TRP dread vs. TBP standards.

ppdthrowawai · 2015-07-14T15:22:29+00:00

They are similar but there are subtle differences IMO. Where the BP way failed in my previous relationship was that by informing her of my standards she simply informed me that she would try harder (something that never happened). We had numerous conversations about it which led to nothing. Simply acting on my own, not discussing anything (beginning of dread) made her take action because she saw me taking action.

I think it made it much more real to her. Instead of acknowledging her taking action, I just continued to forge on with the soft dread. Instead of asking if she wanted to work out,I would just work out and she eventually just started joining or doing her own thing.

ToshiroOzuwara · 2015-07-14T15:16:45+00:00

Making threats is weak behavior. If one needs to threaten, then the relationship is already over. It's not nice, and it is not fair. It is denial pure and simple.

What does QT do when she calls him on his "concerns"? Suck it up? Leave with an "I warned you!"?

Seems like an ego driven exercise to issue threats and ultimatums.

GayLubeOil · 2015-07-14T16:30:18+00:00

Your girlfriend is a reflection of yourself. Nothing communicates to the world that you're a fucking bitch like holding a fat girl's hand. Its the equivalent of yelling "hey guys I have no self-respect I sleep with farm animals.

The other thing to remember is your girlfriend can very quickly become the mother of your children. A fat girlfriend will eventually become a fat mother who will raise fat mediocre self indulgent shits.

It's not about dread game or informing your partner of your needs. It's about taking leadership and making her the kind of person who cooks and eats healthy food and exercises properly.

My embryo dude isn't going to be swimming in Cheetos and Mountain Dew and if that means emotional manipulation, psychological manipulation and occasionally bringing her to tears thats 100% fine by me.

I know a lot of people are going to disagree with my assessment, but I honestly care what bestiality practitioners believe.

max_peenor · 2015-07-14T17:20:10+00:00

informing your partner of your needs and leaving it up to them if they want to act to meet them or risk losing you.

Yeah, because women so love passive aggressive behaviors like this.

CursedLemon · 2015-07-14T16:42:34+00:00

High level dread is just making it clear you have standards.

lol no it isn't

The very definition of dread game is specifically NOT communicating your feelings to your partner, in favor of just passive-aggressively hinting that you're too good for them.

ECoast_Man · 2015-07-14T15:26:56+00:00

Huh! TIL that even though I'm notified when my name gets linked in someone's comment, I'm not notified when someone links it in a post. Good thing I happened to spot this.

You already know how I see the difference between "DO WHAT I WANT OR I'LL LEAVE YOU" and "Do what you want, but know that I may leave if what you do makes me too unhappy". And I already know that you see no difference between the two. It'll be interesting to see whether your fellows in TRP are equally incapable of seeing a difference between the two.

haircombsnightmare · 2015-07-14T19:44:28+00:00

If so, why do you always dread? Why do you need to remind your partner in a perfectly fine relationship that you can leave anytime? I call that manipulation and insecurity.

You seem very sure when you say it and specially of the way you say it, as if the outcome could be none other than them changing. The reality is your partner might as well tell you "ok, pack your stuff and leave". That's why it's not a coindicence you also chose for a partner women who need you, because they won't kick your ass the second you start acting like that.

It's not a coincidence you want young, virgin women who don't work. It's not a coincidence you distance yourself from emotions and bonds. You're avoiding the risk of having it kicked back into your face, which hurts. Try a woman with self-esteem and confidence, who can perfectly live without you and is aware of it, but choses to stay with you because she loves who you are. Let's see how brave you are in a healthy love relationship.

nomdplume · 2015-07-14T15:20:58+00:00

It's not oppressive, he's being honest about what he wants . TRPillers usually say to "be emotionally unavailable" and "go and flirt with other women". This seems like passive-aggressive attitude to me .

BaadKitteh · 2015-07-14T18:38:12+00:00

What is starfish sex?

lolobviously · 2015-07-15T05:57:18+00:00

I said this before, the difference between being controlling and having self respect is meaning what you say.

Its the difference between : "If you do this stuff I will not like it and I will treat you bad and hope you learn".

And: "I only spend time with people who treat me/behave like this, period."

