My baptist church hosted a racial reconciliation meeting last week and I'm just disappointed as to what I heard. I'm red pilled through and through. I would like to be clear that I believe black lives matter, but I don't believe in Black Lives Matter for many reasons. If you're curious as to why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88-dV9K_cHE I honestly feel like I'm going to have to resort to dating apps to meet Christians that aren't fooled by the media and what society tells them. Of all people, Christians aren't supposed to succumb to the world and their approval and it pains me to see so many churches bowing down to this narrative.
[–]citykid264032 points33 points34 points (4 children) | Copy Link
I'm with you. I support black lives, and all lives, but not the BLM movement. But rest assured there are many churches left that have not bowed down to this PC, media driven world. My church, which has many races, has taken a "one-race" stance, that is, that GOD is not a race, and we are made in his image.
[–]sabsz16[S] 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Wow, that’s awesome to hear! Which denomination are you?
[–]citykid26409 points10 points11 points (2 children) | Copy Link
It's a non-denom church in the metro Atlanta area, roughly 1,500 members I would guess?
[–]sabsz16[S] 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
That’s impressive that a larger church would support that! Sending love from Illinois!
[–]PRW631 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm Illinois as well. I escape to Missouri almost every weekend,...and sometimes at least once during the week.
[–]PRW6318 points19 points20 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Most of Christianity after the 1990's has become Blue-Pilled,....so is there really any surprise they are duped by the BLM media narrative?
Early in the Trump Admin BLM was declared a Terrorist Organization. No one seems to remember that. When he recently declared ANTIFA a Terrorist Organization,...I was pretty sure that this had already been done 3 years ago as well. Maybe there are some good researchers in this sub that can dig into that. I'm pretty sure that both ANTIFA and BLM were declared Terrorist Organizations shortly after Trump won the first election. If records of that can be found, then you should show this to your church staff. Of course be ready to leave the church because they will just reject you and may even ask you to leave the church.
[–]sabsz16[S] 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I have previously already suggested minimal ways in which we can improve the church (as a whole, not in political beliefs) to our pastor directly and he didn’t even make an effort to consider what I said. I’m a 21 year old small little white girl. They just don’t take me seriously
[–]PRW636 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Side issue, but I think I should mention it,...this a Blue Pill presentation of that. It plays the victim card, plays the gender card, and the racial card. But no worry,...at your age you just came out of school that pounded that way of thinking into you head for the last 12+ years. Keep your head screwed on straight and you will come out of that in a few years,...unless you go to college or Uni,...they will make you worse and it will take longer to recover from it. That is not a slam on you,...I'm just letting you know what to look out for.
But in any case,... they aren't going to take you seriously no matter what. They would only take serious another Pastor who has the same degree, same education, and maybe even a similar number of years running a church. He might give you a little more consideration if you were a Deacon or Elder, but even that isn't always so. A more cynical Black Pill view would say that he might give a person more consideration if you were a big financial supporter of the church because they would not want to loose you.
[–]Willow-girlParticipation Trophy Wife3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Haha, you beat me to it!
[–]In_der_Welt_sein-4 points-3 points-2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
What Trump said was just words. Legally speaking, it is literally not possible to declare BLM or Antifa to be terrorist groups. They are both wholly domestic, disparate groups with no strictly defined ideology, no concrete leadership (they are loosely organized at best), and, most importantly, no record of engaging in actual terrorist activities. There are no legal mechanisms for penalizing them (official foreign terrorist organizations can be added to no-fly lists or face financial sanctions), and there are constitutional concerns with “outlawing” groups based on their views.
And also Trump is trying to distract from the fact that white nationalist groups who adore him and whom he refuses to condemn pose a greater threat of violence than Antifa, but that’s as partisan as I’ll get here.
[–][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]In_der_Welt_sein1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Extremely Christian response. Well done.
[–]two-israelites8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
My sister's church set up a shed in the parking lot with signs on it saying "Black Lives Matter", "Love Wins", "We're here to listen", "tell us how we can do better", etc. They call it a "reverse confessional" and she posted about how proud she was of her church. I wanted to vomit, rend my clothes and weep, then cut down an Asherah pole. (Then again, I expected as much of her church as she's openly fornicating with another member and the pastor says "well, all we can do is pray for them" like Scripture doesn't address unrepentant sin).
[–][deleted] (10 children) | Copy Link
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[+]ChargeMyPhone-11 points-10 points-9 points (9 children) | Copy Link
jUsT leAvE uS aLoNe lol Tell that to the cops murdering people. The only people obsessed with white people are white people.
