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What is the AWALT equivalent for Men, AMALT

May 24, 2018
5 upvotes

Red Pill says 'All Women Are Like That' in regards to the female sexual strategy/natural inclinations such as hypergamy. AWALT is basically a rejection of "the ONE" / description of female nature.

Even if you don't believe it's "all women" or think it's descriptions are exaggerated, what are the male equivalents?

In what ways are All Men Like That?

And for non-Redpillers, do you think that these equivalents are just as wrong as AWALT?

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[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue8 points9 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

Polygamous, inclined to preserve our freedom of choice above offering safety for our partners, and understands that relationships are meant to allow us to lower our efforts to maintain attraction under the pretense of focusing these efforts elsewhere, most often "nowhere".
/u/LewisCross --want the most sex with the most variety with as little effort as possible

We even have a parallel to the apparent conflict between serial monogamist's "branch swinging" / cheater or trashy girl's dual mating:

Either:

  • Is (strikes as, for women) averse to commitment because neglects the benefits that might come at expense of our freedom to fuck bitches; or
  • Will commit with the MAIN expectation of having easier sex, as if sex is owed.

Edit:
This is to make it sound as mean as AWALT sounds. And seems to apply as well as that, too, and I mean pretty well.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes. And I would add:

--want the most sex with the most variety with as little effort as possible

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

mmm. It was supposed to be under "polygamous" and the overall human likeliness to pick the path of least resistance, but it is worthy to clarify.

[–]Idunnowhy2[S] 0 points1 point  (25 children) | Copy Link

Is this always true? Generally true? Only some men?

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue1 point2 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Every woman feels like this because this is their nature, some women manage to overcome it to be better.

Its ill effects MIGHT be less apparent than AWALT's because we're not encouraged to live our natures, but being a straight white guy I might not be the best judge. The same logic I've made a few times here to say that generalizing awalt is rational works here too.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card8 points9 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, of course you agree with AMALT when you cherry pick the most innocuous examples.

This place is so predictable.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Terpers aren't gonna moralize AMALT the way some moralize AWALT.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Especially not if the examples are so benign.

When I said “all men have the capacity to be rapists” I got plenty of shit for that.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes, because they don't like when the shoe is on the other foot. Tbf, not ALL AWALT examples are as dramatic as "all men are capable of rape", but OTOH the examples of AMALT ITT are just not that negative, as opposed to your typical AWALT comment.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

All women marry beta bucks and wait for their first chance to branch swing is pretty dramatic. Lewis Cross has said more than once he thinks women marry for the express purpose of divorce rape. All women want to be abused and fuck sociopaths. All women will claim rape because they regret sex. It’s not like these things aren’t said regularly around here.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why are you arguing with me. All I said was not ALL awalt examples are that dramatic. The most routine ones are not, although they are still worse than most of the examples being provided as amalt ITT.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m not arguing with you. I’m giving examples of AWALT that are dramatic that I hear all the time from the same men now saying AMALT is “men want lots of sex with hot women and men avoid commitment because women stop having sex with them after marriage.”

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Congratulations on being the first person I ever saw to formulate this phrase in a way it's not wrong.
In fact, all men have capacity to be rapists... As all women have, as all children have the capacity for murder, as all dogs have the capacity to kill babies, as all butterflies have the capacity to enter innocent bystander's eyes.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

So then what are the negative examples of AMALT that aren’t AWALT? Or are negative AWALT examples routinely thrown around just as applicable to men as AMALT?

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I guess I talked to you about it. Basically when a RPiller says "AWALT" he means "this is to remind you that all women are capable of this sort of preposterous crap in relationships". Being more rigorous, as I have to be do define it, the concept derives from the ill consequences hypergamy brings to relationships, and a lot more if we define relationships as only the traditional christian ones.

So then what are the negative examples of AMALT that aren’t AWALT?

Similarly, AMALT should derive from the ill consequences polygamy brings. I drew a couple ugly ones.

