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I don't think STFU ever fails in my marriage

October 25, 2019
13 upvotes

This is pretty basic stuff, but just sharing some of my observations and experiences and looking for feedback.

My wife and I used to fight a lot. This has naturally reduced, as I've begun to better Own My Ship^(tm) and become more attractive (or at least reduced being unattractive).

Fights usually revolved around how I had... failed to do something I was supposed to, did something I wasn't supposed to, did the thing wrong, etc, etc. In the past I would DEER. This would look like:

-defend myself (justify my action or inaction with logical exposition)
-deflect blame back on my wife (well, I may have done the dishes poorly but that's because I didn't have time to do them properly because you don't do XYZ well enough)

-"agree" (this was done passive aggressively, to end the fight and justify holding on to bitterness against her)

This morning my wife texted me how she was upset that I didn't do the 3 things she wanted me to do while she was away hanging out with family for 5 days.

In the past I would've ….

pointed out that she got to go have fun for 5 days, so why should I have to work.

pointed out that I'd never agreed to complete said tasks.

pointed out that I had been doing XYZ other important tasks.

pointed out where she had failed to complete tasks I had instructed her to finish recently, etc. etc.

This would've resulted in a blow-up, yelling fight. I would've most certainly won with my strong reasoning skills and excellent logical points. Commence bitter sexual drought, passive-aggressive behaviour spiral.

I spent my 5 days doing a mix of fun things, and work related things that aligned with my goals for my home, business and family.

I replied "Yeah, I didn't do those, I had other priorities", she called those priorities selfish, I just said "true". I would've been so scared to simply own my choices in the past, but it's so freeing to do so.

Her texts then moved on to logistical questions and I don't think this will come up again.

Of course, I think when I have really arrived... my wife won't feel the need to try and assign me a task list because she'll be too busy trying to meet my expectations.

But... I think I'm seeing progress?

My big question... should I have even texted her back?

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Post Information
Title I don't think STFU ever fails in my marriage
Author cdnrpc
Upvotes 13
Comments 28
Date October 25, 2019 6:15 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RPChristians
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/i-dont-think-stfu-ever-fails-in-my-marriage.301071
https://theredarchive.com/post/301071
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/dn1eu4/i_dont_think_stfu_ever_fails_in_my_marriage/
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Comments

[–]Willow-girlParticipation Trophy Wife9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Fights usually revolved around how I had... failed to do something I was supposed to, did something I wasn't supposed to, did the thing wrong, etc, etc. In the past I would DEER.

Maybe, instead of DEERing, you might want to try ... not screwing up in the first place?

Just a thought.

[–]SubhumanOxford5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm assuming you're woman?

If you're a man, I'm sure you have never been with a woman

[–]Willow-girlParticipation Trophy Wife0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I'm a woman, which is why I find posts like the OP's mildly amusing. He thinks the solution to his problem is to continue messing up but to no longer apologize for it, and assure his wife that he doesn't care how she thinks or feels!

Now, how well do you think that's gonna go over?!

The real solution is so simple, and yet ... sigh

[–]cdnrpc[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I tried the "simple solution" for about 4 years -- just buckle down and follow her leadership even better -- do those dishes just the way she instructed, put the bowl in the exact proper cupboard according to her directions, prioritize her more by cutting out hobbies, friends ... etc.

Maybe it wasn't clear. IT DIDN'T MATTER WHAT I DID OR DIDN'T DO.

When I put my wife on a pedestal, tried desperately to do whatever she decided was our priority, and generally handed over my balls...then we always ended up fighting. Because it wasn't really about which cupboard the salad bowl is in (it goes on the top shelf under the colander BTW). It was about the fact I was a emotionally and physically unattractive, and failed to lead.

I've still got work to do for sure, on my own work ethic, as well as my leadership skills. But, now that I'm at least attempting to lead, these fights don't happen as often or with the same intensity.

The sex is getting better too, which is nice.

[–]Willow-girlParticipation Trophy Wife5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I tried the "simple solution" for about 4 years -- just buckle down and follow her leadership even better --

You are a grown man with agency. Why do you need your wife's leadership? Why can't you look around and see what needs to be done and take care of it, rather than waiting to be nagged to do your chores like a recalcitrant 13-year-old kid? And undoubtedly expecting an "Attaboy" and a pat on the head afterwards?

