What do you believe are the underlying reasons behind the issues men face when dating? How can they be addressed by society as a whole?

billieshakes11 · 2022-10-04T15:49:51+00:00

Most factors people point to about their woes in dating aren’t ones I think society has any ability nor obligation to fix.

However, I think one factor that does play a role, and is a broader societal problem, is that the atomization of society and our current culture has resulted in a withering of community structures, and also significant portions of children and youth being badly under-socialized at critical times in their development, or only socialized in negative, highly artificial, overly structured or insufficiently supported contexts.

This doesn’t affect everyone equally, obviously. But the more people you have entering adulthood without a stable, defined community in which to establish themselves and meet people, and also lacking the depth of skills they need to navigate relationships with others (especially the opposite sex), the more people are coming into the dating market totally unprepared for it.

As an example: whenever a young man posts on a dating advice forum with words to the extent that he has no idea how to talk to women, which is extremely common, I think something has failed him much earlier in his development and it usually wasn’t his fault. It is usually due to some gap in community and social structures in which he was able to fall through.

Siukslinis_acc · 2022-10-04T17:45:17+00:00

Lack of social skills. We need to bring irl communities back (like neighbourhood communities), through them people improve their social skills and also gain warm approach points with the members of the community.

gymbro7181 · 2022-10-04T16:52:34+00:00

Here are the 3 big ones:

Self esteem/value - contrary to popular belief value is not how much money you make, your station in life, your status, etc. Your self worth and value is completely dependent on how you view yourself. Self esteem is influenced at an early age and usually of you had highly critical parents or parents who themselves lacked self esteem, you could easily internalize those as you being worthless. But this is just a misinterpretation of those early childhood events. Children are naturally narcissistic and they make everything about themselves, so when mistreated it becomes very easy to internalize that you are being mistreated by your parents because you are worthless.

But worthiness has nothing to do with your circumstances or external events. It is something completely internal. So boys need to learn to like themselves or at least become the type of people that they like. By developing y qualities they admire and respect in others, they will start liking themselves more and more.

High self esteem become high self confidence. Because if you like yourself, you will assume other people like you too. And if they don't, that's okay too, because you like yourself first and foremost.

Fear. Fear is probably the really big one. Most guys these days spend way too much time in the nursery, feel safe and cozy and not taking risks. They play video games, smoke weed and jerk off to porn. It's all an anxiety avoidance thing. If you don't take any risks you don't risk rejection. You also don't risk success either. You just get nothing. The only way to overcome fear is to challenge yourself and do the things you avoid. The lack of fear or boldness is a huge turn on for women. It's ingrained in them since caveman days. Women hung out with and fucked warriors, hunters, explorers, not the cave boys who sat in the cave and played wjth sticks and stones and drew boobs ok the cave walls.

Virtually every male on this sub is terrified of talking to women. Terrified of rejection. Terrified of everything. Many are social recluses. Shy. Etc. These are all fear based behaviors. And they are deeply unattractive.

Most of the fear that men experience is actually caused by being attached to the outcome. Of having to have a specific outcome and what not getting it means about them. When you care about the outcome, that raises the stakes and you become more cautious, risk averse, and boring. You suppress yourself self confidence because you are afraid of pushing off the woman. But that makes you a lame nice guy. The guys who are bold and take risks and blurt stuff out are the ones that always end up with the girl, because they have the confidence to be themselves without fear that it may not get them the outcome they want.

Understanding emotional tension. This one is a biggie. Women deeply desire emotional tension from men. Being uncertain, having mystery, having anticipation. Most nice guys kill emotional tension right away because it gives them anxiety. They either never say anything that's polarizing, never stand up to a woman or reveal that they like her right away killing all tension. Again, killing tension comes from the fear and anxiety that if you let a woman wonder about you, she will get pissed of or lose interest. But the contrary is true. Women can't stop thinking about the guys who provide them with emotional tension. The guy who is nice and romantic to her but then doesn't call her for a few days. The guy who is not kissing her ass and is teasing her and who she should be and at, is the guy she can't stop fantasizing about.

Introducing emotional tension means you have to be a bit of a bad boy. Have a bit of an edge. Be mischievous. Which is the polar opposite of every nice guy ever.