Some ill consequences and behaviors I can point out:

  • The reasons your husband doesn't fuck other women are solely his fear of losing you and his fear of the consequences of failing to succeed on the approach;
  • Every time he feels he lost a lay (not the chance of one) because he's with you, it stings. If it happens enough, he will break, and this has a knack to be a low threshold;
  • He probably bitches to you whenever he feels he should be fucking around, chances are he doesn't know he's being a pain and if he knows he is, he doesn't know why he is.

The premises of our behavior are laid there. Be creative, make their CONSEQUENCES sound ugly and you'll probably be right. Just watch out not to add some additional premises that are feminist horseshit.

Or are negative AWALT examples routinely thrown around just as applicable to men as AMALT?

When it comes to the guilt avoidance we blame women of, men have just the same drives. And when we own some shit it is usually self commiseration, too.
The dreaded "feelz before realz" that sound so fucking adequate when we talk about women are human crap, too. Although we feel differently we'll also sabotage shit we want to destroy all the same. You see examples of this popping out all the time in askTRP and the alike, it's laughable when a guy says "trust your guts" and doesn't realize it's the same crap.

On the similar stuff, I should add on the sabotage bit, women are RIDICULOUSLY defensive. I can theorize on reasons but it might be that my observations are biased. Anyway that might make your version of "feelz before realz" way more deleterious to relationships than our "trust your guts", and relationships are the whole point here.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

None of that is some super negative generalization of “men” like the way terps use AWALT.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

All men have the capacity to rape because all men feel their penises entitle them to sex and “society” gives them this privilege.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is lame.
All men don't feel penises entitle them to sex. Nice guys do nice things to feel entitled to sex. Husbands do chore play. Overconfident dudes say its not going to suck itself. And so on.
If these men do these things to feel entitled to sex, then all men can not feel that penises entitle them to sex.

Women hysterically define all men as rapists to entitle them to feel threatened by men's existence. Women's needs for safety are known to be bigger and therefore the perceived threat women see is known to be bigger, but men also inherited some obsolete perceptions of threat from their ancestors, and we too define whole classes as "dangerous" to allow us to feel threatened. But at least we know that always come from stupidity and leads to disaster. It's time feminism learns to spot it, too.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This place is remarkably predictable. You were probably taught this difference in high school, so either recall or learn what are concepts,and what are hypotheses. Then, tell me, in which of those categories you're putting "AWALT" and "AMALT", and to which category they belong.

After this, when I'm sure that you either understand or can understand what evidence and "cherry picked examples" mean in these discussions, I'll gladly discuss both AWALT and AMALT as either hypotheses or concepts.

Otherwise, although these "discussions" eventually end up being of some service, it's simply to rare to make sense to try once more.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And when you learn how to construct a sentence using correct English and stop thinking shit like this makes you sound smart:

it's simply to rare to make sense to try once more.

The same logic I've made a few times here to say that generalizing awalt is rational works here too.

Then maybe we can talk about evidence — something you may have learned about in high school but clearly haven’t been able to demonstrate here.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Adding a ps before the body seems funny to do here: I do not intend to sound smart. I intend to prevent us both from feeling like we're the person playing chess with a pigeon. I failed that halfway already, and possibly full way.

Congrats for going grammar nazi. Thanks for pointing out the missing "o" in too.

You see, if you do not know what concepts are, you can not know what evidence means to them, and we would be discuss endlessly with you falsifying an hypothesis, but not the concept, or demanding me to falsify a concept with evidence, which is remarkably hard to do by itself, while most likely reserving yourself some beliefs that render it impossible to do.

I'm not being a prick. Both AMALT and AWALT are concepts and serviceable as such. As they are ideas, abstract by nature, evidences support them, but the way both concepts must be designed to make ANY sense to talk about "all", evidence to debunk them must be evidence of absence, something that is just too rare to find.

It took me too some time and some discussions to notice this concept versus hypothesis issue, and too much time and too many discussions to notice how it happens. So I will not risk it happening here, once more.

