WGTOW: Why are so many women dissatisfied with men?

NarniaFox · 2020-02-11T11:30:41+00:00

You should take into account that some women stay single just because they don't have time for relationship. Not everyone, who isn't interested in dating, is dissatisfied with the opposite gender, sometimes they're neutral or have other things that demand their time and attention.

insertcredit2 · 2020-02-11T11:31:33+00:00

There are a load of different answers here not just 1.

Women are making more money than men under 30 and going to college at a greater rate. This means it's hard for women to find a high value man around their age.

High value men have lots of women competing for them so they are very demanding and a lot of women want to be independent.

both sexes are less interested in chasing each other as they have more things to distract them than ever before. Internet, videogames, travel, porn, greater access to hobbies/leisure actives/larger social groups. Why would they want to give that up for a relationship?

Internet dating has made sex easy for women who want it.

a lot of women have fallen for the idea of working hard, and making money will get you a high value partner not understanding that high value men aren't looking for 35 year old women working 65 hours a week in middle management.

Chandira143 · 2020-02-11T13:55:28+00:00

I think social media/online dating are to blame. I grew up in a world without either. I believed in love. I worked hard to make myself into a good person/partner and I’m very happy in my relationship.

Recently, I had to create a social media page for a public position. Within about 6 months my impression of humanity has gone to complete shit. People are no longer concerned with being a valuable human, they are only concerned with marketing a persona on social media. Men HATE women, view them through a distorted sexual lens. Women HATE men and vacillate between being victimized and victimizers. They have no idea how to “own” their sexuality in a way that keeps them safe from physical and emotional harm. I guess I equate it to how men and women interact in a giant strip club world.

I hate it. I have to remind myself that there are others out there like me. I fear for my future children. (Edited to add more paragraphs)

Reverend_Vader · 2020-02-11T11:02:40+00:00

My own take on this is that there is a mixture of experience with "bad" men and by that I don't mean abusive and such, just guys that offer little to improve their life outside of company and $$$, men's main "use" is also taken for granted (providing and supporting) so they no longer get brownie points from women for fulfilling their historic obligations, it's still covertly expected (I watched my dating pool turn into a puddle when I communicate that I don't pay for women anymore)

Add to that the constant noise of "historic oppression" and women telling each other they do more for the guy than the guy does for them, creates a mindset of never feeling it's worth the hassle

Put both together and remaining single will always feel better than being in a relationship

That said my personal experience is most single women my age have thrown in the towel due to a history of shitty partners or they have too many issues of their own to attract a man they desire for a LTR, then there are the undatables

I'd guess at less than 5% of women I know being single but I'm closing in on 50 and a lot of the relationships I see are of convenience, not love when they talk to me in confidence or vent and I'm left thinking "why stay"

I'd say the men in my bubble feel exactly the same though so it isn't a women dissatisfied, it's men as well

prunusamygdalis · 2020-02-11T16:06:06+00:00

If you are a woman in your early 20s and you wanna do the wild and crazy college co-ed thing, you do that. This is a very low percentage of girls, probably between 1-5%. The rest of them are looking for a boyfriend/life partner.

The issue...men in their early 20s are children. Men do not seem to be ready to settle down and actually commit until their mid to late 30s at earliest. So these girls end up dating some kid for 5, 7, 10 years... only to realize that he has 0 plans to move into the next stage of life with her.

So she leaves him. That is where I find myself now. Men in their late 20s/early 30s are better than early 20s, but still have glaring, horrific flaws. They are mostly addicted to pornography, to the point that many are sexually dysfunctional. There is the additional grossness to knowing your partner is expending a good portion of his sexual energy staring at close ups of untold number of womens' genitals and/or mouth instead of investing it into your union. It really does feel like cheating, the level to which most men compulsively use porn. They also will insist on porn-like sex, which can be painful and degrading. Not romantic at all. After a while of this, the woman gets sick of the man's shit and dumps him. Then she is single once more.

