I [29M] recently began a dating relationship with a woman [23F] who I met through some mutual friends in a new city I live because of work. Long story short, we had a pretty good connection and started dating before she went back to Europe where she and her family live. By that time we started a budding relationship-she invited me to visit her and meet her family, which I did.
We almost kissed during our first dates, but after that she kept trying to save our first kiss for a special moment to make a "beautiful" story.
As a Christian, you may be wondering why I tried to kiss her, etc., well, you'd be partly right. I think God was showing me that I shouldn't kiss her until our relationship is very far along, perhaps after a proposal if that happens. (Plus lately, I have been getting a lot more attention from women and was in a drama situation for making out with a woman, which was not a good choice.)
This is fine, except when I heard she had an extremely emotionally intense relationship when she was around 20. The guy she was with pushed her too far sexually (think foreplay to the point of her having orgasms and giving oral) many times. Her father gave them permission to marry, so this may be why. In any case, it seemed like she would do anything for him and was willing to upend her life in Europe to follow him. Before this she had like 4 non-christian boyfriends who she went too far with as well. Apparently she didn't know marrying a non-believer was verboten. When she told me all this, I felt like a truck hit me. I always envisioned I would be with a virgin, (or at least, less experienced as she hasn't given herself fully sexually). She's grown much since then.
Wow, looking back on the sentence I typed make me and her seem like total pagans. Sexual purity is actually a big deal for me, and despite my age I've not had sex but have gone too far (foreplay) twice. I'm a big advocate of no-fap. I had to literally tell women I'm not having sex with them as they tried to convince me. Praise the Lord for that.
At this point she seems changed, because that relationship didn't work out and she was completely heartbroken. I was totally floored when she told me this, but I am glad she didn't go farther with her past bf.
We believe the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and know that he cleanses us of our sins when we repent, confess them, and turn from our ways. She's completely honest with me and I can ask her essentially any detail and she will tell me because she doesn't want to hide anything at this stage in our relationship. I want to be a guy who treats her right-and I came to the realization that kissing and physical touch can interfere with the evaluation process of dating, so at this point I'm starting to solidify the idea that we shouldn't kiss for a while/after engagement. I want to build her up spiritually, emotionally, and treat her right. If we decide not to continue I want her future husband to be glad she met me and happy that I treated her with respect.
A few things based on this background:
- She was so passionately "in love" with her past boyfriend and went so far sexually with him (many times) that I'm having an issue getting over it. It's because she was so attracted to him, probably. Since she won't kiss me, I'm worried she's not as attracted to me. I refuse to be a beta-male provider, I want my wife to be passionate for me and attracted to me at a high level. When she told me her sexual past I was emotionally wrecked and slipped into masturbation. This was rare for me as I've tried so hard to discipline myself in that area-typically can go many weeks without slipping. (I continually need to cleanse my mind.) When I told her this, she said that she wants to help me as an accountability partner. Recently, we discussed 1 Cor. 7 where the wife and husband are bound to serve each other sexually. She wants to know how much I want sex because she's mentioned that twice a week is probably okay and so wants to know how much I can control myself. She literally said "what if one of us wants sex and the other is tired or doesn't feel like it for whatever reason." !!! Okay, yea, that possibly happens late in the marriage. But look, if she's having this outlook now then I'm seriously wondering-is this a warning this woman is not attracted to me or will use sex as a tool and say "twice a week is enough!" A women will do this if she's not passionately attracted. I can't help but think she would never have denied her past bf anything.
2) How do other couples handle sexual tensions? If one partner has a higher sex drive? Men: what do you do that increases your wife's passion and attraction for you?
3) How do I/we aid in the healing of our sexual past?
4) Do you think letting my gf be my accountability partner is a bad idea and will hurt our relationship? There's good men who I already do this with. But she want's to know how much "control" I have over myself. (I'm worried that she's already calculating how she can wean me off sex, as already mentioned.)
P.S. The above may make our relationship seem very negative, but it only represents a uni-dimensional slice, and we have grown so much spiritually.
I'll update as necessary.
[–]ENTPunisher19 points20 points21 points (12 children) | Copy Link
Can I just say that the moderators of the Christian Marriage subreddit are the most cucked betas in the entire universe?
Promote male headship in the home? Banned.
Condemn sexual degeneracy? Banned.
Condemn female pastors? Banned.
The guy in charge goes to this shitty liberal church where he probably wears skinny jeans with his landwhale n-count 60 wife.
[–]WhitifiedBlue Target BAZOOKA8 points9 points10 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Just the mods? LOL
[–]ENTPunisher10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah the users are a real trainwreck too. I mean, that's what you'd expect since they're trying to find marital advice on Reddit.