[–]Black_m0ngoose1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If men have the opportunity, they would all almost certainly engage in polygamous behavior.

Right now, it's a woman's world. Coincidentally, feminism will ultimately lead to polygamy. Meaning, women will become exploited and men will become the exploiters, rather than vice versa.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't know if I agree that a man's primary interest in a relationship is low effort sex. All 20+ year old men have been conditioned to expect sex to decrease when they get married, and yet they still do.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

mmmm.
I mean you have two male reactions towards commitment:

  • Averse to it because he knows it makes sex harder to get and will only commit if he sees potential to offer benefits besides that loss.
  • Sympathetic to it AS a way to reach more steady sex.

Your guys are simply on 1. But now that I look at it, I kind wrote it in a way that can't be rendered wrong, that thing is stated as "If (A) or (not A), then true." A no brainer that adds no info at all and is always true.
So it's not really a parallel to what we say about dual mating and branch swinging. Shame on me.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

men are less predictable and generalizable than women due to higher variation in traits like IQ/aggression/willpower/"alpha-ness" etc (the higher he is in these traits, the less predictable) though there are some patterns you can make. all men:

  • prefer fit women over excessively fat/skinny women (0.7 waist to hip ratio is king);

  • prefer symmetrical faces;

  • prefer clear skins;

  • prefer agreeable women;

  • are down to fuck most of the time;

  • would enjoy being polygamous if they had the chance

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Why or in what way does higher IQ/aggression/willpower/alpha make him less predictable?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

low iq: incapable of understanding complexity and setting a long term plan for life, will just follow what most people are doing

low aggression: too weak/passive to challenge any social norms

low willpower: slave to evolutionary weaknesses, will predictably do what his unevolved monkey brain tells him to do (eat a lot, get in debt, waste all his time on cheap entertainment)

[–]LowCredditRead the sidecar10 points11 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

All men are attracted to women who show the ability to bear healthy children. Bonus points for being able to have lots and raise them. This means they are attracted to women with larger breasts, wider hips, symmetrical features, healthy amount of fat, youth, and stability.

They like to have their egos stroked even more than their dicks. They need help with the details of life since they are usually focusing outwards. You have to sex them regularly or they get depressed and stop working as efficiently for you and might stray. They like to feel like the head even though you are the neck. They are promiscuous so you have to keep the flies away. The way to a man's heart is through his stomach, so keep him fat and happy.

The list probably goes on with more of what is common sense.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

All men are attracted to women who show the ability to bear healthy children.

This is true.

This means they are attracted to women with larger breasts, wider hips, symmetrical features, healthy amount of fat, youth, and stability.

First two: Not really, we're not so good at this association on a primal level. Shit's more cultural.

Symmetrical features, youth: Absolutes.

Healthy amount of fat: To me it makes sense that we are observant of it, but "healthy" seems to be largely environmental. Excesses are associated with both wealth and inability to resist temptation, weakness.

We want health, but we're not quite unanimous on how to spot it.

[–]LowCredditRead the sidecar2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Larger breasts to a point. You need them to breast feed. DD's over C's is more open to interpretation. Wider hips are crucial. The head circumference of human babies is huge and requires the space to push them out.

There is an optimal amount of fat for each gender. For men it is 12%. I don't remember women's, but I am pretty sure it was 18%. Maybe higher. Cultural preferences will float around the healthy areas, but there are limits on both ends.

[–]storffish5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

high school health 101: breast size has no relation to ability to breast feed. tits are mostly fat, the functional part (mammary glands) are pretty small. there's no real purpose to tit fat other than being attractive.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Larger breasts to a point.

I can picture a few MODERN environments that would favor smaller breasts. But if you're thinking about environments with scarcity, larger breasts are just dead weight, she just needs breasts.
We have no way to have evolved an association between larger breasts and increased capacity to produce milk.

There is an optimal amount of fat for each gender.