This is your real problem.

You know why I'm not nagging my man to help me with the housework? Because he got up, had his breakfast and went off to do stuff outside. I think he's burning the burn pile. No I didn't go out to see what he was up to; I don't need to give him instructions. He can run his own day. I have faith that whatever he's up to, he's working in good faith on something mutually beneficial. (I've been working too; I just sat down for a minute here in between tasks.)

Your goal here is to be a man who is so busy doing valuable stuff that your wife wouldn't dare interrupt you do something so minor as put away the dishes. Because what you're already doing is at least an equally valuable contribution. You know you're winning at this game when she brings you a drink or a snack or offers to help.

[–]macmeeler0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro do the chores for her but only because you want them done too. Why aren't you organized in the first place? And if you don't want them done, tell her they're not important to you. And be cool about it.

[–]macmeeler6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why aren't you taking care of your duties though? She picked you because she trusted that you were someone that can do what she considers basic stuff. You mentioned that you didn't agree to do them. Why didn't you lovingly tell her when she asks right then and there? Probably because you fear the argument. The second you get defensive is the second you start caring wayyyy tooo much about whether she's got her facts straight and is judging you fairly, it's the same second you lose confidence in your own vision and frame. I don't know anything about your or her but it sounds like you could really learn to have some bloody fun. Petty, enraged arguments are for children and foolish men. Disagreements are for adults but I don't know why you should have to disagree with her, she has the right to expect her husband to be a man. If you do argue, I recommend you do it with plenty of positive energy and humor in the mix so you can maintain a mutual sense of comfort in the conversation instead of delving into what you both know to be resentment and pain.

I replied "Yeah, I didn't do those, I had other priorities", she called those priorities selfish, I just said "true". I would've been so scared to simply own my choices in the past, but it's so freeing to do so.

It's a solid response, but I don't know her and it's obviously pretty curt so maybe she will resent you more for being lazy, unfriendly and uninteresting. Women still want a husband who's gentle to them. They just want him to be a viking too.

Of course, I think when I have really arrived... my wife won't feel the need to try and assign me a task list because she'll be too busy trying to meet my expectations.

Dude, why is this your life? Why don't you receive her task list, self-regulate, get it done like a man, and move on to all the other stuff you care about? You see this situation the same way a child sees it as unfair for his mother to demand him to help with chores. Why don't you take care of everything she asks and more because you're the guy that makes her life amazing. This fixation on RPC principles seems to me more like displaced rationalizations justifying your responsibility avoidance. Bang your head to some Tupac while you mow the lawn with one hand and curl some weights in the other for goodness sake. You're a child.

[–]cdnrpc[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why don't you receive her task list, self-regulate, get it done like a man, and move on to all the other stuff you care about?

I self-regulated, her task list fell off the bottom of my priorities.

You're not my wife, so I can probably reason with you without getting accused of DEERing, right?

Sure, I could've prioritized her desire for me to put up our Christmas lights in October -- not sure how well Green and Red goes with Orange and Black but whatever

... but instead I made a trip to another city where I needed to take care of issues with a rental property I own and secure a new tenant, had a night out with some friends, lifted, and managed my business.

[–]Willow-girlParticipation Trophy Wife2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem is that she evidently asked you to do this and you led her to believe (either by silence or affirmation) that you would fulfill the request ... thus your failure to do so is viewed as ... a failure.

Don't blow off stuff like this; it's passive-aggressive. If you think her request is unreasonable (like putting up Xmas lights in October), say so. Be forthright, like a man, not like a kid who tells Mommy what she wants to hear to avoid confrontation. Women don't respect men who are afraid of them.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelEndorsed, MRP Mod4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love me a good STFU.

[–]CarelessBowler56 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

When you get the things done and pursue your priorities, you're making progress.

There are some projects around the house that I let languish. When she brought it up (even disrespectfully) my conscience still sang in my ear, "She's right, you know. You futzed around on Reddit instead of fixing that thing."

STFU and fix the thing. Get it done. Give her only 100% confidence that you're the sort of man who gets things done.

Also, your version of STFU is crap. Stop texting so much. If she's baiting you into an argument over text, the most you might say is, "We can address this when I get home."