These are the big 3. A guy who resolves all of them will be unstoppable with women. They will simply be everywhere giving him signals to approach. He guy who doesn't resolve them, will spend the rest of his time on this sub.

Stop_Maximum · 2022-10-04T16:16:21+00:00

I don’t think there’s a way to fix dating issue for men or even women. Not all men or women struggle with dating. Some people do, others don’t. If you do, you can run a diagnostic to understand the problem, if you find it then fix it. If there’s no problem, then there you go. Someone said it before, dating is an open market but not necessarily you’ll be “bought” or “buying”. If it doesn’t work, direct your energy somewhere else simple.

Patrickstarho · 2022-10-04T22:19:58+00:00

I think it’s social media. Like me being a man, reading about other men having a lot of sex makes me feel less of a man.

Like being hella horny and having no woman sucks. I don’t think women would ever understand the pain of it. Like how much of a mental blocker it is, how much it interferes with your day, how it keeps you up at night. Feeling like your a lesser of a human.

Getting super excited that someone liked you on a dating app only to find out they are trans or they are just trying to get you to subscribe to their onlyfans.

Sure you can build yourself up, learn new skills, make more money and get fit but these things take years. I’m horny right now so much so that I cannot think straight.

I watch a movie to get my mind off it and there’s beautiful women in the movie, I can’t escape this. Every tv show has a love arc, there’s so much sex in modern media, commercials. You cannot escape.

y2kjanelle · 2022-10-04T16:12:46+00:00

Simply stop lying to men, we've been lied to our entire lives with bullshit like "peoples will love you for who you are" and "physical appearence is overrated", this create simps and lonely mens that end up focusing in the wrong thing.

Imagine 20 years wasted.

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2022-10-04T16:22:57+00:00

The issue is women don't need men anymore. There is nothing that we can do to solve it. Unless you want to make women dependent on men again. So I don't think that's an issue to begin with.

Or you could to change nature. As female mate choice will always be quality over quantity. Selecting the best. Unnfortutnely that is impossible.

Males compete for sexual access to females and most fail. Zebras do it, Lions do it, and suprise suprise! So do humans.

I also think there is a cultural factor at play. Women used to grow up playing house. With a dream to have a great husband and a happy family. Women's goals just aren't like that anymore. Nowadays, most women dream to be a boss bitch.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-10-05T03:03:28+00:00

The biggest and most overlooked factor here when it comes to men’s dating woes has nothing to do with women or men being horrible people. It has to do with the dissolution of communities and a resulting lack of proper social development and meaningful social interaction. This affects women, too, but men especially. You can make more connections in one night than you could in a whole month or even year in the recent past, but if all those connections are impersonal, it usually doesn’t matter. Just like you can apply to 100 jobs on a job site and maybe hear back from one, because most employers are still just going to hire someone who knows somebody. One meaningful connection > many impersonal ones.

darkvalleys · 2022-10-04T16:41:56+00:00

Wealth inequality is probably the only thing we can address. The rest is due to biology

Unless you want to go back to coercion

prizefighterstudent · 2022-10-04T18:56:57+00:00

Social media
Car culture in the West

The second plays into community structures which have disintegrated over the past several decades, as well as the erasure of the "third place" (work, social clubs, church, etc.).

Social media has been a net negative for society as a whole, at least a majority of the apps. Older cats shoot back by saying "it helps me connect with friends and family". Bullshit -- start a Whatsapp group or give them a phone call.

Social media really only benefits the really good-looking, the really wealthy, and the really resourceful / intelligent. For the vast majority of people, it's a time sink at best and a one-way ticket to self-hate and atomization at worst.

2022-10-04T15:43:54+00:00

I think women want a guy they are attracted to but that doesn’t mean he has to be male model level looks and it varies from woman to woman what she likes. Women probably want a guy who’s smart and has some zest for life but hen I’m a man and I want the same from a woman.

Honestly when I see women moaning about men they date it’s usually really shitty behaviour like being completely unreliable, lying about their circumstances and availability, having seriously bad habits or addictions. Quite a few seem to be just out for what they can get sexually and just pretend to be whatever it is they think the woman wants to get laid.

I think a lot of men round here sound like they have an attitude and a lot of resentment and that probably comes through when they talk to women. I really can’t relate to the views I see around here my wife is amazing and so are most of the women I know, and so are most of the men I know.