Those numbers look good (that woman is ripped, that guy not quite, by the way). But is the sort of shit that we associate with health through a cultural definition, too. 18% women look skinny but might run, 25% women look hotter than 18% these days and closer to the actresses, but the sports crowd prefers the 18% with smaller breasts.
It seems unlikely that we have evolved an ideal notion of bf, and even more unlikely that it is not "fat to survive for longer", if we did. Same goes for sun tan and this sort of stuff.

[–]LowCredditRead the sidecar1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

When I am talking about larger breasts, I am talking B+. I am sure there is a size where milk production falls off if smaller. Also, the vast majority of men like larger breasts holding all else equal. This is the spirit of AWALT and AMALT.

As I said, I can't remember the women's number. I wouldn't be surprised by 20+%. Women need a lot more fat than men do. The 12% for men was pulled from a study. It showed that 10% to 15% was the zone, and 12% is the sweet spot. I hear men say that under 10% works better for them, but I like studies better than anecdotes.

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah iirc breast size does not correlate to milk production. But your right about women needing a minimum fat level to produce milk (and menstruate). I think women can go as low as 12% in extreme situations, like body building or desert starvation scenarios. But reproducing would be very difficult below 15%. And I think like 18-20%+ is okay until you start entering into obese territory.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet so many high SMP men are with flat chested skinny women. Why is that?

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Is it true about ALL men?

[–]LowCredditRead the sidecar1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

In the same way as AWALT. AWALT is about the 99%. It considers the majority and ignores edge cases.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I noticed you started with ALL, so edited my response.

Do you think a Blue-piller would agree with this being true for the 99%?

[–]LowCredditRead the sidecar0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think overall yes. I am sure most would pick at something in that list. The second set would certainly be more open to interpretation than the first.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So why do so many bloops here disagree with awalt so pationatly? Are they outliers here?

[–]xtsvSlav subhuman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Tbh I'm a lot more attracted to women that are slim than thicc. I prefer petite, innocent looking females as they seem to be much better candidates for an LTR and less likely to cheat on me.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Looool what?

[–]hating-life 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

keep him fat and happy The guy will just have low self esteem from being fat.

[–]LowCredditRead the sidecar6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I have never met a married fat man with low self esteem from being fat. As much as women look in the mirror and see every flaw, men look in the mirror and see every virtue. Low self esteem from weight comes when you can't get a woman.

[–]hating-life 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Umm if a wife is hot and slim and the man is fat, he will probably be insecure.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah.

[–]LowCredditRead the sidecar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know lots of fat, happy husbands. Their wives are usually heavy too, but not always.

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All men want to fuck an endless string of random young hot girls.

We just don't act on it, mostly because nobody is offering to let us.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

AMALT is something that every woman should automatically have internalized by the time she's in her 20s.

All men are shallow. He will not love you for what's inside unless the outside looks nice too.

All men want sex (duh), preferably with a variety of partners. Even the most moral men will do and say pretty much anything to get an attractive woman in the sack, including outright lying about how much they like her and whether or not they want a relationship.

All men want love, but they will only give commitment to their most high value option. If a man does not perceive you to be his best option, he'll still use you for sex and emotional support, but he'll put in the bare minimum. If he does perceive you as his best option, he'll do anything to lock you down. Don't waste time with men who are "meh" about you unless you're completely on the same page.

All men have an ego. All men want to feel strong and important, regardless of their actual achivements. But also all men have flaws and want to know that as much as you admire his good traits, you also see him for what he is and accept him despite his weakness.

All men will look at other women, there's nothing to be done about that. Many men will cheat if they can get away with it scot free, or if they can rationalize it as "not really cheating," and you can't really know who those men are until they do it. How a woman decides to deal with that is up to her, but generally I think that fretting and acting jealous is counterproductive.

All of this is just stuff that I've learned from my, my friends,' and my relatives' experiences. It's neither good nor bad, just things that women should keep in mind if they don't want to be thrown for a loop. I'm fine with AWALT as long as guys are realistic about it, but I think that a lot of the things that redpillers accuse "all" women of doing are quite exaggerated.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Are women equally as shallow? Do women not only give commitment to their most high value option?

