Why aren't men more open about their feelings?

YetAnotherCommenter · 2019-08-18T12:55:13+00:00

Because men incur very large costs for talking about their feelings, especially if those feelings don't validate what women and mainstream society generally want to believe.

The way the men's rights movement has been treated makes that pretty clear. As Warren Farrell pointed out, our culture hears the complaining of men as nails on a chalkboard.

When men complain they're seen as either dangerous threats or weak whiners. Especially by women, and by men who engage in (what is IMO the greatest example of performative toxic masculinity) white knighting.

You might not have a problem with men who wear their heart on their sleeve (although to be fair, you may not feel that way about men who express ideas/feelings you find reprehensible and deeply invalidating of your own cherished beliefs, I wouldn't know). Most women do, and so do lots of other men.

The reality is that men are not a united interest group. The competitive hierarchical pack mentality means men can individually benefit from keeping each other down, even if this imposes costs upon third parties. Think of it as an externality: man A humiliates man B in order to gain masculine status above B... in and of itself that's a zero-sum-game transfer, however by reinforcing this dynamic every single other additional man is burdened with additional costs. The result is that men end up constantly fighting among one another and not acting to pursue common interests.

I mean lets look at this whole subreddit. TRP is a prime example of men being open with, and venting their feelings. I have problems with TRP too, but look at the reception it receives. When men's feelings are expressed in any way that makes others distressed or offends the sensibilities or sensitivities of others, people aim to invalidate those feelings as quickly as possible.

Men bear substantial individual costs when they're open about their feelings. Men learn this and internalize this. They know women and other men will penalize them for being open about their feelings.

Barely-moral · 2019-08-18T12:28:48+00:00

Because it doesn't work. Because it causes more harm than the benefits provided.

The problem comes when there's a discussion about "Why don't people take men's issues as serious as women's?" . Well, you can't get help if you don't seek it.

It will not work even if men seek it. Men want to be attractive, men want to fuck. If a man is open about his feelings, I mean truly open and not editing anything that comes out of his mouth then he will no longer be attractive. He will become an incel and his life will be worse for it.

Why would you want an evil manipulator to fix your problems?

Because the "evil manipulator" says to want equality. It is a "got ya", they don't expect anything from the evil manipulator. They are just making a point, they don't care about equality when equality requires to benefit men.

concacanca · 2019-08-18T12:29:43+00:00

Most of us learn that we will be reacted to with cold disinterest or derision over time. I'm sure some guys have mothers or sisters that like to listen to them and others (like me) have a close friend who is happy to play agony aunt. Other than that it's nothing. There is no positive feedback cycle.

Blonsomio · 2019-08-18T12:50:38+00:00

Because nobody cares about men's feelings and well-being. You stop doing it when you realize it's pointless.

zerofeetpersecond · 2019-08-18T15:18:21+00:00

Why aren’t men more open about their feelings?

Men get banned on reddit for saying how they feel because some people are so weak that they are threatened by print on a phone screen that is powered by conflict minerals and unsustainable big energy. If I can get banned from a reddit sub why would I feel empowered to be open and honest in real life!?

Raii-v2 · 2019-08-18T12:35:23+00:00

There’s a saying that if a man is complaining about his problems to in a bar 4 out of 10 men will not care, while the other 6 will be happy he has those issues.

Men talk about their feelings but only when there is no other option. We don’t find catharsis in talking about our feelings because it largely will not help our situation.

Bitching to women doubly doesn’t work because they largely will not understand your perspective. Also they may interpret your oversharing as whining which works against you in creating attraction.

The empathy gap

bonusfruit · 2019-08-19T09:26:41+00:00

That short bagel guy was open about his feelings. Everyone on the incel subreddit is open about their feelings. It's not pretty. No one likes it. In fact, the recent openness from men has lead directly to the worst subgenres of universally hated men in the last decade. Soyboys, cucks, neckbeards, incels, altrighters. Mens emotions often include fear, anger, depression and anxiety. They express them plenty. When people ask why men aren't open about their feelings, they seem to be expecting nothing but mild bubbly joy and occasional tepid blues

[deleted] · 2019-08-18T14:37:47+00:00

Why aren't men more open about their feelings?

