Women should be exempted from the draft because they're baby factories. A typical regressive chauvinistic, misogynistic . . .er feminist argument?

wuboo · 2016-02-13T20:48:34+00:00

I'm also a woman and a feminist and I believe that we either have the draft for either everyone or no one. Death by childbirth is almost a non issue for developed countries and only a small portion of the military actually are on the front lines.

wombatinaburrow · 2016-02-13T21:48:47+00:00

I think she's confused as to what feminism is. The draft has to be for everyone or for no one. I favour no one.

bluepy67 · 2016-02-14T01:08:55+00:00

I'm a woman, an army veteran, and a feminist. We should have a draft for both genders, or neither. And we don't have a draft now, but women should have to sign up for selective service like men.

wzil · 2016-02-14T16:12:44+00:00

So fine, don't have them sign up for selective service. Have them sign up for selective breeding. If there is a significant depopulation, they are required by law to report to military facilities to be impregnated based on government paring to determine best chance of fetus vitality. Choosing to not show up, or becoming impregnated by someone else, is treated the same as going awol/directly disobeying orders. And every woman must sign up when they turn 18.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-02-13T23:27:32+00:00

Exemption from the military draft for women is an essential part of our traditional societal compact: American women risk their health and very lives in pregnancy and childbirth to produce new American citizens. American men, in times of war, risk their health and lives to defend those women and children. Women who volunteer for military service are going commendably above and beyond the call of duty.

The traditional societal compact also has men dominating women in all areas of life. Just sayin'.

CuddleLumpkin · 2016-02-14T05:02:00+00:00

Selective service is not the draft. The draft ain't never gonna happen again. Warfare is so far removed from the old "boots on the ground" strategy of decades past. But I do think everyone, male and female, should serve a year for their country, similar to what Israel does.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2016-02-14T09:37:10+00:00

I see her point, but I don't agree with a draft. And if there's a draft, then it's both men and women.

Without women in the military, women who want to serve and are able to serve, cannot. We'll lose out on the perspectives and influence of female soldiers n the military. And the more women who go into the military, the more women who will rise to positions of prominence. We can't continue to have a situation where men decide for us all who goes to war and when and what happens in war.

The disastrous, foolhardy and morally corrupt decision to declare war on Iraq should never have happened. History will judge this idiotic decision very, very harshly. I'm not saying that if we had half women in leading positions that this awful decision wouldn't have been made, but we don't know that. Women often see a bigger picture. The prospect of continuing to have men mainly leading the military terrifies me.

All that said, women absolutely DO sacrifice when they undergo pregnancy and childbirth. It's definitely a risky thing to undertake. And if things even go slightly to shit (as a country), childbirth will become increasingly risky.

18 out of every 100,000 women died in 2013 in the US due to childbirth. This is a much greater percentage than US soldiers who died in active service in 2013. That makes childbirth dangerous to undertake. The death rate doesn't include all the ongoing medical complications that many women face in general after childbirth. In contrast, these are the rates of workplace fatalities per 100,000 (most dangerous US states: http://www.aflcio.org/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/dotj15_fbd1_5dangerousstates/3869251-1-eng-US/DOTJ15_FBd1_5DangerousStates_halfWidth_noRightSidebar.png)

Childbirth 2012 figures: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science_of_longevity/2013/09/death_in_childbirth_doctors_increased_maternal_mortality_in_the_20th_century.html

despisedlove2 · 2016-02-14T03:10:32+00:00

Standard modern feminism. Expand female privilege using a combination of modern agitation to win equality where males have had an advantage, and coyness to maintain female privilege where females have had an advantage.

The message that an average military wife sends to her husband these days is,

"Go potentially die for my sake. I will cheat on you behind your back, and possibly even cuckold you if the timing works out. When you get back with PTSD and develop personality issues that I find dangerous, I may choose to carry out the standard divorce rape for your salary and those amazing military benefits I know I convinced you to save. Yes, I love you.".

Little wonder that coupled with PTSD, war veterans who get divorced upon coming back to the country are at the highest risk of anyone for suicide.

Forms a nice contrast with the welcome that returning GIs got in the 1950s from supportive (but still cheating to a lesser extent) wives and girlfriends.

dr_warlock · 2016-02-14T17:15:58+00:00

Bringing up the draft for women is just to clearly show the hypocracy of society.

Women should never be in combat whatsoever. No sane man would want women fighting by their side. They are burdens in physically taxing activities because they are weaker, lighter, have less endurance, they whine about insignificant things, and are emotionally weak and unstable. They will get you killed and piss you off.

