or unwilling to perform sexually. I dream of a day when men also enjoy this privilege.

I don't happen to be sitting on a pile of numbers that indicate that these perceptions are accurate, but you seem to have missed the point fairly fundamentally since the numbers you're presenting here don't actually address the concern.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-10-15T06:31:33+00:00

Somehow, a subsection of the internet, primarily The Red Pill, took that study, ignored all of its reasons for the small gap in young male and young female sex rates, and then decided to use a study showing 72% of young men ARE having sex to claim 80% of young men AREN'T having sex because all the women are riding "Chad"'s dick.

80/20 has been around for many, many years before this study was released. The notion that 80/20 originated from interpretation of this study is incorrect.

Have you heard of the OKCupid study referenced here pretty frequently? Aside from that...80/20 never referred exclusively to sex. 80/20 posits that 80% of women are going for the top 20% of men. Doesn't necessarily mean that the entire 80% will date or have sex with those men.

AndrewPotato34 · 2022-10-15T08:57:06+00:00

Why must i compete with chad's genetics and his prowess in the gym, in the dating scene, and in the work employment scene? Chad is everywhere nowadays you just have to be realistic that you'll never beat him. That's why most average men like me are giving up. -> oh yeah and maybe it's because i'm ugly and then it's like all bets are off right>

Logical-Confection-7 · 2022-10-15T14:54:20+00:00

🙌🙌👏👏👏👊👊 finally someone putting this senseless idea where it belongs. The trash. Is just not truth. There is not point to discuss any of this using false premises.

ForeverMaleficent993 · 2022-10-14T15:05:46+00:00

Why do we even care? Having casual sex is not a goal. Its just a thing.

It just means you get to have sex ONE TIME. Do they ask for seconds, thirds or a lifetime of your sex? So the 20% probably arent very good at it. xD

warramite · 2022-10-14T17:20:12+00:00

The data says women consider 80% of men to be below average in appearance... it also says women are still messaging men they consider to be in that below average range

Women get attracted to men because of Looks money status, for men its almost entirely dependent on looks.

But I believe most people end up getting married

This means women are dating these other 80% of guys for reasons OTHER than finding them sexually desirable.... you know like being emotionally attached to them, finances of course, social pressure for marriage/kids, companionship etc...

But considering women initiate 78% of divorces, clearly settling doesn't work very well

domdomdom333 · 2022-10-14T15:00:59+00:00

I wouldn't call 10% a small gap nor near 1/3rd a small group.

As for the pills, pretty sure the access to women was based on online matches rather than people having sex. People already in relationships aren't part of the pill statistics cause sex in a relationship is agiven.

hari_hbp · 2022-10-14T19:26:01+00:00

I think the one iteration of this 80/20 rule that I sort of agree with is that 20% of men get to experience genuine attraction/lust from 80% of women. Every other iteration sounds dumb.

ThrowRAmtf · 2022-10-14T15:15:30+00:00

The problem in my view is that you are conflating sex in a serious relationship with sex outside a serious relationship.

By serious I intend with the aim of marriage, monogamous, stable. I exclude all other arrangements like FWB, poly, otherwise hook ups, "open" or casual sex, and of course sex work, porn filming, etc.

Sure, maybe 70% of men have had sex but what percentage of these men are married or engaged to be married? You are telling 53, but in the age range 25/54 which is a bit too high, most of casual sex happens before, at least for women.

Even if all of them were engaged, there is still 10% of women who has sex outside a serious relationship (as an engagement is a 1:1 stable arrangement) and this is not by any means a small percentage, in my opinion.

OrdinaryFarmer · 2022-10-14T15:58:10+00:00

Your first stat shows age range from 25-54, obviously people who were growing up in the 1990s were playing by the 20th century rules, not the 21st century rules. Social media, and dating apps have had a massive affect on the landscape in the last 10 years. Which would only affect young people. The 35-54 age range should not be included.

peteypete78 · 2022-10-14T18:18:50+00:00

What are your thoughts on this?

That you should stop arguing against the strawmen you make.

ConvolutedMaze · 2022-10-14T16:25:57+00:00

The men in the 30-54 range likely found their partners before the explosion of dating apps and hookup culture. It's mostly that 18-29 range who are most affected and going sexless while young women are mostly doing okay (though sexlessness is rising for them too for various reasons) It's just easier for them since men are still expected to be the ones to approach and also they can actually use dating apps to their advantage too unlike men.

