Why do some people criticize toxic masculinity, but still use "virgin" as an insult?

PPD-Angel · 2020-02-06T13:07:46+00:00

No rants. Removed.

Joey_Lopez · 2020-02-06T04:21:22+00:00

You think they are trying to be logical? They just hate men.

acmemetalworks · 2020-02-06T07:50:14+00:00

[deleted]

Fichek · 2020-02-06T05:02:00+00:00

People use harsh words to insult people. For example people still use "retarded" but would never say that to an actual mentally retarded person. "Autistic" is a common insult as well but most would consider it cruel to an actual autistic person. It's a lack of thinking skills.

CHAD_TDK · 2020-02-06T04:29:53+00:00

There are toxic people in the world, and that's a fact.

Some are male, some are female; still toxic people.

If we want to specify some as "Toxic Masculinity" then we also need to talk about "Toxic Femininity"; people who don't believe that "Toxic Femininity" exists and only want to talk about "Toxic Masculinity" are Sexist Toxic People and they should be silenced and ignored.

acron5n5 · 2020-02-06T08:38:02+00:00

Hypocrisy.

Many women indeed understand toxic masculinity is a huge problem but they cannot stop lusting after those who display it nor could they stop hating those who lack it and male virgins are usually the epitome of lack of traditional masculinity traits.

If we're deadly honest, men have same issue, although it's not so dramatic. Everyone knows bitches are bad yet men romantically pursue and marry them. Am sure these are same man who pontificate you must go after the shy girl type.

JewelM419 · 2020-02-06T06:06:25+00:00

“Virgin” and “incel” are very different in this context. Incels are defined by their bitterness and hatred of women, not just their virgin status.

PrincepsOmni · 2020-02-06T05:43:44+00:00

Because of hypocrisy.

Like how women claim to the strong, free and liberated yet will accuse each other of sleeping around. Modern ideology meets biological reality.

Here's the reality"

Most men will, given the opportunity have sex with a wide range of women.
Most women will not have sex with a wide range of men though.

A man with multiple women who want to pair with him (dating lots of women, multiple wives or concubines etc) means he is a differentiated product that is sought after. Thus, calling a man a virgin is an insult - she's saying no one wants him, not even one woman. Women like to be with a man other women want - ask any honest woman (they don't want him actually sleeping with them though).

A woman sleeping with multiple men means she is marketing to a huge market and 'selling' at a low cost. Hence why calling a woman a whore or slut is insulting as it says shs'e so low value she'll sleep with anyone and isn't able to 'lock down' a decent mate. It's also why most men are repulsed by women with high notch counts...

Biology is really sexist.

OmarsDamnSpoon · 2020-02-06T05:47:32+00:00

Because you're talking about two different groups. Pretty sure you won't find many people against nazis but also say, "fuck those jews, though, for real."

Female_urinary_maze · 2020-02-06T07:50:57+00:00

A lot of people just aren't very intelligent and don't think things through. Additionally some others are just fucking toxic and don't even care weather what they're saying makes any sense.

vicistvic · 2020-02-06T08:10:31+00:00

The answer is not simple. I believe that men willingly refusing to have sex receive disdain from sexually active women because they are jealous of the men for being virgins and displaying real power and strength. These women could even argue men willingly staying virginal are displaying a form of toxic masculinity such is the warped logic.

Furthermore, women openly speak of their unattached sexual partners to be out of their lives at their behest. They also disfavour such men for committed monogamous setting which indicates their subconscious biological imperative and desire to eventually mate with a chaste man.

Women can find logic in sexual illiberal ideals, but that involves rejection of the popular culture. Women's popular movements have been by design of external influences and they are not female.

beto_747 · 2020-02-06T08:11:00+00:00

Because they are full of shit

CatchPhraze · 2020-02-06T05:55:47+00:00

Big difference between "You're so flawed no human being is going to put up with you." like calling someone an incel or virgin and "You don't constantly slay pussy so your trash"

Woman aren't thinking like men when they use those insults. Being told your not being a slut is never a negative to us. Being told you're such a shitty human being that nobody want's to be in your company is an insult. It's not that he's not a "real man" is that hes a "Shitty person"

Ordinary-West · 2020-02-06T05:08:37+00:00

Toxic masculinity is in itself a shaming tactics just as "virgin". That's why those people use both of these words/sentences. They want to suppress men.

beetlejuicer__ · 2020-02-06T04:20:05+00:00

Honestly I see more dudes complain about twitter feminists complaining about toxic masculinity, than I see twitter feminists actually complain about toxic masculinity.