[–][deleted] (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Red-CuriousMod | 35M | Married 12 yrs6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This is what I've been trying to tell people. I have a degree in statistical methodology, which is the study of how statistics are gathered and what they mean when applied to real-world conclusions. It's incredibly disappointing to see how so many bad statistics are put out - not that they're false. Many of the statistics the media references are true. But they only investigate far enough to confirm their biases and then stop. They never ask the questions: "Why might this be happening?" or "Is there something more at play?" unless it advantages their liberal purposes.
Corona is a great example of this. I just had a conversation with another user who was quoting death rates in the 5% range, which is ludicrous, as it causes most of the 20-49 year old people on social media to think that 1 out of 20 of them who get corona will die. Yet that statistic is true, so why shouldn't they believe that? Because out of those 5% virtually all of them are 80+. Anyone between 20-49, according to one study, really only has a .0092% chance of dying. Whoop ti doo. This is what misreporting statistics does.
You're finding the same truth being uncovered by looking deeper into the half-truths to discover the other unreported half, and that's an essential work that modern liberal media journalists are uninterested in doing because it crushes their narrative and loses them viewers.
While I wasn't a very big fan of them either, I was very sad when Fox News was bought out by Disney, as there is now no major network that doesn't have a liberal boss.
[–][deleted] (5 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ChargeMyPhone0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Says the guy who uses "your" incorrectly
[–][deleted] (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ChargeMyPhone-1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
Lol how Christ-like of you
[–][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]ChargeMyPhone0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol stop lying to yourself then
[–]jayval904 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This is why you go for the more orthodox communities. Or at least go with one that has a "church memory" (ie, didn't go through a major reform since then) of longer than 50 years.
[–]RunawayGrain15 points16 points17 points (0 children) | Copy Link
So I'll put this out there as best I can.
I'm originally from a small southern town, and of mixed descent. I'm half Muscogee and half German, if that helps. I have a healthy suspicion of law enforcement as a result. When the cops come, they aren't generally there to get at the truth, they just want to close the incident. Usually that means a minimal investigation and an arrest. So if 9/10ths of your family are villains, well, it's guilt by association.
I also grew up fairly poor, and the small town I'm from was a pretty tough place, and has only gotten tougher in recent times. In other words, unlike a lot of the suburbanite kids I see running around doing all this rioting, I got to see first hand why we need a constabulary. Lots of people, including some of my own family members, will act on a 'what can I get away with' model. This has now been grafted onto some sort of victimhood complex.
As a case in point, one of my aunts got caught stealing the silverware when she was eating at a restaurant. The cops were called and got her with a the silverware in her purse. Her takeaway? The police should mind their own business. People like that aren't in the business of self reflection on how their actions might lead to predictable outcomes, it's all just push as far and hard as possible with them.
Now those same bored suburbanite kids are taking up the banner from a bunch of misanthropes like my aunt there. The misanthropes are excitedly exploiting it, and the media is egging them on. In the end it's the people that actually just want to make a decent life for themselves that get caught in the crossfire.
[–]f3m1n15m15c4nc3r8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Supporting BLM is supporting terrorism.
My church doesn’t promote BLM and if it ever did, I would find another church immediately.
[–][deleted] (6 children) | Copy Link
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[–]sabsz16[S] 4 points5 points6 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Yes! I feel the same way. It’s terrible how far the church has strayed from all of that
[–][deleted] (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–]sabsz16[S] 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, definitely. It’s scary to witness how watered-down Christians have become
[–]JadedByEntropy0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The ponderings of farmers in the British countryside, the uneducated, are university level readings only taught in seminary because they know God and were picking the details out aome centuries ago. That should be the laymans level of understanding
[–]PraexologyEndorsed5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Churches are already castrated, no point in defending the current corporation of Church.
[–]Red-CuriousMod | 35M | Married 12 yrs4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Right. Better to word this: Don't defend churchianity or the congregational structure; but do defend The Church.
[–]PrincepsOmni4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Most Orthodox churches don't buy into this.
Some of the more traditional Catholic groups too (who will now be at odds with the current Pope).
Am sure there are traditional Protestant churches out there who aren't supporting Black Supremacist Marxist groups as well...
The usual benchmarks apply for selecting a church if one is scriptural and red pilled:
Churches that get these things aligned with scripture aren't likely to support any Marxist groups and will be big on law, order and community harmony.
[–]battmaker-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
Find yourself a traditional Latin mass. When you join a “Protest-ant” church, don’t be surprised when the spirit of protest sweeps it up.