Most of the stuff you see there is the "post-wall reformed slut" dilemma or the "I'm a total doormat" dilemma and of course the ever popular "The Bible says one thing but I wanna do the opposite, please give me permission" dilemma.
[–]WhitifiedBlue Target BAZOOKA2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
DUDE, im in love with that sub.LOL!
Check out this hilarious thread man:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianmarriage/comments/f9n4w6/what_does_winning_your_husband_without_a_word/
90% of the posts didn't even answer the question LOL
[–]ENTPunisher6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Lol another quality thread.
I've been banned from that subreddit twice. There's something really amusing about getting the message "You've been banned from participating in ChristianMarriage."
"Such a shame. Well, okay then, guess I'll install tinder and spin plates now! No Christian marriage for meee! "
[–]WhitifiedBlue Target BAZOOKA5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Imagine being an inquirer into Christianity. You strut in /r/Christianity ask some questions about the Bible. Next thing you know "You've been banned from participating in Christianity" lol it'd be funny if it weren't so sad
[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Chuck likes to call it ChristianDeadBedrooms haha
I believe you, but I may make a quick reply over there about male headship / wives submitting just to experience it myself, if they ban me, that is.
[–]1justmadethisaccount2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Really just joined the sub. Imma test them with a post.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Yep they are big time cucks. I just got recently banned from that sub because I schooled a woman who thought a reformed whore is better than a widow lol
[–]ENTPunisher1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Mods are coping for their own reformed whore wives.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol
[–]Eminencemiddle0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
So, I suppose that you think that his wife's boyfriend is a cuck, also???
[–]maximillian2[S] 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Stats: 5'10, 168 lbs cut, lifts: Bench: 200, Dead: 250 for reps (unknown max), Squat: 300 for reps.
Reading: Rollo's blog, MRP, etc.
Finances: Have a PHD in Math and a nice/fancy fellowship with good outlook as either a Prof or in tech/finance.
Spiritual: I know the scriptures pretty well, pray every day, struggle with materialism because I want to boost SMV.
[–]rocknrollchuckMod | 50M | Married 12 yrs7 points8 points9 points (10 children) | Copy Link
Read this: Saving the Best.
[–]lololasaurusEndorsed | 37M | Married 8 Yrs2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
That post was the hardest gut punch in my entire time after having discovered the red pill. It's still incredibly hard to reread.
How I hated discipline, and my heart despised reproof! I did not listen to the voice of my teachers or incline my ear to my instructors. I am at the brink of utter ruin in the assembled congregation.
Although, my teachers didn't know better either.
[–]rocknrollchuckMod | 50M | Married 12 yrs0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Amen. Unfortunately this phenomenon has only come to light fairly recently. It's always been there, just hidden. With the advent of technology more and more people are having the chance to learn the truth. If we had known, then we probably wouldn't have ended up here to begin with.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
The comments on that post reflect the world and not Scripture.
[–]rocknrollchuckMod | 50M | Married 12 yrs8 points9 points10 points (1 child) | Copy Link
My son, pay attention to my wisdom; Lend your ear to my understanding, That you may preserve discretion, And your lips may keep knowledge. For the lips of an immoral woman drip honey, And her mouth is smoother than oil; But in the end she is bitter as wormwood, Sharp as a two-edged sword. Her feet go down to death, Her steps lay hold of hell. Lest you ponder her path of life— Her ways are unstable; You do not know them. Therefore hear me now, my children, And do not depart from the words of my mouth. Remove your way far from her, And do not go near the door of her house,
Proverbs 5:1-8
She's already reasoning how to ration the sex they're not even having yet. He is wise to be concerned, especially since she gave herself so freely to others in the past..
This statement is why I shared Rollo's article.
[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This is exactly right, Chuck!
She's letting him know her plans upfront, and he should heed them, and act accordingly. Which in this case, I'd recommend leaving.
"Twice a week is probably ok and wants to know "how much I can control myself" and laying groundwork for the reasons why are likely indicators of a future dead bedroom.
Regarding her reasons, u/maximillian2 you wrote:
No, that can happen early on in a marriage as well.
Get this idea out of your head.
You're on more solid ground with this thinking:
That's if you get it twice a week. You may for awhile, or more often for time, but I'm guessing it'll be twice a month, then once, then every other month and so on.
I wouldn't bash her for her beliefs or past actions, just take this information and make the right decision for you, whatever that is.
If you think she's worth the risk, move forward. If you think your concerns are valid and the real world impact is going to be things you can't live with, then politely end the relationship, encourage her in the Lord, and move on.