Society has problems that effect most people lack of opportunities, inequality etc but for men I see a lot of entitlement and I think that comes from expecting life to just fall into place for you without you having to do much a decent paid job, a girlfriend then wife, a car, a home and so on. Perhaps in the past those things were easier for men but none of that stuff lands on anyones lap these days. Perhaps we should be more honest with kids that life is hard and and quite often dreams don’t come true?

I think the op is too reductive to typical ppd talking points, it’s just a negotiation between two people until you find the right fit, I dated girls before I met my wife and they were great but they just didn’t have that special connection I found with my wife and vice versa.

There is too much focus in make dating advice on protaying an image. You’ve got to be comfortable in your own skin, at ease without becoming a slob and without becoming too closed off.

Gravel_Roads · 2022-10-04T17:55:07+00:00

I feel like modern man is something that is still being figured out.

There’s a lot more flexibility (Ie men can be compassionate, they can be nurses and teachers, they can be pacifists and vegans - these things literally used to get you roundly mocked for even like… 10 years ago.) But the trade-off is there’s no longer one single “John Wayne” template anymore for what a man “should” look like. And a lot of people really rely those templates.

Some dudes have a specific blend of social savvy and grit that allows them to take on this diverse field and make more of themselves than they used to (I’m a shelter counselor, and even I was impressed to find out how many men have come into social work! They’re all kind, compassionate selfless people who are tough as nails who see some DARK shit and still laugh at the end of the day.)

While only one example, this isn’t a “trope” that’s ever existed before. It seems the less men focus on trying to “be a MAN” and more on “be a unique PERSON”, the better they can navigate this new world, as (like it or not) modern society tends to focus more on the individual.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2022-10-05T01:51:28+00:00

It can't. Dating is supposed to be exclusive. If you are struggling as a guy you only have 4 options

Improve yourself (physically,socially and financially) until you get the results you want

2.Move to a new location that favors someone who looks like you

3.Lower your standards and accept whatever you can get.

Remove yourself from the dating market and focus on other things in life.

gastongang · 2022-10-04T16:39:42+00:00

- men failed by the education system and struggling in the workforce

- not raised to be men by strong father figures, not taught things they were supposed to be taught

-lack of trials, tribulations, and rights of passage into manhood

-anti-masculinity culture that frowns upon men exhibiting masculine traits

- lack of support for men who are struggling

basically dudes these days are struggling in a lot of ways, and women don't wanna date someone who is struggling they want someone who is up

just read up on the mythopoetic men's movement as a well to help guide young men into reclaiming their masculine energy

Oli_love90 · 2022-10-04T16:54:39+00:00

This is still pivoting to “women’s fault” and I think as soon as you place the main reasons as “I guess women are this because I think they want this” you’re not being fair to the full picture. The main reason can’t always be the fault of women: women have higher standards therefore I can’t find a date or women are less horny than men so they don’t find me hot, women have jobs now so they don’t need us!

We’re a lot more isolated/less community oriented as a society, we work more sometimes in isolation, we socialize online, the world is unstable and weird, people feel uncertain sometimes depressed. People are a lot less open, seemingly a bit more mean. In this type of environment some people especially those who are introverted or socially awkward have very few ways to actually meet someone and even less inspiration to do so. Add to that, the newer ways of meeting like dating apps don’t work for some people because it just doesn’t come natural. Dating can’t thrive as readily in situations like this.

shadowofdoubt13 · 2022-10-04T18:03:36+00:00

Lack of social skills, lack of confidence, obsessed with getting sex from women, carrying themselves like they have low value

2022-10-04T20:07:03+00:00

toxic masculinty.

men are socialized into values that hurt both men and women.

men will never be happy and they'll be taught to use and exploit women (or worse) which is obviuosly harmful for women.

resultsmatter1 · 2022-10-04T23:15:08+00:00

The underlying issues are that for the better part of 30 years men have been told being man bad. Women have been pushed forward in education and in the professional workplace. They get into and graduate college at higher rates than men. Things men were taught about womens preferences were mostly a total lie. Merge this with the rise of dating apps, body positivity, and the normalized and accepted misandry at levels at least equal to classic misogyny.

