Why are you trying to shame "women" into lowering their standards?

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-10-04T15:18:50+00:00

No leading questions

meisterkraus · 2022-10-04T12:15:15+00:00

I will say this, tell you that your standards have a low percentage of occuring and shaming you for having them are two different things. And most people have I hard time articulating the first with out going into the second.

Sad_Entertainer6312 · 2022-10-04T13:15:53+00:00

It's usually about lowering unrealistic standards.

E.g.

If you're a 5 and want a 8,9 or 10, unrealistic, unless you've got huge bonuses the other person desires.

If you're making 40k a year, it's unrealistic to expect yo land a partner making 200k a year, unless you've got huge bonuses the other person desires.

fdswasamistake · 2022-10-04T12:33:46+00:00

Because they do the same. Tit for tat.

Steakman1 · 2022-10-04T12:19:19+00:00

Are we considering any distaste or disagreement held towards women’s standards as shaming? Or are we specifically referring to the guys who go out of their way to call women names over their standards?

Play_Muted · 2022-10-04T12:07:54+00:00

we dont, we shame simps to not inflate your egos.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-10-04T12:30:11+00:00

Nobody shames hot women going for hot guy. They shame LVW going for hot guy.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-10-04T13:02:10+00:00

But if they can’t make women feel bad and settle, then some of the dudes here might actually have to put in work. Not only physically, but also professionally and socially! It’s way easier to complain on the internet in between liking every hot girl image that pops into thier IG feed.

Gilmoregirlin · 2022-10-04T12:32:34+00:00

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EnteFetz · 2022-10-04T13:46:10+00:00

I want women to lower their standards so that I have a chance to get one of them.

I don't understand what exactly is controversial or contradictory about this.

Gilmoregirlin · 2022-10-04T14:16:44+00:00

I don't understand this either, I always think of the scenario like "hey this is my girlfriend (wife) I convinced her to lower her standards to be with me." I respect standards that both men and women have, no issues with either. The chances that one is able to find a partner to meet those standards, is truly none of my business and does not effect me because again allowing it to effect me would be asking them to lower their standards. As a woman I would never want anyone to lower their standards to be with me, I would rather be alone forever than have someone do that.

Flintblood · 2022-10-04T14:47:50+00:00

Why did some people create a cultural zeitgeist for shaming men into accepting obese female body types? You can’t deny there has been a huge push for (female) body acceptance.

Whenever I visit Target, half of the female body mannequins are ‘plus-sized’ yet all of the male mannequins are lean and muscular and none of the male mannequin are shorter than average (I’m 5’10 and around average for the west).

Edits: spelling for mannequin and correcting typos

2022-10-04T12:10:17+00:00

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UnrelentingCaptain · 2022-10-04T14:07:52+00:00

Has anyone IRL shamed you? That almost never happens in the West, outside of families.

As a different perspective, I have a daughter, and women with inflated standards are a terrible example; you're basically claiming that being used for sex is empowering, by men who won't even remember your face the very next day. I've seen it often, how bitter middle aged women looking to settle down become, and how increasingly less "valuable" men settle down and remain faithful to those women. I work in finance and there's a pretty noticeable trend that newer hires are usually single, and then as they go up they become promiscuous and see women as only good for sex. I used to be in charge of interns and such for several years, and this has trend is increasing in intensity. The only thing that remained the same, was young couples where they got married early, and the man realized his potential with help of his wife. Our CEO and half of the married guys in the upper echelons of the company have this background.

Asking women to lower their standards is a waste of time. But you are actively sabotaging yourselves in the long run, unless you wish to remain single and without kids, in which case I don't think anyone really cares. In my daughter's case, I'm gonna reccomend her to marry early with a college bf, earnest with potential. The rookie analyst of today is the Fund Manager of tomorrow. If you waste your 20s being passed around, you really aren't gonna get that guy later on. The older generations could, but newer ones are gonna have it much more difficult.

