Why are women generally not honest about the characteristics they are looking for in a man?

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-06-20T20:08:47+00:00

they don't know they're not being honest

if you ask a woman what shes looking for in a man PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE IS ASSUMED. they dont think you mean "what do you find physically attractive" they respond as if you asked "ok, among all the men who are physically attractive enough, who are the only men you even consider in the first place, THEN what do you like in a man"

when you hear a woman say "i want a man whos kind, smart and funny" they mean ON TOP of being physically attractive enough, they never mean "kind smart and funny AND you dont have to be physically attractive AT all"

tickledpic · 2019-06-20T20:30:00+00:00

Because they are telling about the characteristics they are looking for in a LTR... the man that they want to have a family with.

They don't advertise for what they are looking in a casual partner, because that would make men less motivated to wine & dine them, "treat with respect" and "build something meaningful".

GridReXX · 2019-06-20T22:06:46+00:00

Being attractive to her is already assumed.

I assume it’s a given for men too.

If a guy told me he’s into women who like to bake and are generally pleasant, I’m not going to go out of my way to find him an unattractive woman that meets that criteria. That would make literally 0 sense to me. I’m going to find him the most attractive women I can find who also meet that criteria.

furcryingoutloud · 2019-06-20T20:45:06+00:00

Everybody lies. We men say we want the girl next door, a good girl. Yet we instantly go for the terrible ones. Why? Because they are hot, exciting, and adrenaline rushes. Same goes for women.

Problem is, we live in such a politically correct world, men can't tell a woman they like a big ass. Women can't tell a man they like a big dick. It's taboo to be honest and truthful. Society likes the lies. Noo, I don't masturbate. I don't like sluts, and I certainly don't like extremely hot women. No, I don't like muscle guys. All lies, but it fits the narrative.

Lying about this also helps us fit into the victim mentality which is also so prevalent. Oh he left me, the bastard. She cheated on me, the bitch. But better to be left or cheated on than to be bored with the good ones. The good ones are boooooring.

Your question is a one size fits all, both men and women lie through their teeth about this. Myself included.

TheJim66 · 2019-06-20T20:35:09+00:00

Because many of the things they are looking for aren't exactly praised by most of society and they want to appear more moral.Also to be fair most of them don't know that they want these things ,it just HAPPENS that they are attracted to them.

LeJacquelope · 2019-06-20T20:43:22+00:00

The same could be said for men.

Men say they look for a cute (not super hot), modest, simple, loving, hardworking, patient woman

Yet many of men fall in love with female Alphas/Stacys (usually on the slutty side) with shit characters all the time lol

praisethesun799 · 2019-06-20T21:24:49+00:00

every time I see a post like this,I think "aggressive, loud insensitive" just means "assertive , extroverted , direct " from the perspective of a shy , meek introverted guy. It's like the nerds in high school who complain about the girls all falling for the jerks. The problem is that from their point of view, every guy who plays sports and is forward with women is a "douchebag", or a dudebro , jerk whatever. Holy bias people

snkrwy2019 · 2019-06-20T20:27:55+00:00

The women who are open about what they want (6 feet, 6 inches, etc.) get crucified for it by men who don’t live up to their standards.

planejane · 2019-06-20T20:18:03+00:00

This is a pretty impressive black-and-white list you've put together. Are you really suggesting that the guys women go for are more willing to cheat? Or that the less-sought after guys are naturally inclined to be more faithful?

Cause I'll tell you that's not the case. They may differ in the actual opportunity to stray, but it's a factor of AMALT that men are significantly more likely to pursue extra-monogamous sexual experiences than women, and I simply don't believe less-Chadly men are any more loyal in their minds and hearts. My male family members and friends don't back it up, and neither does my own dating experience or the experiences of many of my friends. In fact I'd LIKE to see data on this, if you've got it; I welcome the chance to change my mind, but no woman will agree with you that less handsome guys are naturally any more loyal than handsome ones.

Men are only as faithful as their conditioning and opportunities permit, regardless of Alpha/Beta status.

Christian_Kong · 2019-06-20T20:41:11+00:00

I think if asked what they want they use an answer using logic. In the face of the guys that actually get their motor going they choose using emotion.

xKalisto · 2019-06-20T20:51:51+00:00

Just how many men that exist fit the second bill even?

