Why do you think women withhold sex from their husbands?

Wolfwoodd · 2014-03-25T20:20:04+00:00

Easy, the women lose attraction for their men. After several years with the same person, the endorphins just don't fire like they used to. At that point, maintaining a healthy sex life takes effort.. from both parties.

VB_sucky · 2014-03-25T21:28:35+00:00

But moreover, isn't sex fun? Why would anyone forgo it?

I can only give you perspective on why I've withheld sex at times (being a guy). There is a tremendous amount of pressure put on guys to "perform" well all the time in bed. Just that word alone is enough to make anyone uncomfortable. Makes me feel like a singing and dancing monkey, just there to put on a "performance" for someone. Women are really only expected to just lay there or be molded into whatever position the guy feels like trying next. There's not really any societal pressure put on them to perform sexually.

My next point is female orgasm. This might sound controversial, but I believe most women are just not as "in touch" with their bodies as men are; everything needs to be done just right, with great timing, and all the stars have to be aligned for a woman to have an orgasm (98% of men say they "always" reach orgasm during sex, vs. 11% of women).

So with these two things in mind, you can see why sex can sometimes look like a daunting chore rather than a fun activity. Sometimes I would just rather fuck my hand or my fleshlight than have to deal with all the foreplay, dirty talk, rough handling and ejaculation postponement that it takes to make a girl happy. It's a bit of a pain in the ass sometimes. Do it wrong and you lose value with your girl, don't do it long enough and you lose value, don't do it at all and you lose value. The only thing you can do is try to keep up the facade that you're some insatiable alpha sex machine that only wants to please your girl. The pressure sucks.

Don't get me wrong, I also love getting into those nice, long freaky sessions where you just take your time with everything, but not all the time. Also, I'm not saying all women are like this. In fact, my favorite sexual relationships were with girls that were well in touch with their bodies, took initiative in bed and were open about their preferred path to orgasm.

roe_ · 2014-03-25T21:06:30+00:00

Many, many reasons.

Working from evo bio up:

Women just have a lower sex drive (speaking very broadly, on average) than men. Sex drive is related to testosterone level, and women just have less of the stuff. There's also the biological cost of pregnancy on women vs. men. &etc. I know milage varies wrt to drive, and quite widely, but I've seen quite a few low drive women (once/month) and no men that would be happy with that level of activity. (No infidelity, either). (I'm married to a pretty low-drive woman - fortunately she's quite giving)

Next up - attraction. It's been brought up in the thread already - it doesn't seem to work the way you assume. Women who lose attraction don't entirely know or are conscious that this has happened. They don't seem to think "if he just lost 15 lbs., got a better hair cut and clothes that fit properly, I would so fuck him!" They just backward rationalize not having sex each time he asks - that's why it's "tired" or "headache" and not "you need to work on your approach!" It's not purposeful, it's just something that slowly happens.... It's just not one of those things where communication helps much. :(

Next - logistics. I don't know if anybody here has kids, but holy shit can they be cockblockers when they're little. And they really do sap your energy. This is why a lot of couple institute "appointment sex."

Next - manipulation. Yes, some people are assholes and leverage sex to get their way. It happens. Pretty ugly.

Next - lack of companionate bond - some couples just drift apart mentally, and there's sort of a mutual dead bedroom. It's kind of sad. It takes a little effort to remain connected, and regular sex should be part of that. But we have a lot of problems in our culture with narcissism and being over-worked, and it takes it's toll at the level of individual couples.

Zackcid · 2014-03-26T17:24:10+00:00

Women hate betas with such passion... Having sex with one is akin to 5 years in prison. You seem to still be attracted to your man, but would you be saying the same thing if he suddenly lost his value to you? You even mentioned that you'd be worried that if you withheld, you'd be worried that he might find some elsewhere. Women married to betas know that the guy is so unattractive, that he couldn't even got some from other women if he tried, "so why bother.."

zluruc · 2014-03-25T22:56:26+00:00

"Withhold" makes it sound as though people are entitled to sex from each other. And it's not a gender-specific thing, either--men aren't all after sex 24/7, and women don't all have lower sex drives, etc. It's pretty depressing that your first instinct when a woman isn't having sex with a man is either "She's making a power play" or "she just has a low libido all the time".