TheSnowyPlover · 2020-02-06T06:10:01+00:00

As a man you’re either a draft animal or you’re breeding stock—This implies two things:

That women promote the aspects of masculinity that are beneficial to them and shame the ones that aren’t
You’re expected to know your place and stay in it. A creep and a stud can say the same thing and exhibit the same behavior, but the difference is how sexy each one is in the eyes of women

Sir_manalot · 2020-02-06T05:13:37+00:00

Toxic masculinity is a term women created to avoid taking responsibility for creating a population of disappointing beta males.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2020-02-06T04:26:22+00:00

"Girls" dgaf about "toxic masculinity"

LillthOfBabylon · 2020-02-06T04:58:26+00:00

incel (but perhaps not actually showing incels traits or saying anything an incel would say)

Context matters.

But some of these people are the same people who say "toxic masculinity" is bad

Yeah. Teaching men that their worth comes from sex is stupid. Incels are hated because they're assholes due to their virginity. If anything, Incels come from toxic masculinity.

9978546982156 · 2020-02-06T06:03:03+00:00

Because men are hated.

Women have a deep, profound disgust for virgin men. Women control the societal narrative on morality and value, so virgin men are basically cattle.

The whole incel being used as insult is typical internet white knighting. They'll turn around and try to convince men that being a virgin is not a big deal and that sex isn't important. It's a lie, obviously.

What people call toxic masculinity is just not being a doormat for society to walk on. Women are attracted to "toxic masculinity" but don't say it out loud.

bunker_man · 2020-02-06T04:39:12+00:00

Women prop up toxic masculinity more than men do.

limbojunkie · 2020-02-06T07:13:08+00:00

People who accuse men of toxic masculinity are the same who call other men incels: Just to insult men.

femmefatale2323 · 2020-02-06T07:53:23+00:00

Men have inherent physical dominance over women due to nature, therefore women want social dominance to level the playing field.

saltinado · 2020-02-06T11:06:30+00:00

Yes and it's the shittiest. Virgin shaming men is the worst. Also small dick shaming, I feel it's similar.

2020-02-06T12:21:42+00:00

Girls: can get sex at the drop of a hat off any simp

Guys: have to try and work for sex, so if you're a virgin you're a failure that can't talk to women

acmemetalworks · 2020-02-06T12:21:50+00:00

Total lack of self awareness. They are the same people that rage if they see an incident of "Body Shaming" then call a guy a needle dick.

The_Mole_Dizzle · 2020-02-06T05:16:57+00:00

girls generally have the pussy pass to say whatever they want

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leftleafthirdbranch · 2020-02-06T06:38:19+00:00

This applies more to real life, but....the more cynical part of me would be inclined to say that they are primarily concerned (subconsciously or not) with how toxic masculinity negatively affects THEM rather than the males themselves (toxic masculinity may encourage a guy to reveal intimate details about his sexual activity, compromising the status of girls he had sex with, or to be emotionally repressed). Additionally, By lampooning toxic masculinity, feminists also attempt to appeal to non-genderspecific values to gain support, since feminism is only truly effective when both genders speak up.

So "virgin" indicates inexperience with women and thus may imply a natural ineptitude with women in the insulting context (insinutating there is something unattractive about them) , and "incel" indicates a tendency to objectify women. I'd say the first one is a hell of a lot more objectifying than the second one, to be honest.

So basically, because the role of women is not emphasized in toxic masculinity, women do not realize how their words may contribute to the promotion of toxic masculinity.

I'm not very familiar with the social dynamics of teenage guys, though, so anybody has anything to chip in about that I'd love to hear it.

Soylent_X · 2020-02-06T07:39:29+00:00

100dylan99 · 2020-02-06T12:14:23+00:00

Everyone in this world is hypocritical at times
There are multiple people on the internet

There you go, OP.

Wallstreet3 · 2020-02-06T12:18:28+00:00

Beecause people are cruel, callous and malicious. Both men and women.

If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all has been replaced by vomit forth all you malice.

hippiefromolema · 2020-02-06T06:00:41+00:00

Generally the people who shame virginity are not the same ones who complain about male virgins. It’s not hypocrisy when two different and opposed people/groups are doing it.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-02-06T05:36:59+00:00

I don’t think the same people are doing both. One group is criticizing toxic masculinity while the other is virgin-shaming.

I’d imagine that if any are actually doing both, they view male virginity as an objective sign of “not being a real man.”

“Only real men get laid, bro.”

jenovajunkie · 2020-02-06T06:31:42+00:00

Because have a lot of anxiety and I feel pressure to start boning girls (because I am 33), I don't know how to initiate sex.