What about all the chubby contently married office pals? There's tons of normal ass people that simply don't fit in this paradigm.

This is a fantasy propagated by culture and media that doesn't actually fit the real life. Ohhh the bad boy that all the party girls like. The crazy ditzy hot 10s. The gym obsessed dude bro.

Meanwhile majority of the Western world is fat as fuck and they still pair off.

Now that I think about the media picture it actually fits very well because the dreamy mc dreamy bad boy is a guy who is super kind to the special her meanwhile jerk to potential aggressors. That makes sense with biology since she is looking for provider and defender.

CainPrice · 2019-06-20T20:59:59+00:00

Men who ask this question are men who can't read between the lines.

Women -absolutely- have a -very strong- preference for men who are kind, honest, decent, etc. etc.

But that doesn't mean that women are willing to sacrifice the man actually being attractive. When a woman says "I want a man who's smart and kind and makes me laugh", she thinks that you're intelligent enough to know that she means she wants a man who is attractive, that she is attracted to, who is also smart and kind and makes her laugh.

If she's faced with an attractive asshole and an unattractive guy who's nice and smart and funny, she's going to have sex with the asshole and try to be friends with the smart and funny guy, because she's just not attracted to him.

It's also worth noting that nobody likes a pushover. Men and women both hate people-pleasing doormat losers. They're creepy and weird. So it's important to draw a distinction between a woman (or anybody for that matter) liking a guy who is "nice and decent" and a guy being a weak-willed loser pushover that nobody likes even though he's technically being nice and giving people what they want.

In fact, ideally, a woman would like a guy who's strong, stoic, and tears the world a new asshole on a daily basis, but who's tender and sweet and opens up to her and only her. That makes her feel special. If you're just a disgustingly nice people-pleaser all the time, that looks weak.

sugabelly · 2019-06-20T21:43:10+00:00

Women want those characteristics in a man they are already physically attracted to.

wtknight · 2019-06-20T20:24:14+00:00

I think that a lot of women have a visceral attraction towards good looks first and foremost. If you ask many women what they are attracted to and give them time to think about it, they’ll list the first set of traits, but still be viscerally attracted to good looking men who have the second set of traits. I do think that women, through experience and maturity, learn to temper this visceral attraction and begin to become attracted to men who are still good looking enough to them, but who also have enough of the first list of qualities that they desire from a man long term.

TRP tries to teach men to get into that list of good looking men with poor character traits, which in my opinion will find a man mostly low quality women for short term relationships instead of high quality women who can curb their visceral attraction and who are looking for high quality men from the beginning.

blackkindergods · 2019-06-20T20:42:35+00:00

Because women who are honest about that are vilified and hated, so they lie. Also, they do like those good guy characteristics. They like ALL of the characteristics you listed. In part, I’m sure the complicated and fickle nature of their attractions have to do with the level of sexual power and thus options they possess. I’m sure it’s not easy wielding all of that. It sucks for us men, but we wouldn’t fare any better in their shoes. Quite a bit worse, I’m certain. All you have to do for existing examples of it is look at rich men, male celebrities, etc.. They are known to use and discard women like nothing. At least most women try. But we whine and act like victims about it, which solves nothing and gets us no further. This isn’t a gender problem. This is a reality problem. The sooner you accept reality, the easier life gets and smarter decisions you can make for yourself and others. For me, I just turned 40 and have had a few years to think about and accept all of this. My solution is to remain single and primarily date around and even patron escorts, due to the nature of my physical attractions. I’ve decided I don’t want all of the stress and drama that can inherently come with relationships, all while barely attracted to a partner because I can’t “do better.” But even the doing better part is a complete illusion. All I really mean is hotter at the end of the day. I’m also a more sexually driven person though. I would absolutely require substance in a long-term mate and definitely remain open to it if the heavens open up and shower me with such luck. But it’s unlikely I’ll ever match up with the ideal package. So, I accept life as it is, because things like marriage are social constructs that began with the advent of agriculture anyway (read Sex At Dawn, it will change your life). If you invest your desire in ideas that aren’t reliable, you may indeed get undesirable results I have come to find.

says_harsh_things · 2019-06-20T21:18:57+00:00

If a car salesman asks "what makes you let your guard down and make an impulse purchase when you're on my lot?" Are you going to tell him?