The best part about all? They'll never get address because nobody. fucking. cares. The truth is nobody wants equality or a level playfield. Everyone wants an advantage.

As Chris Rock said, only women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally.

GridReXX · 2022-10-05T00:29:16+00:00

I think the answer is simple.

It’s biology creating the male/female dating skews.

Generally speaking, the female libido is typically less spontaneous, less compulsory, and slower-to-arousal compared to the typical male libido.

This could be the Y chromosome resulting in hormonal differentials between men and women — men produce 20x more testosterone than women, for example.

99% of the issues men face wrt the OP title flow from these realities.

The libido differences lead to the heterosexual dating dynamics favoring women — power of being the sex with the less compulsory libido.
And the cognition and behavioral differences that come from the differences between estrogen and testosterone lead to the common interpersonal disconnects between men and women.

Plopolok · 2022-10-05T00:41:43+00:00

The main reason that makes the dating market so broken is preselection. Women instinctively create a situation in which few men get all the pussies. That's what they're comfortable with.

prettymuchredpilled · 2022-10-05T02:49:43+00:00

Porn, addictions, social media, institutional decline, economic decline, and online dating all work in tandem to hinder men from connecting with women in real ways.

asdf333aza · 2022-10-05T10:19:07+00:00

Women depending over government aid in the form of welfare, alimony, debt, child support and student loans. They basically marry the government, so there is no need for them to marry or be dependent on men. She can divorce or leave you or take the kids and Blah blah blah. She can basically do next to anything she wants to the male in the relationship and her real husband (the government) will likely support her as they use relationships to transfer money from men to women. As they get paid in the process. States get money from the government for enforcing child support. Women are also more likely to spend money than men, so the government has an invested interest in taking money from men and giving it to women.

asdf333aza · 2022-10-05T10:19:16+00:00

And then you have social media. Social media is to women, what porn is to men. Men get that easy sexual gratification that lessens real appreciation for the actual thing. Women get attention from tons of men online for the bar minimum, which lessens the value of real life attention from actual men.

risdeveau · 2022-10-04T15:43:50+00:00

Either you like modern western society or you don’t

The other options have been tried, and you can judge the results for yourself

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-10-04T16:49:17+00:00

Dudes spend too much time looking at screens and not enough time actually socializing. That’s most of it. The more you socialize the more you learn how to be around people. You learn, you fail you have good days and bad days. You start feeling for people, wanting them to be around. Feeling Appreciation for them helping when they do, helping them cause you want to. Living life. Then going into hard mode by staring to try talking and dating girls.

All the rest is bullshit. If you can’t be social, be a friend, be a boyfriend because you spend more hours on a screen than with people IRL, you are always going to struggle.

platinirisms · 2022-10-04T17:39:44+00:00

If you believe the issue is that women only date (insert man here)

Why is it that way

Because they’re the type of men women find attractive.

If he has to be rich, why

More resource means higher chance of a comfortable life and higher chance of having a healthy and successful offspring

Has to be handsome

It’s theorised that some facial features are signs of a healthy childhood and healthy genes. All animals are seen as more attractive when they have facial symmetry.

Specific bone structure

Taller bones translates to being faster and stronger than people with shorter bones. Wider bones generally means stronger.

has to be alpha, confident, charismatic

A strong confident aggressive personality means a greater ability to get what he wants in life, which benefits him and who he dates.

Deep voice

Sign of high testosterone which is highly beneficial for men.

Muscular

Strong men can protect her against predators and other men

psd5 · 2022-10-04T20:10:37+00:00

if so many women are taking this speech of " men are not entitled to sex, intimacy, relationships or love" from women, so then why is there so much social stigma in western culture against MGTOW? Aka, men go their own way. Either forced or voluntary celibate with women.

Since women themselves are the ones that give no chance to males to reproduce, have intimacy, feeling loved or desired, then I don't get why are the same and most of women that claim this is a "misogynistic" movement if that's the only realistic chance males have.

Sad_Top1743 · 2022-10-04T16:26:13+00:00

Biological and environmental/cultural factors. Mostly it’s nature though, women can’t help but desire the best, unfortunately very few men can meet this criteria so you have a small number of guys with a plethora of options.

There isn’t a problem unless you believe western educated populations need to continue to propagate.

cuckspace · 2022-10-05T00:12:25+00:00

If men had a lower libido they would stop trying to date women.