It seems like men are refusing to live up to their end of the bargain, and that is why women are opting out. Women want marriage, a home, a family, and are willing to contribute in every way possible (including financially, most of us are college educated and work decent jobs) to this future. Men refuse to commit, obsess about porn and childish hobbies like videogames, and just generally are a waste of time.

Even if you find one who has interesting hobbies (aka not vidja, netflix and chill as the only dates, etc) they are usually promiscuous af, bouncing around fucking as many women as they can find, and that is profoundly unattractive. They can do this because just by... being a rock climber/musician/trail runner/salsa dancer/whatever in their spare time they are above 90% of other men in terms of being interesting and they know it. They use this to just slut around with women in whatever scene they frequent.

Basically, men inherently want to have sex with as many women as possible. The ones with interesting traits have a lot of female interest and utilize this to do so. The ones who are boring, out of shape, low achievers are not prizes. ALL of them are obsessed with pornography, which is icky af and radiates from them during sex.

So yes. Men are not satisfying. They are not worth the effort. They are not worth the work it takes to be in a relationship with them. For netflix and chill and porndick? No thank you.

Creation_Soul · 2020-02-11T10:43:03+00:00

I read somewhere that men in LTRs are less likely than women to maintain platonic relationships with other people of the same sex and instead rely on going out with groups of other couples.

So there is a high chance that the women you were seeing out are not single at all, but just hanging out with other friends.

poppy_blu · 2020-02-11T11:06:27+00:00

Dissatisfaction results when reality does not live up to our expectations.

Each of us has a choice to make in life:

be mad at reality for not living up to our expectations
accept reality and adjust our expectations
seek to improve ourselves/how we react to any given situation (because we will never be successful in changing others)

Ie, accept the things you can’t change and change the things you can

One of the most rewarding things about being middle aged is my life is half over. I ain’t got time for bullshit any more. My life got exponentially better when I stopped focusing on people and the world not meeting my expectations and focused on making the changes within myself to get what I wanted. Because otherwise you’re just a prisoner to the behaviors and actions of others.

Here’s a comically simple example: I can get mad that my H forgot to take out the trash. Or I can accept that he forgets things sometimes but is an otherwise wonderful husband and take the damn trash out myself.

To answer your question OP, the problem is not men, and the problem is not women. The problem is too many people who don’t want to accept reality and expect others to adjust to their expectations.

To be clear, I’m not saying people should accept abuse, manipulation, poor treatment, etc. In that case, adjusting your expectations is being willing to walk away and be single until you find better.

41013 · 2020-02-11T18:45:11+00:00

Having a lazy dude who never picks up after himself, plays video games and ignores you, can’t be bothered to socialize or plan outings, and is meh in bed is a net negative, no matter how much $$$ or other stuff he brings to the relationship. Juice, squeeze, you know the routine.

Barneysparky · 2020-02-11T12:59:44+00:00

I can speak for my demographic. Women my age and older are trending towards dating but keeping different households. I can't think of anyone I know in the past few years who have sold their homes to move in together. My own mom moved in with her guy, but has no plans to sell her own home 15 years ago.

The reasons are various for maintaining your own space, and often have nothing to do with opting out.

diffdedbed · 2020-02-11T14:25:00+00:00

The problem with discussions like this is that there isn't real data presented and everyone gets to fit the assumption into their narrative.

When there is data, and it wouldn't surprise me if there is an increase, its often a few % or years different than the past and yet its trumpeted as a major shift that will change everything forever.

Lets take marriage ages, average was 20 in 1950 and 27 for women today. 7 years is a lot but in 1950 we were still getting over wars, travel was harder, and education more limited (and less necessary).

In this case you will get a lot of "oh women don't need men for money anymore" while you will see others on this site talking about how hard it is to make money as a millennial and the middle class dream is dead, and you NEED two full time incomes to survive (also bullshit but political motivated bullshit).