Orange_Paisley · 2019-06-20T21:21:23+00:00

They aren’t dishonest about the characteristics they are looking for in a man. They are perhaps delusional about being able to attract and keep that kind of man. Unless you’re a top tier Stacy you’re going to take the best man you can get that also likes you back.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2019-06-20T22:00:22+00:00

Another thread in which people bend over backwards trying to comprehend the simple fact that women are not all the same and that there will be variances in the behavior of half the population

poppy_blu · 2019-06-21T01:16:48+00:00

Whenever this question is asked, I always want to know if you guys are under the impression that men act around women the way they act around men.

aggressive, dominant, loud

That’s the way they are around other men, not around women. I mean do you date “aggressive, dominant, loud” men to know how they are in a dating scenario?

kind, caring, good, decent, polite

I’m not seeing how this man can’t also be aggressive, dominant, and loud. Maybe because you like most manospherians are stuck on believing that “kind, caring, good, decent, polite” mean supplicating doormat. This is all more about the value judgement you’re attach to certain characteristics than anything else.

honest

Everyone wants an honest partner but everyone is capable of being an honest partner. Human nature is not honest in case that escaped you.

goatismycopilot · 2019-06-20T20:23:07+00:00

They are honest, men tend not to listen to large chunks of what women say.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-06-20T20:13:36+00:00

I don't understand why women's words and actions are so conflicting on this issue.

You showed up to a poker game thinking they'll all let you peek at their hand? You ever ask a teacher for the answer key before a test?

More specifically, why would they want to help out a man that doesn't "just get it"?

ThisIsJustATr1bute · 2019-06-20T20:07:11+00:00

Sometimes the guy is a sweetheart and loving and affectionate to his woman, while being more dominant and aggressive out in the world, so men think women are choosing jerks. Actually the ideal is a man who’s caring and lover to her while aggressive enough to outsiders to protect them both.

SweetLikeTupeloHoney · 2019-06-20T20:15:50+00:00

I think it is because we are random and it is what we feel when you ask. When someone asks me, I am going to say whatever I am focused on at the time. But the truth is we simply just want it all.

I think it is a myth that we want aggressive, dominant, loud, muscular (whose life clearly does revolve around the gym), cheaters, players, insensitive, not good listeners etc. Very few women I know want that and the ones who actually do for some reason think they can change him.

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TheChemist158 · 2019-06-20T20:45:00+00:00

I don't know, I married a guy that fits into the first list. Don't actually know many guys who for into list two. Not really my crowd.

kandyapplez · 2019-06-20T20:48:58+00:00

aggressive, dominant, loud, muscular (whose life clearly does revolve around the gym), cheaters, players, insensitive, not good listeners etc.

the women who like these kind of men tend to be pretty honest about it ime. i'm around a lot of nightlife girls and strippers and if you ask them what their type is they will say exactly what you described lol.

we aren't allowed to ~ talk race ~ here so i'll just end it there

[deleted] · 2019-06-20T20:49:24+00:00

An interesting study by Cowan and Little, which looked at humour and attractiveness found that physically attractive people were deemed to be “funnier” than less attractive people when the subjects could see the speaker. When presented with audio only, this effect wasn’t so pronounced.

[deleted] · 2019-06-20T21:16:47+00:00

I think this is more a reddit thing than a women thing. Most of my girl friends irl would laugh at the notion that they don't care about looks, height, dick size, etc. And generally the kind, loyal ones are pairing up with kind, loyal guys and the assholes end up with the assholes.

This sub is better than others but I have found it strange how many unselfaware and naive people there are on reddit suggesting that all women care about is personality. Like it just seems so blatantly false if you have ever stepped foot in society.

Five_Decades · 2019-06-20T21:32:30+00:00

Because people have short term and long term mating strategies.

The stuff women say they want are for long term mating. The stuff that you see them pursue is for short term mating strategies. Good looking men with dominant traits and dark triad traits are valued for short term mating.

Also lots of women do try to lock down a high RMV man in their 20s. They just dont' end up on redpill.

[deleted] · 2019-06-20T22:21:44+00:00

First of all, both sets of characteristics aren't mutually exclusive. Some of the loudest guys I've met are also the most loving boyfriends. A guy who presented himself as quiet and sensitive and totally my type ended up being manipulative and emotionally abusive. And I wish I could say I only fell for that sort of bullshit once. But I made the same mistake twice because things are more nuanced than TRP would want to believe, and there is no cookie-cutter mold for terrible people.

