Why do people find Red Pill women to be bad?

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Yes. There is. There is a whole RP-O-Sphere and a wider Man-O-Sphere that many redditors don't know about. Much of that deals in the kind of advice you are seeking.

There are two aspects you are asking about. Attracting a high quality woman, and retaining and enjoying an LTR in a good relationship.

For the attraction part, I'd certainly recommend the book of pook. It does cover plate spinning, and that lifestyle, but it's central message of be the prize and how to be the prize is what you need to attract those high quality women. The traits you have to develop for that, and for plates, are the same. You just use them differently.

Moving on into married game and relationship RP.... There is a lot of good advice, ranging from the hardcore red end of the spectrum at /r/marriedredpill itself (usually dealing with guys in poor situations and already married) to other sites offering less hard core advice.

Athol Kay's forum at MMSL Forums is a mixed sex relationship RP forum out at the extreme "soft red" extreme. MMSLP Athol Kay's book, is one of the core items of relationship RP, and it's also a great resource for the kind of "warm alpha" and "high beta" stuff you want. If you're going to shell out $10 or so, this is the one you want and it's worth the cash. Trust me. There is also AKs blog at the links above, which is a great resource for this game.

There are also extremely useful blogs, that take a direct view on being a good husband. Dalrocks blog, for example, deals with RP Christian Husbands, those who cannot divorce, as a core demographic. As such a lot of the game discussed there is focussed more on being a fantastic husband and retaining that one shot. It's also free of classic dread game (not available to religious guys) for whom Dalrocks has developed an alternative in "headship game" using game that aligns with the Christian guys advantages.

Hell, you could just check out The Art Of Manliness out in the wider manosphere... More on just classic man stuff, that helps develop that good husband stuff. How to be a man, and have fun, but not an RP blog.

All this is out there. TRP is the very offensive tip of a somewhat less offensive iceberg.

And if you want to talk about any of that we chat here, or ding my username from anywhere.

There is lots of RP about being a fantastic husband too,

Because, ya know, it turns out being a man, and being a fantastic husband, gets you laid. So we do that too, but in relationship RP. Not on the singles sites.

And everyone will tell you not to get married. Because that IS good advice. But like all our advice you decide whether to take it or not.

RP allows you to take whatever you want to use. That's up to you. We try and outline what works. You pick from that what you're comfortable with, the rest you leave for others.

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[–]planejane 14 points14 points14 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're also assuming a very narrow definition of RPW.

I'm RP in the sense that I think a lot of what RP holds true about the differences in men and women and their respective goals is pretty valid. I don't expect a relationship, I don't hold anybody else responsible for my happiness, and I think a lot of feminism is bloated BS.

I'm also quite happily single for the time being, working on my second college degree, and plan on going active-duty in the military when I finish it (I'm a reservist right now). I'm financially self-sufficient, and my n>0. I've shot automatic rifles, thrown live grenades, stunk of sweat and dirt, and drive semi trucks on my weekends at drill.

I don't feel the pressing desire to find a prince charming, if such a thing even exists, and I've made sure to set myself up in a way that will provide a fulfilling and exciting life regardless of finding a man/having kids, although I'd like that too, if it happens.

I like doing my hair and wearing cute clothes. I like having a clean apartment and spend way too much time reading worthless gossip magazines. I'm not submissive, I'm not extraordinarily feminine, I'm not delicate and I have no desire to be.

And the RPW I've chatted with don't seem to mind that.

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Unless ya'll don't have low n-counts, dress modestly, and cater to your husband's every needs?

Yeah, that would pretty much be the opposite of my wife, who has always held RP views (more so than I, probably, but she just calls them "reality", not "RP").

Yet she finds the RPW sub helpful as a way to develop her "girl game." She is self-aware enough to realize that she can, at times, be overly demanding, overly independent, overly controlling/domineering, overly "strong/invulnerable", overly "masculine", and in other ways not being a complementary partner. She realizes that those ways of being have an impact on the quality of her relationships and marriage, and appreciates that RPW presents some ideas for how to be a better partner (gasp! Imagine a woman being concerned about how she is able to please and support her man! Oh, the humanity!) and manage her relationships/marriage more effectively such that both sides get what they want out of it.