Basically this isn't really a discussion from facts, no one is ironmanning the opposition opinions, its just "I feel a thing and these are my strong opinions why based on my feelings on the subject, backed up by very limited to no data.".

exit_sandman · 2020-02-11T15:42:14+00:00

Considering that the notoriously single, childless women above a certain age are considerably more likely to be well-educated, for them I assume it's a mix of

dissatisfaction with the options she has (oftentimes because of hypergamy as TRP defines it)
being overly cautious (basically too much FTO: instead of taking a chance, they postponed everything until they end up alone)
spending too much time on her career at the expense of her social life
alienating potential mates because her (in her eyes finest) qualities aren't necessarily a pull factor

says_harsh_things · 2020-02-11T13:59:25+00:00

[deleted]

Notsonewguy7 · 2020-02-11T13:04:16+00:00

The relationship was never based of a love for either party it was always a relationship of necessary convenience and or lust. With lust being much easier to satisfy the only thing left is convenience. For some relationships are no longer convenient or I should say as beneficial as it once was, for some.

The desire to couple up is there but instincts that push one to do that are satisfied. One can eat, feel secure, and have sex without any commitment. The relationship is not necessary and both parties are realizing it was never really that special to begin with.

But women like men are egotistical and while they can see the fault in others ignore the ones in themselves. This has created a narrative from both genders that the "failure" of modern relationships are based on some fault of the other party.

The the reality is men and women are not special.

87AudreyHorne · 2020-02-11T15:52:53+00:00

Anecdotally speaking I dont see this so much as just women who have relationships and then those relationships eventually breaking until the next one after a certain phase of being single.

What I can tell though is that most women I know in their 30ies arent worried about marriage or devastated if a relationship (even a good one) didnt work out. I know a few people who went through a break up just recently for different reasons and they're not stilling their wrists.

I think it's a generational thing and not a women thing but we all know marriages and relationships can break and we all know we can be just fine by ourselves, so if things arent working out a self respecting/sane person doesnt desperately cling on to it even if it's hard.

I think more single/dating/not super committed women are relieved they're not married or having kids than depressed about why they dont have those things yet at least from what I can see (despite some popular beliefs on this sub)

Wallstreet3 · 2020-02-11T15:34:45+00:00

Why are women dissatisfied? Because nothing or no one is good enough. They will always be unhappy.

ifelsedowhile · 2020-02-11T11:07:20+00:00

because they no longer need a beta provider and they find only a moderate attraction at best for betas. so they rather stay single and resort to high quality sperm donor in case they want kids.

Willow-girl · 2020-02-11T12:18:29+00:00

It's the economy, particularly in the working class. In the old days, men were still a PITA, but they brought home a paycheck that kinda made up for it. The compromise was acceptable. Nowadays, few men can support a family, and lots are a net drain on a woman's energy and finances. I doubt most of these soyboys raised by single mothers even know how to change the oil in her car or get her lawnmower running!

2020-02-11T14:20:23+00:00

If they are getting support from the government they are not going their own way.

Somehow women have come up with the idea that men hate them ( men are hard wired to like women) so they hate men.

Honestly. I wish all women would go their own way and stay away from men. Stop stealing from men. Stop selling nudes on Instagram and just do it. Form lesbian communes etc. Everyone will be happy

SocietalEngineering · 2020-02-11T15:55:33+00:00

Modern society has taken the BB out of the AF/BB equation. The government and feminism now supply enough resources to safely ignore the beta providers.

Women just share the Alphas for their sexual needs, and that’s that. Everything taken care of.

2020-02-11T20:09:39+00:00

It’s not men, there was a great selection of men 5 yrs ago on OLD and I make new friends easily. IRL 3 yrs ago there were men who thought the world of me and were down for serious or whatever I wanted.

The porn thing started getting in the way of relationships for me for a maybe unexpected reason from 08-15 when high speed internet porn really took off. I had been using in it a relationship when I was being sexually neglected (cheated on) and then after when I was single and dating, but successfully quit. Decided I wanted to give all my sexual energy to one person.

Ofc the next guy I was seeing was really into porn but was also dating around, so I was trying to date around, too, which didn’t work, and I never knew when I’d see him so I started using porn again, incorporating it into our text flirtation and sex. It just sucks how much a part of everyone’s daily life it seems porn is. Kind of like social drinking. You hope someone grows out of it but some people won’t/don’t. It’s like couples are still fucking but also The Blob (internet porn) is an integral part of almost everyone’s sexuality now. I definitely would never date anyone who says they’d never give up porn and freaks out at the suggestion.