No reason to. We mostly have people ignoring our feelings or considering them as a bother (You do it, a lot, go to your own post history if you have any doubt, you do it in this very post). Why the heck would a man open his feelings (without anonymity)?

"Why don't people take men's issues as serious as women's?" . Well, you can't get help if you don't seek it.

We seek it, but pay attention, we don't want to suffer the consequences of showing weaknesses. Thus we use anonymity mediums like reddit or fake accounts. Because of people like you, Lilith, will turn it in our demise.

I have no problem if a guy chooses not place his heart on his sleeve.

We do prefer to solve our own problems but we have no other option you see?

Why would you want an evil manipulator to fix your problems?

Because some men take a while to learn the truth. You are the example. You are attacking those who still seek help.

Also, how is someone going to fix a problem they don't know exists

That is why you don't attack first and ask next, Lilith.

angels-fan · 2019-08-18T18:58:14+00:00

This is a feminist strawman.

Men aren't just sitting there wallowing in their own misery because they are too proud to seek help.

A man that seeks help simply cannot find help!

Do you think all the homeless men with metal issues wouldn't love a chance to get therapy and medication so they could live a relatively normal life? Where would you suggest these men go to get help?

Fuck, we don't even provide help for the military men that suffer from extreme PTSD for fighting for the country that ignores them when they come back.

There is no help for men!

datingapppro · 2019-08-18T14:18:21+00:00

Women are fine with men sharing feelings. If a man shares his emotions and leans on her for emotional support that is a role women are fine playing.

BUT when a man does this with a girl he likes she will no longer place him in the ‘guy I want to have sex with’ bucket. It’s an absolute attraction killer. She is fine giving support and being your friend still, but no she won’t want you in the way men want to be wanted

If it’s a woman you’re married to or dating she will lose respect, and for good reason. The role a man in any successful relationship is to lead it while having the woman feel like she’s still a major equity holder in it. Again women will deny this but I’ve dated feminists, doctors, lawyers , etc they all want to be led but won’t openly admit it. So your role is closer to a boss than a peer. If your boss came to you always concerned about the direction of the company, making profit, etc you’d lose respect quickly and begin looking around. Same for women

Cry when your close family dies and be fine. But if you open up over a job loss, an insecurity, a health concern, etc then you are putting a timeline on your relationship

[deleted] · 2019-08-18T15:11:02+00:00

You’ll see why, just go to any dating forum here in reddit and notice how when a man post a question people shut him down rudely and talk to him as if he was dumb, but when a woman post a question everyone is so nice and open minded. That’s just basically how it goes. In life when a man is asking for help people get pissed because they are expecting us to already know how to do the stuff so we shut down our feelings and don’t ask for help or show vulnerability

Red__Blue · 2019-08-18T12:59:22+00:00

In what way has anything in this sub made you think the concerns of men are taken seriously? The women on here are still angry about that empathy request thread for being unhappy about being a fallback used for money. In what way would I expect to receive a helpful healthy mindset from someone who believes that deep down I’m a violent rapist? That’s the standard in the west. How in earth could anyone who feels in such a way and thinks in such a way possibly do good for the psyche of a man under duress? Where is this qualification to be helpful when given these feelings? What would say you, promise you could do with them?

datingapppro · 2019-08-18T12:37:02+00:00

Not the same man. You are building a strawman here. Terps do not share their feelings with women because they know that women lose attraction when they see vulnerable man. It may not be instant but comes eventually.

Those guys who want to share contents of their hearts to women are usually blue pills, incels or at worst guys who just found the red pill and want to achieve blue pill goals using trp. It never works.

wtknight · 2019-08-18T15:03:45+00:00

Most men inherently come across as whiny when they are open about their feelings because of how we are socialized at a young age about males and females, not to mention that women are usually more innately attracted to self-reliant men and are more likely to think poorly of men who don't come across as self-reliant.

fromhoutxtoyurop · 2019-08-18T12:31:42+00:00

I think it boils down to a lack of male adults to open up to when boys grow up.

