Thoughts on Proverbs 5?

lololasaurus · 2019-05-30T14:00:15+00:00

God's truth is timeless. It applies now.

While there is a lot of truth to the term AWALT, there are virtuous converted women. They will still fitness test you. They will still be subject to the curse. But they haven't all been promiscuous.

They tend to marry young; they still have the same desires, ya know?

And while I'm not going to willingly contribute further to the born again virgin nonsense where we're supposed to not prefer "debt free virgins" because that takes power away from the majority of women who aren't even close to that, there is some truth that a truly converted women is just like me. I was an adulterer before God made me new. I was a wicked fellow, captive to lust, captive to sin. Then God converted me at the most base level.

I personally suspect that a lot of the women who have a problem with the idea that men might prefer debt free virgins are really not converted, but are just "converted" in the sense that they get to shed their past like a snake shedding its skin and lock down a Christian man to dominate and manipulate without any deep heart change.

But I know a few who, in my imperfect judgment, have truly experienced heart conversion and it's obvious. They are submissive to their husbands publicly and completely. They don't try to brush off their past ("only God can judge me" nonsense - that should scare you, woman!) but they are also respectful of their husbands in it. Let the one who can discern, discern. I'm a sinner. I'm a prize in one sense, but I was no virgin either. I would always recommend finding a wife who has not been on the carousel. But there ARE women who were converted later in life, and are truly converted.

But either way. It applies now. It's God's word and he isn't one who changes. You just gotta find the 7000 who haven't bent knee to Baal.

RunawayGrain · 2019-05-30T12:19:24+00:00

It seems like these verses can't be applied to today because even if a man of faith stays sexually abstinent until marriage he is still likely to end up with someone that did not do the same for him.

Yeah, but one thing seems to be projected from your post. You haven't developed an "I am the prize" mentality, exactly. If you are aware you're high quality goods, you expect high quality in return. If you're not getting it, no sweat, there's always more.

Also, I especially agree with verse 20 but it doesn't seem to line up with what I've pointed out above. Why should we be trapped by immoral women? Is there even an option for most of us? I'm not saying it's impossible. Just unrealistic.

Ecclesiastes 7:28:

which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: One man among a thousand have I found, but a woman among all those have I not found.

and Proverbs 31:10:

A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies.

So even in Solomon's time, finding a morally upright woman was difficult, and the implication is that finding one is far more rare and precious than rubies.

I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say that what Proverbs describes is the honeymoon phase, which eventually fades, but the Proverb is reminding men to love a wife like that as long as possible.

dusty_dungarees · 2019-05-30T12:42:01+00:00

For us, the romance has only increased with time in our marriage! It is good to pray for a spouse but also to be able to have the same grace and forgiveness Christ has for the repented heart.

Deep_Strength · 2019-05-30T18:15:23+00:00

Lurker specified correctly: the verse you're talking about is a man's sexual desire for a wife.

I don't know if women like this even exist in western civilization. And if they do, they are far and in-between. For every 10 men that can stay promiscuous, there might be 1 woman. Maybe. Because even church girls today are sleeping around and becoming "immoral" and don't control their bodies. It seems like these verses can't be applied to today because even if a man of faith stays sexually abstinent until marriage he is still likely to end up with someone that did not do the same for him.

I for one am trying hard to be that guy and hopefully get lucky with the woman I end up with but it is very hard to stay motivated to do that when I look at the state of western men and women right now. I can't compete with the guys that don't care about this sort of stuff. And in the end, I'm worried I'll get a girl that is 'born again virgin' BS or just off the CC and hiding it. I'd have no way of knowing.

The amount of Christian women virgins in the 21-24 range is around 30-40% or so at least in the study mentioned here.
Also, "very often" Church attendance also means about 30% virginity for Christian women.
Married parents (30%) vs divorce/single (20%)
Very often to often (30-35%) vs occasionally childhood church attendance (~10%)

They're not rare (5% of non-Christians stay virgins til marriage), but they are fewer in number than even 50%.

However, the reason why we stay sexually abstinent is because we want to be obey God. Not because we can get a virgin in our marriage. Put God first.

You can always choose to only marry a virgin and that is certainly a fine prerogative. You will probably have to develop your godly mission and self into the top 20-30% of men to get one. Shouldn't be that hard, given about 40-60% of the 20-30s population is overweight or obese.

helaughsinhidden · 2019-05-30T17:12:19+00:00

This verse is the biblical wisdom that we are now calling Red Pill truths.