[–]WhitifiedBlue Target BAZOOKA2 points3 points4 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Please, do elaborate. Explain as clearly as possible why you think that is the case
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Click on the article link and read the comments. Talks of sex outside of marriage, unbiblical divorce, and complete lack of grace.
[–]WhitifiedBlue Target BAZOOKA0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
No one there claimed the rationalmale.com article is against Scripture. Only you made that claim. You can't expect other people to defend a claim they never made.
You wanna make a claim that something is "against Scripture" you have to at least elaborate.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I know that. I made the claim. The proof I submitted was the article’s comments. I just don’t think it’s a valid source of instruction on Biblical Manhood.
[–]WhitifiedBlue Target BAZOOKA0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
So you're saying that the comments on an article is against Scripture, therefore the article is against Scripture?
....Seriously?
[–]Deep_StrengthMod | Married | deepstrength.wordpress.com6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
You have several problems.
Examples? What is her behavior like now when you're not with her? How does she show she serves Christ? What's her mission for Christ?
What is YOUR mission for Christ?
Again, what is your mission for Christ? SMV usually comes as you embrace God's mission (e.g. being excellent in all you do for the glory of God). If you have this right frame of mind, why worry about it?
If you don't know your mission, you have bigger problems than women.
To answer the questions...
You can know if she is attracted to you based on how she acts around you. Does she respect you? Does she always want to be around you and talk with you and touch you? Is she interested in your life? Or is it just infatuation or she's acting a certain way because she wants to be in a relationship?
Don't be alone with her. Focus on your own self control.
Go to God about it and see if it's something you can get over. If you can't then it's neither right or wrong and just move on. If it is, you can precede. She may have longer term issue, and that's generally something you can help with but it's better if she talks it over with a mentor.
Same sex accountability partners are better in my experience.
[–]maximillian2[S] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
This is what I'm wondering about. She seems to give some signs of attraction, like planning on a month long trip to see me, planning events for us when I go to a large city to give a talk and see her, etc. But with RP knowledge I want a woman who genuinely desires me, and the fact she didn't allow me to kiss her makes me feel/think that she doesn't.
Last time I visited her, she basically said she would kiss me if I would commit to at least looking for work in her country for a couple years. I said no. It seems like "negotiated attraction," which is not attraction at all, but could also be she didn't want to give herself to another man who would end up leaving.
[–]Deep_StrengthMod | Married | deepstrength.wordpress.com0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn't say there's enough info to know if she's attracted to you or not based on what you provided (it could be both that she's attracted but not as much as with the other stuff).
However,
The more concerning point here is not attraction but the fact that she thinks she can leverage kissing (and this is the same attitude as leveraging sex in marriage) to get you to do things.
Physical intimacy and sex should never be a weapon that any spouse holds over the other (freely given to each spouse in 1 Corinthians 7). If you want to be with her you need to nip that in the bud and tell her that these things are not transactions and never should be.
If she doesn't repent of that attitude after you telling her I'd personally just move on. A woman that will continue to do this will do this with sex in marriage, and it's going to be a lot of frustration on your end because withholding sex is usually very painful for men.
[–]1justmadethisaccount4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I think most of these issues stem from you being a virgin and her not being a virgin. If you can’t get over that then you probably shouldn’t be with her. Pray to God and really mediate on if you can live with that. Honestly it’s hard to find a virgin, and it sounds like if you get over that you guys will be fine.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
First of all, never talk about your emotions and weaknesses(i.e. masturbation) with a woman. That's what your boys are for. Your real team mates in life are men, who are gonna push you to become better physically, spiritually, etc. Women are too fickle.
Second of all, it seems you caught oneitis by the rhetoric you're using. There's no way you're gonna "heal" her, and there's no way you're gonna "build" her up to be the perfect wife you're envisioning in your head.
If I were you, I would play a bit of dread game. Don't text or initiative for a couple weeks, and use that time to focus on yourself, hang out with your boys, and talk to new girls. If she's worth it then she'll come chase after you; don't let it be the other way around.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You need to pray about how to handle her sexual past. She is a person, and ultimately deserves your respect, but you have to really go deep and clear to see if you will truly respect her. I know many good women that were pushed by men, you already have experienced that push on yourself, just imagine it being 100 times bigger for women. I think you are more mature than she is, and your approach is right: your mission might be to become her husband or to be a friend that helped built her up spiritually.
1 and 2) You will both define the timing. Sexual tensions are handled through communication and through building intimacy. 4) I think it's a good idea, I don't think it will hurt your relationship, if handled correctly she will be aware of your needs.
3) It's a sensitive issue, but one that you can both work on. She needs healing, but you also need healing for what she went through. Tackle it together.