Learning how to talk about your emotions is in some ways like learning a new language. Men and women have different emotional experiences on average, which makes it a lot more challenging for female caregivers (teachers etc) to guide young boys in their understanding of their own minds. In the past, young boys/men would start working with other men at a young age, which probably facilitated this process.

In contrast to what a lot of people seem to believe, classical "masculine" philosophies of life such as stoicism do not advocate shutting down your emotions or ignoring them, but understanding their nature and meaning. Openly discussing one's emotions is a natural path to this insight.

I think ideas such as "fragile masculinity" or "toxic masculinity" have the opposite effect. Boys become scared to open up because they're taught that there are monsters inside them which society will punish when spotted.

When it comes to men not seeking out help, I think it both has to do with men generally not worrying enough (low scores on the personality trait neuroticism) and the language of the health industry being a bit more "feminine" in nature.

You tell 1000 guys they need to be "vulnerable" and "dare to open up and ask for help" - most of them won't really feel like that message is intended for them.

You have Jordan Peterson tell the same 1000 guys to "Sort themselves out", "Burn away the deadwood", and "set their houses in perfect order" - suddenly they'll go to the doctor.

Gravel_Roads · 2019-08-18T12:44:03+00:00

You're kinda missing an important step, here. The process doesn't go "Talks about Probs" > "Receives Help".

It's more an "if-then" scenario. IF a man is self-aware enough to recognize he is in a bad emotional place (many don't because they aren't taught to find emotional turmoil unacceptable, so it doesn't occur to them that anything is even wrong, even as they work themselves to an early grave), and IF that man is surrounded by people that are both caring but also pragmatic (too "caring" and you get emotional echo chambers that encourage you to be upset, not to improve), then there might be a benefit to talking.

The problem is, in times of strife men "take action" - if there is no "action" that will alleviate a cause of stress, men don't tend to fare well if they focus on their strife. Inability to solve problems can be traumatic, so to avoid trauma they just don't examine unsolvable problems.

Unfortunately, most of the problems men face (loneliness, isolation, anonymity, social expectation ect) don't really have solutions other than to "spend your whole life trying to find people that care about you". And unfortunately, talking about your problems with new friends too early, or talking about your problems too much, produces the opposite of the desired result, because the flip side is no one wants to be your next emotional tampon, so you have to also have something to provide to the dynamic in exchange.

tl;dr - talking about it doesn't, in and of itself, help much.

RubyWooToo · 2019-08-18T12:46:48+00:00

I think men don’t find talking about their problems to be productive and don’t experience the same catharsis that women do from venting.

Mystery_Tragic · 2019-08-18T12:52:55+00:00

Talking about stuff never achieves anything.

AdmirableNotion · 2019-08-19T00:38:00+00:00

Because when you open up to women you get hurt.

fromhoutxtoyurop · 2019-08-18T13:26:06+00:00

It's quite tough when we live in the perfectionistic society that we do, especially one with so much insecurity, predation and paths to failure (but less to success). Revealing these insecurities to women and others will often drive them away - men aren't supposed to be needy and admit they have problems - so men learn to with-hold it altogether. It's ingrained by society and most parents since childhood.

Moreover, there are men who are reveal too much, and they become an example not to follow.

The real answer is a happy balance of slowly revealing your true weaknesses and rational insecurities that reveal a more human and deeper character about you. That is, with someone you want a longer relationship with.

The problem with the Red Pill is (like the Blue Pill foil), they treat other people as objects instead of as humans, and thus their advice on nearly all Relationships is one of pure selfishness and not one of human understanding. This is why RP relationships rarely last longer than 6 months and why RPers often find out they have few to no friends.

