Using Maslow's Hierarchy as a way for men and women to empathize with each other's sexuality experience.

cautionTomorrow555 · 2021-12-14T02:02:42+00:00

Esteem needs

Mens desire for sex also plays heavily into this because it has such a massive validation aspect from both their partner, society, and their place in the world. If you get the feedback that you are garbage and not worthy of validation or touch that would heavily affect your esteem and self-worth.

GridReXX · 2021-12-14T02:04:07+00:00

EQUAL to breathing/secretion/hunger/thirst.

I don't need physical freedom to live, you could strap me into a machine, shove tubes at both ends, and I could live but it it no way would be desirable and some would pick death over living that way.

While life without sex isn't that bad, I would put it as a need in that the lack of it makes many men (not all of course) pretty miserable. Its no longer the case but I went through some of that at 19.

Vohsrek · 2021-12-14T01:22:52+00:00

My old LTR, my bf had an extremely high libido. I have a super low one due to medications I take. He often expressed he felt “broken” or should see a doctor due to it; that was the extent of his instincts and urges. It was certainly eye-opening for me in regards to male sex drive. Still, it’s difficult for me to comprehend the desire for sex on a need basis. I’ve never experienced such a thing and so can not construct it in my mind.

DreamsOfWishes · 2021-12-14T02:38:03+00:00

I know an incel guy that's mid-30's, he's... off. Like, he always was a bit off, but he was quirky off, now he's... dangerous off.

And, I'm pretty sure that him being quirky off led to him ending up an incel, but him having no sex led to him becoming dangerous off.

It's like, at one point, he mentally just cracked because of the lack of sex. And...I saw it evolve and happen, so I do truly belief that sex is a need for men.

But even then, doesn't it belong on the "safety" level, health is also on that level and isn't this an health issue?

MuMuGorgeus · 2021-12-14T09:12:26+00:00

I'm a man, but I don't consider sex a need, you won't die for lack of sex, trust me, or I would be dead by now.

ruboyuri · 2021-12-14T01:22:22+00:00

Sorry, too many men say they want to be desired. And also the slut shaming. And shitty sexual demands

If women had similar sexual experiences to men, even I would consider casual sex. But that is not how sex is conducted by men

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-12-14T04:13:18+00:00

There's no point in using this to get people to try to empathize with each other. Needs are experienced and gained on an individual basis. There is no group effort to satisfy everyone's needs. That being said, people don't really care about other people's needs before their own, either. That liberty is only given when one has what they need already. People who don't have what they need will do whatever they can to satisfy those needs, even if it means stepping on or over people to do it.

This is the nature of reality, so, put simply, women don't really care about the needs of men, and vice versa, because everyone is only trying to do for themselves most of the time.

wtknight · 2021-12-14T04:16:31+00:00

Tl;dr: Men view sex as a base "need," women view it as a higher-level "need."

Too much of a generalization in my opinion. Some men "need" sex a lot more than others. Some men don't really need it at all but don't mind having it. Some women "would like" sex a lot more than others. Some women really don't need sex at all and actually prefer going without. The only area where there is really a difference is where the median of the male and the female libido is.

ohdiddly · 2021-12-14T02:19:54+00:00

I’m pretty sure the original Maslows hierarchy of needs does not include ‘sex’ in the physiological section. That was added in later adaptations, and likely not even by Maslow himself.

I find the inclusion of sex in the physiological section strange… and inaccurate, because it changes the fundamental message of the hierarchy. Maslows original hierarchy of needs explores innate human needs at an individual level, starting with self-actualisation, and ending with physiological needs that you would literally die without ie. breathing, water etc. Putting sex in this category doesn’t make sense, because no one would die simply by not having sex.

Sex as a physiological need would indicate that the hierarchy is no longer about an individuals needs as a human, but as a species requirements for survival, which is a whole other topic really. In that case, even using the word ‘sex’ would still be inaccurate, as we don’t need sex for a species survival, we need reproduction.