[+]PraexologyEndorsed-18 points-17 points-16 points (57 children) | Copy Link
So what exactly were the challenging things that your church said that were so offensive?
There is definitely a point to be made that white people, and by extension many white Churches have slighted the black community. So I'd be interested to hear what your church was off about.
[–]MisterDSTP13 points14 points15 points (36 children) | Copy Link
Im more interested in what you would way white people and white churches have done to slight the black community.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed6 points7 points8 points (35 children) | Copy Link
Without going into much detail, where I am from (the northern midwest) the church is full of pearl clutching, door locking white women who use things like social media to say "Well, all lives matter." Or "all races are Gods race." But will show true concern when a black amazon delivery man drops a package off at their house.
That type of ingrained racism permeates the Church culture and I've heard even women in my family use the phrase "One of the good ones." When talking about POC members of their Church that they've connected with.
[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man14 points15 points16 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Was Jesse Jackson racist when he essentially said and did the same thing?
From Bob Herbert of the New York Times quoting Jesse Jackson:
Is it "ingrained racism" if some black people like Jesse Jackson act and feel and "show true concern" the same way as some white people do about what you're describing?
[–]PraexologyEndorsed4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Hmm good question, I think it depends on what his view of black crime is.
The point I'm more interested in your commentary is actually this, because of that pearl-clutching behavior, I know it has driven kids and adults of color out of my local churches, and has alienated them from seeking out the church.
Is it sin that this type of racism prevents white people from sharing the gospel. And if so, how do we fix it?
[–]citykid26406 points7 points8 points (17 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for sharing. That sounds more like an one off though, not the culture at large. Certainly everyone has subconscious bias as a result of their environment, but I don't know that you wouldn't be able to find a similar story towards whites or asians in a mostly black community. And once again, it would probably be a one off, not something to upend society over and demand blood from the other side.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed3 points4 points5 points (16 children) | Copy Link
Therein lies just a difference of beliefs, simply that it either is, or is not as pervasive as the other person thinks. And I'm fine with saying that's just a difference of belief.
But then as Christians we have an obligation to seek unity in the Church, and if such a large portion feel like there is disparity, then we need to seriously look into it.
[–]citykid26407 points8 points9 points (15 children) | Copy Link
I would totally be okay with hearing people out. I think the OP was moreso implying that so many churches are not simply listening, but rather bowing down to the BLM movement. And unfortunately, the listening sessions are one sided, as society has proven that you can't openly speak out in opposition to the BLM movement.
I'm not trying to speak for all of society, but anecdotally all my black friends do not feel oppressed, do not want special treatment above what they already get, and are not behind BLM.
If you work at a large company now, all of us are being forced to smile and swallow a BLM pill, despite how we fell. My F500 just had a BLM and SJW rally that we were all expected to attend. We already go through sooooo many hoops to give blacks special treatment at my work, not the least of which is automatic hiring preference based on their race.
I just worry that PC culture is teaching people to always be offended
[–]PraexologyEndorsed6 points7 points8 points (14 children) | Copy Link
They aren't forcing you. Going through your post history I can see you aren't a regular to this sub. Disagree with the aspects of the movement you believe are not right, and back the portions that are right. This is what being your own mental point of origin is all about. When you die, the only person God will hold accountable for your actions are YOU.
As Christians we are called to be very specific with out beliefs and to stand by exactly what we believe. And if someone comes alongside us saying they are on our side, then suddenly starts saying things that are in opposition of scripture, we are again called to address it. It's what makes being a Christian challenging.
[–][deleted] (13 children) | Copy Link
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[–]PraexologyEndorsed0 points1 point2 points (12 children) | Copy Link
Just to clarify, you believe that the way of the cross is not marred with harrassment, assault, shaming, ostracism. Correct? Or am I misreading that.
Hmm, wasn't able to find this source. What site is this?
[–][deleted] (11 children) | Copy Link
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[–]MisterDSTP-5 points-4 points-3 points (14 children) | Copy Link
Ok thanks for sharing.. kinda odd hearing you say this because I honestly expect that of most white people and probably stopped taking that as a big deal years ago and come to accept it.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed4 points5 points6 points (13 children) | Copy Link
I expect it of most white people too, unfortunately. But the issue is, this type of thinking permeates all life for these women. In my youth group when the kids would go out to the neighborhood to raise money, even with the exact same script the kids that were black or asain or Hispanic were notoriously under donated too. Even by members who would later give out money to the white kids who asked for donations.