CandleLess · 2019-08-18T13:42:13+00:00

Because it doesn't solve anything and women don't actually want to hear it. If guys talking about thier feelings and insecurities made women want to fuck them every dude in the world would be talking about their feelings all the time

analt223 · 2019-08-18T14:25:10+00:00

Depends on the issue. Talking about feelings related to problems in your life usually is not sexy in the eyea of women. Men want to be fuckable.

[deleted] · 2019-08-18T21:07:35+00:00

However, this same man wants women to help fix the "damage she caused".

Technically, that's not a red pill position. Red pill's is 'enjoy the decline'.

As for the rest of your post, go ask your female friends which men they dated the longest or fucked the most. Then look at their personalities. You'll probably find that a sensitive man better have money to keep her from running for the hills.

You're also missing something important: men do not express their emotions like women. Aside from the fact that it doesn't do much but land you in the friendzone, men would much rather play a game, kick a ball, drink a beer and watch sport to deal with their issues because they are safe 'masculine' spaces where they can deal with their emotions. Women don't understand this.

So when a man does open up, it's not sexy. Maybe a good looking guy can melt your heart with a deep confession, but generally speaking, putting up a status of feeling lonely has the opposite effect of what he wants. This is also the opposite of how men and women work.

When women have a problem, men are (mostly) on hand to fix it. Beta orbiters give hugs, a mechanic fixes a tyre, dad and mom give helpful advice. When a man has a problem, he has to fix it. There are few, if any willing, women who would offer affection or help. If he's lonely, that's just how it is and he has to learn to deal with it.

You'll see this lack of care in subreddits where someone asks for a compliment to feel better and women get like waaaaaay more attention.

Melthengylf · 2019-08-18T21:18:05+00:00

Because most men have lost any faith in humanity and faith that there are people out there that would want to help. They have no hope left.

Most times men are able to talk about their feelings, women get scared, they call men "entitled", they get shit on. So men get scared. And ashamed of not being the happy strong feminist man women would want men to be.

Look, I have been able to open up. I hace close friends, both men and women. Most men don't have that. They can loose their jobs if they express their feelings badly. They are scared.

ItsOverBoyosLDAR · 2019-08-18T21:28:17+00:00

Because they will be accused of being a phaggot, a cuck or a little beta bitch.

SmashBrosGuys2933 · 2019-08-19T00:19:42+00:00

Because men are supposed to be figureheads and authoritative and opening up about our emotions makes us appear neither of those and what you might call a "beta male". I have had times in my life when my emotions just bubble over because I never express them and just keep them lingering in my mind without ever acknowledging them.

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rus9384 · 2019-08-18T12:31:26+00:00

because women will just seek to hurt him.

No. Terps claim because women will be repulsed by that, and will leave him.

Also, I guess terps avoid showing feelings as in looking weak, not being commanding.

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-08-18T12:57:28+00:00

This is more of a class issue in my opinion. It’s like asking why more men aren’t more attuned to fashion and grooming.

Upper class men are more socially conditioned, and therefore share their feelings and dress well. It’s been that way since a very long time.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/a5ZRI_D3PGg/hqdefault.jpg

It’s the lack of social conditioning that makes men closed off and aggressive. I think it’s men’s natural state to be that way. Any time we have seen society collapse, men have raped, pillaged and murdered. This would suggest that society makes men LESS aggressive, not more.

The stoic man needs to be closed off and aggressive sans society. A more isolated living requires self-preservation and stoicism.

It’s in his best interest and the interest of his family to be stoic and self-sacrificing, almost to a fault.

ReachForTheSky_ · 2019-08-18T13:28:01+00:00

I think there's similarities between men 'missing the signals' when a woman is interested and women doing the same when a man is feeling a certain way. Women, from a biological and societal perspective, are the prize which men must pursue and win over. Men, from the same perspective, have to be strong, upright, and weather the storm to show that they are capable of warding off competitors and protecting partner and offspring.

