No / Bad Sex - Always His Fault?

Deep_Strength · 2020-04-28T21:05:03+00:00

There's a lot of weird conventional (and wrong) RP thinking where women have no moral agency to women in these comments. Many things in a marriage may not be a man's fault.

She is convinced that she "just has low libido." She shows affection to me in other ways on a very regular basis, including physical affection (leaning into me, wanting to hold my hand even when we're sitting down, hugging and kissing me, wanting to cuddle, etc...). I flirt with her on a regular basis, including physical flirting (randomly grabbing / slapping her butt, kissing her neck and rubbing hit boobs from behind, etc...) and she will respond positively to it. But, when it comes to actually getting into bed, she has to really work hard to exhibit any desire.

So here's the question: Is this on me? I can't be the only Christian guy in this situation. But all I see on here is either divorce (not an option) or "Man up, get in shape, etc.." (which honestly doesn't seem to be the problem). I'm all for self-improvement and taking responsibility for yourself first, but when I honestly look at myself, I think I'm doing a pretty damn good job as a husband. I can't think of any reason she shouldn't be attracted to me, and as far as I can tell, outside of the bedroom, she's totally attracted to me. So, is there a possibility that she has a problem? Is it possible that many Christian women have psychological issues about sex being dirty, shameful, or taboo, and that this causes unhealthy sex lives in marriage? Is it possible that not every marital problem boils down to the man not being "alpha" enough?

No, I don't think it's only on you.

My wife is similar in some respects. Getting buffer if she is more aroused by that can help, but women can have hangups that will negatively affect their sex drive. She needs to be open to explore them though which can be an issue. My wife was/is open about things that turn her off or mentalities that detract from fully letting go and enjoying the experience. The most common ones are that women think sex is dirty other ones you get from Christian purity movement.

Part of the problem is that penetration can be painful for her no matter how gentle I am (I think this might partially be due to her not being in the mood), but she won't let me use my fingers or mouth as an alternative (she thinks oral is disgusting). So it's just not pleasurable for her. And in that case, I don't blame her. But if she'd let me go down on her or use my fingers, she'd probably enjoy it more and might even get more naturally lubed up for penetration.

Physical therapy can help with vaginismus or any other types of pain during penetration. I've known a few couples who have had to do that. Psychologically, this is probably the main reason why your wife isn't super into sex. It sucks when it's painful.

I think the sex is dirty with the oral probably also plays a role. These two things are things you should address more fully. My wife thought oral was weird at first, but I convinced her to try it and now she loves it.

One thing that actually helped my wife be more free about sex (she's never denied me, but never really wanted to jump my bones for initiation) is to have a month where you have sex everyday. For the first couple weeks it was about standard, but after two weeks she started to be more warm and initiating them herself a lot more. Sex does bond and the feelings of closeness you have on a regular basis do help her get more "in the mood" regularly.

Overall, it's not really just that my wife had "low libido" like yours at first. She needed to work through a bunch of her own hang ups, and we had to expect and have sex much more often to get her on track with the fact that sex and intimacy is good and she should let herself go and enjoy it fully.

Red-Curious · 2020-04-28T21:19:41+00:00

Been there, done that. In worse of a context than you're describing. I had the same questions and concerns you did. Turns out AWALT, even my special snowflake of a wife that even MRP guys told me was an outlier.

So, is there a possibility that she has a problem?

Of course.

Is it possible that many Christian women have psychological issues about sex being dirty, shameful, or taboo, and that this causes unhealthy sex lives in marriage?

Absolutely. My wife had these exact problems and deep-seated psychological reservations too.

Is it possible that not every marital problem boils down to the man not being "alpha" enough?

Absolutely.

What you're missing in the above questions is that you're ultimately trying to force yourself into a box where you can psychologically accept your fate instead of actually doing something about it.

My kids break things in my house. It's annoying. It's 100% totally their fault. I don't get to have my house free of broken things the way I want. How useful is it for me to say, "Welp, it's not my fault; it's my kids' fault. I guess I'm just going to have to deal with a house full of broken things"? That's not at all useful!