[–]MisterDSTP2 points3 points4 points (12 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. Well this is what upsets me most about the BLM movemwnt. I have to see these virtue signaling hypocrites. Unfortunately I thought I found a home a new church and had to leave since the protest statted. Because of all of the white guilt stuff.
I understand it needs to be handled. But I dont need to be there for it. It's very unfortunate how this is all fracturing the nation.
[–]Boogie7781 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
I don't understand this? Does Christ not mold us into who he wants us to be through the fire? I'm not going to put words in our Savior's mouth, but are you not forfeiting the opportunity to grow, and become a better person by leaving? Yes to a great extent this fracturing the nation, but people "walking out" of this much needed conversation is indicative of "this is my bubble and i won't change it because X makes me uncomfortable". As a man do you walk out on your wife because things get hard? Or do you stand asses the problem and work to fix it?
[–]MisterDSTP2 points3 points4 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Sir, I'm black.
I was saved in a church with a particularly older congregation so I've been looking around for something more up my speed
Thought i found it at a diverse church with a white pastor. His sermons were right on time and really hitting home for a while but then it just got hijacked by all the BLM racial stuff. Forgive me if i dont wanna hear a white man talk about racism.
I do not need to be present for white folks to work on their racism or white guilt or self-loathing or whatever it is that they/you're doing.
We're not talking about BLM in my black church. We talk about God.
[–]Boogie7782 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
I also I'm black and to dismiss or run from the very important conversations that need to happen within our church communities is necessary. We are commissioned to into the world and share the gospel, which can answer every and anything. But if people choose to be cowardly (respectfully) and hide from this painful topic, who are we ministering to? Ie) What do you tell people who have a hard time reconciling their maybe racist experiences within a church? And/or someone who believes that the Bible mandated the view that Black people are beneath? We cannot cower in fear, or run to comfortability when the world in Jesus, in EVERY aspect.
We cannot continuously appeal to the lowest level of intellect being unable to discern good from bad, or Jesus from the world. Yes, as Christians we're going to be too Christian in any bubble, but that shouldn't stop us from engaging meaningfully with these issues.
[–]MisterDSTP0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
So I'm a little confused. This seems like you just took an opportunity to grandstand and judge based on our differing approaches. But i doubt that was your intention. So let me instead ask you to clear up your point and your accusations.
What is it that im running from exactly? What conversations am i dismissing? My church is still digital because of quarantine. But if it wasnt what are you suggesting I do? (If i had a community it would be great to be able to be asked by them and share with them but) What does sharing the gospel have to do with black lives matter? What exactly is the topic? That black lives matter? Like i said before i go to a black church. We already know black lives matters. 10 black men were killed by the police this year before the riots started.
We have bigger issues in the black community than a public lynching and a manufactured outrage. An example is 250,000 of unborn babies being aborted annually. And the attack and the dissolving of the nuclear black family/fatherless homes. Stuff that we can learn about in the bible.
Im not sure I get your suggestion/angle/point? Im open to learning and understanding what you mean and how I can be better.
But I'm new to the bible so i wouldn't know enough scripture to teach on the things you ask about reconcilliation or blacks being beneath people. (Ive never heard of that) but I believe spiritual counseling and grieving the hurts to get to forgiveness and loving God and loving thy neighbor as thyself is key.
If your pator is saying racist stuff or stuff that you think goes against the word. Bring it up and if you find that God isn't in your church find one where he is.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed-1 points0 points1 point (5 children) | Copy Link
I would argue that it is not fracturing the nation, but rather illustrating the issues that already are there.
[–]MisterDSTP3 points4 points5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Well i'd be open to your arguments. But this is thread about a person feeling the need to leave his church because the political ideology has infiltrated in an overbearing way is a prime example of the fracturing.
Yeah people had their feelings but it wasnt breaking up the families and churches and institutions. We are literally witnessing someone being pushed to the alt-right.
This approach is corrupt. But to be fair I havent been inside each and every church so I remain open to hearing how these discussions go and what is actually being accomplished during this time.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Political and faith ideologies need to coexist in Church, because the political ideologies need to be born from your faith.
The dissolution of the modern church is honestly not a bad thing. Currently there is a profound lack of zealous believers(read: actual believers) in the Church, and if a split occurs because of it, I'm not sure I would call it corrupt. Just the result of man not following God's law.
[–]MisterDSTP4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Im talking about BLM being corrupt. It being exploitative of the black community. And really just is a communist agenda. Communism doesnt agree with Christianity. So i dont really get your point.