Also, though I haven't been in this situation myself, I've seen many men describe how opening up and showing weakness has made them less attractive to their partner. I don't believe for a moment that all women are like that, but it is anathema to the biological male sex to show weakness; it goes against nature. It's like asking why more women don't approach men and ask them out. With the gradual dismantlement of 'traditional' female roles and behaviours, we might see something similar with men. This process can easily go too far and end up disappointing both parties, but that's another subject.

RandomAttackHelpMe · 2019-08-18T13:42:47+00:00

Well, speaking from experience, I did that once, and she left me. Granted, I spilled out my insecurities to her, had I just been smarter and kept my mouth shut and tried to appreciate things, and I inadvertently made her feel not good enough, which wasn't my intent, she left me. Had I been smarter, it probably would have went better. Also, this was the first girl I slept with, and while I wasn't clingy per se, I had a more romantic sense about things.

I had major insecurities, some of which still prevail today although I am trying to get a handle on it, meds and therapy help but there is still much work to do I feel. So yeah, that is probably why most guys have a problem with this. You can go on and on about "Toxic masculinity", which while I can see what the problem is, believe me I can, whining about it doesn't help. and there is a thing to be said for, not even in terms of male/female relations, social relations, but keeping your mouth shut so the other person either doesn't use things against you or doesn't have a temper tantrum.

Also this whole red pill thing, don't you get it? I don't agree with them on everything, but I don't see how you can't see why they have these behavioral observations as I put it. Yeah, these guys have been hurt, were screwed/fucked over bad, which if you look at the core of a lot of this, that is the case, they had no one to help them, no one to look out for them and they found this. Makes sense to me. And no one else wanted to hear them out or help them, and this is what happens.

And as for the fixing the damage she caused, this is part of the little game everyone plays.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-08-18T14:04:55+00:00

A lot of times “how you’re feeling” isn’t really relevant to anything it’s just a bullshit internal subjective problem that burdens others

Sometimes it is more productive to just shut that down

CamoWoobie10000 · 2019-08-18T15:40:08+00:00

If you need to be open to someone you should get a therapist. There is little good in talking to a woman about it, especially if you have romantic interest in her.

UTC24 · 2019-08-18T16:00:13+00:00

I have no problem opening up my feelings. I happen to be one of those highly sensitive person, a piece of music can bring me up to tears. The important thing to remember as a man is never to be embroiled into your feelings for too long. At the end of the day you're supposed to be the one who is rational and logic and carry the burden of getting things done. Not taking yourself too seriously certainly helps.

blackedoutfast · 2019-08-18T20:52:15+00:00

because it only has negative consequences for men. everyone says they want to hear it, but in reality no one really wants to hear it.

but what DOES happen is that people will see you as weaker, damaged, unattractive, etc.

officerkondo · 2019-08-19T16:17:50+00:00

Because we learn that in general (not always, but often enough) that she doesn't care about how we feel. She cares about how our feelings make her feel. And if our feelings should happen to make her feel bad, she will inform that our feelings are incorrect and we shouldn't feel that way.

This was my ex to a T. I am very lucky to have a wife and girlfriend who are not this way and actually care about my emotions.

NeedingAdvice86 · 2019-08-19T17:00:13+00:00

Because guys learn that it does NOT resolve anything and is extremely unattractive to friends, associates, family and lovers.

And to be frank...when the shit hits the fan, men are expected to handle whatever the fuck is going on, not lose their head in drama and fits of emotion. For all the talk of toxic masculinity, in just the last week, the media of the US skipped right over the reality that in Dayton and Philadelphia, MEN heard gunfire, grabbed their guns, and ran\rushed into mortal danger to resolve the issue at the risk of their lives Hell the ones in Philly ran into the line of fire even as the trash in that neighborhood were screaming, taunting and throwing shit on them...these lowlife shits held protest this weekend demanding release of the criminal.

It is such a natural expectation of those men that the usual suspects of far left politicians skipped right over the behavior to start railing against the decidedly mentally ill losers who were shooting up their communities and demanding that something be done about men.

tia-now · 2019-08-18T16:46:40+00:00

Well, if we're playing around with generalities and dichotomies ...