How are these different between men & women?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I’ll let u in on a secret: Men do a lot of “awalt” things

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Such as?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Well, the stuff you mentioned for a start. Shallowness, branch swinging, hypergamy, loving women for what they can do for them, keeping orbiters/plates (using low status women who like them for sex, favors, and emotional support), lying and manipulating, cheating. Men are not angels, as anyone who has dated men can tell you.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I haven't dated any men and am well aware we are not angels.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

They absolutely are and do. Men care about different qualities than women, but they will always try to bag a woman who is better looking and/or higher social status than they are first, and will only go for their equals or lower if they can't manage that.

And men certainly do love women for the sex, cleaning, cooking, and child rearing services they provide, amongst other things. Just look on any thread here that asks men "what do you like most about your SO?" I'm not saying that both men and women don't also love their partners for their personalities and such, but men will leave their wives if they fail to uphold their side of the domestic bargain just like women will.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Women love men for WHAT they are. Men love women for how much they love them.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What does that even mean lol. Do you actually believe that no woman has ever had unrequited love for a man?

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20172 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The lies are the problem with men.

[–]BisquitBill 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Reality doesn't match /u/Jammerly1 expectations?

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know what you’re getting at?

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can't let whatever bullshit men toss out upset you though, it is not personal some of them believe their own bullshit. They want sex, the ones who can get it will say any fairytale, this is not a new development.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

probably a tendency to think with their dick and make stupid decisions because of that. doing dangerous activites trying to impress girls, falling in love with strippers, catching oneitis for a waitress who smiled at you, shit like that.

[–]gasparddelanuit2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Using AMALT as a heuristic:

  • All men are polygamous or desire variety in women
  • All men are averse to commitment
  • All men see sex as the number one priority in relationships
  • All men are sexually attracted to attractive young women, regardless of their own age or relationship status
  • All men objectify women and their body parts
  • All men dislike pronounced emotional intimacy
  • All men lie to women about who they really are

This is not exhaustive, but it covers the main aspects of men when it comes to sexual strategy and represents the male companion version of AWALT.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What do you mean by all men lie to women about who they really are?

I don't know if I agree that men see sex as the #1 priority in relationships.

[–]gasparddelanuit0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by all men lie to women about who they really are?

It’s complicated because men often don’t know who or what they are, given how much society indoctrinates them. However, if you were to try and pin down the basis of a man’s attraction to a given woman or women, most men would admit that it is primarily sexual, if they were being honest and were aware of reality. Sexual intimacy is the main draw. Moreover, most men do not connect sex to love.

When I say that men lie about who they are, I mean that men pretend that sex is not the big draw to them that it really is and publicly virtue signal, in an exaggerated manner, about how much they value the other non-sexual qualities a woman or women may bring to the table. Men in the public eye, especially, fake this persona.

Most women could not handle the truth if a man was starkly honest or accurate about his real mind-set and men know this, so they go through all the romantic rituals and ego-stroking to give women the impression that they are special, when in reality most men don’t truly feel this way and would be very willing to hop into bed with a series of random, attractive, female strangers if it were permitted and viable. I don’t care who you are talking about, no normal man is above his biology, and has to suppress a great deal not to cave into it. He also often has to fabricate a more virtuous persona than is real.

I don't know if I agree that men see sex as the #1 priority in relationships.

To me, this is practically self-evident, but others have come to the same conclusion also, as seen in the clip below, from 8:33.

Allan Pease -'Why men want sex and women need love'

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I certainly understand the opinion that men primarily want women for sex, it's obviously an important factor. But I'd have to disagree with it being the most important.

Prostitutes are cheaper than wives. And offer all the things think men value most. But most men would prefer a wife (ignoring the current legal environment).

[–]gasparddelanuit0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I certainly understand the opinion that men primarily want women for sex, it's obviously an important factor. But I'd have to disagree with it being the most important.