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The problem with RPW from a feminist POV is obvious, you are putting too much power over your life into someone else's hands which is clearly unfavorable. But some women want to do that anyway, so for them RPW makes perfect sense.

I think one of the problems is that even though feminists don't want to live the lifestyle of the RPW they both desire the same men which gives those males too much power over selection. So they will just shame you with shit like "if you like submissive girls you are insecure", RPW and feminists compete with each other by attacking males rather than each other.

It would make more sense if RPW dated confident leaders and Feminists dated timid, shy males who have trouble with the responsibility of decision making. (I know not all feminists are dominant, but its the stereotypical type im referring too)

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Traditional gender roles exist because they are BASED ON BIOLOGY.

Arguably so does kink.

However, I don't see the femsub variety of BDSM as kink. Because it is the mainstream. My own experience with many perfectly ordinary heterosexual women told me in advance what most people had to find out by watching Fifty Shades of Estrogen become a cultural phenomenon:

The majority of normal, psychologically healthy heterosexual women fantasize about, and get sexual excitement and pleasure from, being dominated by a powerful male.

Even the ones who aren't so psychologically healthy aren't immune.

A woman who isn't a little turned on by femsub BDSM has something wrong with her. She either:

Hates men.
Fears men.
Has been trained to excessive prudishness, and thus is repelled by the idea of it being "kink".

Now, RPW subscribers are right to react with contempt to the idea that RPW is BDSM. They don't wish to be dismissed and a fetish phenomenon, and they should not be.

Because RPW isn't a variety of BDSM. BDSM is a variety of RPW.

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[–]lurfly 4 points4 points4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The majority of normal, psychologically healthy heterosexual women fantasize about, and get sexual excitement and pleasure from, being dominated by a powerful male.

To be fair, this is completely confined to sexual encounters for many women. It is not extrapolated into an entire overly submissive lifestyle.

A woman who isn't a little turned on by femsub BDSM has something wrong with her.

I don't know about this one. I can totally see how domination could just not be someones cup of tea, despite many people enjoying it. I also think there are lots of people who have this fantasy and get extremely turned on by it, but who do not want to experience it IRL. Or who would only want to experience a watered down mild version of the fantasy. I have one such fantasy that I think might end my relationship if it actually happened....

[–]WhisperSecretly a Talking Dog1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

To be fair, this is completely confined to sexual encounters for many women. It is not extrapolated into an entire overly submissive lifestyle.

Indeed this is the case. However, a lot of them would be happier if it were.

They don't always so much experience themselves as wanting to be led, controlled, dominated, etc, so much as they keep their overt submission in the bedroom, and tacitly defer to their boyfriend or husband in their everyday lives, because they think overt submission would be embarrassing or mean they were "sick".

They are not usually repulsed by the idea of submission, but they are repulsed by the idea of the social embarrassment, by the idea of what others would think, and by the fear that those others might be right that there was something "wrong" with them.

As a result, the ones who overtly submit are the ones whose submissive urges are so strong that that they can't ignore them, or suppress them. All healthy women like this, but some of them need it like they need love, or oxygen.

The funny thing is, after you've slept with enough women, and had them really open up to you, you get a really sad picture... imagine female society as a group of women, sitting around in a circle, all agreeing in loud voices over and over again they hate ice cream, and that people who love it are sick deviants. Then they go home, have two scoops of rocky road, and cry... because they are so ashamed, and what would the others think? Meanwhile, the others are doing the exact same thing.

Yes, TRP and RPW are a bit BDSM-ish. But that's because BDSM is the fetishization of a healthy, normal relationship, in a culture where healthy, normal relationships are discouraged.

Women deprived of a slow, steady drip feed of male leadership and control will often build up a "hunger" which leads them to binge on fast doses of super-intense male domination. While this isn't inherently unhealthy (unless she goes so far as push men to physically injure her), she'd probably be better off submitting in her everyday life, even if this didn't make the desire for beatings or humiliation go away (because then they would simply be a sexual enhancement, rather than a deep inner need).