If a church wants to discuss personal racism and being a better Christian, cool. But why is the church latching onto false narratives about police massacring blacks. That's not actually happening.
[–]sabsz16[S] 3 points4 points5 points (19 children) | Copy Link
It was a sort of round table discussion where everyone was invited to talk about their experiences, opinions, and such. Most of the people there were around 21-35 years old. There were a few black men there, but the majority of the group was white. During the discussion, one of the black men shared that he thinks it’s the responsibility of white people to make black people feel heard and that we need to do better. The consensus was in support of that as well as defunding the police and giving that money out to social justice organizations and giving out reparations for slavery to black Americans.
[–]agoodcrayon7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
So a man that lacks knowledge behind the movement was duped into believing the movement is for a greater cause. Much like many people I know. I’ve spoken to many many black people who denounce this movement.
They know how the media works. They know that not all things are shown and majority of the information coming out is skewed and biased.
Emotional events create emotional thinkers. You can’t argue against emotions with facts. Emotional people wouldn’t accept any statistics nor any other truth because they aren’t thinking logically/critically. This goes for both men and women. Irrational thinking and itching ears...
What is the ultimate goal of BLM?
It should be police reform not defunding. If anything they need more funding.
It shouldn’t be related to any Political party. But all I see is people hating on Trump and wanting to vote him out despite the fact that he’s helped the black communities more than any other president has done prior.
Topics BLM supporters don’t like talking about are black abortions and black on black crime.
At the end of the day, a sinful man is trying to solve a problem without God. You cannot change a racists mind with facts or history or laws.
A person cannot fully change without repentance. The renewal of their heart and mind. Much like Paul, a murderer of Christians to a full on preacher.
[–]deepwildviolet7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Abortions of black babies has been a huge eye opener to me. In NYC there have been recent years where the number of black babies aborted was larger than the number born. I'd call that a genocide.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed4 points5 points6 points (16 children) | Copy Link
So why exactly are those things in opposition with your faith?
I'm saying this with the understanding that different sects of the BLM movement do have anti-christian sentiments, but that for the majority of lay people is not the case.
[–]sabsz16[S] 8 points9 points10 points (9 children) | Copy Link
It leads black people to think they are powerless and victims, when we all have the power and authority of being God’s children if we so choose it. That kind of thinking puts race ahead of the Kingdom of God.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
The power and authority of being God's children comes in the next life. We are very much able to be victimized, browbeat, and destroyed in this one. Acknowledging the effects of sin in a post-fall earth doesn't detract from God's glory, it adds to it. That we are so far from his plan that man is attacking eachother based on something as trivial as melanin.
[–]Red-CuriousMod | 35M | Married 12 yrs3 points4 points5 points (7 children) | Copy Link
This is my view. Simply put: we're part of a heavenly Kingdom, not an earthly one. We are here as part of a spiritual military force, rather than a physical one. With physical military forces, it's often a running joke in movies that some people get stuck stationed in a research base in the arctic, right? There are crappy assignments. But they're usually also important assignments, whether we want to admit it or not.
Can you imagine the researchers stationed in the arctic revolting and insisting that all stations should be equal, and therefore those stationed in Hawaii should be recalled because they have it too good, and those stationed in the arctic should be recalled because they have it too bad, and we should all have equal positions in some mediocrity, like Kansas? That's lunacy and would completely undermine the point of the mission each party is stationed at.
God is the potter, we're the clay. Some are designed for noble and others humble purposes, and others to be destroyed altogether, right?
In this, I don't believe there is any room for a biblically oriented black person to be complaining about his lot in life. Does God not promise that those who are given little and are faithful with little will be given much in the age to come? Doesn't he promise that the lowly will be glorified?
Jesus could have come in the height of Israel's glory, if he wanted. There was a time when they were a super-power throughout the world. Instead, he comes in a time when Israel was in exile, subject to Rome, and broadly persecuted. The hate against Israel by Rome isn't as clear from Scripture because the apostles weren't prone to whining about their earthly situation, but most secular history around the time documents this well - and it escalated to the point that within the lifetime of the apostles there was a war between the Jews and Rome that resulted in mass slaughter and the destruction of the temple in 70AD. That's the people and time-frame that Jesus decided to come in.
If black people want to make a claim of oppression, that's fine - but Jesus himself came as one who lived within oppression and did not demand equality, but instead demanded that his people pursue a spiritual Kingdom that would be better than the physical ones that were oppressing them.