Den_the_God-King · 2022-10-05T04:46:02+00:00

Women have insanely easy lives caused by desperate men making it very easy for them. Possibly caused by the differences in IQ distributions, generally women are either kinda smart or kinda dumb, meanwhile men’s distributions are more extreme. I encourage other men to have standards and learn to be happy alone first, however half the men out there will absolutely bend over backwards for a chance to get laid, they are enablers of women’s bad behaviours and underdeveloped traits, women can live without ever suffering, sheltered from accountability and without ever having to develop self-awareness.

TheGoldenChampion · 2022-10-04T15:45:39+00:00

I think the main issues are women having higher standards, the commodification of dating, and hypergamy. I don't just blame women for these issues however.

The progressive movement which has occurred in recent years is a cause. Women are now able to support themselves, and don't need to rely on men. Sex is no longer something which is frowned upon outside of just reproducing.

That being said, I am a progressive and a feminist, and I don't think stripping women of their rights is a solution. But hook up culture/hypergamy, and increasing rates of male virginity, rejection, and loneliness are real, and are issues which must be addressed.

I think monogamy and marriage need to be maintained as the ideal. Studies have shown that lower previous partner counts lead to happier relationships, lower divorce rates, and higher partner satisfaction. On a social level, hook up culture needs to be done away with. Relationships should be taken more seriously, and then maybe partners will be chosen more seriously, with considerations outside of appearance being taken into account.

On a policy level, I am a socialist, so I do of course think capitalism is an issue here. The commodification of dating, love, and relationships is of course caused by it. But ignoring that solution, I will stick to more realistic policies for the US.

-Subsidized housing for newly married couples would be great. A policy implemented by Gaddafi that was loved in Libya. It would encourage marriage by offsetting the financial cost.

-Free or cheap college education would be great for getting people on a even playing field regarding jobs and education, as well as offering an opportunity for social interactions for those who might not otherwise have it.

-Criminalize adulatory. Most cases would probably lack evidence, but it might as well be criminalized.

gofigure62 · 2022-10-04T17:42:43+00:00

Most men have no social skills, no emotional intelligence, and are pornafied. A majority of them don't like or respect women, they just want to have sex with women, thus there's a natural resentment towards women for not being easily accessible and available to the men that believe sexual access to women is owed to them.

Often when an opportunity is presented to men, they fuck it up with their incompetence. Typically by being overly sexual too soon, belittling, dismissive, and/or simply having no social development of any kind.

For example. Last week week I went on a date with a guy that was shorter than me. He was about 5'3 or 5'4. I love wearing boots and heels, on the date I towered over him and he kept making complaints about my shoes. I initiated all of the conversation, all of the flirting, and all of the physical contact. We played a few rounds of games and had a few rounds of drinks. When I offered to pay for the 3rd round he accused me of "trying to write him off already". He tried to drag out the date longer, knowing that I had something else to do. At the end of the date he awkwardly stood there, so I gave him a hug and he complained about only getting a "hug" despite initiating nothing. He insulted my shoes, failed to reciprocate initiative on the date, took my offer to pay as sign of rejection, disrespected my time/obligations, and complained about my hug despite failing to initiate or ask for anything else in an appealing way.

He was a handsome, educated man, with hobbies, friends, a great career, and what I thought was a decent personality. But in actuality he was a whiny, entitled, annoying little shit.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-10-04T17:12:02+00:00

The point is that it is still unclear what is happening in dating and gender relations. There are some significant trends, but how confined are they to given demographics? Will things revert on their own?

I completely disagree with the idea that these are purely individual issues that society has no interest in regulating or managing. This kind of thinking is another example of individualist Liberal Enlightenment thinking going too far. All healthy societies regulate sexuality, marriage and family creation. You have to--it is too important to just let 'what happens happen'.

That said, the scale and complexity of today's society is unprecedented. It is very dangerous and difficult to try to micromanage people's lives with top-down edicts: you often get very unanticipated secondary effects. We also lack many of the tools our ancestors had for regulating individual behavior. Religion is dying and 'society' is fragmented, having nowhere near the influence or even coercive power it used to, except when used as a total bludgeon as we see in cancel culture. But it lacks nuance and calibration.