Sex is not, and will never be in the same category of breathing/drinking/eating/sleeping as an individuals need for survival. Reproduction would be at that level for an entire species survival, but then so would things like community, tool construction & fire, but I can’t see anyone arguing for those to be included in the highest level of needs, again, because I think it changes the fundamental message of the hierarchy.

dbz19 · 2021-12-14T05:05:22+00:00

Lots of women have a pathological mentally ill hatred towards guys who are subtly unattractive, not masculine, or whatever. It's why you have subs like /r/niceguys or /r/justneckbeardthings or /r/inceltear. Can you imagine this level of pathological hatred towards rapists and wife abusers and men who cheat? Where is that? Instead we have 1000x the level hatred those men should get, but towards guys who are socially awkward and don't have success with women.

When you have this level of mentally ill hatred, any form of empathy is impossible. Yeah you could point to how wanting love and affection and so on and so on is a basic human physiological desire that every normal person experiences, and its normal to be sad over not having fulfilment in your life.

But to acknowledge that would make them feel guilty for feeling hatred. It's easier to just go "you're not owed sex, incel!" while seething over why their chad boyfriend hasn't proposed after 3 years of dating.

no-regrets1999 · 2021-12-14T01:57:42+00:00

I think sex is important but I wouldn't consider it a base need.

loke2dabrain · 2021-12-14T02:10:24+00:00

According to Maslow, "sex" is a need in the same way BREATHING, SECRETION, HUNGER, THIRST, etc are needed.

Nah. Sex is great but it ain't comparable to my need to breathe air lol.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-12-14T08:31:07+00:00

Our innate impulses and differences matter. But we also need to look at culture here. In particular, today's digitally-powered culture is extremely strong in many ways. Now, since we are all prisoners of our culture to some extent, none of this changes the OPs message about having empathy for the other gender.

But to look at things more deeply, we should think about how the constant titillation we all experience impacts this 'need' for sex. It think it impacts both genders, and is slowly pushing female sexuality towards something more traditionally male. But men are more vulnerable to this culture exacerbating the 'need' for sex.

So I'm not making practical policy suggestions or the like. But I do believe that some other cultures and religions, for all their other faults, did understand something about not 'rubbing sexless men's noses' in the fact that they aren't getting much sex. This would also apply to men who have some sex, or are married with someone they are bored with or no longer attracted to, etc. I have to imagine any of these scenarios would be easier to handle when men and women were mostly separated, people dressed modestly, and there was not a constant bombardment of erotic imagery. Again, not suggesting we can or should go back to all of that. But just food for thought in terms of perspective.

SuperSupremeKai · 2021-12-14T01:53:48+00:00

[permanently deleted]

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-12-14T03:10:40+00:00

Sex would be nowhere on the hierarchy for me.

Orgasms, on the other hand...

NockerJoe · 2021-12-14T02:36:48+00:00

I mean, the hierarchy makes sense in practical terms. That is to say, enough men will abandon morality, resources, or even family to get laid that their priorities are evident in that way. If you asked an average man how they would structure it they probably wouldn't think of sex in the same way explicitly but by observing actions the hierarchy makes more sense. Shit, I know I've blown off work for a woman I wanted and the concept of sex for resources is kinda older than human civilization given even apes can be observed doing it in a direct transactional sense.

I think the main issue you didn't really get in your prior category is that sexual intimacy is a different need on the same level as friends and family in addition to just sex as a base need. You can't really substitute one for the other in the same sense you can't substitute food for water. I've seen a few PUA's straight up say if there's a girl around who already likes you you should go after her rather than chase 10's and learn game, and even on anonymous places like 4chan where prostitution guides occasionally pop up the distinction gets made by Johns who do it frequently. This is kinda why incels can't just use prostitutes as much as the last aeek suggests otherwise and why they don't: They have two needs and only one is getting filled that way.

Mib_Samuel_ · 2021-12-14T03:01:16+00:00

Wrong, that thing is not a need. You have a post from me here, explaining in detail the errors in statements like that.