God knew about female nature including hypergamy and fitness tests. He knew women would grow cold at times and with hold affection as a form of control and manipulation.

He also knew men would be thirsty for validation and approval and would use sex as a way to measure it. He knew husbands would grow frustrated and resentful at being henpecked, cut off, or from constant starfish.

He knew immoral woman look jealously at married men lustfully because they are preapproved and they would device plans to steal them from away from a cold neglectful wife.

This verse is proof that He also made the husband the prize and the man's job to lead. Notice how this is a directive for husbands to "be blessed", "rejoice", "let her satisfy", "be enraptured" and to "avoid the embrace of a seductress". It's as though he is talking to the man who has already been frustrated to the point of being tempted to sleep with another woman and play the role of captain-save-a-ho. None of this is new and it is why much of what is taught in TRP/MRP matches biblical teachings.

rocknrollchuck · 2019-05-31T15:18:31+00:00

And in the end, I'm worried I'll get a girl that is 'born again virgin' BS or just off the CC and hiding it. I'd have no way of knowing.

While you can never completely eliminate this as a possibility, there are things to look for that can help you be reasonably confident in who she really is..

Bottom line is a life genuinely lived for Christ cannot be faked successfully for any length of time.

OrlandoTheAxe · 2019-05-31T03:00:24+00:00

I'm kinda where you're at. My anxiety over marriage is a faith issue. Here's the conclusion I've drawn in my own (unmarried) struggle.

God never promises his followers happy marriages or moral wives. Marriage (especially today) is so full of risk and uncertainty, it takes an act of faith to truly make that commitment. Trials at some stage are almost guaranteed.

However, God doesn't hang you out to dry. In fact, he promises work all things for the good of those who are called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28). Nothing (not even a bad marriage) will thwart Christ's love for us (Romans 8:31-39). From an eternal perspective, a believer is set no matter what God has for him/her.

With this in mind, the best choice is identify and pursue God's purpose for you. Nothing else matters (not in eternity). As you become more like the man God designed you to be, you will be better equipped to lead a wife in a God-glorifying relationship, should God provide you with one. The rest is an act of faith. Work on what you can control and trust God for that which is beyond your power.

TLDR: Yep, it's bad out there, but God's got you covered even if it's not in the way you envisioned.

CorreiaTech · 2019-06-02T17:21:46+00:00

Consider this:

Is Christ's sacrifice on the cross sufficient to atone for the sins of a young man or woman who stayed into sexual immorality?

I would say yes. In Christ, we are all new creations. A repentant man or woman who have repented of sin should not be considered lesser or disqualified to be the wife of ones youth referenced in these verses.

This passage is about delighting in the excellence of sex inside of marriage, rather than following an immoral seducer.

This verse has nothing to do with marrying only a virgin.

I have a good friend who once thought as you as well. He dated many women, trying to find the perfect girl.

Eventually, he did find a young lady who I am convinced God made specifically for him, and he for her. They are both very similar in taste, humor, interests, and passions.

When she was younger, she had fallen into sin before she was saved.

This did not matter to my friend, as he had found the wife of his youth.

They (aside from my spouse and I) are the two most loving and affectionate could I know.

So take that for what it's worth, and pray to God that he will help you to love your future spouse, whoever she may be.

Stay the course.

PadlockHolmes · 2019-06-05T04:17:44+00:00

Also, I especially agree with verse 20 but it doesn't seem to line up with what I've pointed out above. Why should we be trapped by immoral women? Is there even an option for most of us? I'm not saying it's impossible. Just unrealistic.

Verse 20 is not referring to being enraptured with or embraced by an immoral wife. It's saying that any woman besides your wife would be immoral to sleep with you. Your wife should be moral.

Yes, there does appear to be a dirth of good women, but I'm currently engaged to a virgin, so it's not impossible. As you follow God first and concern yourself primarily with His work, He will bring higher quality women around if He wants you to get married.

g_e_m_anscombe · 2019-05-30T15:53:12+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Thoughts on Proverbs 5?
Author	11-Eleven-11
Upvotes	18
Comments	14
Date	May 30, 2019 6:18 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/bupqvh/thoughts_on_proverbs_5/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/thoughts-on-proverbs-5.301275 https://theredarchive.com/post/301275