As to things that can put the kibosh on sex, even in someone who normally likes sex a lot? Let's see:

--Stress

--Depression and other mental illness

--Certain medications

--Ill physical health

--Fatigue

--Relationship problems

--Being really busy with work/kids/etc.

--Sexual trauma and abuse (not from one's partner)

--Sexual trauma and abuse (from one's partner)

--Insecurity about body, performance, etc.

--Partner puts so much pressure on the person that they get too stressed and it becomes counterproductive

--General sexual incompatibility with your partner

sex is a huge part of any relationship and I think it's really important that you make yourself available to your partner

Sex varies in importance from relationship to relationship. It tends to be elevated in importance more often among younger, more hormonally-driven people, and while older folks may certainly still have healthier sex lives, quite often they figure out that there are a lot of things that are equally as or more important in a relaitonship than sex.

But moreover, isn't sex fun? Why would anyone forgo it? i Mean obviously some sex is better than other sex...quickies aren't as good as the long romantic ones, but it's not like it's some atrocious boring chore. Even the less exciting sessions are still fun once you get into it.

Speak for yourself. What if a person's partner is terrible in bed and doesn't want to get any better? What if they're some selfish jerk who thinks it's okay to just get what they want and to hell with what their partner wants? And just because sex CAN be fun doesn't mean every person MUST be in the mood all the time, 24/7. I have a pretty high libido, but even I have times where I'm really just not in the mood. And if there are other circumstances like the ones I listed, then sex isn't likely to be fun.

What makes sex enjoyable isn't just the physical actions of it; it's 90% in the mind even when your body is in good condition and isn't hurting/fatigued/etc. So it's not just "get the body aroused and the mind will follow". it's a lot more complex than that.

not only do I love sex, but I would never dream of denying it to my partner because to me that's a form of infidelity and neglect.

Stop projecting your own situation onto everyone else. I am going to guess that you're young (no older than mid-twenties) and haven't had a lot of life experience outside of your own little world. One of the things that life teaches you is that the world is a lot more full of gray areas than "sex is good, no sex is bad".

And to say that not having sex is infidelity is a false equivalency. Not having sex is in no way equivalent to lying to your partner about being monogamous, potentially exposing them against their will to diseases from third parties, etc.

Finally, if someone is only having sex once a week and they're complaining about it? They should go wander over to /r/deadbedrooms and read some of the posts there--some of the people there would LOVE to have sex on a weekly basis.

swift-heart · 2014-03-25T20:32:10+00:00

loss of attraction, some medical conditions, just having a lower sex drive than your partner, or some sort of power play.

sex is fun, and making an effort to continue having sex with your partner strengthens the emotional bond. it may not be something i crave constantly, but it's easy to change my mind. no force necessary. i just get turned on easily during an intense makeout session because i'm attracted to my boyfriend. wow so oppressive. not.

i'm not a sex slave, i'm a person who cares about the state of her relationship. blue pillers really overreact about this issue.

[deleted] · 2014-03-26T02:57:25+00:00

The only experience I have of withholding sex in an LTR was with my ex, and he was the one doing the withholding. Our relationship was on the downslide due to shit we couldn't reconcile (I wanted him around more, he wanted marriage and me to move to his country - also my country because dual citizen - I wasn't going to accept a proposal from someone I didn't believe would be around more of the time, he wasn't going to accept making the effort to scale back his work without a guarantee I was going to stick around) and he knew what a big deal sex was to me. He knew that for me, sex was the way I felt closest to him, not just physically but emotionally as well. I distinctly remember the feeling of being punished. It wasn't even that his sex drive was low (it wasn't) - he specifically denied me to punish me. And that was fucked up. It would be fucked up coming from a woman, too. As others in this thread have mentioned, though, there can be many reasons for withholding sex - some reasonable, some not reasonable. I've seen the dynamic where one partner has been checked out for awhile, giving no fucks, and only sits up and notices when the sex-tap is turned off. Cutting sex off in that situation could be a last-resort kind of move, and isn't necessarily wrong/bad, imo. It just depends so much on the specific situation.