We all want a loving, caring, loyal partner for a LTR - but those characteristics are not often obvious at a glance. Abusers present themselves like this, at first, which makes them hard to spot.

If you are talking about one night stands or fuck buddies, then the standards are vastly different, but again there is a lot of nuance. When I did the one-night-stand thing, I wanted someone good-looking enough I could hit it off with, who could hold a conversation, and who didn't give off rapey vibes. Yes, these low standards mean that me and my friends often hooked up with complete douches. But the douches were regretful experiences never to be repeated, as for the decent guys.. well, here I am in a relationship with a good-friend-turned-lover seven years and counting, which started from what I believed would be a FWB arrangement.

H2orocks3000 · 2019-06-20T23:23:59+00:00

Because we all are human and operate by 2 systems

1 of our cognitive rational mind (stuck in past and future focus)

And

1 of our emotional mind (focused on: presence of the moment and feelings, emotional probabilities (works the same way that ptsd gets formed by stress sensitization) and also has a whole host of other rules and laws by which it works. This is the system by which we all make decisions in the moment.)

Something like 90% of our emotions as humans are unconscious.

That means we are not all aware of what Iain our subconscious.

If you have ever interacted with someone with avoidant attachment patterns you will notice they seem to not be aware of emotions that a more anxious person would have in various situations. They actually have the same needs for instance, but where classically conditioned to suppress subconsciously those needs and feelings so they are not consciously aware of it.

This highlights the difficulty that comes with building self-awareness.

We would like to assume we are aware of who and what we are and how we act etc.

Our patterns, but when we have bias’s for our memories, most moments our brain dosent remember, and when we are not tracking things, or don’t have an openness and patient determination and exploration and learning process to actually grow in that process.

Then we don’t.

f0e_paw · 2019-06-20T23:32:05+00:00

Here's the best answer Brah.

https://youtu.be/uD191rAGYlA

Just listen to Patrice O'Neal and you will get a way better understanding about women.

How to treat them, how to handle them. And why they do things they do.

Muse_asvhedu · 2019-06-21T02:02:03+00:00

Because women who have gotten the guy they want (and who stayed the guy they want) aren’t going out looking for guys? Almost every woman I know in a relationship is in a relationship with a partner who exhibits the former characteristics. All the women I know looking for a relationship are doing so because their partner exhibits the latter. Unless the relationship is abusive, I’ve never seen a women stay with that person; usually the guy has misrepresented themselves.

saphirekey · 2019-06-21T02:22:33+00:00

Well, my boyfriend is not tall, muscular, aggressive or anything like that.

He is kind, caring, thoughtful, and a little ditzy.

Ex boyfriends in the past have been kind and caring, other than my abusive ex who hid it from me until he moved into my apartment without paying his share. The one trait my exes always shared though was being jealous to the point of controlling. Usually I got dumped because I refused to stop being friends with guys that were seen as competition by them, even though I had no attraction to them.

I'm not sure where the "men should be aggressive and assertive to get women. Being mean will get women in your bed no issue."

It's just not something I find attractive.

fevertree · 2019-06-21T03:44:08+00:00

If you’re having trouble getting a woman try dating a woman who is less attractive or who is socially awkward. Their standards tend to be lower. I think a lot of people will comment on the sub are picturing extremely attractive women and what they say and want. But the likelihood of having an extremely attractive partner of either sex is generally low.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2019-06-24T08:12:10+00:00

Social Desirability Bias: if they say exactly what they want they may feel they're very shallow people, and they don't want others to think of them as shallow.
Female Privilege Preservation: much benevolent sexism (aka chivalry aka female privilege) enjoyed by women comes from men doing things for women whilst being under the impression that women find benevolence a sexually attractive trait. If this impression were explicitly dispelled, women will enjoy far less "princessing" than they're currently accustomed to.
Mimicry Prevention. Women want "naturals," i.e. men whom are hot genetically and without huge amounts of conscious effort. They also want men whom are socially adroit and capable of understanding body language, subtle signalling, and that kind of tacit communication. This means they don't want to explain how to be hot, because that would give 'spergy losers a "how to misrepresent your genetic quality to women" manual.