Prostitutes are cheaper than wives. And offer all the things you think men value most. But most men would prefer a wife (ignoring the current legal environment).

Primarily wanting women for sex is the same as it being the most important factor, at least as far as a man’s personal happiness and wellbeing are concerned. If the sex ends, the relationship is no longer worth it to the man and is usually over. That should tell you something. The research I linked to does show that sex is the first priority for men. That does not mean it's the only benefit, just the most valued.

Men have wives because that is the culture that they are born into. It’s an established convention that people are enculturated into following and is part of the indoctrination I mentioned earlier. Many women require marriage to either have sex or continue having sex with them. Men often acquiesce if they want to continue having sex with a particular woman, as well as out of a sense of duty, compassion and guilt, because they don’t wish to be the cause of anyone’s suffering, particularly a woman who they have some sympathy for. Men with religious beliefs have the added sense of duty and guilt associated with their religion.

Society puts a lot of pressure on men to marry and favours married men over single men, so having a wife is not necessarily about the woman, as opposed to the other societal pressures, advantages and disadvantages of being married, overt and subtle. It’s not an entirely free and lucid decision that a man makes. A lot of ignorance, constraints, guilt, personal sacrifice and unwanted pressure go into that choice.

However, it’s not just about the fact of a wife. Further constraining factors involve all of the established expectations and conventions surrounding men’s obligations within marriage, such as fidelity to one woman for one’s lifetime or having to endure the cloying emotional intimacy that popular culture teaches women to demand. Men abide by these things because they don’t know any better and are generally ill-equipped to challenge the prevailing orthodoxies, despite their cognitive dissonance or feelings of aversion to these arrangements.

The male desire for sex requires none of the artificial props that hold up marriage.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I just think there is something else - I'm not sure what exactly - that is valued above sex.

Maybe the validation of someone that knows you intimately.

[–]gasparddelanuit0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I just think there is something else - I'm not sure what exactly - that is valued above sex.

Maybe the validation of someone that knows you intimately.

When I say sex, I mean sexual intimacy and all of the acts or hormonal responses that might accompany it, not just the mechanical event of penetration.

Validation is secondary to the actual experience of sexual intimacy, although in some aspect they are linked, since a woman freely providing sexual intimacy without payment is an endorsement of the man. So sexual intimacy is a conduit for more than just the pleasure of sex. Nevertheless, without it, appreciation, from the man, for whatever else the relationship offers dissipates, including validation. That’s part of why sex is always first for men.

The surest way a woman can get her man to do what she wants is to satisfy him sexually.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

It is not possible for a man to feel validated without sex, as we need to feel desired & worthy. So sex is very important, but perhaps it's what sex represents that matters more than the sex itself.

[–]gasparddelanuit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is not possible for a man to feel validated without sex, as we need to feel desired & worthy. So sex is very important, but perhaps it's what sex represents that matters more than the sex itself.

What sex represents is important to many men as well. It’s not an either/or situation. It’s all important. Nevertheless, it all starts and ends with sex, hence its primacy for men.

With that said, the pleasure derived by men from the physical acts of sexual intimacy still trump whatever one believes sex represents. The oldest profession in the world is so named for a reason. That and pornography are billion dollar industries. Married men use these services as liberally as single men when they get the opportunity. Even advertisers for unrelated products know that sex sells to men, so this is not about validation. It’s about the titillation and hormonal highs created by sex.

I would say that only an asexual or incel type with extremely low self-esteem and who put women on an inordinately high pedestal might prefer the validation over the actual sex. Your average guy, however, would take sex over validation every time, if it were possible to separate the two.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card7 points8 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

Besides the obvious (all men will cheat or branch swing to a younger/hotter woman if the option is available):

All men are possessive and view women as their property, despite having no moral qualms about stealing someone else's property.

All men think their sexual desire trumps the law, morality and personal agency, and thus are all capable of being rapists despite not thinking that they are.