I dunno, I think maybe we're kind of similiar in this regard - the idea of being uninterested in sex is completely alien to me, so while I accept that some people (men included) may feel it, I can't identify with or understand very well. When in a relationship, barring dread disease or 2 broken legs or somesuch, I always put out. Always. For me it's part of loving someone, of letting someone know how much I love them. I totally accept that others will feel differently, and don't see this as a right/wrong thing, though.

rulenumber303 · 2014-03-25T22:36:59+00:00

I know the pattern most common in the marriages of my friends.

Usually when a wife goes on strike about anything major (sex, housework, being civil to his ugly mug over breakfast etc) it is because he just stopped trying in some major way and all efforts to motivate him or demand change have failed. Women can forgive a lot from a man who keeps getting up and making new sincere efforts and a bit of progress every time life knocks him down or he fucks up.

Lose a job? Look for another one or go back to study. Getting tubby? Start lifting weights or riding a bike. Upset my best friend by insisting on being a dick about politics? Fix it with an apology or at least an agreement you shouldn't talk to each other about that subject again. Got too drunk and said some awful shit? Read a book on getting your life together, and refuse the second drink next time. Decided to refinish the floors by yourself and now everywhere is a mess? Fix the problem or get professional help.

The point of "oh hell no" often comes when she's being expected to just accept a new, vastly lower definition of "normal" in more than one area of her life purely because he'd rather have it that way and thinks he can swing it. He has become fat, unemployed, grumpy, a social disaster, doesn't change his clothes and shower daily, there are unfinished projects all over the house, he won't go to the doctor about his damn snoring and the reduced quality of his erections and the possibility that this is depression or some underlying physical problem. Any raising of these issues leads to an argument of the sort where she's being messed around and led in circles and insulted.

So she takes back an equivalent bit of herself just for herself. Her body. Her patience and civility. The time she used to spend pairing his socks and having sex with him. Because fucked if he's going to be kept comfortable with everything on tap when he wants it and another human being working 24/7 for his comfort when he's wearing a hole in that couch and won't listen to sense... she just doesn't feel like doing that shit any more and who can blame her. And its a wonder she hasn't left yet.

Zackcid · 2014-03-25T22:47:55+00:00

Studies have quantified a woman's sex drive over time. On average, in her mid 20's her sex drive is higher than it will ever be, slightly over twice a week in frequency desired. From that point her drive falls rather quickly, roughly 20% per decade. There's a common misconception that women want more sex in their 30's as their fertility begins to decline. This is simply false, by the time she is 35, desired frequency is below twice a week. Men are different.

sh1v · 2014-03-26T04:32:24+00:00

Because men don't put them in their place. They let the their women slowly whittle them down into mild mannered, tepid, inoffensive yesmen. They hand all the power in the relationship over willingly. They look at bluepill advice like "bitch, just provide and work and analyze and worry and romance and never stop dating and give and give and maybe someday, if you're lucky, the woman will deign to throw you a few scraps of sex, which by the way you don't deserve and aren't entitled to in any way. Shitlord." And being the dumb, naive, yet good natured fellows they are, they believe all this, and continue to let their women's fickle vaginas dictate the course of the relationship, rather than taking control and making said vaginas work for them.

Meanwhile the woman is sitting up there on her pedestal busily not thinking about her lack of a sex life, save for occasional guilty twinges of "I wonder why I don't want to sleep with him, he's been so PERFECT... <Hamster engages> Wait I know... He must be doing something WRONG, after all, I shouldn't have to work at sex it's just a natural just-sorta-happens thing in healthy relationship. I wonder what small thing I should nitpick about? The laundry hamper is full that's why I can't have sex... Yeah, yeah that's the ticket. Fuck it, maybe I should just go have an affair, it's probably the only way to Find Myself and fix the damage this non laundry doing bastard has done to my sex drive!!"

GayLubeOil · 2014-03-25T21:29:31+00:00

Because the men failed all of their wives shit tests. The wives slowly began treating their husbands more and more like shit until one day the last all respect for them. At that point they didn't want to procreate with a sad loser. These are the same women that snap their fingers to get their husbands attention.

ElderSign · 2014-03-26T09:29:15+00:00

Continuing with the mismatched libidos theme that has been brought up by others: It's usually not "withholding sex" but genuinely not wanting sex. Women "allowing sex" in cases like that would be either lying there and be used as a masturbatory aid, or faking enthusiasm. I can't imagine the first being satisfactory and it is almost certain to build resentment; the second would be an outright lie, and building a relationship on lies is generally bad.