These are the three reasons. All of women's refusal to engage in straightforward, blunt, honest communication about sex and romance reduces down to these three things. They don't want to look shallow/admit their own shallowness, they don't want to reduce the benevolence they receive automatically, and they don't want to make it easier for losers to breed with them.

rothkochapel · 2019-07-18T08:26:37+00:00

Women, in general, want men who are socially adroit within mainstream society. They want men who are charismatic and intuitive because those traits were especially advantageous in tribal society and to an extent are still advantageous in many situations today.

This means women have an incentive to communicate on two levels. On the explicit/in specific words level, and on the tacit/subtle/complicated social signalling level. If women want men who are fully able to comprehend and understand the latter level and absolutely do not want men who are only able to socially operate on the former level (for example, geeks and nerds and asperger/autism spectrum types), it makes perfect sense for women to simultaneously falsify what they want at the former level, whilst being absolutely honest in terms of their latter level communication.

Why? Genetic screening. The true message is communicated only to those women want to communicate it to , and the false message serves as a smokescreen that confuses or deludes the men they wouldn't pick anyway.

You may fairly ask why such complicated mechanisms are necessary. The reason is because whilst many components of mate quality are obvious (i.e. conveyed by physical appearance), some aren't. And further, those which aren't can be mimicked by someone skilled enough at doing so. As such, the genetic interests of women are not served through making it easier for men to be exactly what women want.

So this is what women have to gain by lying, at least explicitly (on the tacit/implicit/subtle level of communication, they are not lying). Certain kinds of deception can increase the supply of beta orbiters/female privilege/benevolent sexism/chivalry, and they can also function as screening mechanisms to root out all the 'socially challenged' members of the gene pool.

geyges · 2019-06-20T20:07:37+00:00

You’re off base.

What your first list is about is for Billy Betas. You’re not understanding but she does want that. If he is also Chad or she can no longer get Chad.

sublimemongrel · 2019-06-20T21:09:50+00:00

“Women” do not always go for guys with that list of traits you listed off. That’s like some incellish myth that only assholes and players and gym bros attract women.

ohheyhi99 · 2019-06-20T21:25:52+00:00

People are taught that female attraction is pure and character-driven, so people analyze female attraction with that conclusion in mind.

Sara might say that she likes Joe because he’s so nice, but deep down, she only noticed that he’s nice because he’s cute too.

On the other hand, people are taught that male attraction is almost exclusively looks-driven, so people analyze male attraction with that conclusion in mind.

Joe might say that he’s into Sarah because she’s cute, but deep down, but he wouldn’t be with her if she wasn’t a nice person too.

statsfodder · 2019-06-20T21:01:44+00:00

They virtue signal... none will answer that they want the buff jock that will pull their hair because you might judge them so they claim they want wholesome..

Pope_Lucious · 2019-06-20T21:09:13+00:00

They want those characteristics IN ADDITION to characteristics which make them attracted to a man.

They don’t realize it’s easy to be kind, it’s difficult to learn to lead, be appropriately assertive, and have other shit men have to have together in order to be attractive.

toysjoe · 2019-06-20T21:39:27+00:00

It’s not socially acceptable.

UTC24 · 2019-06-20T22:13:46+00:00

Because virtue signaling is VERY important to women. For majority of human history, women can't survive by themselves. They need to cultivate relationship with others in order to secure food, shelter and fight off predators. So they need to be seen as a good person. They have an inate desire to conform and to be seen as part of team. Being in conflict with someone can be very uncomfortable for women. I do think the prevalent politically correct culture is created for women's consumption mostly, with the help from men eager to please. Most of left fit in this category.

The_Lone_Apple · 2019-06-20T22:46:34+00:00

This posits that the assumptions of Red Pill are incontrovertible truths which frankly they are not. Your statement begins with a conclusion that you show no evidence for except for the musings of partisans on Red Pill.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-06-20T22:49:29+00:00

I think the deception women do on this topic is more subtle

They’ll say things like “sure all women like a fit guy, but it’s not a big deal, how fit you have to be to get women is just a moderately fit baseline”

Which isn’t true at all, when you’re super super fit it’s a million times easier to get girls than when you’re moderately fit

Ezaar · 2019-06-21T02:25:01+00:00

It also might be a mechanism to not fake who you are just to get laid.

If women know what type of man they want and express that, then some one could use it as a means to attempt to be that person.

If you are not that person who they think you are, then she won’t be getting into something she thinks she’s getting into.

