Alright, so let's get one thing out of the way, I despise the Alpha-Beta dichotomy (mostly because reality is rarely ever so black and white), but there's something to be said in that there is some bit of truth spread throughout

So I'm going to use this definition for "beta male": cowardly, physically weak, non-confrontational, nerdy, overly nice, sexually inactive, sexually incompetent, sexually undesirable

You can call them weak men, nerds, losers, or whatever, but the point is you get what I mean; any man who ticks a few of the descriptors above is a "beta" by definition

So, let's get into this shall we? I'll list this out since there are several facets of self-improving

Warning: VERY long post.

Physically improving oneself

  • Right off the bat, one thing I've noticed. When men begin to self-improve their physique, they're met with all sorts of BS from women, often unsolicited including, but not limited to
    • "You're fine the way you are!"
    • "Why don't you get some rest?" (usually said by someone who knows nothing about fitness who thinks working out 4 times a week is "too much")
    • It's ok, enjoy yourself! (food-related)
    • (enter something about being too concerned with how your body looks or body dysmorphia)
  • Many men, especially on this sub, have heard "I don't find muscles attractive", and/or "So when you get buff, you think girls are just gonna like you all of a sudden?" (spoiler alert: yes)
  • I didn't list this above, but I've also heard and seen girls use this against guys when they get angry, saying that the guy is compensating or trying to be tough because he goes to the gym or does martial arts.
  • I've also seen other more subtle put-downs that occur when a guy who was previously weak begins to become not-so-weak

Getting more confident, arrogant, and less "nerdy"

  • Now this is an interesting one. Usually what I see is that a man who the woman THOUGHT was a nerd or a shy geek or some shit like that turns out to be more confident than was assumed, all of a sudden he's "Pretending to be something he's not"
  • Now, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "But what if his arrogance was just annoying?" or "Maybe he was a cocky asshole", and the thing is that you're right, but then when certain other guys do it, it's not a problem. And why is this? It's because a wom
  • Nerds are often encouraged that they're "Ok the way they are" as well, when their own life experience (getting ignored by women, made fun of, and having no social life) proves otherwise
  • Again, this is an example I've seen, but when a guy of this seemingly low caliber in women's minds stands up for himself, they lose their absolute fucking mind. Claiming that he's trying to be tough or that this "isn't him", when in fact that IS him, this is the shit that he always wanted to say to you; you're just upset that you can't walk all over him now.

Getting better with girls

  • This is easily the most egregious one. Our mothers and society tell us all sorts of shit like:
  • "Don't hit on women"
  • "Be a gentlemen"
  • "Don't be a player"
  • Notice how it's almost never men saying this, except for the ones who are scared of legal repercussions for hitting on women (these men are often kinda paranoid though)
  • This is often told to men who are bettering their dating abilities, but entirely to their detriment since it basically relies on a woman making the first move, which ensures basically no play

I would assume this was some isolated incidents, but I've seen men all over saying they experienced the same things, in some cases damn near verbatim,

Now, here IS the strange part.

When you actually succeed in whatever it is you were doing, they are actually supportive of you and will celebrate your victories with you.

When you actually become confident, good with girls, physically improved, etc., all of a sudden they're right behind you. The same women who said this to you are all of a sudden proud of you or in some cases even attracted to you now. At the very least when you've actually shown yourself not to be weak, THEN you're respected, but the process of getting there, people sure as hell aren't with you

This story derives from part of my experience (kinda; I'm not really an archetypal weak man or beta male. Ask if you want more detail; it's complicated), but more importantly the experience of tons of other men who are viewed as, or are, beta or weak.

FURTHERMORE: I'm not complaining; in my own case, I can say that the subtle attempts at making me quit drive me even further and made me even stronger; my successes in general are entirely because of my detractors.

FURTHERFURTHERMORE: This post isn't trying to support any pill or make a greater point, this post IS the point. Period.

EDIT: SO uh, my view has been changed surprisingly quick as I've realized that most of the time, it's probably people actually being good friends and not wanting to upset people

In the process I've also realized I may or may not be an asshole.