Thus, I get called gay or an Intel, by women, who also find me being a virgin pitiful; as if I lack some sort of skill to obtain sex from a female, that I should have by now.

I am viewed not as a man, but a 16 year old boy. I am fucking 33, and I am losing the will for desire to even bother with sex because women are so manipulative.

ChadsCumDumpster · 2020-02-06T10:16:39+00:00

I'll only use virgin or incel as an insult if a guy is a misogynist and thinks it's okay to call women "sluts". There's nothing wrong with giving someone a taste of their own medicine.

ThorLives · 2020-02-06T05:35:23+00:00

[removed]

Rajan_92 · 2020-02-06T06:12:27+00:00

Incel is an ad hominem. It's their cognitive dissonance that makes them use such words. If it's acceptable to shame a man, it's acceptable to call women sluts, thots and hoes.

createweirdstories · 2020-02-06T04:46:53+00:00

I've always thought that too.

wateroclock · 2020-02-06T06:23:53+00:00

Because women don't have better insults. Women are lame, deal with it.

poppy_blu · 2020-02-06T10:28:06+00:00

When most people here refer to “incels” they’re talking specifically about the group of whiny, entitled, angry men spreading their misogyny across the Internet. It’s not a swipe at men who are celibate.

C0mpL1c1t · 2020-02-06T12:03:41+00:00

Those “women” are likely “girls”. Adolescents are fairly unilaterally insufferable.

RandomAttackHelpMe · 2020-02-06T06:11:12+00:00

These people are in denial and don't know how to handle or help the situation. Yes, technically, you shouldn't base your worth on how many people you have slept with, it's a nice idea, but the sort of collected and shared and experiences and reality of a good majority of people, and yes, mostly men if we're being honest here, tells us much differently.

Well, what do you think happens when you have a change in cultural values and a shift from traditions? I'm not even talking religious fundamentalism stuff. I mean a more so realistic social agreement of appreciation, trust, and respect. You replace that with an almost non-stop sense of I'm going to get as much as I can and want with no limits and no one stopping me cause I am just either greedy or entitled enough to do it. Mixed with lax social feelings and influence on such casual enough relationships, and yes, what people do in the privacy of their own home and lives is their business, however, when you kind of can't keep it to yourself or try to make it everyone else's problem, you're crossing a certain limit most people have.

Like it's one thing if well, you got the main chick and well, a side chick or two, I can see the problem(s) with that but let's not deny anything. And then on top of that, you just want more and more. And/or then if you're one of said side chicks, well you go and complain about where's the good guys etc? Again, why do you think mra and mgtow is a thing? Where do you think most of these guys are coming from?

Those who throw out "virgin", "bitter angry incel loner loser" as casual insults, some of them mean it, some of them are trying to hurt others, for most of them though, and let's not kid ourselves, this is political.

To those who throw out such terms, they see these bitter angry dewdz!!!! as the reason/fault as to why Senor El Trumpo is los presidente. They're not totally wrong, however, this whole altright/redpill/mra thing was going on as clear as fucking day in front of them. It's not their fault if they say and state as clear as day, which btw, happened on here, reddit, when the altright forum was still on here.

Banning them was one of the dumbest fucking things they could have done, I do not identify as such, but when you have a movement with the influence they have,controversies and all, and they are stating what they will do, elect Trump, and you have that as a resource and then ban them over some hurt fucking feelings bullshit, is beyond fucking dumb.

Of course they are contradicting themselves. Think they give a fuck? I'm not even this like arch conservative type, but to them, it's hurting Trump and the base, when the focus should be on winning elections.

I've said it before and I will say it again, the start of all of this was Elliot Rodger. Yes, he had some problems and needed help he clearly was not getting. Thing is, he was posting the videos saying what he was going to do. Now I know the internet/social media is vast and wide, but when you have someone stating they are going to do something like that, and everyone is so fucking apathetic and self absorbed to where no one does anything? Something ain't right there.

I mean, when you have something like that happen, he pretty much was the penultimate boogeyman for the ultra pc leftists who again, knew this whole redpill mra thing was happening as clear as day in front of them, yet were still in denial somehow, and the amount of well, lonely dudes who could relate, when you have it on that scale, something needs to change.

As for the whole toxic thing, yes, there are shitty people whom need to be be and are better off being told to fuck off, but when people are in denial of such, like seriously?

Title	Why do some people criticize toxic masculinity, but still use "virgin" as an insult?
Author	SDW137
Upvotes	100
Comments	187
Date	February 6, 2020 4:18 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	/r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-some-people-criticize-toxic-masculinity-but.330862 https://theredarchive.com/post/330862
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ezmo5b/why_do_some_people_criticize_toxic_masculinity/