Monogamous relationships between people with mismatched libidos are generally not a good idea.

Edit: I noticed you addressed "not being in the mood" in another post, and you advocate the "faking it" approach. But surely you can understand how that would make many people feel treacherous or betrayed? Not to mention it being unlikely to succeed between two attentive lovers who have been together for years.

[deleted] · 2014-03-27T14:58:53+00:00

Because I'm 24 and I have the rest of my life to have sex with my fiancee? I mean really, if your tired or don't want to, just don't have sex, it's one day, who cares. We do have sex a lot, even after 5 years... but not every day. If he is tired, we don't have sex. If I am tired we don't have sex. I mean this is really simple stuff.

AptCasaNova · 2014-03-28T17:25:57+00:00

First, there's a huge difference between 'withholding sex' and 'not being in the mood for sex'. I think men are often confusing the two.

If I'm upset about something, specifically if it involves my bf, the last thing on the planet I want is sex. If my bf wants sex, it would be nice to see him try to understand why and not just assume I'm being a bitch.

Actual withholding of sex, where you want sex yourself but are denying it and using it as a tool, is manipulative and wrong. You're also screwing over us honest women by not discussing your issues like big girls.

spongegloss00 · 2014-03-25T23:56:46+00:00

Withholding sort of implies that it's purposeful and I think--although I have no idea--that this is often not the case. I think the lower libido partner probably just doesn't want sex, not that they think "if I don't have sex with my partner I can manipulate them into doing stuff for sex".

I'm the higher libido partner in my relationship by far. My boyfriend would be happy to have sex maybe once a month, I'd be happy to have it every day. It's frustrating and hurts my ego, but I don't think he's withholding it per se. I think he's mildly depressed, overweight, and body conscious and just doesn't want sex because of it.

Even if I'm not in the mood, sex doesn't even take that long and it's important to the other person.

I'm sure it's different for a lot of people, but personally I don't like having sex when my partner isn't into it. It kind of really sucks and isn't fun at all. I can always tell when my boyfriend is just doing it to please me and I always stop him because it's an instant turn off to know he isn't enjoying it.

I also don't understand how women can deprive their husbands of sex, and not worry that he'll just find someone else.

I guess they assume their partner has some integrity. Or at the very least, enough communication skills to say "if you don't sexually satisfy me I will be tempted to look elsewhere". Although I just reread what you wrote and I assumed you were talking about cheating, but maybe you meant divorce?

But moreover, isn't sex fun? Why would anyone forgo it? i Mean obviously some sex is better than other sex...quickies aren't as good as the long romantic ones, but it's not like it's some atrocious boring chore.

You're speaking from the position of someone who has a high sex drive and enjoys sex and you seem incapable of understanding that for some people sex isn't fun and is an atrocious and upsetting chore. I've used this metaphor on here before, but it's like being super full and offered a slice of cake. Sure, you like cake. Cake is normally delicious and in other circumstances you might take it. But right now the thought of eating cake makes you sick because you're super full.

Even the less exciting sessions are still fun once you get into it.

I emphasized the key phrase there: what happens if you never get into it?

heist_of_saint_graft · 2014-03-25T20:16:48+00:00

Because you can't Have something and Want it at the same time.

Women's sex drives seem to be optimized for chasing down elusive, attractive men. Saying "I promise before God and the State to love you forever" is the opposite of elusive.

aaron_the_just · 2014-03-25T21:57:25+00:00

There was this discussion on SRD a while ago. And maybe you're looking at it the wrong way. Sex is not something owed to the other partner but something two people do that is fun and that is crucial to making a relationship work. And when you think about it that way, then not having sex is less about the woman withholding sex but as either a symptom of a larger problem in the relationship or a natural split in the sex drives of either partner.

Sex is one of those things that's contingent on you being happy, healthy and able and willing to have sex (like biking or hiking or any other physical activity). Sometimes menopause kicks in, sometimes it's health problems, sometimes the relationship is in the toilet and she's secretly cheating on you. Or maybe she's tired everyday after years of raising insane, wild children with the house falling apart and chores piling up. Maybe she's not attracted to you anymore.