So for now, I think we are in wait and see mode. I do think women dissemble and avoid a lot when it comes to big-picture talk about these issues. But I think this is a manifestation of a deep feeling of theirs that is screaming: 'Wait! We were just freed, from reproduction to economic dependence. We are just getting independence. We barely know ourselves in this new context, much less what we want from men and sexuality and relationships. We are trying a lot of things. Making mistakes but also learning. So we just need to wait.'

mistressusa · 2022-10-04T19:54:37+00:00

"whenever I’m on another anonymous app, if the post even slightly hints that I’m a female, I’m immediately sent an unreasonable amount of dick pics."

Men, has the "dick pics strategy" helped you get into relationships with women? This is definitely new for this generation. Back in the day, you'd have to send your dick pic through the USPS. Lmao but I think that's actually a federal crime?

KikiYuyu · 2022-10-04T20:05:16+00:00

A mix of many things:

Men and women generally have different wants and needs. For example, a man would be more likely on average to enjoy an unsolicited nude than a woman.

The current political climate is all about pushing collective blame onto people, which includes all men.

Men also are viewed as "having it all" and and being at the top of the social food-chain, so their struggles are dismissed and passed over.

It's easier to be more selective.

Beauty standards and fads are as stupid as ever.

More men are falling into misogynist ideologies, making them less desirable.

toasterchild · 2022-10-04T20:12:41+00:00

The biggest issue is spending too much time online and not enough time in person. When they get in person they don't know what to do.

mightymorphinnyla · 2022-10-04T20:48:31+00:00

Men aren’t allowed to view themselves as desirable. If men start to view themselves as desirable and act as such, a lot of the nonsense that comes with dating women go away, because it flips the script a little bit.

neetykeeno · 2022-10-04T21:33:59+00:00

The underlying issue is that it is competitive, the results of the competition are pretty damn clear to everyone in your social scene if you get scraps while another guy feasts...and we don't teach boys how to deal with that dynamic any more. Girls instinctively teach each other quite brutally around age eleven to age fourteen that you don't always win, somehow guys don't do that.

We can't stop it being a competition. We need to teach how to lose, pick yourself up and still do the best you can without falling apart.

There will always be losers.

igotthechinesevirus · 2022-10-04T23:59:35+00:00

Underlying reasons: Not having enough value as a mate, which can be many things, but mainly not been successful enough, im pretty sure that this would solve most guys problems. So, go on and study, online, public college, whatever, then a master's degree, keep studying and taking courses, take a CELTA and teach English, if you don't have time to work out at least try to maintain a human shape form, and if you still struggle move to Vietnam or Thailand, hey why not? that's my plan anyway.

How to solve it: In my opinion giving a quality public education and an easier access to higher education to a bigger part of the population, as well as other means for people to be successful.

GGMcThroway · 2022-10-05T02:33:11+00:00

Poor socialization and early childhood trauma.

Most men do fine. The ones that don't generally don't for a reason (such as being unpleasant to talk to right from the get go).

hdksndiisn · 2022-10-05T02:37:17+00:00

There are no issues beyond overpopulation and a society with declining virtues, where every man is taught to be a Casanova & every woman a Cleopatra you’re gonna end up with a bunch of empty spectacle-consuming aesthetes who value money & sex - the individual pleasure principle - over community & advancement.

The issue isn’t either genders preferences it’s society’s marketed echo chamber. Each human a memetic virus spreading the beliefs they are sold like the common cold, and taking it in stride.

What should happen is a revolution.

Maybe. Or nothing is wrong and nothing is going to happen except what always does: the wealthy & attractive will win over the poor & ugly, who will remain their unspoken servants (be that via jobs performed or beliefs had).

?

I don’t think anyone can answer this question honestly. The problem is Dividing people and compartmentalizing problems into tiny subsections when the collective is more important. The problem is most people don’t have the capacity to think beyond what they are presented as True & Right.

PeaAffectionate5667 · 2022-10-05T03:21:48+00:00

1 - Teach courtship etiquettes & skill in schools as part of sex ed. All we learnt about was “avoid pregnancy, wrap it up”.

2 - Legalize prostitution & subject it to a lot of safety optimization regulations.

SuspiciousMaximum856 · 2022-10-06T03:28:17+00:00

Why do you think men having trouble dating is a societal issue instead of a personal problem?