When I'm home, and my wife is reminded of how muscular and leaderly I am in person, these conversations go much, much differently than they ever did over text.

[–]cdnrpc[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Also, your version of STFU is crap. Stop texting so much. If she's baiting you into an argument over text, the most you might say is, "We can address this when I get home."

Agreed, this is where I think I could have improved.

When I'm home, and my wife is reminded of how muscular and leaderly I am in person

I hope I can be a muscular and leaderly as you some day.

[–]CarelessBowler50 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Be better than me.

Yeah, I don't have petty arguments anymore.

But still a dead bedroom.

Last night I messed up. Lost frame. Got butthurt.

It's a long road.

And no more alcohol. I've noticed I only seem to really mess up after I've had booze. Maybe that wouldn't be a problem if the sex things were napping. But since they're not, a little bit of alcohol screws up all the self-control I need day-to-day.

[–]redwall921 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe that wouldn't be a problem if the sex things were napping

https://giffiles.alphacoders.com/816/81606.gif

Becoming a favorite of mine...

[–]rocknrollchuckMod | 50M | Married 11 yrs4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My big question... should I have even texted her back?

Text is mainly for logistics. But what you did worked, and you also avoided a face to face argument later on. So if it works, that's what matters. This will be different for each person according to the unique details of their spouse and relationship, so it's a YMMV thing. Don't overthink it - if it works, then that's what matters.

I've begun to better Own My Shiptm

This is awesome, I love it!

[–]Dan_M71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“Yeah I didn’t do those. I had other priorities”

That’s a really perfect thing you said, man. I’m going to start using that phrase too.

Not doing something is not a failure when more important stuff had to be done, and sometimes people who are quick to criticize forget that.

Keep it up!

[–]lololasaurusEndorsed | 37M | Married 8 Yrs1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

To STFU is human, but to AA/AM is divine.

(Don't feel bad, I'm still working on just being human most of the time 👀)

[–]cdnrpc[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

To STFU is human, but to AA/AM is divine.

Agreed, biggest takeaway is I should've saved this for home. I think her wanting me to put up Xmas lights before halloween could've opened the door for some great AA/AM in person.

[–]OGLeonLio0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Out of curiosity what is STFU. I must have the wrong interpretation of it.

[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

STFU is Shut the F**k Up

Instead of feeling like you should answer or address a question, comment or situation, just STFU. There's no law or unwritten rule that says one has to answer.

Because usually, depending on one's answer (if you give one), it can lead to more arguments, etc. so it's recommended to practice STFU.

If one thinks an answer is good and warranted, give one. If not, don't.

STFU can apply to men and women.

u/OGLeonLio and u/crisperrgk

[–]OptimusRP1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nooby here. How does STFU apply when I just feel like talking to my wife? I get the impression (especially on MRP) that women are to be treated as children and not taken seriously. But what if I actually want to connect with my wife and talk to her about my day? Can I do this without violating STFU?

[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

STFU is a tool in the toolbox.

Use it as often or as infrequent as you like. The same with other things such as AA (Agree and Amplify) or AM (Amused Mastery), etc.

These are usually (but not always) employed in response to fitness tests, or to address negative situations or to defuse or handle various issues.

Or sometimes, there's no issue or outburst to address. A man may simply not feel like talking. If not, don't.

Of course, there's basic common sense and decency. If someone asks you something, or tries talking to you, you don't need to stand there and just glare at them or look away and say nothing, although you can if you want.

Out of politeness or respect, I may give a brief answer or short reply to a question or comment, but I also don't have to open up and share every detail or thought just because someone expects me to or demands it or says "but this is how relationships work" or anything else.

The same works in reverse. Maybe you try and talk to someone and they have no desire to have an in depth conversation at that moment, for any number of reasons. Just go about your day and focus on your mission.

Time and place.

There's a time and place for everything.

If you enjoy talking to your wife, then talk to her. Enjoy it as much as you like!

[–]OptimusRP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. This was very helpful.

[–]OGLeonLio0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah, so I did have the right interpretation of it. Thanks for clarifying that u/redpillwonder

Sounds like your becoming a sponge. Been there done that. That desire to not fight but having to STFU in place of having your voice... Well I know where that rabbit hole leads to.