Gilmoregirlin · 2022-10-04T12:32:46+00:00

I think the main thing personally speaking, is that if you have standards for a potential spouse, than you should reach these standards yourself, or your gender's equivalent of those standards. If women did this, than I doubt many men would complain, as it's too reasonable haha

Rook_Cross · 2022-10-04T14:17:48+00:00

This is exactly why they do it, to abuse them into settling for them. They also do it just to take out rage on them and feel superior. but they're hoping that some other woman in their area will realize that he a suitable sexual partner, not a partner mind you, a sexual partner. though they do want to settle later, with someone of a much "higher standard" then themselves. Basically these men live in a fantasy that they are upset they can't force and so try to with these repeated attempts at shaming, belittling, abusing, etc.

Nellylocheadbean · 2022-10-04T14:08:35+00:00

Anytime someone offers constructive criticism to women, they equate it to shaming. I’m a woman and I see women do it all the time. For the most part, ppl are telling AVERAGE women to have AVERAGE standards. Women constantly inflate themselves to think they’re above average mostly because they have a decent education and can take care of themselves, that does not make you above average.

equivalent-circle · 2022-10-04T15:12:26+00:00

I think perceptions are skewed. a 5-6 woman can match with 8-10 men on dating apps and this will inflate their self-perception whereas 7 men will have issues even matching with 5-6 women and this will deflate their self-perception, skewing the scale in both directions.

in reality the 8 guy may sleep with the 5-6 girl but not stick with her. so a 5 girl may think she’s an 8 due to this and look for similar men. but in reality an 8 woman is so universally attractive she could literally choose any guy she wants to date minus some 9-10 tier men / celebs but even those men are within reach if she crosses their social circles.

a 7 guy IRL may realistically be able to get 6-6.5s and realistically occasionally they may be able to he 7-8s . but in general women like to date across or up whereas men will date down due to lack of options

so a 7 guy looking for a 7-8 girl is going to have an uphill struggle.

bodaciousbonsai · 2022-10-04T15:37:50+00:00

I can't take a post like this seriously without examples. If a statement of fact/opinion hurts your feelings, it's not necessarily shaming. Saying you're a bad person for doing x, y, or z, is shaming.

Embarrassed-Tune9038 · 2022-10-04T12:24:24+00:00

It is one thing to shame, it is another to point out expectations are the poison of happiness.

It is one thing to expect good grooming habits, but with men who have good grooming, their relationships also fall apart. Why? Because there are more expectations.

He must have a good job, but can't work a lot. He must be ambitious but will drop his ambition at the drop of a hat for me. He must have other women's approval but never slept with him. All my friends have to approve of him. He must be great in bed, but again, can't have many sexual partners to learn how to be great in bed. He must tell me No, but I reserve the right to initiate a relationship ending fight over it. He must be a great communicator. Must be tall. Must have a great body but never goes to the gym where another woman may try to access it.

I can go on and on.

If women want long term commitment into old age, they have to audit themselves just as much as a man is gonna have to.

And they have to stop complaining about their relationships falling apart or not being able to find 'a good guy'.

Edit:

It really isn't about just having standards. It is about how numerous your standards are, how high you set them and how much wiggle room there is.

"He makes great money but doesn't have a degree."

"He is great in bed, but doesn't have a great job."

"Oh my God he is gorgeous! But he isn't emotionally available! Why do I always pick emotionally unavailable men!"

"He is amazing but my mother hates him!"

"He'd make a great father but-"

"He is a great man, but-"

LetSuitable5665 · 2022-10-04T12:44:56+00:00

Agreed, but I think women who dont have anything to offer and have these high standards need to improve on themselves, in the context of getting a HVM. Same goes for men. An unemployed fat guy living in his parents basement can have high standards too, but if you don’t improve on yourself, your true options will be 0 and will stay that way unless you improve.

anonymous-platypus1 · 2022-10-04T12:14:22+00:00

it's not shaming, its being realistic; women standards are fucking unrealistic and often what most of women say they want is a small% of men.