All men are insecure about their masculinity. This manifests in 1) the conscious and unconscious ways they oppress women to gain the approval of other men, and 2) allowing other men or "society" to dictate what women are acceptable and which are not.

Despite this, all men want women's approval more than sex, more than anything else in life. This is proven by sexless men who say "prostitutes don't count." They want the approval of "legit" women because that's what they need to get the approval of men.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All men think their sexual desire trumps the law, morality and personal agency, and thus are all capable of being rapists despite not thinking that they are.

Hilarious misandry

[–]wattwattyOld and reddish2 points3 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

That's a lot of man-hating stuff right there. Cool.

Your last(ish) point, though, I might even agree with:

all men want women's approval more than sex

But, I don't understand why you continue with:

They want the approval of "legit" women because that's what they need to get the approval of men.

What experience/observation has led you to this conclusion? It's 100% wrong, BTW, but I really am curious why you say it.

[–]planejaneThree Trench Coats in a Trench Coat.2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Tbh though, I don't think she's totally off base on any of her points. I mean look at the other replies to OP. Most of them have to do with what men find visually appealing; there's very little to remark on their character.

Look at any one of the countless threads in the history of this sub on the exact definition of AWALT (I'd link you a few but I'm on mobile). AWALT is not only an observation on the things women find appealing, it's often a criticism of the way they relate to men, the world, as well as each other. While her views might be worded strongly (funny how that makes one wish to reject the message. Almost like some folks do with TRP due to "tone"), there is a core bit of truth to them. At the end of the day, as Jammerly says below (and for once I actually agree with her), men will be exactly as sexually predatory as the system permits, and women are viewed by men at their most primary level as sexual objects.

Remember, AMALT as well as AWALT is a heuristic describing the gender at their most basic, primal level. There's always things like self-awareness, intelligence, morality, and honor to try to combat those carnalities, of course, but at the end of the day, primally, men are sexually opportunistic, predatory, and controlling. Socialization is thankfully a thing that exists, and the only thing that keeps us civilized.

When viewed through that lens, she's not that far off the mark.

[–]wattwattyOld and reddish0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Every point above has either a reasonable opening or a concrete kernel of truth. I would only submit that most of the "extra steps" are nothing more than pure misandry. Indeed, like I said, the first sentence of the final point is something I completely agree with.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card4 points5 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

That's a lot of man-hating stuff right there. Cool.

Yeah. It sucks doesn’t it?

What experience/observation has led you to this conclusion? It's 100% wrong, BTW, but I really am curious why you say i

You’re telling me that the guy in the group with hottest girlfriend doesn’t enjoy a certain status? Chad is Chad (and the envy of trps) because he gets hot women.

[–]wattwattyOld and reddish2 points3 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

You’re telling me that the guy in the group with hottest girlfriend doesn’t enjoy a certain status?

Yeah, I'm telling you that once you're out of high school, this is nonsense. Guys might want to fuck your girlfriend, but they don't admire you any more because of that. Thinking this way is the apotheosis of female solipsism.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.3 points4 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Eh if that was truly the case among “men” then why is there the trope of the trophy wife? Why do men like showing their women off? Who are they trying to impress?

[–]wattwattyOld and reddish1 point2 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Eh if that was truly the case among “men” then why is there the trope of the trophy wife? Why do men like showing their women off? Who are they trying to impress?

These are all women's tropes! Trophy wives might be useful to impress the wife of your boss, but, all other things being equal, the best thing to do with a woman good enough to be termed a "trophy wife" is to keep her the fuck at home. Women pay attention to status conferred by a companion. Men pay attention to tits and ass.

Also, WTF with the scare quotes around "men"? if that's some sort of weird swipe I don't get it.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.3 points4 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

It just means men generally without typing all that out.

These are all women's tropes! Trophy wives might be useful to impress the wife of your boss

No. Lol. Men like showing their women off to other men, not to other women.

the best thing to do with a woman good enough to be termed a "trophy wife" is to keep her the fuck at home.

Which is exactly what “men” with trophy wives do not do.