I doubt many people are in fact actively withholding sex and being manipulative like that (though I'm sure those types of women exist) and more something's happened to their libido. (ie. Don't assume malice in the relationship when it could be something else entirely) The answer then is to either separate because of the difference in sex drives that in fact does crop up or to fix the problems in your relationship.

sad_handjob · 2014-03-25T20:36:37+00:00

Do you have proof that this is a gender specific issue? Otherwise, I don't think there's any basis for a discussion.

Hoogstens · 2014-03-25T20:29:16+00:00

It's obvious there's no attraction, and it somehow became less and less as the marriage matures. Then it makes sense they don't want sex any more. It's not a form of punishment per se. For some women unlike yourself — their enjoyment probably has a higher threshold.

I'm not well-informed on marriages and such, but my understanding is men tend to ignore their wives sexually during pregnancy or heavy bouts of stressful work. It's a unique female trait to become cold and distant for whatever reason pops into their minds. For example he did X, and he should have done something else. Or maybe something he said the night before etc.

Damned_Hedonist · 2014-03-25T21:28:23+00:00

if you dare, check out /r/deadbedrooms... those folks may have the answers you seek...

Damned_Hedonist · 2014-03-25T21:29:12+00:00

if you dare, check out /r/deadbedrooms... those folks may have the answers you seek...

MagicGainbow · 2014-03-26T14:45:55+00:00

''Now, strangely, I've heard of MANY situations where men were withholding sex or only having sex with their wives once a week (and confirmed not having affairs)'

I think this rarely happens, recently I read an article about a woman complaining that her husband was 'withholding sex' due to the fact she put on weight and refused to lose it, he wasn't withholding anything he just finds you physically repulsive enough that he literally can't get it up. I think this is the case with most men 'withholding sex' either she's done something that makes her physically unattractive(ie put on weight) or something mental like the guy currently on askmen that has ED because his wife went poly without consulting him.

[deleted] · 2014-03-27T13:48:43+00:00

Here's a good article on the subject of female sexuality. Excerpt:

"If monogamy, intimacy and communication are the engines of female desire, why do so many women fail to ignite with a familiar and faithful man? Why does their passion fizzle in marriage? Why will they seek to secretly graze in foreign pastures? Why do they not benefit from the monogamous arrangement more? Why do they break it up more readily?

In light of the new research findings, the old narrative—that women desire relationships rather than sex and are thus built for monogamy—begins to crumble. Instead, a new narrative emerges in which female sexual desire is powerful, flexible, complex—and even subversive."

whatwatwhutwut · 2014-03-27T16:43:14+00:00

If I ever withhold sex, it's because I don't feel like it. I also respect my partner's right to withhold sex for the same reasons. We never use withholding sex as a tactic when we've had some kind of personal disagreement and, largely, don't withhold sex at all. Using that kind of behaviour as punishment for something would be ridiculous. Of course, not everyone feels like having sex all the time. Seems pretty simple to me.

If, for whatever reason, you don't feel like having sex and your partner does and your first instinct is to assume they will just try to get it elsewhere if you don't put out... That reflects, to me, a startling lack of faith in your relationship's stability.

GridReXX · 2014-03-27T22:04:37+00:00

"Withholding sex" is the interpretation, and not what's truly occurring in most cases.

I can only use myself and my female friends and male friends as examples.

But when myself and my female friends are upset or are harboring pent up anger or resentment we literally don't want to have sex. We are not wet or stimulated. Sex in this state would feel horribly unpleasant. It's not like we want it bad and we are denying it out of spite. It's that we don't want it. All sexual tingles are eviscerated when we feel this way. We aren't withholding sex. We don't want it. Both parties have to want sex for it to be enjoyable. There's a reason people say couples shouldn't go to bed angry.

Now when I question my guy friends, a lot of them could be severely upset with their SO, but most said even in this state their penis can still get hard and they sill want to fuck.

So I don't know. But I hate that whole withholding accusation. It's more or less a lack of desire depending on mood.

But I love good sex.

Lol I was talking to another friend who said for guys, when sex isn't great it's still good.