Men do not want women to "settle down", being the guy that she chooses to settle down is miserable because she will never, NEVER, be satisfied thinking about the partners she had before.

Men just want to build a family and try to be happy, what can't happen when your partner have a russian roullete chance to just leave you for the smalles of things or when you're forced to bend yourself to just be this caricature of what a "men" should be.

blockboii190 · 2022-10-04T12:58:19+00:00

FUCKING THANK YOU bro people keep saying woman won't date down and I'm like ok and good for them your actual a god sent

dukesaces · 2022-10-04T14:07:42+00:00

Most men aren't trying to shame women into lowering their standards. At least not the men on here. Most men are simply telling women that their standards are unrealistic given that they themselves don't meet those standards and they'll probably end up alone or be forced to settle. If they're fine with that then it's perfectly fine.

A lot of men on here also express their high standards such as not wanting a fat woman, an older woman, a woman who's career obsessed or a woman with a significant past. A lot of women also tell us that we need to be aware that it'll be difficult to find women that meet those standards and to be okay with either settling or being alone.

Women's standards may get more criticism because they're a lot more superficial and can be a tad silly while men's standards are more pragmatic but at the end of the day you're welcome to your standards, whatever they may be. Just don't complain if you fail to get someone that meets them.

Mydragonurdungeon · 2022-10-04T12:14:28+00:00

If you are crap because of your behavior (such as being overly picky) then ceasing that behavior should make it so you're no longer considered crappy.

Why does it need to stop? Because women like being picky?

Why is it pathetic to want attention from the opposite sex?

So if I dislike a woman because she hooks up with guys that won't date her because they are out of her league, I should be happy that she doesn't want to date someone in her own league?

None of what you're saying makes sense

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-10-04T13:12:29+00:00

I've only seen "women" shamed for their double standards between casual sex and committed sex, no shaming for standards per se.

xzpw · 2022-10-04T13:08:19+00:00

Strawman.

Men are trying to get women to realize their standards are like the saying - “you’re writing checks that your body can’t cash.” Most women are looking for something that they themselves are never going to be able to obtain. Once they hit “the wall” or just get older - sometimes these standards fall.

The other thing is - I think many men want women to just fucking think about what they want in a partner and really think about it for a long time and be upfront with what they want. The standards need to be reasonable. Often what I see is “women be shoppin’” - in that they go out and see what’s available and don’t have a fucking clue what they want. This is true of even single women at 40, man. It’s insane. I’ve had to confront women and it took weeks to get them to realize “oh maybe I should really sit down and think about what I want in a partner and then tell people that instead of just finding someone shiny and sleeping with them and then getting upset when they leave because I wasn’t clear about what I wanted. Actually - I didn’t even know what I wanted from them but I was upset with what happened anyway.”

That is the basic issue. Women be shoppin’ but they don’t even know what they want when they go out. They just try things on, look at stuff, and then get upset and cry when the 40 pairs of jeans they tried on don’t fit or don’t look good because they aren’t even thinking about what they specifically want out of a pair of pants. Sometimes it turns out they didn’t even want jeans - they just thought that’s what they should go with because that’s what they saw around.

I’m not gonna stretch this analogy any further. You get it.

We just want women to think about what they want more substantially and what wanting that means.

JoeRMD77 · 2022-10-04T12:25:23+00:00

I think the main messaging is women need to stop being so shallow or they're going to continue in their misery. Biologically, women are supposed to be attracted to more than just looks. Men are the more visual ones.

Plus, women have told men for generations that looks aren't everything.

If women are taking offense to this, then maybe the shoe fits?

I know I had to get more going on in my life to attract women and I never complained that I was being shamed into being a productive member of society lol

Barely-moral · 2022-10-04T13:15:59+00:00

People react to incentive structures. They become what the incentive structure rewards. They put more effort into the things the incentive structure rewards.