Men pay attention to tits and ass.

Which is exactly why trophy wives are status symbols among men.

[–]wattwattyOld and reddish1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

No. Lol. Men like showing their women off to other men, not to other women.

Men do not want to show off their women to other men. Only a woman would think that! Showing an attractive woman off to other men is, frankly, needlessly dangerous and fraught.

Which is exactly why trophy wives are status symbols among men.

If a man sees a really attractive woman on a man's arm, the odds of him even seeing the man are essentially zero. The first thing a woman does when sizing up other women is look at her male companion. Men couldn't give two shits.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.5 points6 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Omg yes they do. You have it exactly backwards lol.

[–]wattwattyOld and reddish1 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

So, an actual flesh-and-blood man is telling you his lived experience and you are telling him he is wrong? Good to know.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah that’s why when wealthy men remarry they marry young bimbos — because they’re trying to impress other women.

[–]wattwattyOld and reddish1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They marry young bimbos because those are the people who have bouncy tits and asses. That's all. You're overthinking it. A lot.

[–]quarkbotver10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well you’re just an “outlier” then.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"""Misandry""" aside this is as close to an actual inverse (in tone and content) of AWALT as I've seen on this thread, so kudos

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Why do you think men believe their desire trumps the law?

So men value the approval of other men the most, but use the approval of women as a means to get it?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Why do men get so angry about #metoo, affirmative consent? Why are they so skeptical about any rape victim that wasn't wearing a burka and accosted by a stranger ? Because they believe that their desire absolves them of responsibility for respecting a woman's agency and body.

Yes men want the approval of other men and that approval comes with the price of being successful with attractive women.

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a function of the patriarchy?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Do they routinely apply the "innocent until proven guilty" lens the same way to the accused of other crimes?

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

We all empathize more with the people we relate most to.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So then you admit men automatically assume the man is not guilty and the woman is lying, and they do so for no other reason that he’s also a man?

Doesn’t that suggest this is a universal and uniquely male issue?

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

In so far as women automatically assume the woman is telling the truth and the man is lying, and they do so for not other reason that she's also a woman.

Is that a universal and uniquely female issue?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, you mean like this woman https://arcdigital.media/the-rape-culture-myth-5e8f968b5c76

Or this one: http://judgybitch.com/2013/02/27/guilty-if-i-say-you-are/

Or this one: http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017-05-10.html

Or this one: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/woman-holds-sign-at-feminist-rally-saying-there-is-no-rape-culture-in-the-west-10310370.html

Or this one: https://me.me/i/false-rape-accusations-are-an-integral-component-of-white-supremacist-8385414

Or these women: http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/tag/false-rape-accusations/

Or this woman: https://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/dont-be-that-anti-rape-campaign/

Rape apologist men can always count on having plenty of conservative women invested in promoting the narrative that there are good girls (like them which is why you should marry them and pay their way for the rest of your life) and bad girls who will defend their lies.

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All men are violent sociopaths texting their tinder matches when you get up to go to the bathroom

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are normally attracted to many women simultaneously, just as women are normally only attracted to men who they perceive having qualities that they admire. Many men don’t act on these desires, of course.

Other than that, I think AMALT definitions are as non-universal and therefore useful only as an heuristic as AWALT descriptions are.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My english is not good but I thought that you guys had a thing like "all men are pigs" or "all men are equal" as popular sayings among women. doesn't this qualify as AMALT? I always presumed all males are similarly simple and direct, some may be different like gay men and sociophobe dudes, but overall we are and think similar... we just have some different circumstances TO us. (one is rich, other is tall, other is not smart, and such)

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[–]personalatale 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

uh just look at red pill you get a pretty good idea of what men are like in a men-only forum

[–]Idunnowhy2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

How would you describe it?

[–]TheChemist158Non-Feminist Blue Pill Woman-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And for non-Redpillers, do you think that these equivalents are just as wrong as AWALT?

They have the same capacity to be wrong. It depends on what exactly they are though.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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