If the physical aspects are true and the characteristic aspects are true, irrespective of genders, then an individual has found a match.

The context of proving oneself “enough” through time is what is to be considered a relationship of arbitrary length.

So, in order to obtain genuine person, you need to observe genuine aspects of the person in context

[deleted] · 2019-06-21T11:51:40+00:00

To be fair, I don’t believe they’re purposely being dishonest. Society likes to use the word “shallow” when we say that we want someone attractive, and that if we don’t find that person attractive then there isn’t much that person can do to bring us in. There’s nothing wrong with this at all, and honestly the only ones who are sad are the unattractive people (so who cares about them right?).

Fact is, when women say the characteristics of a man they want (I want a sensitive guy, or a smart guy, a family guy, you get where I’m going) it can be assumed almost 95% of the time that those come after their minimum looks threshold. It’s like a guy for a woman, sure we want a girl who is cool, or interesting, or motivated, but we don’t want those traits attached to a homely chick.

So yeah I don’t think anyone is lying when they say what they want in a partner, but that partner needs to be physically attractive for the traits to even matter. If not, then those people can easily be friends, but nothing more.

Ultramegasaurus · 2019-06-21T13:11:19+00:00

Both men and women are convinced of the latter's moral superiority in every facet of life but especially sexuality. Hence why people always think women are only attracted to wholesome characteristics like confidence, humor, kindness etc and deny female shallowness.

BumblingBeta · 2019-06-21T19:02:26+00:00

Once you get past the honest problem. Then you have to deal with the hypergamy problem. 7's think they should be with 10's. Lmaoooo

Bntt89 · 2019-06-21T21:19:40+00:00

Because women care a lot about social status, they prominently dont want to look bad. This is why for so long they have been saying they want nice guys, because it looks better socially. They can't say they want dominant masculine men, that goes against the feminist movement. I think that's about it they look bad socially if they say what they want, saying you want a handsome guy who makes a ton of money looks shallow and most women dont want to look shallow.

DXBrigade · 2019-06-21T21:42:43+00:00

Women like men who are hot, but it's not politically correct to say so.

rumple5skins · 2019-06-22T15:19:54+00:00

People project. They tell you what they want to be, not who they are. This is true for men and women, so much so that being direct about it is off-putting.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2019-06-22T18:25:48+00:00

most women are not dishonest. it is implied that whenever we say we want man this or man that he is already physically attractive .

why males here have that surprised pikachu face is beyond me.

irishpunk87 · 2019-06-24T07:09:27+00:00

We must be living in an alternate reality because everything you've said, though a popular belief, is completely disproven by overwhelming evidence and experience. I've met very few men who meet the latter criteria (the aggressive ones), and almost countless who meet the former. The dominant aggressive guys attract a particular kind of girl, normally one who has low self esteem, is immature, not very intelligent, etc. The nice caring guys get plenty of girls, even babes, and are the most likely to end up in marriage/LTRs. I believe this is overwhelmingly attested in the psychological literature on relationships (at least to some degree, as some of these criteria are rather subjective), as well as in my own personal experience.

TheBearJew6779 · 2019-06-24T23:08:10+00:00

OP, you're wildly mischaracterizing what females are looking for. In aggregate, I'm sure everything you listed in the first typology is fairly uniform among most women college age and after. It definitely isn't that women seek the second, however. It may better serve you to instead readjust the frame in which you view the second typology.

Aggressive: this should probably be redefined as assertive. Most people, women and men both, like someone who knows what they want and seek it out. If they want to do something, they do it; if they have a motivation or aspiration, they work towards achieving that goal; if they like someone, they tell them.
Dominant: Realistically, this plays into the former quite well as an addendum. An individual who takes charge through their assertiveness is appealing to everyone, both men and women. Not just sexually, but also in life in general. When I was in the army, assertiveness was (generally) rewarded, and being dominant is essential for success as a leader be it officer or NCO.
Loud: This one's tricky, since I'm not sure everyone would agree with this. Still, what you might perceive as simply being loud, a woman might view as more gregarious. Someone who likes to have fun, can communicate well with other people, and is generally a likable person.
Muscular (life clearly does revolve around the gym): This is debatable. A lot of women aren't attracted to that physique, though plenty certainly are. Women may not be as driven by evolution to gauge what is conventionally attractive, but having a muscular frame (to whatever degree) does seem to be a trait women have always enjoyed. An early example goes back to Ancient Greece, where an Athenian writer noted that the local girls looked with awe and lust at Spartan soldiers and specifically stated that their much more muscular frames and beards were the primary reasons. Women like a guy to look healthy, that's an evolutionary thing; what they don't want is a guy who spends all his time at the gym and not doing other things, or more specifically takes on the full ascetic lifestyle that more devoted bodybuilders pursue (such as not drinking, heavily regimented diet, etc). Basically, someone who looks good but whose world does not revolve around the lifestyle, but rather is merely a component of it.