RearwindowPinecone · 2022-10-04T15:25:08+00:00

first things first men have to understand they are NOT entitled to anything, dating market is a free market

my 2 cents

bunnakay · 2022-10-04T15:32:02+00:00

Well for starters...men thinking society needs to fix their dating issues.

baresquad · 2022-10-04T15:49:50+00:00

It’s not society’s responsibility to address our individual dating issues.

daddysgotanew · 2022-10-04T20:38:00+00:00

Women’s standards are just unrealistic as a whole. A white man who is 6 foot even, college educated with even just a state school degree, makes 6 figures, has a full head of hair and straight white teeth, and isn’t addicted to some type of substance is far less than 1 percent of the male population. Once you get into what he looks like and what his personality type is and so on you can narrow it down even further. Basically you have a society where 85 percent of women want the top 1 percent of men. And I’d argue that women don’t even see most top 1 percenters, because they just look like regular dudes. What they’d REALLY want are celebrities, which is just nuts because then you’re dealing with the top 0.00000001 percent of men.

It’s just a wholly unrealistic scenario where no one ends up happy because no one really knows what the math is. It’s either settle or die alone but every woman thinks she’s going to meet some rich, magazine-cover-handsome model when she’s 28. Not gonna happen.

Altruistic_Sky_4673 · 2022-10-04T22:39:11+00:00

Many men need to realise that if they want a partner they need to bring something to the table.

You need to up your game in everything (looks, money, social status, social skills, etc).

NegotiationNo717 · 2022-10-05T00:39:03+00:00

The ones who’s are alone, not by choice, simply have nothing to offer anyone. They haven’t accepted this though. There’ll whine about women and height and status and money, but why exactly should a woman want a relationship with one of them? What is she getting out of it? Especially with them essentially demanding slavery. How does it enhance her life. All any of them can say is she’ll die with cats if not. Take out the financial need and give women a choice and you’ll find the truth…a lot of men are simply not desirable and no no traits to make you desire sex or a relationship with them. So convinced of their own value though, they’re readily use a woman being single as an insult against her, but not against themselves.

They have nothing to offer. It’s that simple. Nothing that would make a woman want to fuck them. Nothing that would make someone happy to deal with them on a long term basis. Women took the “man’s role” out of the forced relationships, which was the money, and once you take that out, a good amount of them have absolutely nothing to offer.

NorthernTaste · 2022-10-04T15:32:46+00:00

Biology and entitlement

We’re doing plenty now

Better economic situation/less income inequality would help

Silver_Switch_3109 · 2022-10-04T17:29:40+00:00

Women have been taught to not need men but men haven’t been taught to not need women.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2022-10-04T15:29:22+00:00

What makes you think society needs to address it?

None of us are entitled to have a relationship or sex.

Barely-moral · 2022-10-04T15:56:23+00:00

The only way to solve the problem is to build an alternative/replacement for women that can provide for the needs of men while having no rights and no free will.

The underlying reason for the issues men fave is that women have free will and society (for now) believes they should have the right to use it.

The logical consequence of women having freedom is men not getting what they want from them. Nothing can be done about it.

abaxeron · 2022-10-05T09:42:31+00:00

What do you believe are the underlying reasons behind the issues men face when dating?

Hello, everyone. I see a lot of post here attributing men’s dating woes solely to “women being the absolute worst”.

Women don't love men. It doesn't make them "the absolute worst". If anything, if I was given the chance to shomehow tweak this fact, I wouldn't. Women love who they should love. Children.

Once we’ve identified the underlying cause for these issues (whether perceived or real), how can we as a society address them?

Women should not be forced to share spaces with people they don't love. Men should not be forced to share spaces with people who don't love them. Once we have enough environments where a man and a woman can go an entire year without a requirement to interact with the opposite sex (be it in colleges, at workplaces, in hospitals, or in gyms), the "fog of war" in our minds will clear up enough for a reasonable discussion.

DisasterPeace7 · 2022-10-04T15:32:52+00:00

Would it help if more women had a high of a libido as men?

Yep

throwaway164_3 · 2022-10-04T18:12:37+00:00

The underlying reasons are evolutionary biology and sexual selection.