One is a person who wants to push and pull and control, and the other is a person saying, I have these standards for how nice I need to be treated and in return I will treat you just as nice, step up or step off.

itsallabigshow · 2015-07-15T12:51:30+00:00

I think that there is no difference in the outcome, either she gets in shape and you stay together or not. There is a difference though and it's all about control and power, as many things in life.

On the one hand you have the demanding person who keeps all the power for themselves. The woman doesn't feel like she chose to become fit, but rather because her partner told her to. She gets her gratification from keeping him, not from getting fit, which in return could easily lead to her going back to old ways again. If it works, you probably have a "beta" female at hand (I call it that because I lack a better word to describe it), who probably has low self-esteem and defines her worth by having a bf, so she is willing to do anything to keep him. I guess submissive could be used to describe her. If she wasn't submissive it would most likely not work.

On the other hand you give some of the power to her, at least virtually. If she changes the results are the same, you got what you wanted just because you spoke some words. The important difference though is that the gf feels like it was her own decision to lose weight and get fit not yours. It surely was your idea and your word most likely started the process, but she gets her gratification from feeling like she took control over her life, she chose what to do and did it ("I am strong. I am powerful") plus she also gets to stay with her bf. This type of person is probably less submissive and has a bigger ego than the first one, because she wouldn't let anybody tell her what to do.

It really depends on the type of person you are talking to. You have a really passive, submissive person at hand, who maybe has some self esteem problems so they do what others tell them because they can't stand behind themselves? The more "aggressive" and direct approach will work better. You will be happy and she will be happy because she made you happy and got to stay with you. If you got a person with a bigger ego at hand though, you might repulse them by simply demanding it from them ("who am I to take orders? I am independent and strong") but you instead give them the feeling that they chose themselves what to do. You'll be happy that you got what you wanted and she'll be happy about what she did for herself and probably also that you are happy, because a happier you means more compliments/sex/whatever she likes as a side effect.

And if either approach doesn't work you can still cut your partner off. I personally would go with the "softer" one first and if it doesn't show results after some time I'd go for the "more aggressive" by giving the partner one last chance and telling them what I want and what is going to happen if it doesn't change. If the first approach works I feel like I get more netto happiness, plus it's more likely that the partner stays fit because they chose to become as fit as they are themselves, the second one is more of a last try to save something

[deleted] · 2015-07-14T18:43:03+00:00

I can't see the difference either. It's another example of red pill theory being perfectly acceptable and bloops not understanding it, only funnier than average. Also, her name's quantumtrolling so it might be a troll.

ExpendableOne · 2015-07-14T16:11:19+00:00

There is no difference. That is straight up dread. It is telling that guy "if you don't do what I want you to do, I will find someone else who will do it", and doing so under the assumption that this is even a possibility. It's probably actually even worse when that woman does it, because she would actually be in a position of power(socially and sexually), would be supported by her peers even if her expectations were completely unrealistic and/or unhealthy and would face no real repercussions for abusing that power. It's one thing to inspire and lead people into positive change by example or even trying to get someone to change their behaviour through some kind of bargening or conditioning but generally that would also be under the assumption that the relationship isn't on the line either. This clearly isn't that.

Whisper · 2015-07-14T20:31:36+00:00

I can't perceive the difference. High level dread is just making it clear you have standards. A feminist man telling his girlfriend that either she she shapes up or she risks losing him, that's causing her distress and the goal is to get her to comply. And vice versa.

The difference is that one is content communication (message delivered explicitly in the literal meaning of words), the other is process communication (message delivered by the implications of behaviour).

Content communication is inferior to process communication. Sometimes CC is enough, but CC is much less likely to be believed or taken seriously, because CC can be a lie, and PC cannot.

BaadKitteh · 2015-07-14T18:45:23+00:00

You're trying to act like the wording and the way you act doesn't count as long as you have the same goal - in this case, for your partner to take better care of themselves and show more enthusiasm for sex. You are completely wrong. Couples who respect each other do not flirt with other people in front of their SO, a common component of "dread game", nor do they simply disappear for hours with no explanation, they are not rude and dismissive, nor mocking and cold. The idea behind the way a mature adult couple interacts is not about scaring your partner into worrying you'll leave, but helping them when they are exhibiting behaviors that show they might be depressed or in need of support. It's about showing love and reaffirming your dedication to them and your relationship, not showing how disposable you consider them. I'm sure that all sounds ridiculous to you, but it's how successful relationships work, not one-sided ones.

alreadyredschool · 2015-07-14T16:09:17+00:00

Communication is always overt hinting, dread is covert and making her come to the realisation that she has to work harder.

chasingstatues · 2015-07-14T20:30:28+00:00

The difference is that in one situation, you have a relationship based on solid communication. You always know what your partner wants from you and they always know what you want from them. You both understand that relationships are based on conditions and trust.