I want to stress though that it’s not men- it’s me. If I get a crush I might change my mind, but looking for a man to fill a position in my life is not even on my list of priorities.

SerpentCypher · 2020-02-11T10:59:44+00:00

Well this is ever so predictable.

Men- Problem is women, standards too high while not being "all that" themselves.

Women- Problem is men. Men are shit, want women as sex slave mommy wives and women are being emancipated because they deserve better.

acenosk · 2020-02-11T10:35:59+00:00

Because they fail to secure a Chad and then get bitter and give up.

Every woman gets a taste of Chad now, but they can't all keep him. After they get a taste they can't go back to billy beta.

Orange_Paisley · 2020-02-11T16:30:57+00:00

Because we do not have to settle for a subpar man when we can have a career, form a social circle, pursue sexual relationships, and even raise kids without weighing ourselves down with an albatross who has nothing to offer and in fact detracts from our life quality. Women already do most of the housework and child rearing and we are catching up and even surpassing men in education and earnings. Not saying all men are subpar - far from it - but it isn’t worth settling for the ones that are anymore. An educated single mom with a good career has more status than a high school educated married waitress.

Teflon08191 · 2020-02-11T17:30:14+00:00

Both genders are dissatisfied with one another and both are basically playing chicken to see who needs the other the least.

I do find it fascinating though how all of these concepts always seem to begin as male philosophies (TRP, MGTOW) which then get hastily adapted into female equivalents (FDS, WGTOW).

ElGupo1978 · 2020-02-11T23:32:13+00:00

The average man can not afford to bankroll a woman’s projected lifestyle, not enough 7 figure guys to go around

exit_sandman · 2020-02-11T13:18:32+00:00

[removed]

MuleFool42 · 2020-02-11T15:03:05+00:00

Whenever I go out I see at least one or more tables that have just women. So I see what you're seeing. I think men do the same thing, they're just out golfing or fishing or something. So it may just be something that has always been there.

Zippo-Cat · 2020-02-11T19:19:29+00:00

Women only find top 10-30% of men attractive. But monogamy forces them into relationships with unattractive men.

How fucking hard is this to figure out.

abaxeron · 2020-02-11T20:18:02+00:00

Anecdotally and based on data, more women are "opting out" of relationships and staying single.

More than who? Men? Or women historically? - I dug some data back in my day, and it very much depends on the region. Early, almost mandatory marriages somehow came "back into fashion" around post-WW2 period, worldwide; a lot of what we're seeing now is just trends bouncing back to historical norms.

nosynobody · 2020-02-11T10:41:40+00:00

Cos women have improved and evolved while a majority of men stayed the same. They want the freedom of having a sexually liberated society yet want a gf wife who does all the housework. Women have come upon the realization that it's better to opt out than stay in unhappy situations.

DangZagnut · 2020-02-11T11:15:58+00:00

MGTOW bad, WGTOW good.

Yeah. Makes perfect sense. That’s not in any way an agenda there.

Who cares why women don’t like men. Good for them. I wish they’d all opt out, but it seems a vast majority of women want that money, which is the only reason women waste time with men anyway.

gimpgirl555 · 2020-02-11T11:25:49+00:00

Anecdotally and based on data, more women are "opting out" of relationships and staying single.

Yeah, totally, just like more men are "opting out" of sex. It's not that they can't get boyfriends to save their lives, they just don't want them.

Instead, they are cultivating platonic relationships with friends and using that as a substitute for romance.

And then they try to steal each other's men.

Which begs the question: Why are so many women dissatisfied with men?

Because men are not giving them free stuff. And they were led to believe that they would be dating rich and handsome guys who are also gourmet chefs.

Is this a problem with women or men? Are women standards too high? Are most men bad partners? Why is the average women uninterested in the average man?