Biblically oriented black Christians should understand this and realize: Yeah, I'm the unlucky one who got stationed in the arctic. It sucks, especially when I know the guy who was stationed in Hawaii. But this is a temporary placement, so I'm going to carry out my mission in the place I've been given, and look forward to the reward I was promised for my diligent service.
Does that mean you can't vote the way you want, or that you can't voice your concerns? Of course not. If we have certain political freedoms, we have every right to use them - and we should. But using our freedom to promote concepts of guilt, shame, condemnation, hate, violence, anger, and overall political unrest ... that just seems completely contrary to the model Jesus gave us.
[–]sabsz16[S] 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
But there’s a difference between going through actual oppression and being mentally enslaved/brainwashed by the media and society. What the media shows is that black people are being killed left and right, the police are racist, and black voices are oppressed. If I do see racism happening before me, I’m not going to remain quiet. I’m going to help and speak up, but not because I’m white and I have “more privilege” but because I care deeply for anyone who is being mistreated as Jesus would. But as of right now, it’s the narrative and belief that black people are constantly being oppressed and silenced in America that is causing such a divide amongst people. Does that mean I think racism never happens today? No, of course not and that should never be overlooked. But I do believe black Americans are the freest they’ve ever been today in all of American history, maybe even more so than white Americans today, since the narrative silences those that dare question it and we will always be seen as the evil race that put black Americans into slavery, forever paying for the consequences of our ancestors.
[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Hey now, Superman was from Kansas! Well, raised there :)
Not everyone can be from Florida or Ohio ;)
Just a bit of lightheartedness to help ease any tensions in this thread.
Good comment, btw!
[–]Red-CuriousMod | 35M | Married 12 yrs1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Haha, that was the reason for the reference. Any time I can sneak superman in I will ;)
I once thought about writing a post on superman as the epitome man who wears and balances both blue and red.
[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Wise ;)
And I say that as a Marvel fan, but hey, Superman is, well... Superman!
Go for it!
Teaching ideal traits in a cultural icon works.
[–]Red-CuriousMod | 35M | Married 12 yrs0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Right. The problem is that someone who's a true comic book fan will realize all the ways superman has been over-feminized by different writers over the years, so he's not always the ideal man. He always has absurd oneitis for Lois, for example - and that strings through even some of the better portrayals of him. Of course, this is going to be true through virtually every heroic character because they're off doing so many other things on their mission that there's not enough pages to write about them shotgun approaching a few dozen hotties. But some of the more recent writers have at least caused him to ditch Lois for Wonder Woman, who he has less infatuation for because she can take care of herself.
But the fact that he puts his mission above all else, and always succeeds despite Lois's constant penchant for getting in the way, is still an admirable quality in Superman among all his writers.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
In your opinion, what responsibility do white believers have to the racial plight of their black brothers and sisters in Christ then?
[–]Red-CuriousMod | 35M | Married 12 yrs1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The same responsibility white believers have to any other believer. James 2 dives into this quite clearly, warning against showing favoritism in the first half and against inactive faith when others are in need in the second half.
Consider:
I see a black man being beaten up by white men. What do I do? I intervene and stop the assailants, or (if I'm incapable of doing so), I get help.
I see a white man being beaten up by black men. What do I do? I let him get beaten up and do nothing to help him because he's white and privileged and does not need the same help as my black brothers, right? Of course not. I do the exact same thing.
Our obligation to help others does not change because of the color of their skin. I owe nothing more and nothing less to black people than I do to white people, nor am I to show favoritism to one over the other, for we are all one in God's Kingdom. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." To suggest that one person deserves better treatment than another because of the color of their skin - even if there is a shared "history of oppression" tied to that skin color - is still a sign of favoritism, which is forbidden within the Church and not modeled by God.
[–]citykid26406 points7 points8 points (5 children) | Copy Link
I don't want to speak for the OP, but I too would have some problems with that.
For one, white people are currently being censored, so a round table discussion like that is really just for show. If someone stood up and disagreed with that man, they most likely would have been outcast. This is because the BLM movent calls for blood for people who don't outspokenly get behind them. That's bullying behavior and not something the church should support.
Also, what of all the other races? We all have an oppression story of some kind. As Christian's we are one race, and all lives do matter. Shoving BLM in someone's face is actually very presumptuous if you think about it. It's implying that i, and society in general DONT think black lives matter, which isn't true and is somewhat accusational. It's somewhat arrogant to demand so many things for your race. I have a bi-racial family, and I could never imagine doing something like that.
[–]sabsz16[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes definitely agree with you! Very well said!