In the other situation, however, communication is avoided or even frowned upon. Instead you play manipulative games like middle schoolers.

Yonderlander · 2015-07-14T18:13:57+00:00

Why are you publishing that conversation? It makes you seem retarded.

wazzup987 · 2015-07-14T20:16:09+00:00

So if i remember right the first 4 or 6 level of dread revolve around fixing you, basically showing you haven't gotten complacent. the latter level of dread focus on getting you partner back in the game. if you are going through all the level of dread sequentially by the time you get to level ten you relationship is probably dead any so it acts as a hail mary. levels 11 and 12 if i remember correctly are only if you are locked in marriage with no escape but divorce rape.

dread game has vastly different feel to it than a blue piller saying to their so hey this isn't working for me any more what can we do.

[deleted] · 2015-07-14T21:04:48+00:00

High level dread and clear communication is the same thing. It shouldn't even be considered dread because the woman is not dreading that her man will leave her. She knows that her man will leave her.

ManRAh · 2015-07-14T21:50:20+00:00

It's so simply they can't see it.

"I'm telling you what you need to do if you want to maintain this relationship."

vs.

"I'm telling you what makes me happy with the relationship, but leaving out the obvious consequences if you don't keep up."

They're exactly the same, but one pussyfoots around half the issue.

RareBlur · 2015-07-14T22:04:38+00:00

WTF, you could actually, I don't know, talk to her instead of playing childish games. There is obviously something wrong, that perhaps SHE is unhappy about that is the cause of this change in behavior.

if she isn't entertaining me, she's getting nexted.

What a terrible relationship. I hope her response is to call your bluff.

"hey, your looking and behaving in these ways is making me unhappy in the relationship; if you want me to be happy with these things, here's what you'd need to do".

That's the same damn shit!

Both of you are fools.

[deleted] · 2015-07-15T00:50:02+00:00

I'm RP, and I still don't understand why you'd use dread. If you're unhappy, leave. No explanation, communication, or passive aggression required. There's 3+ billion women on this planet, on to the next one.

As for married men that can't just leave, you chose, poorly.

Pleb-Tier_Basic · 2015-07-15T01:07:15+00:00

One of the few threads where I disagree with the bluepill opinion in question (don't get excited, I also disagree with the redpill opinion here too).

Both people in this example are making a fundamental mistake: their placing the blame on the partner for the relationship problem, when the relationship problem is within themselves. Let me explain (for the love of christ, read the whole thing before replying; I know sometimes thoughts that are longer than a sentence are hard to process for some people here but please bear with me):

Becky is getting fat, and she's lost the will to suck dick. Those are not problems in the relationship. Those are things about Becky that have changed. When Steve started dating Becky, she was a different person, and that person is who Steve wanted to date/marry/whatever.

Now, a person changing isn't always bad. If Becky had lost weight, started doing squats everyday, and got a boob job, I doubt Steve would be complaining. The problem isn't that Becky has changed, it's that Becky has changed into a person Steve likes less than the one he started dating. THAT is the current problem; not that Becky has gotten fat/sucks less dick (she probably doesn't care), but rather, that Becky has gotten fat/sucks less dick and Steve isn't as interested in being with her as a result.

This is a small but important distinction. Becky isn't the problem Steve is facing, Steve's perception of Becky (fit/attractive/etc), and what he expects from the relationship (regular sex) is the problem Steve is facing. At this point, some of you are probably going "well no fucking duh" but I feel that it's necessary to make this small distinction, because by doing so, we are able to see a third way. To continue:

So far, I'm at the same point as OP. What's Steve to do?

Other commentators are right in saying that the TRP and the TBP are saying basically two flavours of the same thing, because they are; one is passive and one is aggressive, but both are advocating getting Becky to change her behaviour, at the risk of Steve ejecting from the relationship. Put simply, on a long enough timeline, this approach just wont work.