NocturnalCoder · 2022-10-14T20:29:59+00:00

I honestly believe that old is a toxic pool and most men and woman on there are the real "leftovers" and with good reason. I also believe that on old, this wtatistic might hold up and honestly, they can have each other. None of my irl dating experiences have been anywhere near the toxic and hurtful old experience tbh

BallsFace6969 · 2022-10-15T08:31:16+00:00

You're 100% accurate about this being an alternate reality. It's scary when you realize it , and that there are other things repeated in a cult like manner on reddit that are the opposite of true. We have a generation of people looking for advice and getting total BS because "people are angry" and they insist there's a reason for their pain, and you must feel it too

johnnyferrera · 2022-10-14T17:29:53+00:00

Have had sex in the past year? So have have I, last April. Haven't had anything since. See how deceiving that can be?

AidsVictim · 2022-10-14T16:43:07+00:00

72% of young men and 82% of young women have had sex in the past year

Sure, that's a little gap,

10% is actually a pretty significant gap on large population aggregates like this.

Somehow, a subsection of the internet, primarily The Red Pill, took that study, ignored all of its reasons for the small gap in young male and young female sex rates, and then decided to use a study showing 72% of young men ARE having sex to claim 80% of young men AREN'T having sex because all the women are riding "Chad"'s dick.

TRP doesn't claim 80% of men aren't having sex, it's that the top 20% (actually much smaller than this) are having way more sex and better outcomes than everyone else. Most men can get sex with women via pursuing below their looksmatch/betabucks/social utility etc. It's just a way worse "deal" than then men in the top% get.

antimetaboleIsntDeep · 2022-10-14T20:01:19+00:00

The Pareto principle is a fact of nature that shows up virtually everywhere. Just because most guys can have sex doesn’t mean they are having most of it. Look at any social circle/situation/club atmosphere, there’s a couple guys having almost all of the sex. Look at a forest, 20% of the trees are sucking up 80% of the nutrients. Look at a book, 20% of the words make up 80% of the book. 80/20 is a property of nature not some thing incels made up.

kinhk · 2022-10-14T20:56:17+00:00

The 80/20 idea applies to casual sex, not marriage. So your already fighting a fallacy. No one says that only 20% of men get married. Not only that but your taking the numbers too literally. Sure women will "settle" with a regular guy. Happens all the time after they ride the carousel, or as women call it "exploring themselves and their sexuality". Who exactly do you think their exploring themselves with?

Fun_Push7168 · 2022-10-14T17:37:41+00:00

I've never seen that claim , however , you already have ten percent gap total, then you look at partner numbers and frequency and it gets worse. Since those sexlessness numbers represent people that just have had sex once.

If you had the scales In a spectrum sitting one over the other you could draw lines from the women to men and they all go up and up with more frequency.

The women have less sex overall so the top guys sex fills in from lower ranks that leaves the bottom men starved out completely, and it gets better in multiples as you go up the scale.

Basically you have around 30 percent of men getting 60 percent of the sex. The top ten are getting half that , the next ten are getting 35 percent of that and the next ten are getting 15.

mistressusa · 2022-10-14T18:54:07+00:00

Agree with you OP.

emmalineregina69420 · 2022-10-14T19:47:19+00:00

It's like the "alpha male" podcasts that try to prove how "high value" they are but all the prove is how obnoxious and wrong they are.

It's all bullshit to try to make themselves feel like THEY or their ideology are not the problem.

pan3639 · 2022-10-14T16:00:06+00:00

I still believe it.

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2022-10-14T16:00:46+00:00

Men have been saying this for the past 5 years, studies have been released on this the past two.

You just have to grasp that women naturally want the top guy, since majority of men can’t reach that level. Women will fuck who they perceive they fine attractive or on the same level socially wise.

1-800-GANKS · 2022-10-14T17:30:36+00:00

Your statistical conclusions baffles me on multiple fronts.While I can't claim 80% of women fuck 20% of men, because I don't have that data, nor did I make that claim, let me explain why all of your numbers aren't quite right for a moment.

53% of U.S. adults between the ages of 25-54 are married
- This doesn't account for male/male female/female pairings.
- You're using marriage as a way to presume that marriage MUST preclude sex
72% of young men and 82% of young women have had sex in the past year
- Women having sex, and men having sex, doesn't inherently imply that they're having sex together.

What we do know, even assuming the fact of "72% of young men and 82% of young women have had sex in the past year" is that the young men demographic accounts for 45 Million men.

12,613,720 Young Men have not had sex in the last year.

