Awhile back /u/BluePillProfessor posted his thoughts on biblical divorce and we batted that around.

A study of the relevant texts outright suggests/strongly implies that a man can divorce his wife for more than just the physical act of adultery.

The word used (porneia) carries a broad meaning. It is sexual immorality.

The question one might ask then is: What all is included in that word? What actions or activities?

One of the things beyond the physical act of adultery that some/many commenters argued was including was the withholding of sex (1 Corinthians 7:5 )

These two were certainly not the only reasons that some argued are included in the "except for fornication" (porneia) clause. And this argument has been ongoing for centuries.

This debate got me thinking on this issue again. Now, I want to suggest another possible addition.

Divorcing for lying about N-count

A woman who lies about being a virgin or lies about her number of sexual partners/N-count might be included as part of the divorcing for sexual immorality scripture.

In the Old Testament, a groom who thought his wife wasn't a virgin could demand proof, and her family had to provide the "tokens of her virginity" or sheets from the marital bed that would have blood on them.

If she was innocent, and really was a virgin when she married, then the groom was whipped, had to pay a fine and lost the right to ever divorce her. As such, he would be required to provide for her all of his days.

If she had lied, and she wasn't a virgin when she married, she was to be stoned to death.

So the biblical penalty in the O.T. was death, if she lied.

In the New Testament, the Lord Jesus speaks on divorce and encourages commitment with the "except for the cause of fornication" statement included as a reason a man may divorce.

And, as noted earlier, the word fornication (porneia/sexual immorality) is fairly broad.

So in our modern times (unless you want to argue we should put to death those who lie about this), does the porneia divorce clause include a woman lying about being a virgin when she marries?

If it meant death in the O.T., should it at least mean the right to divorce, today?

And along those same lines, if a woman isn't a virgin, but has an N count or sexual partner count that is high but lies and says it's a much lower amount, would this principle still apply?

Because that's where the vast majority of women are today. It's often taken as a running joke that women lie about their number of sexual partners. A woman may have a N count of 13 and say it's only 2, etc. to help secure commitment from a man.

Of course, a husband may not want to divorce his wife if he later finds out she wasn't what she said/presented herself to be. I'm interested in other's comments about whether lying about N count would be included and any arguments for or against doing so?

Final thoughts

As I commented in the other thread, God hates divorce. Hates it. God's heart is to find a way to heal and prosper the marriage. He does, as many others have said, allow for it though, under certain circumstances. It should be as a final act, not a first thought when trouble arises. It should be after longsuffering and demonstrated love (even if not loved in return), not lobbed as a first response if or when one finds out about sexual immorality.

That said, it's either included or it's not. Share your thoughts as to why or why not. Even if you don't have strong biblical arguments to share in your comments, what are your thoughts and emotions about this?

Also, in the original thread linked above, /u/BluePillProfessor and I exchanged comments about this not being taken lightly, nor exercised swiftly. He stated that his levels of dread should take a year.

Additional question for single men to consider

Is it more likely a woman tells a man the truth about her sexual partner count if she knows he has the right (and the will) to divorce her if she lies to him about this and he finds out?

EDIT: IMPORTANT

OK. It seems some have taken this the wrong way, so let's see if I can help clear up a few things:

Some people got the impression I wrote this to find a reason to divorce, I'm up to no good, I have some nefarious purpose and my heart is dark lol etc. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

And yes, I'm playfully exaggerating a bit with the above statement. Not much, though

I'm the OP. I'm single, never married. That may change soon, though. We'll see :)

So there's certainly none of the above that is true in point number one.

Let's have everyone take a deep breath and relax. Pretty please? :) :) for any sensitive souls.

This was mainly a simple thought experiment.

I wanted to further discussion on a thread we had awhile back, which I linked to at the very beginning, and get others thoughts on whether the original point of this post would be included in the word porneia and the divorce discussion.

Let's walk through this:

We had a thread awhile back and a discussion about what is or isn't allowed in divorce, focusing on the word porneia. Which I didn't start, but commented in.

There's a specific O.T. reference to women lying about their N count, which is a non-virgin woman saying she is.

Instead of posting a long comment in an older thread, I simply started a new one and pondered whether the aforementioned situation would apply, and asked other to join in the discussion and comment.

That's all.

I am not encouraging or looking for extra ways or excuses for men to find reasons to divorce their wives.

Which I thought was really clear in my first paragraph under "Final Thoughts."

If not, here's an exchange with /u/Red-Curious or maybe it was /u/ruizbujc in case you don't want to weed though all the long comments.

CONCLUSION: The point is not to increase the exception to relax the standard

To which I responded:

The point* is not to increase or decrease the exception. It's to find out what is and is not included.

We don't want to stretch it out to mean almost anything nor water it down.

I was (mostly) treating this as an academic exercise, and much of your commentary centers on a man's motives. But one's motives doesn't change whether the scripture in question does or does not include this action.

Part of another comment on his:

If you want to use "she lied to me about her n-count" as an excuse to get out of the marriage, what's your real motive?

And I responded thusly:

I agree that for many men, this or other things are used as an excuse to get out of a marriage. And we should counsel them to consider love, forgiveness, mercy and more and help restore and heal the marriage.

But again, motive doesn't change meaning.

If a man doesn't want to end the marriage, the meaning/interpretation of the verse still stands. And if he does (even if he's using it as an excuse), the meaning still stands.

Like I said, I was mostly treating this as an discussion on whether an act is or is not included.

There's more to be said, but we'll leave it here.

Many commenters have shared beautiful thoughts, and I'm in agreement with many of them.

As for Red and Ruiz, please read their comments in full context. He and I agree on much.

I'll post this edited section in the comments as well, for those who scroll and browse.