Because the average woman is holding out for Christian Grey, or Mr Darcy, or the Witcher.

Jathrowaway97 · 2020-02-11T11:55:37+00:00

[deleted]

zerofeetpersecond · 2020-02-12T13:13:40+00:00

I think women are simply more affected by modern media and have expectations a lot of men can't live up to.

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2020-02-11T13:50:58+00:00

There is less incentive to 'make do' or settle now. Not long ago you were expected to be settled down by 30 or younger than that, and you were largely restricted with who you met. You can reasonably expect a limitless number of suitors and there is little pressure beyond your own biology to settle down.

NeedingAdvice86 · 2020-02-11T15:58:58+00:00

I travel quite a bit and so eat out at cafes and bar quite a bit as a solo....

First....I do see the packs of single women BUT reality that it is obvious that MOST of them are not choosing to be single by choice...that is your first mistake or lie. Giving the impression that these are packs of hot, success swimsuit model females who have given up on men. Hardly, they are almost exclusively less than prizes themselves....see weight issues, not particularly attractive, etc. In most cases, I suspect that it is mutual at best or just as likely that they aren't getting many offers for romance or dating to reject.

2nd.....it is selection bias.....single men don't go to the places you are seeing these packs of women...single men tend to congregate at other places than in a café, bar, restaurant for dinner on a Saturday night. If you went to a golf club or a sporting event, then you would see mostly men in groups drinking beer, socializing and etc along with very few groups of single women.

Truth is that there is a growing singleness or loneliness problem among all people because people are becoming less social and more isolated behind their phones and online internet avenues rather than going out to places and events.

2020-02-11T21:33:57+00:00

[deleted]

OpdatUweKutSchimmele · 2020-02-12T00:23:56+00:00

Anecdotally and based on data, more women are "opting out" of relationships and staying single. Instead, they are cultivating platonic relationships with friends and using that as a substitute for romance. This is something I've personally observed a lot. Whenever I did romantic activities with my girlfriend, there would be a group of women out together.

Yes, I've recently indeed noticed that I effectively do this; I never made a bold statement or some political movement out of it; this is just wht I do.

Which begs the question: Why are so many women dissatisfied with men?

I am not dissatisfied with any particular gender in that sense and I think here lies the problematic assumption.

I am simply not interested in the entire concept of a "life partnership", and I think many more individuals are not.

I never even "quit" relationships; I have been single all my life; it was just never something that held my interest or I specifically looked out for. I'm not "aromantic" or whatever; life-partnerships just don't hold my interest; I'm perfectly capable of running my life alone.

Is this a problem with women or men? Are women standards too high? Are most men bad partners? Why is the average women uninterested in the average man?

Again, you make it too gendered I feel; gender has nothing to do with it for many.

superbungiechair · 2020-02-12T01:51:58+00:00

I just think that the popularity of a conventional “lifestyle” as a whole is decreasing. Dating, getting married, having children, etc. Personally, I just don’t find a need in dating lol. I love someone, but if they don’t love me back then I’m fine. I’ve been seeing more people feel like dating isn’t important, too. It’s not that men are dissatisfactory, it’s more like there’s just not a need for having a partner and being an independent individual is a whole lot better.

KazROFL · 2020-02-12T05:57:54+00:00

The only true WGTOW are women who don't have kids and are choosing to be single. The rest are WSTOW.

Many suffer under the delusion that they can become a mother all by themselves and do a decent job, these are not WGTOW. These are desperate women who will poorly raise a kid to satisfy their narcissism.

goatismycopilot · 2020-02-12T15:51:25+00:00

They are more indifferent. Now that they do not have to marry loser guys and pop out baby people just to survive many don't.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-02-12T18:02:39+00:00

A combination of standards being high and men checking out and not interested in meeting those standards.