IME most women, no matter how 'enlightened', are attracted to emotionally strong men, and repulsed (or at least less attracted to) a vulnerable or even conflicted man.

For a lot of men, depression looks like a lack of ambition or motivation, and the women in their lives should have enough empathy and awareness to see it for what it is, but again IME they just get less attracted to the man and complain to their friends about him.

The only exception I can think of is the tortured artist / bad boy type, but in those cases they at least want to see passion and visible internal struggle. And after the age of 30 or so, both sides are less likely to pull off those roles.

LotBuilder · 2019-08-18T23:36:32+00:00

Because it doesn’t get us anywhere. If it were helpful we would do it. Nothing kills a woman sex drive more than an emotional man.

tidderfodnimpot · 2019-08-18T12:31:52+00:00

it depends

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-08-18T15:36:57+00:00

There is nothing to talk about.

reluctantly_red · 2019-08-18T17:03:32+00:00

Men generally can't seek help from females unless she's a paid therapist. They have to fix their shit on their own.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2019-08-19T16:53:17+00:00

men are open about their feelings all the time, actually. it is a common misconception among many women.

when he kills a woman for rejecting him, that's him being open about his emotions. no holds barred.

when he punches a wall in sheer rage, that's him being open about his emotions. no holds barred.

when he intimidates a woman into being with him and uses various tactics and coercion, that's him expression his retarded emotions.

when he kills a pedestrian in a fit of road rage (men are notorious ragedrivers) that is emotion in its purest form.

when men congregate on manure sphere to bitch about women and devise plans to abuse them that's men pouring out all their emotions on screen.

men show their emotions all the time, you just have to pay attention.

Comms · 2019-08-21T23:19:07+00:00

Patriarchy. Kids are free with expressing emotions and then they’re taught not to if they’re male because “blah blah boys don’t cry blah blah” and you get a bunch of emotionally stunted low eq dummies talking about red and blue pills.

firebeardlifter · 2019-08-24T08:12:38+00:00

This may be an unpopular opinion, but men are meant to be strong. And part of being strong is carry your own weight and burdens, not putting it on others. Plus I think there’s a huge difference between talking about a problem, and using someone as an emotional dumpster. I have no problem talking to someone about an issue, but I’ll be dammned if I expect them to sit their and listen to me every time I get stressed or face challenges. Everyone has problems that’s life.

FBI-my-guy · 2019-09-01T21:36:37+00:00

I believe it has something to do with the notions of “Men shouldn’t cry” and “Men should get over physical/mental trauma” that seems to be more common nowadays

praisethesun799 · 2019-08-19T04:11:27+00:00

The thing is, I'm not open with them because I don't have the need to do it. I never want or need to talk about what I'm feeling. I just don't see the point . I'm usually happy anyways, otherwise feelings like frustration , anger or whatever else are quickly gone , I just have a drink and/or have some great sex and all the problems are gone. No talking needed lol

Though seeing some threads on here I can see that's not the case for many men, especially those who claim to be the rational logic science types , they're always the most emotional ones lol

statusincorporated · 2019-08-19T16:03:57+00:00

Because most men are cowards.

*disclaimer: i'm using alpha and beta as symbols for character traits here...mainly courage vs. cowardice

Once again, TRP reveals itself as an ironically BETA MALE philosophy....it's really like what a beta imagines an alpha to be, because the beta is coming from a fear-based mindset and wants a security blanket.

an alpha is never afraid to be himself and to let everyone know who he is in that moment.

letting his flaws be revealed to the world robs the world of a chance to use his flaws against him. only when someone lives in denial or fear of their flaws do they give other people power.

remember...the ultimate alpha pose is contrapposto --- chest EXPOSED, hands akimbo. it isn't "i'm gonna dominate," it's "bring it the fuck on."

Title	Why aren't men more open about their feelings?
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	14
Comments	141
Date	August 18, 2019 12:13 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/cs0gyx/why_arent_men_more_open_about_their_feelings/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-arent-men-more-open-about-their-feelings.254395 https://theredarchive.com/post/254395