[–]PraexologyEndorsed-3 points-2 points-1 points (3 children) | Copy Link
No, as Christians we are one people. There is a difference between faith and race. Race is skin color thing. Christians can look any type of way.
I think thats the point. It is accusational because there is enough evidence supporting a racially preferential society that it needs to be said. The "all lives do matter." thing is... a load of crock honestly. There is NOT an implication that black lives matter more than other lives, but that they matter as much as other lives.
[–]citykid26406 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
That might be your viewpoint, but I've looked at the BLM website, and I've been to protests. Both were pro black/LGBTQ, and anti police. It did not come across that all lives mattered.
[–]PraexologyEndorsed-1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
I made concession above about the ideology of the different sects of the BLM movement. I firmly believe it is not the belief of many of the protesters. So no fight on that.
However, the cops arguement. The "lives matter" thing is about people who deal with lifelong opposition as a result of something they can't choose. You can quit being an officer. As a matter of fact, the private security sector pays handsomely.
[–]Red-CuriousMod | 35M | Married 12 yrs3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
That's not a viable long-term solution, though. What you're suggesting is either:
(1) that the entire police force be dispanded and we devolve into anarchy because "you can quit being an officer" if the hostility against the police grows far enough and private security is a better-paying gig anyway. That's the natural end-conclusion without some protection for officers; or
(2) that because we HAVE to have a police force, SOME people should be forced into a low-paying, thankless job that is hated by countless people in the nation and just deal with it.
Imagine (a) the types of people who are going to sign up willingly for that second camp, and (b) who those people will become after they've lived in those conditions for some time.
But more to the point: there's no actual evidence that "systemic racism" by the police is actually occurring. What we do see is that the incidents of violence by police officers against unarmed African Americans is drastically under-proportionate to the number of violence by black people committed against police officers. One study showed that in 2015 a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer. The incidents of unarmed black people being killed by police officers has also dropped every year since then, down to only 10 cases in 2019, whereas 48 police officers were murdered in 2019. In 2015, black people made up only 6% of the population, yet were responsible for 52% of murders.
Yes, we can make up excuses for why it's justifiable for black people to have a disproportionately higher quantity of murders due to their "history of oppression" (which no doubt does exist) - but that doesn't change the fact that police are acting relative to the crime rates. To that end, I read one statistic that actually showed the reverse: that if we look at unarmed white deaths by police officers relative to crimes committed by white people and compare that to unarmed black deaths by police officers relative to crimes committed by black people, you will see that black people are actually killed less often than white people relative to the amount of crime each of them are committing. Now, I have no idea if that study was assessing all crimes or only violent crimes where the officers were at greater risk - but the fact that black people commit more than half of the murders in the country yet make up (at current) only 13% of the population tells me that the targeting isn't based on the color of one's skin, but based on the crime rates and the risks posed to the police officers by different cultural groups.
[–]longhaksim-4 points-3 points-2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes just the churches who turn a blind eye to race and preserve the racial hierarchies within the church under the guise of the "we are equal under christ banner". The church has to have a long hard look at itself and confront such issues. Only then can we even consider ourselves the body of christ.
[–]PositiveMaleGuidance-2 points-1 points0 points (4 children) | Copy Link
From my favorite church:
Sermon 1
Sermon 2
[–]brighthand1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Which church is this? I would like to hear more.
[–]PositiveMaleGuidance0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Faithful Word Baptist Church. They are banned from YouTube for the next month but you can check out their sermons in mp3 format here or from the Faithful Word Baptist app on iOS/Android.
[–]deepwildviolet2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Why were they banned? I've been hearing about a lot of rondom people/groups getting banned in the past month.
[–]PositiveMaleGuidance2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Political censorship from YouTube/Google.
[+]Boogie778-9 points-8 points-7 points (8 children) | Copy Link
I'm disgusted that those who call themselves Christian are against this statement. It is out birthright as Christians to stand for those who have been stripped off justice. Political leanings are not at play here. This is a right/wrong issue. Are we to be Pharisees who walk by the ethnically different person on the wayside and continue walking? Living in our comfortability. Being ignorant/arrogant to the truth of Jesus? Freedom! Or do you not know that those who called themselves Christians raped women, children, and men, all the while taking them up to the church built above the slave prisons to "worship"? The worship of self, and inability to see the wrong doings of a country and people is disgusting. If you can understand why because of a business decision your great grandfather made, your family is blessed today, you should be cognitively able to grasp the damage done to black people throughout time millennia.