Iron-Giant169 · 2020-02-13T09:36:20+00:00

80/20 rule is in effect

_lexxxi_98 · 2020-02-13T15:00:32+00:00

Because we try so hard to be the perfect girl for these guys and its almost never enough. I literally have went every direction to please my boyfriend and he still looks for something different. You can only try so hard for people when enough is enough. Why do I have to keep putting myself out there for you when you aren't doing anything for me? If I can change the way I look, flirt more, and any other thing you ask, then why you can't you put some effort in? Us women are being shoved away by men and expected to come back from that and learn something. Be better than before, and it's getting old. Yes I love my boyfriend and want him to be happy but when do my feelings and what not come into play??

AccomplishedPumpkin3 · 2020-02-14T04:02:32+00:00

IMO, theres nothing wrong with having standards that are very high, even if it is unlikely you'll ever find a partner. Thats your choice. If you want to find a partner, its important to be realistic about your options, what you can offer, what a potential partner can offer, whether or not a relationship and the responsibilities that come with a relationship are worth it, if being single is better than lowering your requirements, etc. If you come to the conclusion that being single and never dating men/women is right for you, go for it.

DubsPackage · 2020-02-14T13:58:13+00:00

Who cares.

MGTOW don't care if you like them, and WGTOW can go fuck off too.

Women are dissatisfied? Women have been dissatisfied since the beginning of time, I don't think I've ever met a jolly woman in my entire life.

That being said, alot of women in modern times are dissatisfied because they have to work full-time in a corporation and still try to live up to female gender roles from a time when women had alot more free-time, alot of women feel like they're getting ripped off (and they are.)

Not by men, but by the ruling classes, we're all getting ripped off.

2020-02-11T10:45:31+00:00

Women like to socialize and travel in packs like any other herd animal. While they are bitching about men at the mall, guys are at home bitching about them to their online gaming buddies in between fap sessions.

There is no actual qualitative difference between these two groups. Their war of words to determine who is REALLY Gtowing just proves they both arent.

WIA20XX · 2020-02-11T13:04:03+00:00

WGTOW is very small compared to FDS.

But to answer your question, there has never been a time where they have been satisfied.

bonusfruit · 2020-02-11T13:35:30+00:00

There is no wgtow. Not with the entirety of mainstream media, academia, the government and popular culture behind them

tomo5807 · 2020-02-11T16:47:43+00:00

Because nothing can please a woman.

taapy234 · 2020-02-11T18:54:41+00:00

A lot of women have only had negative experiences with men. A lot of guys are manipulative, pushy, and cruel toward women. Or are only interested in sex and not a relationship.

Some people get sick of trying, and find their own happiness being single.

thedeadpill · 2020-02-12T02:03:44+00:00

I don't have any data for this one, but in the leftist circles I've hung out in, many of them are just of the blanket mind "man bad". They can't even envision what a 'good' man is to them, and find fault with anyone they end up with.

In the right-wing circles I've been in, most of them just can't find a man that's traditional enough.

Eventually, they give up.

I can't say much about centrists, except that they seem to be happiest.

vicistvic · 2020-02-11T14:24:50+00:00

Men are impure sexual libertines. They stink like the chicks who have defiled his body and their eyes reflect their wretched faces.

Workaholiconew · 2020-02-11T13:49:20+00:00

Dissatisfaction results when reality does not live up to our expectations.

Women have absurd expectations. And so does men.

MGTOW arises because men suppose women are not attracted to only the high valued men

WGTOW arises because women are attracted to only the high valued men

Red__Blue · 2020-02-11T18:59:42+00:00

They’re taught to be very entitled.

Eastuss · 2020-02-11T10:37:04+00:00

That's just their natural incentives. They're greedy but they can't satisfy that greed, they'd rather shut it all down than deal with compromises.

It's just like gay, asexuals, or incels, they're broken and unfit for survival of the fittest, eventually only the compromising females are going to transfer their genes and things will balance.

Title	WGTOW: Why are so many women dissatisfied with men?
Author	_Neon_Shadow_
Upvotes	14
Comments	349
Date	February 11, 2020 10:28 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	/r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wgtow-why-are-so-many-women-dissatisfied-with-men.332586 https://theredarchive.com/post/332586
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/f26jhl/wgtow_why_are_so_many_women_dissatisfied_with_men/