Every single decision any human makes creates or reinforces an incentive structure.

If I value something then it is on me to act in a way that provides an incentive to act that way and punished acting in any other way.

You may be thinking that I have a problem with men giving a positive reinforcement when women do things I dislike.

That is not the case.

I have a problem with the incentive structure women (as a generalized mass) create when they choose their partners/hook ups.

Sex and relationships are a positive reinforcement and the fact that women reward the men that put more focus in their looks/charisma rather than the men that put focus on their morals and characters create a horrible incentive structure that ends up in the world we find ourselves in.

I can't provide an incentive for men to be moral that is as strong as the incentive of sex and relationships.

I can't provide a punishment for men if they are immoral that is as strong as the incentive of sex and relationships.

So the only way I can do something about it is providing a punishment/incentive for the women that create the incentive structure men find themselves in.

dbz19_kai · 2022-10-04T13:21:49+00:00

Have whatever standards you want. And we'll have whatever standards we want.

Just don't seethe when we would rather go for younger women and lower N women than you.

Sad_Top1743 · 2022-10-04T13:29:30+00:00

Modern women have an inflated self perception. Many are super entitled.

I don’t care to Shame them but stating those facts is fine. I would personally want to know if I lacked self awareness so it’s a win-win

SpiritualEnema · 2022-10-04T13:36:28+00:00

Red Pill isn’t about women at all, although some red pill men do enjoy pointing out the hypocrisy in women when they see it.

Women tend to conflate SMV and RMV together when they are not the same. A single mom with three young kids can get on tinder and have a line of guys out the door waiting to have sex with her, although her serious options for marriage tend to be much more limited. This inherently makes sense, men with options (the men they want) generally aren’t lining up to raise another man’s kids. This cognitive dissonance is what red pill men find amusing.

FutureBannedAccount2 · 2022-10-04T13:42:09+00:00

Seems more like a rant than a question but You’re conflating 2 different things.

People make fun of trash people not because they want them, but because they want them to know their trash.

But in the case of someone who’s got higher standard than they should (ex. A 30yo, with one kid working at Walmart wanting nothing less than a 6’5 Handsome millionaire) it’s about bringing them to reality

nicethingyoucanthave · 2022-10-04T13:56:37+00:00

I primarily see this behavior from many members of the RP community

You say that, but I notice you don't have any links. You blue pillers NEVER have citations for the things you believe.

Meanwhile, I can just search my own post history and find comments like this one where I point out that I'm not asking women to lower their standards. Or comments like this one where I call hypergamy (that is, women's standards) "a feature, not a bug" and say it's fine.

Women are free to have whatever standards they want ...just like men are.

But here's the thing, if you hear a man whining, "whaaa!!!! woe is me!!! why can't I date a supermodel!!!" then you might gently ask him to consider that his "standards" were unreasonable and maybe that's the source of his frustration.

If you do that, you're not "shaming" him.

Also:

Why are you trying to shame "women" into lowering their standards?

Why the fuck is "women" in quotes??

TheGoldenChampion · 2022-10-04T14:27:39+00:00

Because they should lower their standards... It's that simple. It's not "settling", it's being realistic. And if you're willing to be with someone who isn't super attractive or wealthy or whatever, you might find that those things aren't as important as you thought.

statsfodder · 2022-10-04T14:37:04+00:00

Can we have the whole conversation please? Some context of how it usually gets to that point may answer your question.... (hint: it isn't men's fault)

Where have all the good men gone?

What do you mean?

Well there are men who are not 6ft+, not making 6 figures and do not have more than 6 inches in their pants and they have the sheer audacity to try and talk to me!! I deserve a Chad, a Tyrone, I am a Qweeennnn!

Well you are barely a 5/10 what makes you think a man like that would be interested??