2021-12-14T23:41:58+00:00

Time scale is important, and I like to use the example of vitamin C and scurvy. You don't "need" any vitamin C today. You can even go a few days to a week and not notice any change, but if you go long enough with a vitamin C deficiency it will eventually catch up with you. Taken to the extreme you will die. So, vitamin C is a need (our bodies literally can't make it, we're one of the few mammals who have lost the ability). But, if you focus only on a short time frame you'd probably reach the wrong conclusion. Less extreme vitamin C deficiencies will still give you scurvy, with all the unpleasant symptoms, but won't be the thing that kills you. Still, it's a pretty shitty way to live. Most people would agree that chronic scurvy is not a "life is good" life. It's pretty callus to tell someone with scurvy that their "obsession" with vitamin C is problematic, "you're just a big baby! You don't need vitamin C. You won't literally die if you don't get it today. I've gone days and I'm fine!"

Replace vitamin C with sex, and that's pretty much the state of the conversation.

OwnerAndMaster · 2021-12-14T03:01:33+00:00

Sex as a need peaks between 15-27 imo

In your 30s it's meh. It's honestly liberating that sex is way less important. And the best part?

Women your own age have way less leverage / influence over your decision making right when they're about to hit the wall and need beta bucks bailout billy to step in and salvage their lives into a Hallmark / Disney ending

It's hilarious because in their youth, they have absolute control over most betas until they suddenly have none at all and then it's "time to stop playing games" no wait the game's just started and we're actually equals at this age, let's keep playing awhile longer 😂

There's a reason the typical marriage age is 28-32. Before that, there's entirely too much Chad seed to enjoy, and Chad doesn't commit, so she doesn't marry. Past that, the salvageability of a woman's life is incredibly low. There's just enough youth and beauty left around 29 to browbeat a beta billy - who swears he's the luckiest dude in the universe for picking up Chad's alpha widow so he can 'treat her right unlike the other men' - into the dumbest decision of his life

E-2-butene · 2021-12-14T01:15:34+00:00

it didn't sound as "base need" as to how men were describing it.

I wonder how much of this is just a product of getting it when they want it a lot more often.

Water doesn’t feel like a base need until I’m thirsty.

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mbrseb · 2021-12-14T10:15:31+00:00

The original pyramid had reproduction as base need instead of sex.

Somehow it was changed. It became like in Aldous Huxley's brave new world

The elites want the middle classes to just work and never have children

Also Google "how to have many children" and you will find an article "how many children should you have" as the first result, demotivating you from having children

midwestufohunter · 2021-12-14T15:06:03+00:00

I need to feel safe

If I don’t I’m not going to want sex.

Have you tried making women feel safe?

MelisandreStokes · 2021-12-14T15:46:45+00:00

The existence of men who choose to be celibate makes this argument wildly unconvincing. The fact that you don’t die without sex obviously proves it’s not a physiological need.

lostindahlia · 2021-12-14T23:02:54+00:00

This chart is all wrong.

Glarkin42 · 2021-12-15T05:17:06+00:00

Sex is a need for many, a simple poll is what would you rather do, have sex but die at 30/40 or not have sex but live until 100?

Many men will take the former, it's such a great need men absolutely killed each other over it.

Vtridolla · 2021-12-14T02:00:18+00:00

Aye I wanna see the graphs and math expressing how many of us men make women actually have an orgasm from sex. Y’all talking about “need” and all this bs I wanna see how many women are actually pleased and taken care of sexually by yall. Cause I’ve been talking to some homegirls and alot of us men leave alot to be desired.

Title	Using Maslow's Hierarchy as a way for men and women to empathize with each other's sexuality experience.
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	22
Comments	127
Date	December 14, 2021 1:07 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/rfv9c8/using_maslows_hierarchy_as_a_way_for_men_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/using-maslows-hierarchy-as-a-way-for-men-and-women.1092576 https://theredarchive.com/post/1092576