There’s nothing society can do to change these issues, because it’s biological/innate preferences.

Men need to understand how reality works, and find contentment and satisfaction within the constraints of reality.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-10-04T19:16:32+00:00

Men are endlessly horny. That's the problem.

If men weren't so horny they wouldn't be so driven to mate with women. That would take a whole lot of pressure from male-female interactions.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2022-10-04T20:15:21+00:00

One reason that effects men is their lack of understanding of women and ability to see them as equal or fully fledge humans. One way society could fix that is through better representations of women in media, as agents, and positions of power and more modern art from a female perspective.

I could probably think of many more but that one is my main argument I'll die on a hill defending. I think men's lack of understanding of women is the issue and it's an issue caused by culture being too heavily biased toward the male perspective as default, and without a strong patriarchal society to lock women into monogamous relationships, it's paramount that men understand how to attract and maintain relationships with women on their own, physically and emotionally and not just financially.

ruboyuri · 2022-10-04T22:17:38+00:00

Libido disparity

Solved by porn, sex workers and casual sex

Hot_Law_7823 · 2022-10-05T01:05:48+00:00

The underlying reason is that men have only declined over time and on average, bring less to the table in long term partnerships than women

What carried mens standing within the relationship scene in the past was the fact that they were the only means of financial security for women since they weren’t allowed to do it on their own. Now that women have been granted the same access to these things as men, they aren’t as necessary.

And just to top it all off, the women who ARE still seeking that traditional lifestyle are now unable to find it since most modern men don’t make enough to support an entire household alone like past men did

There’s absolutely no reason for modern women to want to seek out modern men when most of them are pornsick, emotionally unavailable, and will ultimately be having us clean up after them and do a majority of the labor.

focusing on careers and education >>>>>

2022-10-05T16:13:40+00:00

most men just aren't enough to get women turned on. thats the reality. everything in this world is fake and gay except the love women have for true alpha males

basically its funny, because women will essentially just straight up behave like stereotypical "men" when it comes to going after men they want. Like sexually harassing, being vulgar, just straight up saying "let's fuck."

but apparently so many men never go through this that it becomes a "lie" when some men say it happens.

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Esterwinde · 2022-10-04T16:40:59+00:00

Tbh both sides villainise each other. But this sub has its merits on people debating on such things.

pyrotechnic-looter · 2022-10-05T12:22:02+00:00

Why? Because men are not exactly seeking a woman who is 4’8”, 320 lbs, with a face full of bad skin, somehow still flat chested, the voice of a bleating goat, zero potential for employability, the personality of wet cardboard, size 14 feet full of bunions, brown-grey crooked teeth, and a tail. Now maybe one or two fellas would actually LIKE to date a gal with an actual tail but they are talking about a pretensile monkey tail and this unfortunate lady had a full whisping broom of horse hair sort of tail….

What is even WITH such kind of unconscious biases!

Honestly the only place in the world where all the men seem convinced that all the women want/need guys to be rich and tall…. Is reddit. Sure. Some women say they want that. But most aren’t saying that or dating that in real life. Guys? Want to date women? Get the heck off here or dating sites and get out in the world. Half the “women” online aren’t even women.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-10-05T14:55:31+00:00

I think we need to put the "alpha" term to rest. It's been derided and ridiculed and perverted.

Women laugh at and misunderstand it. We'll need to agree on a word term to encapsulate a sexually desirable and sexually successful man that has mass sexual appeal to a majority of women.

Many women select for that kind of men for the hope for sexually satisfying encounters so that man is select.

hhhhhhikkmvjjhj · 2022-10-08T20:51:07+00:00

Economy and education. Men are still expected to be providers so we need a major uplift in boys and mens careers, income and education. It’s not more difficult than that. There is a bit of unwillingness to touch those topics as it’s considered cannibalizing the progress of women. Unless things change we will have a lot more radicalization because it’s only the far right who is concerned with the success of men.

Title	What do you believe are the underlying reasons behind the issues men face when dating? How can they be addressed by society as a whole?
Author	mightymorphinnyla
Upvotes	66
Comments	430
Date	October 4, 2022 1:44 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xvfiln/what_do_you_believe_are_the_underlying_reasons/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-do-you-believe-are-the-underlying-reasons.1135129 https://theredarchive.com/post/1135129