OMFG!!! HOW DARE YOU SHAME ME FOR HAVING STANDARDS!!! ERMAHGERD!! MISOGYNY!!!

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DisasterPeace7 · 2022-10-04T13:37:11+00:00

People are allowed to have whatever standards for a significant other they want, people are also allowed to have fun at their expense if it doesn't work out for them, it's not as if they don't attempt to shame us for our standards either, basically everybody should just do what makes them happy, I did lol

SpiritualEnema · 2022-10-04T13:48:51+00:00

It’s this whole “I know my worth”, “I deserve”, etc talking that’s going on. If you really knew your worth in the relationship market and it was widely accepted by men, then you wouldn’t need to make declarations like this. It has become contagious to the point that most women now believe some form of this statement, while doing nothing to actually make themselves more desirable to the high value men they seek. They conflate a man’s SEXUAL interest in them with his desire for a long term commitment leading to marriage. Common sense should tell you the two are not the same in 2022. The only people who really “aren’t settling” and “know their worth” are high value men, although you’ll never hear us say that garbage.

social_mule · 2022-10-04T14:08:49+00:00

Why is women in quotation marks?

LovesGettingRandomPm · 2022-10-04T14:38:02+00:00

It's a solution to an equally bad problem coming from the other party which is to have such high standards that you think you deserve to be with a member of the royal family or one such equivalent, if no one nudged our insecurity we'd all go for perfection despite not being perfect ourselves, and we need to be made cognizant of the fact that we're not perfect or we'll forgo the perfectly fine opportunities in between it's not necessarily a bad thing UNLESS you are a piece of shit ruining someone else's life in the process!

Everything is fair in love or war applies, if you think you're worth being with someone and that person just needs a nudge to come to the same conclusion it can be a win win for the both of you. It's a shame this doesn't always happen, however even when it fails we learn from that mistake, it's not as disastrous as it appears to be.

hdksndiisn · 2022-10-04T14:46:49+00:00

Some truths I’ve seen so far: 1. Black pill guy saying, “ya obviously I want this so I can get a girlfriend.” Which means, of course men are saying this, it’s not controversial. 2. Older guy saying “by not doing this you’re shooting yourself in the foot.” Which is to say, by promoting sleeping around you’re missing out on having a lasting, loving healthy relationship & your chances for such are diminished the longer you “ride the carousel”. Men generally look for less promiscuous women to be their wives.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned: this is an either/or scenario. Either men or women will have to lower their standards, at this rate, to find a partner. And I think that’s just how it works. Ideally, it should be “preferences” are overlooked for love/relationships/commitment and “standards” are equivocal for men/women, as in a well-to-do, handsome man that stays active physically shouldn’t be told not dating obese women is fat-shaming and neither should a fit yoga teacher swimwear model be expected to date a fat stem nerd. Like should attract like, similar demographic, fitness, wants/hopes/dreams. There shouldn’t be strict standards on uncontrollable’s like height or race for either gender, but barring disease or ailment, things like physical fitness & diet are controllable and thus I feel are appropriate standards to have. If I am someone who goes on backpacking trips for 2 weeks at a time I can’t expect to get along with a woman that eats McDonald’s and a large mountain dew for breakfast, assuming that’s preventative of the lifestyle I live.

I think if everyone got off social media they would find their standards or who they are attracted to drastically changes, or at least would have a better idea not of what the World finds appropriate & attractive but what they do individually.

Maybe one can look at it like women have been telling men for years porn is not representative of “real sex”, and so to expect differently; on the same note men are telling women sleeping with a bunch of guys that won’t commit isn’t actually “empowerment” for most women.

I don’t know how many women I’ve met that regret their promiscuous years and wish “they knew”. Who remain single until their late 30’s holding out for that perfect man like or even better than those they slept with in their 20’s who all settled down with their less promiscuous peers. It’s not that they didn’t want to have children it’s that by the time they settle for a man he’s already had and often raised kids. There’s nothing wrong with preferences or standards on either end and neither man nor woman should be shamed for it.