Instead, I'm going to have to take measures that other people may not have to deal with. Why? Because as much as AKidsALT, mine are UNIQUELY like that in a way that surpasses what others have to deal with. So, I I I I I I I I I I I (not them) have to take UNIQUE measures in my own house hold to achieve my own goals.

Why? Because it's not my kids' goal in life to avoid breaking things. It's not your wife's goal in life to figure out how to make herself horny. If you want her to figure out how to be horny for you, that's on you. Yes, she's got problems. What girl doesn't? No, this doesn't even sound like a unique problem. It sounds like an incredibly common one. You just haven't figured out that part of your life that isn't measuring up.

Heck, when I first started on MRP, people were telling me over there that my wife was one of the true unique hopeless cases because she was so psychologically damaged about sex by her parents and had so heavily ingrained the "sex is painful" mentality in all of our sexual experiences for the first 7+ years of our marriage that there really was no hope for a turnaround. I was told that she was what Rollo called "outliers" - the few girls who simply won't respond to normal red pill tactics.

It turns out I just wasn't as awesome as I thought I was. A couple months later, everything turned around. Her "this is definitely 100% absolutely a physical pain, not a psychological issue" vaginismus turned out to be a psychological issue that she hasn't complained about once since I'd red-pilled myself.

So, you're in one of two places:

Your self-evaluation is off and you're really not as awesome as you think you are; or
You truly are among the Channing Tatums and Chris Hemsworths of men and she's got unique problems that she doesn't care to fix on her own and even Brad Pitt coming onto her wouldn't make her horny, so you're going to:

(a) accept it and deal with the problem for the rest of your life,
(b) compromise your faith by divorcing her in the hope Wife 2.0 is more easily aroused than her, and that this doesn't come with some other trade-off, or
(c) consider the path toward her sexual recovery a journey of unknown duration that you will choose to lead her along.

That being said, because you're so hung up on "she will do this, she won't do that" and "she thinks this or that," I'm about 99% confident you're still living in her frame, and thus the first option is 99% likely. Even if you're in your own frame, she's OBVIOUSLY not in your frame yet. Why not? There's clearly more to this story that we're missing.

EDIT: Also, you ever look into Madonna-Whore Complex?

IsAllThisReal · 2020-04-28T22:23:58+00:00

Not everything in your marriage is your fault, but it is your responsibility, so fault becomes relevant only in diagnosing the problem. Is it a problem with your wife physically, mentally, emotionally, or is it a problem with your actions, attitude, or leadership?

I think there is a foolish notion in TRP circles that all relationship dynamics obey the laws of 'relational physics'. For every actions there is a predictable reaction. And in many ways this is true, there are fundamental laws of attraction and of psychology that dictate how we behave. But this often disregards the intricacies of situations in favor of saying 'You have failed to follow the laws, therefore it is obvious why you are failing'.

The issue is these laws are the same as laws in physics: Newtonian mechanics perfectly describes a baseball tossed in the air, but it does not describe, say, the trajectory of an ionized plasma in a magnetic field. Does that make Newtonian mechanics wrong? ...well sort of, but if it works so well for everything within its scope, that who cares? This is why we ask you to give your stats and some background, it gives some insight into your actions and your character. So maybe your situation is an ionized plasma, but its more likely that its a baseball tossed in the air.

I'm not married, so I have no specific advice for you, and I can't tell you if its your fault or not, but I can say if anyone is going to fix it, it will have to be you. And you've taken a good step towards that, which is asking for help.

RunawayGrain · 2020-04-28T20:26:56+00:00

First question: What are your stats?

I'm all for self-improvement and taking responsibility for yourself first, but when I honestly look at myself, I think I'm doing a pretty damn good job as a husband. I can't think of any reason she shouldn't be attracted to me, and as far as I can tell, outside of the bedroom, she's totally attracted to me.

Yeah, lot's of guys feel that. The proof is in the pudding, though, since she isn't inclined to have sex.

So, is there a possibility that she has a problem?

Yeah, and it's possible that the problem is that you don't get her motor revved up. The bottom line is she's giving out obligation sex and not "I'm into it sex." Other than "hey I'm awesome" you aren't giving any info about how you are addressing things.