One of the hardest parts of the red pill for people to get past is the notion that women are instinctively submissive to men, and that it is right, natural, healthy for them to be so. The evidence of this is all around us, and anyone can see it, but they are terrified of the implications. They've been convinced that submission == weakness, control == abuse, and to dominate == to hold in contempt.

None of these is true. Feminists invented this idea of "the Patriarchy" (capital P) to explain the embarrassing fact that women spent all of human history submitting to men. So they told themselves this fairy tale where they were the first generation with the courage to stand up to the evil overpowering control machine. This, of course, is bullshit. Women submitted because they liked it... both in the kinky-sex sense, and in the makes-my-life-a-lot-easier sense.

The originators of feminism weren't the first generation tough enough to stand up to men... they were the first generation dumb enough to mistake their fur-lined sex-shoppe handcuffs for southern-road-gang leg irons.

I have one such fantasy that I think might end my relationship if it actually happened....

Unless it's physically impossible or actually fatal, I think you'd be surprised. People are a good deal kinkier than they let on.

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The 'feminists/progressives/egalitarians/whatever are just denying biology' thing is kind of bullshit, though.

It isn't denying biology. Biology never 'intended' women or men to be anything, and biology doesn't care about masculine and feminine. Animals develop some extra non-genital stuff based around the female half carries babies/male half has semen reproductive distinction. But animals, humans in particular, are massively varied in order to be adaptable. Very few animals have a situation where for example the females are completely unable to hunt/gather food, because it made more sense for the female animals to concentrate on looking after the babies while the male animals did the food bit. Because then if the male is killed or can't do that for whatever reason, the female and babies would be immediately and completely fucked, and that group would just die out pretty quickly. It might be good for there to be certain physical and psychological aspects based on sexual selection, but it also makes sense for each individual animal to be as capable and adaptable as possible - sexual selection be damned.

You can't automatically apply that to human psychology and human life, for various reasons. But the fact that all the 'traits' that seem to group around sex are just that - vague groupings rather than, even nearly, hard and fast distinctions - seem to imply that humans are specifically varied in their ability to adapt and fit to certain roles. What makes most sense for happiness (not an evolutionary concept, but one we hold dear and seem to base all this around) and survival does not require those variations to apply the same in situation x as they do in situation y. For this - and various other philosophical reasons - to socially enforce prescriptions about how individuals or groups 'should' be based on biological sex seems entirely counter-productive.

I'm totally fine with the way that RPW or any person wants to live their life and conduct their relationships. If someone gets happiness and fulfillment from focussing on wearing pretty dresses and cooking dinner for their family, and they're presented with a situation where they can focus on that which is cool with all others involved, then good for them. It's the part where they insist that if other people with the same genitals don't live exactly the same way, they're lying to themselves about being happy and turning off all the people with the other set of genitals, that I call bullshit on.

I really like doing things for my boyfriend - cooking him dinner, bringing him a drink from the fridge, making sure he is OK and feels loved and supported. It makes me happy to do that. Funnily enough it is a trait I quite clearly get from my father. He is exactly the same. He isn't a 'feminine' guy, he generally fits into the social idea of what a 'man' should be like, he is confident and stands up for himself. But the way he shows and experiences love is to do the little and big things people he cares about want and get enjoyment from making them happy (sometimes to the point of it being irritating - "No Dad. I DON'T want another cup of tea. Just as I didn't 5 minutes ago. Chill." haha).
So when people ask me why I can't just accept that I like to 'look after' my boyfriend because I'm a woman and women should admit they love that, I'm just holding onto a lie that feminism sold me and it's making me miserable, all I can think is how it's a trait I quite obviously inherited from a (most people would describe as masculine/'alpha') man.

Therefore anyone telling me they are the gatekeepers of biological truth and they've decided I should do x/y/z to be happy gets me taking a quick look around at actual social reality and a "fuck you".

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Title	Why do people find Red Pill women to be bad?
Author	AmericanHistoryAFBB
Upvotes	11
Comments	232
Date	November 20, 2015 4:08 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3tiyxe/why_do_people_find_red_pill_women_to_be_bad/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-people-find-red-pill-women-to-be-bad.278348 https://theredarchive.com/post/278348