Let's discuss, because this doctrine of self, and non-love will destroy the people apart of the church and attempt to break and divide if left uncheck. Do not forget that Jesus told us these times were coming: 12 Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. - Matthew 24:12
Edit* Grammar
[–]jayval904 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
From OP:
So they're for the statement, but against the current movement. Obviously you didn't read the post.
[–]Boogie7781 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I very "obviously" did. But the OP also brought up the fact that they want a "conservative or alt-right (which on many accounts is ridiculous)" church which tells me they're looking at this from, or at least a partially political/cultural viewpoint. So is running to a conservative nestle any better?
[–]Willow-girlParticipation Trophy Wife1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Well said.
My working-class parents were able to buy a house thanks to government-backed mortgage programs, and to build equity and pass that wealth on to me. Due to the practice of 'redlining,' an equally hard-working and ambitious black family would have been denied that privilege.
I don't want to be one of those people who was born on third base but thinks she hit a triple.
As Faulkner said, "The past is never over. It's never even past."
[–]sabsz16[S] 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Hey, I totally understand what you’re feeling. I used to feel that way, too. Here’s a reply to another comment that I think applies here, as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/hj9wkv/feeling_discouraged_with_many_churches_support_of/fwn4g1a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf But also, don’t take my word or anyone else’s on it. I would highly encourage you to seek out what the data and statistics say for yourself. A good start, however, would be hearing out the other person’s side. If that is of interest to you, I would recommend the video I linked in my post. Feel free to do your own research of what is mentioned! :)
[–]Boogie778-1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
I read the comment. There's a lot. The first thing that jumps out at me is: "But I do believe black Americans are the freest they’ve ever been today in all of American history, maybe even more so than white Americans today, since the narrative silences those that dare question it and we will always be seen as the evil race that put black Americans into slavery, forever paying for the consequences of our ancestors." MLK, Marcus Garvey, Fredrick Douglas, etc have all heard this same phrase. "Black people are not enslaved anymore they can do whatever they want!". But can you really do whatever you want when your communities don't have resources (though municipal board meetings I might add)? When you don't know if you'll die while giving birth (black women are 3x likely to die while giving birth). When realtors deny to show you a house you are approved for? When redlining was a thing? I think this feeling of marginalizing white people feel is the scales leveling out. I believe white people just feel the pressure of not being the dominant force through time millennia, and in America. Now that voices, and cultures that are non white are starting to grow in makes less room for what many did not notice was white American. Now, if you are to watch the news (10 elements of news worthiness should also be searched) all day they'll make it seem worse than it is, but it's the same feeling many black Americans had when they turned to the television forever (and still do). Every black character is a caricature etc. Nuance is extremely important so the news is not a great source, everything is exaggerated, BUT at the slightest the collective pain millions of Americans feel today should be sign enough to know that something is wrong. And about the ancestors: you are not your ancestors, but reality is reality. It must be looked at head on, and as Christians I believe we should as you said look to help people no matter who they are; but what has happened in the past very literally shapes our future. God doesn't ignore injustice. It may not be in the timing we like, but He always addresses it. So I'm not going to put words in His mouth, but personally I believe much of what's happening has just been slated to happen. You can't put a foot on someone's neck and not expect them to want to retaliate. It's our job to pacify, and execute justice.
[–]sabsz16[S] 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I’m not denying that there is such racism as that still prevalent today and that should never be condoned. I am, however, referring to the extreme claims of BLM about police brutality, censorship, oppression, etc. As I’ve mentioned in my post, I agree that black lives matter, but I won’t support Black Lives Matter.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Okay, I've read around the comments section here and I think I have a better picture of this now and I've watched the video too.
How would you suggest the church - in a biblically backed way, addresses some of the legitimate claims of racism in the world? BLM may well be extreme, I agree with the name first and foremost and I'm still working my way through the ethos of the organisation. However, I'm not sure blasting people with the "under the banner of Christ" belief (which I believe) will necessarily help the way it should do in such a hurting and politically charged world (as far as I can see in the states anyways, I'm a black Brit), if there's not some acknowledgement and action against the injustices faced by some people groups in an area/region/country. How do we as a church see that honestly and without anything other than Godly motive? I think the church could acknowledge both things? This thought comes especially when OP is saying they want an alt-right/conservative church, like that changes the outcome when the very thing they want is for this to be biblical, not worldly or politicised?
Just some thoughts I'd love some response to.
[–]Boogie7780 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
What extreme claims are they making? Also, personally I believe that at some point we're "too Christian" for virtually every group on the face of the planet, but I would like to hear you rationale.
*Edit* on, not of