But for women sex can go from terrible/painful/numb to heavenly bliss. We have a wider range and sex isn't always going to be good.

MissPearl · 2014-03-25T23:04:14+00:00

Even if I'm not in the mood, sex doesn't even take that long and it's important to the other person.

It's not really worthwhile unless the other person is enthusiastic and engaged. Which is not to say that lazy person sex isn't fun, but that tends to still governed by a measure of enthusiasm. Also your vagina may be looser than mine. Okay, that's not intended to be a dig on you, I mean literally speaking it's extremely painful to me and occasionally even painful to my male partner to do penis in vagina sex if I'm not properly aroused because I not only have a strong pelvic floor, but a stubborn one.

And in extension of this, studies put "dyspareunia" (pain from sex) in women at a fairly high rate- around 10% or higher. That's one of the reasons why you might see a decrease in desire for sex in some women, at least talking exclusively about one kind. Now sex can also mean other things- it could be a hand job, anal or oral, or pegging, or mutual masturbation. All of these things are fun, but not everyone considers them part of their sexual repertoire- for example I doubt you peg your significant other. So there's that- some people are too uh, what's a less judgey word than "prude"? Or they don't get much out of them- not all guys love head as much as TRP seems to bill it or don't enjoy being finished off by hand by someone else.

Adding to the enthusiasm problem, some male partners demand their female partner orgasm every single time they have sex. This involves a lot less simply being hands free masturbation for him- once again not everyone's version of "sex" is feasible without being full on in the mood.

Now I like sex just dandy, but I would also point out that a lot of your argument hinges on "ZOMG he might cheat!!!" That is a possibility if you go on sex strike, and dog-in-the-mangering about sexual access with your partner is in my mind, crappy. On the other hand if I have a headache or if he has a headache (or a week from hell) neither one of us thinks that very night the sexually frustrated person will find other people. If you really feel you are being held hostage to that, this may be an unhealthy level of anxiety.

Some people who cheat do so because they have sexual needs that are not being met. A large number of people, men and women, supplement or compliment their sexual desires with pornography/erotica and so forth (whatever the couple finds socially acceptable) and don't even want to fuck a perfectly willing SO. This is not a flaw on the SO's part either- it's like you can eat out without hating someone's cooking.

FortunateBum · 2014-03-26T01:02:45+00:00

But moreover, isn't sex fun?

I'm guessing that you haven't tried to seduce many women and that you haven't had sex with many women.

Sure, there's a handful of women out there with your attitude toward sex. But the majority of women wouldn't give a shit if they outlawed all sex tomorrow. They would simply say, that's a relief! and get on with things.

There's a reason prostitution exists. Supply and demand.

masterrod · 2014-03-25T20:40:56+00:00

I'm a woman (I know this is a faux pas) and not only do I love sex, but I would never dream of denying it to my partner because to me that's a form of infidelity and neglect. There's a chance that if I was really angry with him I may not have sex for one night, but honestly that's never happened. Even if I'm not in the mood, sex doesn't even take that long and it's important to the other person.

Unresolved anger is a really good reason. Sometimes you can close his woman's spirit so much, that's all she can do to show how much she's hurt is hurting herself by withholding sex.

I also don't understand how women can deprive their husbands of sex, and not worry that he'll just find someone else. If I said no to sex, that would be the first thing on my mind!

I think women test the waters before they decide to out right say no their SO.

But moreover, isn't sex fun?

Sex is intimate, and intimacy can bring emotions that can not be control. Sometimes sex can be fun, but it can also be deep and scary as well.

So what's the deal? Why do you think so many women do this? Is it a power play to get their way in other areas? Is it a way to feel superior over the man? Do you think tons of women suffer from nonexistent sex drive?

I think some women do this as a power play. I think many women maybe afraid that they are falling to deeply into their feeling and may not be comfortable. I think some others only have sex to balance the relationship, so they must be careful how & when it's doled out. I don't sex is about superiority for most people.

Title	Why do you think women withhold sex from their husbands?
Author	spongegloss00
Upvotes	14
Comments	116
Date	March 25, 2014 8:06 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/21cmde/why_do_you_think_women_withhold_sex_from_their/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-you-think-women-withhold-sex-from-their.286037 https://theredarchive.com/post/286037