TheChristianAlpha · 2020-04-28T20:30:05+00:00

For starters, what are your stats? Basic rule #2 mate....don't be lazy.

Stats: body fat, height, weight, lifts, etc.
Reading: Which sidebar content you've read (RPC and/or MRP)
Finances: Current job and income quality, future prospects, debt issues
Spiritual: How mature you are, how often you pray, have quiet times, share your faith, memorize Scripture, etc.

Edit your post with those in their then we can talk.

CarelessBowler5 · 2020-04-28T21:42:59+00:00

Are you sexually attractive? Are you hot (not just physically)? My sex life in my marriage didn't improve until after other women started propositioning me.

Maybe it's not your fault. But here's the thing: As far as you're concerned, it's your fault.

You can't change your wife. You can change you. "Self-development" doesn't really get at what we do around here.

operationveritas · 2020-04-28T21:33:07+00:00

I might still be a bit new here but if you read 109 in the sidebar material by u/Red-Curious it goes over this. It’s a pretty good read actually and a nice eye opener.

Hope this helps you out a bit more but there are people on here that know waaay more about this than I do.

NoWakeZone7 · 2020-05-02T00:16:42+00:00

Hey OP, you are getting a lot of advice here from a single mindset. Here are a few new things to chew on.

Try looking up first. If you are close with God then you should be able to hear His direction through the Holy Spirit. Maybe He is trying to teach you something by being in this trial. Maybe it’s the way you tithe, or a heart posture issue, or making this a little ‘g’.

Lead your wife by example in your walk with Jesus. It is unlikely she will submit to you until she first submits to Him. She could also be battling intense spiritual warfare and not even know it. Are you two praying and studying together?

Marriage is a mystery, only the Holy Spirit can help you navigate, so look there first before getting buried in worldly advice otherwise you could be chasing your tail for a long time.

johnmic07 · 2020-04-28T20:55:51+00:00

You've read "most of it, but haven't kept a detailed log." You "haven't measured BF in a while so I'm not sure".

There really isn't much to say here: You're lazy. You haven't done the work, you aren't holding yourself accountable, probably aren't doing OYS. You're just blaming your wife for the fact that she isn't attracted to you and looking for us to validate you. That is not a red pill approach to marriage.

Read MMSLP, NMMNG, and WISNIFG. Implement what they teach, and then post.

Willow-girl · 2020-04-29T12:43:36+00:00

A diagnostic question: Was sex always this way, or was she more into it in the beginning?

I don't mean to be hurtful, but your technique may be ... in need of improvement. Maybe the way you go down on her is painful, but she's too inhibited to say so, or doesn't want to hurt your feelings?

If she is young (not menopausal) and isn't naturally lubricating, she's not aroused, and yes sex is probably going to be very uncomfortable! :-o

You need to figure out what turns her on. This can be more or less difficult depending on how much inhibition and shame are in the picture. If she won't show you or tell you what she likes, you need to be very, very aware of the cues she's giving you during sex, especially foreplay. Tensing up or attempting to shift positions can be nonverbal cues that what you're doing isn't working for her or may even be downright painful. Sex toys can be a handy shortcut to arousal, but they create intense sensation that can be painful, so proceed with caution ... it's best to let her be in the driver's seat, so to speak.

If you can get her talking, in a general way, about sex, kinks, "something you read or heard about somewhere," in a non-threatening way, you may be able to pry some helpful information out of her. It's important to be non-judgmental here, as she may be very shy about revealing herself, and any signs of disapproval may drive her sexuality back underground, perhaps forever.

If she has a lot of (perhaps religiously inspired) inhibition and shame, it may help to figure out ways to let her be sexual without it being "her fault" ... like role-playing, bondage or other scenarios in which she isn't "responsible" for what goes on or for liking what's supposed to be "dirty."

AlanNoles · 2020-04-29T21:05:06+00:00

I get what your getting at and sometimes all the RP jargon irritates me as well. It can feel like a one upper courtroom where someone claims to know more than you do or that someone is reading into something to much.