I get it, you won’t date a short, balding guy like I won’t date a fat trans woman. And that’s ok.

abaxeron · 2022-10-04T15:04:31+00:00

Why are you trying to shame "women" into lowering their standards?

I'm not.

RP guys who practice the "take her down a peg or two" approach with women don't do it to somehow strategize women's lower confidence on a worldwide level. They just believe and follow a simple rule - men lead, women follow. Most women (to them) are so malleable and impressionable that making one of them like you without her even noticing - is not something you should do every day, but something that (according to them) absolutely can be done, and absolutely justifiable if you need to wet your snake without wasting tons of money and effort on it.

I.e. when it is done, it's usually not done for a woman to tolerate you for decades and have your children out of pity.

It's for a quick fuck.

If you think so lowly of these people, you shouldn't even care who they date.

And I don't care.

Make it make sense!

You're welcome.

BigOleGreenTrees · 2022-10-04T15:08:46+00:00

Red pill men think they have completely figured out attraction and that all humans can be objectively rated on a scale of 1 to 10. What's funny is they can't agree on the specifics and then screech about how "she's a 5 when he's an 8!! Women need to looksmatch!!" meanwhile her boyfriend thinks she's a 10.

caption291 · 2022-10-04T15:15:29+00:00

The point of shame is partly to try and hurt someone's ego. Standards are generally tied to your ego because they exist in relation to what you think you're worth.

So if someone shames you into having less of an ego, your standards can change meaning you aren't settling anymore even if you would have been with your old standards.

If you think so lowly of these people, you shouldn't even care who they date.

Society is a thing and in the context of society basically every decision has an indirect impact on others and just because you think lowly of someone doesn't mean you don't want them to improve.

I think very lowly of criminals, but I still want criminals to stop being criminals and contribute to society for both my and their sake. There's no contradiction in those statements.

mib732 · 2022-10-04T15:17:51+00:00

This is a multi-faceted topic. I am definetly purple-pilled, and I think the best solution is to improve yourself to better your chances of getting a mate you want to be with. In the case of RedPilled men...

I think it's because the implications have vast negative psychological effects for men. Considering the fact that:

Particularly in the USA, it is possible to say that society doesn't seem to be sexist against women. This matters indirectly, as the current paradigm is obsessed with giving women more attention in terms of inequalities or possibly things thought of being as oppressive. I am a man who believes in repaying women for their unpaid labor at home. I believe in paid maternity leave as well. So I am not a sexist, because I care about men AND women getting repaid for all their labor, take care of themselves, etc.
Men have sacrificed and done quite alot for women's right (such as universal suffrage).
I would submit that it's possible to say that the current sex/dating market is an unfair deal for men overall. In a social environment that placates women getting maximum support from society, men possibly have to deal with negative effects of lack of touch, possibly not partaking in the health benefits of sex, and of course, possibly suffering from romantic loneliness.

All of this has prevented me from being a Feminist, there is possibly no reciprocation in terms of governmental support for men suffering in this regard. Although there could be something out there, but I am not aware of it.

mydlo96 · 2022-10-04T15:23:53+00:00

I consider myself redpill and I do not think we should shame them for their standards. You can't win their love. You have to become so valuable they will do anything to be with you.

But I also think we should remove as many privileges as we can. Lonely mothers can sustain their lifestyle thanks to the state. Men put more money into the state then women. They think they are independent, they are not. Women should taste some responsibility. Equality is no longer a thing. But that's juat my opinion.

Title	Why are you trying to shame "women" into lowering their standards?
Author	Jupitersjunky
Upvotes	28
Comments	279
Date	October 4, 2022 11:42 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xvcvuv/why_are_you_trying_to_shame_women_into_lowering/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-are-you-trying-to-shame-women-into-lowering.1135142 https://theredarchive.com/post/1135142