7,836,120 Young Women have not had sex in the last year.

That 10% still accounts for over 4.7 million more men than women who share this experience more than women in America, and this is certainly enough to draw a solid pattern on.

I actually thought the whole thing was bullshit- but after doing the math, it actually has some credence. 4.7M men is certainly an angry number.

GloryToChadlantis · 2022-10-14T23:03:28+00:00

The study about that came from one of the bigger dating sites doing a test on matches. 20% of men got 80% of the likes. I think tinder did it.

But if I was to compare my sex life to that of my friends. That matches up. But that's only anecdotal.

Either way to thought process says work on yourself and you'll have a higher chance to get a good girl.

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missionarymechanic · 2022-10-14T17:55:12+00:00

Though not a scale or unit of value I ascribe to, what you present does not differentiate between someone who has sex once, fifty, or one-hundred times in a year. (Or at least before COVID, but the 80/20 thing has been around for a while.)

Even then, drunken one-night stands and relationships (however you care to define them,) are not equal in terms of risk/reward.

jayval90 · 2022-10-14T18:26:49+00:00

I think the 80/20 thing comes from OLD hookup apps and the ratios there. Also I always took it more as the desirous hookups for women, as in the ones taking part in the hookup culture. There are sizeable populations that don't take part in hookup culture at all, and are having sex with their spouses (that's still 50%).

The complaint was about the remainder.

ViolentTakeByForce · 2022-10-14T19:18:03+00:00

Here’s what I believe based reading different studies(yes including OkCupid and I think it was Tinder), and real life experience.

About 40% of men are having sex or have access to sex.

The dating apps likely follow the 80/20 rule but not every single woman is on dating apps. If you are on dating apps; there is suck a glut of men compared to the amount of women on there, that women would naturally choose to swipe right on the ones they find most attractive. Men are less picky, but if you are average or below, you might get a hit every once in awhile but it’s rare and your closing rate is low. The 7-10’s are running through this 20% of women, but even their closing rates are nothing like if a women was intentionally trying to get piped.

In the real world, especially after women have had their fun(304 phase), they are more open to the 40% of the top men. That bottom 20% of the 40% get a little sniff of puss after getting rejected on dating apps and it’s enough for them to get pressured into exclusivity or marriage from the girl who got ran through. Once they put the ring on it, sex declines or becomes non-existent mostly from the female side. The headache excuses, “not tonight”, “don’t you love me besides sex” guilt trips lol. Men get married thinking sex is now secured and the reality is usually the opposite.

All that to say, being married doesn’t guarantee sex either, so if you comment saying “RP guys don’t consider men are getting married”, I’d be shocked to find out more than 40% of married couples have regular sex.

blockboii190 · 2022-10-14T22:13:59+00:00

Preach

the-lone-squid · 2022-10-15T02:46:08+00:00

Being married doesn't mean you get sex.. at least not very often.

Any-Bottle-4910 · 2022-10-15T12:11:41+00:00

I get this. I get all of this. But… I can say from being that guy in the past that 20% of guys are sleeping with maybe not 80% but at least half the women - Single, attached, and very much married. Women cheat at least as much as men do, and rarely admit to ONS activity or FWB. This shews infidelity and promiscuity stats, as they are mostly self-reported.

Hey fellas, wanna get laid? Find a lady on vacation or a business trip. They are so very often DTF. They want it as much as we do, as long as no one knows about it… especially their friends. And they will screw each other over at a frequentlcy that still startles me.

Just yesterday leaving the gym I walked past a bar I used to work at. Three girls I know from back in the day, who were always friendly with my wife, but we haven’t seen them in years. They looked at my tank top and muscles… never asked how she was. Didn’t ask if we were still together… they all wanted to know how our relationship was and if we were still doing good. Sus. Sus AF.

Quiet-Lie-219 · 2022-10-15T12:38:57+00:00

My thoughts are that a breakdown of communication and a deep rooted pattern of men thinking women are withholding something they have an emotional need for and women believing they need to date to find a future husband exclusively cause unneeded friction and lead to a large amount of people (though not close to a majority, maybe 10-15 percent of the general population) without a partner.

Title	There is no evidence to support that 80% of women are sleeping with 20% of men. There never was
Author	Mental_Rooster4455
Upvotes	117
Comments	298
Date	October 14, 2022 2:41 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/y3vssv/there_is_no_evidence_to_support_that_80_of_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/there-is-no-evidence-to-support-that-80-of-women.1135698 https://theredarchive.com/post/1135698