[deleted] · 2016-02-13T21:51:20+00:00

Well I guess we just need to put a rush on developing artificial wombs.

Reginleifer · 2016-02-14T07:42:11+00:00

Just for the record I am completely for this idea, women are much more useful in the prevention of economic collapse down the road than they are being forced onto the battlefield.

It's not white knighting, it's not sentimental, they're just better served there and once we make the argument that people should be FORCED to do something to benefit society then you might as well do it right.

And if so does that imply that women can be forced to make this sacrifice for the same reasons we force men to fight without their consent?

If we ever reach a point where we need that, then yes some punishment ought to apply (increase their taxes? give them lower rations?) . We really don't force dudes to fight though, we chuck em in prison no?

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lbspredh · 2016-02-14T09:58:59+00:00

Nobody is forcing women to have kids, they want to have kids, where is the sacrifice in doing exactly what you wanted to do?

SpaceWhiskey · 2016-02-14T10:42:36+00:00

Feminism is not a monolith. There are constant conversations and disagreements happening within feminist circles at any given moment. A perfect recent example is all the older female politicians right now getting upset that young women even young feminists are overwhelmingly supporting Bernie over Hillary. To them, Hillary has paid her dues and deserves it and all women should help. To the young women, they grew up in an era more equal than any before it, recognize that sooner or later there will be a female president and that Hillary needs to have more going for her than simply that.

I don't think anyone should be subject to a military draft, and have said as much here multiple times. If a country can't find enough willing volunteers to fight for their cause, then their cause isn't worthy. The government shouldn't have the right to throw lives away as fodder, especially in an era where we have drones.

mistixs · 2016-02-14T15:05:38+00:00

It really hurts me to see feminists fight for unequal treatment, that goes directly against what the pioneers of feminism were fighting for. Like other feminists posted below, I'm for everyone being eligible for military service or no one.

darksoldierk · 2016-02-14T18:02:13+00:00

The difference between women risking their lives in childbirth and men risking their lives in war is choice. Women choose, and most women do it with a smile on their faces. It is their biological imperative to have children. Women aren't forced to have children, they want to. Moreover, that child brings happiness and comfort to the women in addition to the benefits that it provides to society. And society allows the woman priority of that comfort and happiness over a man by almost always giving custody to woman in divorce. The draft was originally made alongside the vote. The idea was, you have a say in shaping this country, but you pay for that say by risking your life when that country needs you. Men did it knowing they got something back, and that if they survived, they had something waiting for them, their reward. Much like, when women have children, they know that they have the reward of the child waiting for them at the end of the pain. In today's world, the reward that men got is meaningless, because that same reward is given to women as a right. In other words, women have the right to a vote, men have to risk their lives for the vote. It is an inequality at it's finest, where the woman is given something for just being a woman, and the man has to earn that same thing simply because he is a man.

You, and your thoughts, are the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the fight for equality in today's world. Fighting for the advantages of being a man, while rejecting the drawbacks. It's posts like yours that make me think that women are hypocritical bitches that aren't worth a man's time, love, or effort.

obstinatebeagle · 2016-02-15T03:00:13+00:00

If women are exempt from the draft then they are advantaged... so that is a completely coherent feminist argument!

midnightvulpine · 2016-02-15T11:51:48+00:00

I think her argument is silly. Childbirth, while hard and painful, is rarely fatal these days. I wouldn't equate it with military service since the two are vastly different.

Though the real answer is to get rid of the Draft. It's usefulness has passed. And service should be voluntary, as it has been.

mistixs · 2016-03-28T16:58:56+00:00

A thought. One parent has to stay home, obviously. For every woman who has given birth, is a man who she has done a favor for. You're going to have your wife go through all the pain of childbirth and then have her go to war too? What kind of bullshit is that? And then if there IS no man in the picture...well, in that case, the woman still can't go because someone has to stay with the kids. As for women who have no kids...whatever. sure. But then we should find a way for men to experience something like menstruation regularly. If women have to take on the disadvantages of being a man, men should have to take on the disadvantages of being a woman, for equality.

Title	Women should be exempted from the draft because they're baby factories. A typical regressive chauvinistic, misogynistic . . .er feminist argument?
Author	5th_Law_of_Robotics
Upvotes	10
Comments	131
Date	February 13, 2016 8:40 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/45mi0u/women_should_be_exempted_from_the_draft_because/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-should-be-exempted-from-the-draft-because.276260 https://theredarchive.com/post/276260