TBP will fail because Steve is essentially handing away any form of agency in the relationship. By giving Becky an ultimatum, he's putting himself in a corner. What if she doesn't change? Then he's forced to break it off, or risk losing all weight his word carries; there is no room to manoeuvre, no potential compromise. Similarly, if she does change, now he's going to feel obligated to her; after all, she did all this to make him happy, surely he can return the favour. Some people will read that and be like "yup that's a win" but I disagree. I feel that we should do things for our SO's because we want to, not because we're so heavily dug into a balance of give-and-take that we have to in order to keep the whole thing stable.

TRP will fail because it will introduce a power dynamic that will have to be maintained. If Steve uses dread game, he's also putting himself into an ultimatum. Even if it works, it's a temporary solution; what's stopping Becky from gaining the weight back? More dread game? Steve is basically forcing himself into a constantly push-and-pull dynamic wherein Becky starts to slip, he dreads, she cleans up for a bit out of fear, gets lazy/comfortable, and starts slipping again. Here is what I've never understood about dread game: what's the end goal, exactly? To dread her the rest of her life? If you have to force the relationship into something it's not once, you're going to have to keep using said force to keep it there, because that isn't it's natural resting place. This will be you for as long as you date.

Both methods presented will eventually fail. Any method presented as "unless Becky does X, Steve will do Y" will fail because Steve can't control Becky's behaviour. This is why, generally, I avoid ultimatums in my everyday life; when you deploy one, you essentially tie your hands and give away your ability to make decisions regarding your own behaviour. Even if Becky does change, that is only a temporary solution; she isn't doing as her choice to change, but rather because she feels obligated/forced/etc to change.

Both approaches won't work, because they assume that Becky is the problem and therefore, Steve needs her to change, either by convincing her (TBP) or by forcing her (TRP). Steve, however, can only control his own actions; no amount of persuasion, no amount of dread, and no amount of whatever can make Becky into the person Steve wants here to be.

There is a third way.

Steve is only in control of Steve. Steve's problem isn't that Becky has gained weight/stopped sucking dick, Steve's problem is that these things have happened and now he is less interested in her as a result. Steve can try telling this to Becky, and maybe she will change, but there is no guarantee; it's equally as possible that she'll just dump him right there.

So what should Steve do? If I was Steve, I would sit down and have a long, hard, honest conversation with myself. I would think about the relationship as a whole: why I got into it, what I want out of it, where I see it going in 2, 5, 10 years. I would think about the things that have changed, how those changes make me feel, and what I would want different. I would consider what it would be like to be single again, what my life would be like without Becky, and how that would make me feel. I'd think about our kids/assets (if we have any). I'd think about how serious these problems are.

I'd think about all that for a long time. I'm talking at least 6 months. I'd sleep on it. Work on it. Drink on it. See if things changed, and if so, how?

And at the end of all that thinking, I'd sit down and make a plan of action based on the answers to all those (and hundreds of other) questions. What this plan would be, I don't know. Maybe it'd be talking with Becky, or couples therapy. Maybe it would be cheating or trying to open the relationship up. Maybe it would be me breaking it off. Maybe it would be nothing, and I'd just learn to live with the changes. I don't know what the solution would be; all I know is that they would be things that I can do to change how the relationship is functioning, not things I need Becky to do, because I can't make her change, only she can. From there I would enact my plan, and modify it accordingly as things go on.

And maybe that means breaking it off. To be honest I really do believe people here are way too afraid to just end bad relationships. If things are so bad that you're seriously considering ending it/cheating/inspiring dread in your partner, you probably should just end it on principle.

nemma88 · 2015-07-14T18:07:46+00:00

No. I can't perceive the difference

We humans are complex social creatures, even the exact same sentence in a different tone can convey completely different message. It can produce completely different responses and will shape views. These points though are pretty different.

Check out any business related 'Effective communication' courses. The way you phrase something can have dramatic differences in outcome, and how responsive people are; and yes, less shitty is accepted generally as getting better results.

Title	TRP dread vs. TBP standards.
Author	Sepean
Upvotes	9
Comments	184
Date	July 14, 2015 3:06 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3d9ebt/trp_dread_vs_tbp_standards/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trp-dread-vs-tbp-standards.281016 https://theredarchive.com/post/281016