The difference is, I wasn't married and had no kids to keep me around, eventually after a year of cohabiting (living together paying bills but the relationship wasn't there) with her, I finally had enough and left.

I'd argue that, if your not able to have your voice and as a team come to a 50/50 compromise the relationship is doomed from the start. Having a handicap compromise puts one person higher than the other and that's where the trouble starts. Ultimately, they subconsciously test that line and push it further back until, your voice is gone. Which prompts you to tread carefully and become a sponge.

u/cdnrpc

[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, no prob.

Sounds like your becoming a sponge. Been there done that.

I'm not sure who you intended to reply to here, whether the OP, another commenter or me. If me, I was giving a definition of STFU, not describing a personal situation.

And in that definition, STFU for a man isn't losing his voice or being a sponge, it's simply deciding you don't need to answer or address something simply because someone else thinks you need to. Most men feel the need to DEER.

Instead, you can let your actions and body language speak for you.

STFU is a tool. One can use it however they like.

Edit: Re-reading your reply, I realize you tagged the OP, and the rest of your comment was directed to him. Makes more sense. Initially, I thought the tag was for another commenter, who also wanted to know about STFU.

[–]crisperrgk1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’d like to know as well

[–]TreyMagnus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I am new to this site and might be a little confused but IMO, much of this misses the real point. If we are supposed to be approaching marriage as Christians, then the real thing we need to be doing as husbands is teaching our wives the Word of God and much of these types of problems will disappear. I say this from experience.

(Ephesians 5:25-27 ) "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless."

Men, we are to be washing our wives in the water of the word to help remove her spots and blemishes. i.e. Help her in her sanctification process. This is how Jesus loves (His bride) the church. (Philippians 1:6) " For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."

In this case, you need to explain to your wife that YOU are the head, you are HER head and she is supposed to submit to YOU in every thing, not the other way around. The head makes the decisions and the body submits and follows the instructions given by the head. (Ephesians 5:22-24) "Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

She was created for you. (1 Corinthians 11:8-9) " For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man."

And she is to show you the utmost respect. (Ephesians 5:33b) "... and the wife see that she reverence her husband."

Also explain to her that she is YOUR helper, not the other way around. (Genesis 2:18) Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

Explain that the first woman was created FOR Adam to be his companion (not good for man to be alone) and helper (suitable for him). Not the other way around. Instead of putting up with your wife giving you orders, instructions and lists of things to do, tell her that she is free to respectfully ASK for you to do something for her or around the house but what you actually choose to do is up to you and if/when you do it is completely at your discretion. Also make is very clear that from now on, anything that she dictates to you or demands disrespectfully will just be ignored and she should not even bother asking about it and if she does, no response will be given.

If she is a true Christian, someone who actually says she loves Jesus and says that she is following Him, then the Word of God just cannot be ignored. My wife had been in church for decades including Sunday school, church, women bible studies and retreats and I was amazed at the first time I quoted Ephesians 5:24 to her and she looked me right in the eye and said "that's not what it says". Then when I showed it to her in the Bible she got this strange look on her face and said "well that's not what it means". Then I said "Well what does it mean then?" and she got quiet. I showed her Colossians 3:18 and 1 Peter 3:1-6 and she was stunned. It took a while, and some guidance from an older Godly woman in the church but she finally came around and these days I would never get a text like the one you received.

I am all for holding Frame and many of the other things discussed in Red Pill and they can certainly help but there is no substitute for understanding and obeying Gods Word.

As for answering your specific question, I think you did fine with the text answer you gave. It is certainly a step in the right direction and now you need to build upon it by explaining proper Biblical Gender Roles to your wife and then start living them out and encouraging her to do the same. Lovingly call your wife on her sin and call her to repentance. Encourage her by acknowledging when she does good and lovingly call her on her sin when she does not. You can't wash off all of those spots and blemishes at one time but gently, over time, you can can make a lot of progress.

[–]RedPillWonderMod | American man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am new to this site

Welcome!

Look for posts and comments by mods or endorsed contributors, and you'll get a better understanding of our viewpoints and positions.

Your comment and scripture quotes have been stated here many times before by the mods and others, and u/Deep_Strength often quotes and clarifies Ephesians for others in saying husbands are to love their wives in ways that lead them to sanctification.

Always good to have friendly reminders for everyone.

Again, welcome and join in as often as you can!

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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