It’s hard to make an assessment of someone in one block of text without knowing more information. That’s why stats and an introduction is so important.

As for your wife’s sexual desire? I felt like that to. I also thought my wife lost her sexual desire. It was not until I saw my wife licking her lips for Adam Levine in the SB halftime show of 2019 that I realized I was playing myself and how true RP truths are.

At that point I started posting in OYS weekly. Yeah sometimes the advice was brutal and I tried my best to implement it. I am in a way better spot now marriage wise then I was back then. I still have a long way to go and will face many challenges especially with a kid on the way but I am 99% sure I would be a divorced man by now or in a very unhappy marriage if I did not make changes.

The best thing about OYS is it helps you examine your frame on a weekly basis as well as get feedback from other males who view whatever your going through from a different lens and the actions they would take. Then you have a full week to make those changes and get feedback again next week (from yourself reflecting which is the most important; and tools/practical situation advice from others which you can use if you want to).

It’s your marriage. Do what you want with that info. 99% of the time at least in my case those “reframes” were exactly what I needed even if I did not like them.

Good luck man. I hope to see you in OYS.

blkout212 · 2020-04-30T01:10:06+00:00

Christianity regularly shames sexual activity. So yeah it’s possible that there is some disinterest due to that. Or you know she just isn’t into it. Which is fine. A lot of people are eh about sex. It’s not the only thing that matters.

NoWakeZone7 · 2020-05-02T00:16:46+00:00

Hey OP, you are getting a lot of advice here from a single mindset. Here are a few new things to chew on.

Try looking up first. If you are close with God then you should be able to hear His direction through the Holy Spirit. Maybe He is trying to teach you something by being in this trial. Maybe it’s the way you tithe, or a heart posture issue, or making this a little ‘g’.

Lead your wife by example in your walk with Jesus. It is unlikely she will submit to you until she first submits to Him. She could also be battling intense spiritual warfare and not even know it. Are you two praying and studying together?

Marriage is a mystery, only the Holy Spirit can help you navigate, so look there first before getting buried in worldly advice otherwise you could be chasing your tail for a long time.

NoWakeZone7 · 2020-05-02T00:17:04+00:00

Hey OP, you are getting a lot of advice here from a single mindset. Here are a few new things to chew on.

Try looking up first. If you are close with God then you should be able to hear His direction through the Holy Spirit. Maybe He is trying to teach you something by being in this trial. Maybe it’s the way you tithe, or a heart posture issue, or making this a little ‘g’.

Lead your wife by example in your walk with Jesus. It is unlikely she will submit to you until she first submits to Him. She could also be battling intense spiritual warfare and not even know it. Are you two praying and studying together?

Marriage is a mystery, only the Holy Spirit can help you navigate, so look there first before getting buried in worldly advice otherwise you could be chasing your tail for a long time.

luvlace87 · 2020-05-03T05:54:03+00:00

Could she be gay? That seems to be an issue with a lot of sex lives. Tolerating the foreplay and even engaging but when it comes to the sex she just can’t bring herself to enjoy it. You should have a conversation with her and work this out.

Rifleshoot · 2020-05-03T14:06:30+00:00

Is your wife on birth control? I can tell you that that has a real effect on a woman’s libido, outside of your own attractiveness. My wife was as asexual as could be. We finally got her off birth control in January in preparation for trying to get pregnant, and her libido has never been stronger. We had sex 5 or 6 times in the last week. There might be something about the idea of her getting pregnant that turns her on, but we aren’t even trying yet. If you truly believe that it’s not something you are doing wrong (which it very well could be, it usually is), then look into what birth control your wife uses. Either switch it, or get her to stop using it altogether.

montereyk · 2020-04-29T04:10:07+00:00

Maybe your ego is a turn off to her. Was for me reading this.

Title	No / Bad Sex - Always His Fault?
Author	MrSexIsGood
Upvotes	21
Comments	36
Date	April 28, 2020 8:20 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/g9urd3/no_bad_sex_always_his_fault/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/no-bad-sex-always-his-fault.657663 https://theredarchive.com/post/657663