The second part of this list is more easy to discuss, mainly because it isn't something that's plainly seen. My best female friend (known her since we were both 10) was with a guy for many years, when it came out that he was a serial cheater and had been doing so with numerous women for years. I'd met the guy plenty of times, loved the dude to death, and was probably as devastated as my poor friend. He was a super friendly, fun, charismatic and sensitive person, on the outside. But in reality, he was a huge playboy but hid that side of him from the women he was with. She had no way of actually knowing this. So cheaters, players, insensitive, not good listener etc, all are things that women very well and likely do seek to avoid. It isn't until they're hurt that they know the individual for what they are. The reason this occurs is because those kinds of people are very good at mimicking the desirable traits sought after by women. So it isn't that women are lying about what they want, its that some of the guys who exhibit those traits better are in reality the latter typology.

geyges · 2019-06-20T20:13:06+00:00

The second list is almost a polar opposite to the first list

tournament vs pair bonding traits.

One shows them that men have strong genes, and another shows them that men can rear children successfully. Ideally you want to be dominant in every day life, but also kind and sensitive to her in particular. That gets them super wet. Usually have to mop up the floor afterwards.

amber224 · 2019-06-20T21:29:19+00:00

Because we grow up with horrble fathers and low self esteem,so we don't really have an idea of what a 'good' man is and we settle for whatever life as offered us,which isn't always the besBecause we grow up with horrble fathers and low self esteem,so we don't really have an idea of what a 'good' man is and we settle for whatever life as offered us,which isn't always the best.

Kingjez · 2019-06-20T22:01:23+00:00

Because they are duplicitous cowards scared to reveal their degenerate nature for fear of losing out on benifits.

wotsittoyou · 2019-06-20T23:48:39+00:00

On a one to one level... like why don't we just say "Oh hey I really want a guy who is (list of things)" right there on the first date? That would be because men lie and the last thing a woman should do is just hand over her personal cheat codes to a stranger. If what you want is a guy looking to start a family in the next two years or guy with a job who is willing to move in and live with you while you do college or a guy who is ambitious about making money or is a bit dangerous and edgy or a guy who will annoy your father by being a bad boy it is best to say nothing and discover the truth through observation you've got a better chance of finding the real deal and wasting less time on liars that way.

Why in general on a broader level, might we give less than satisfactory responses when men ask "what do women want?" well that would be because we generally tailor our answers to try to be useful to the particular man who is answering the question and also not to make him enraged at us. Some guy will be told "women want guys who shower" and another guy will be told "women want guys who are witty and chatty" and a third one will be told "women want a bit of muscle maybe join a gym" and you know what... that's all true even if it wasn't the exact, detailed, precise and extensive instruction manual you were seeking to get for free.

Also to be blunt, you aren't asking the plastic bitches in the bodycon dresses who demand you buy them drinks at the bar... around them you're slackjawed and just trying to do your best and obviously "I dunno what women want" is NOT your best.What you do as a man is after the event you hunt down someone a bit mumsy, a bit less than fully attractive, a bit kind and maybe a bit lonely/bored and chatty, someone you don't actually want to fuck... and you ask her. And she tells you. She pretty much every time describes the guy she's got at home, plus or minus 10% . So there you go. Women are not all the same, who'da thunk it.

trail22 · 2019-06-21T00:38:19+00:00

Because they are only aware of what attracte them, never what doesnt attract them. Or if they are aware of what doesnt attract them, its only the very edge cases

Title	Why are women generally not honest about the characteristics they are looking for in a man?
Author	BumblingBeta
Upvotes	45
Comments	269
Date	June 20, 2019 8:03 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/c30tdk/why_are_women_generally_not_honest_about_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-are-women-generally-not-honest-about-the.255198 https://theredarchive.com/post/255198