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Check out A and B below. Help me reconcile? A- When does my need for my space become important then? Never, just in case his head gets turned? B - where his career tanking has required her to step in and take on these responsibilities... Does not the woman’s burden shoulder become a concern?

July 29, 2019

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Title Check out A and B below. Help me reconcile? A- When does my need for my space become important then? Never, just in case his head gets turned? B - where his career tanking has required her to step in and take on these responsibilities... Does not the woman’s burden shoulder become a concern?
Author poleywoleywoley
Upvotes 23
Comments 53
Date July 29, 2019 12:07 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWives
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWives/check-out-a-and-b-below-help-me-reconcile-a-when.247375
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWives/comments/cjadk6/check_out_a_and_b_below_help_me_reconcile_a_when/

[–]misionariaprotectiva13 points14 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Some thoughts:

1) A: This is meant to be written for someone trying to bring their marriage back from the cliff. At first, yes, you need to give him that 30-min window even if it seems unfair. The idea is that as you successfully do more for him, he will be incentivized to do more for you. (To clarify, ‘More’ doesn’t necessarily mean more chores...)

2) General/B: Have you read Laura Doyle before this? Secrets of Fascinating Womanhood is good, but I wouldn’t suggest it as a primer of any kind. It’s great for learning childlikeness/psychological femininity, but there is a little less pragmatic advice to be taken away from it.

For instance, it is written for times in which it was possible for one man to be the sole breadwinner. That might not be possible now.

Furthermore, Laura Doyle talks about how to make time for YOUR self care so you will HAVE the mental energy and goodwill to give him the space mentioned in (A).

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Thank you! Yes, I've read the Laura D books. This one is new my thing, then 'the house than cleans itself' (although that's looking more tempting than this atm!)

Just reading further about writing my Husband a letter telling him how much I appreciate him carrying the burden of providing food and shelter for our family.

I can't do that. I do that job, in addition to most of the house work. Someone needs to write me a letter! This book is triggering me all over the place.

Yeh point B isn't going to happen. Not yet anyway. Maybe I can adapt it. (Appreciate his burden of retraining, the damage to his self image of having two failed careers and the maybe burden of knowing I carry 'his' burden and it has broken me previously. That'll be a challenge to word correctly....)

I guess you're right, some things I may need to not be literal about. I am upping the self care. I'd just like a bit more care from him too. Not just empty praise and thanks for my awesomeness. How about stop requiring me to be so awesome?

Oh I don't know, I can't do any more of this today. Its hacking me off. Thanks for listening.

[–]misionariaprotectiva1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Yeh point B isn't going to happen. Not yet anyway. Maybe I can adapt it. (Appreciate his burden of retraining, the damage to his self image of having two failed careers and the maybe burden of knowing I carry 'his' burden and it has broken me previously. That'll be a challenge to word correctly....)

I think you’re onto something here. Sounds like he might be in a dark place, especially if he senses you’ve lost faith in him and his ability to work. Sounds like a recipe for shame and then resentment from him.

Maybe focus on being supportive of his efforts and being a “soft place to land”? Look for, admire, and reward his efforts to fix his situation and get back to work.

Anyway, sounds like you have correctly identified that this particular passage is not what you should be fixated on right now. :P

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I feel like I've done this though. I've brought him through that dark place. The nights I laid awake listening to him, counselling him, stroking his back, trying to soothe him to sleep. I've done the ego stroking, the comfort, wiped his tears. helped him find new avenues, paid for the training. Lying awake myself waiting for the axe to fall, with a baby in my belly. A toddler in the next room.

The struggle to keep ends meeting and restore his self esteem and get him to a point where he has a job he enjoys and is valued in. The damage its done to me doing so. The fact he didn't make the change until I was literally on the kitchen floor unable to stop crying.

And now he's doing good. I'm happy about that. And also so damn relieved. But the more I type the more I realise I am still really angry with him about it.

So maybe that's what I need to work on first. I've got to let go of the anger and resentment somehow.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In fact its so very clear to me now with the red pill theory, why our bedroom was dead for the exact period of time he lost the first job when I was pregnant until he finally settled in one.

Can't believe I didn't see it before.

[–]countrylemon1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

So maybe that's what I need to work on first. I've got to let go of the anger and resentment somehow.

This should be your #1 focus going forward. Obviously, do all the other suggestions in stride but you've hit the nail on the head.

You're angry and resentful, which results in a disrespectful view of him. Change your mindset, forgive him for what he cannot change if you're able to and move forward. I can almost guarantee you you'll see improvement if you tackle that aspect.

Oh and it's not something that's ever "done" it's something you do for him for as long as you're married.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Yes agreed. It’s the biggest hurdle really. And tied in with it, trusting that he won’t fuck us up again. Or .. being prepared to accept it and love him anyway if he does... the second one gives me palpitations.

[–]countrylemon1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Which is a totally normal part of the process. Of course the second is scary, it means living a life of risk without any control over it (aside the control from choosing to stay with him). I remember the first time I relinquished vaccuuming to him, our house got REALLY dusty and then all of a sudden - he's the king of the Dyson. I stopped planning dates and after 4 months of painfully nothing, silently crying to myself while I would do the laundry or something alone because I desperately wanted it, but I kept my shit together. I maintained my feminine energies and self-respect and respect for him. Then, lo and behold, he asked me to go to the movies with him, his treat. I was blown away, felt like I'd never experience that. Always pined after the girls who got to go on all these dates.

Now guess who gets taken on a weekly date to a new place each time (unless we want our usual breakfast place)? Me. This gal. I do, and he almost always pays. (He now

Sometimes letting him fail, or feel the distance between you once he stops trying, or to be scared of paying his bills. Sometimes, the majority of the time, he needs to do that on his own to learn. Men are do-ers. If you've been doing all of it for so long, it's gonna take a while for that to change.

I learned once, that sometimes the best decisions don't wind up with you reaping the rewards. This is one of them, it winds up in you being anxious and uncomfortable - hamstering. BUT it allows him room to bloom!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes you’re right. It’ll be like when decide to overhaul a room in your house and half way through it’s a total abomination but when you get to the end it’s worth it. I’ll double up on the anxiety meds and let (controlled) chaos reign 😆 After I’ve finished hyper ventilating into this paper bag.

[–]McLuhanSaidItFirst0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

lucky man

[–]countrylemon0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

what's that supposed to mean?

[–]McLuhanSaidItFirst1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If I'd been sarcastic, I could deny it, and you'd be no further ahead in your understanding. If it's sincere, I'd feel on the defensive trying to convince you. No DEERing.

Or you could engage in self-soothing your hamster by looking at my other comments in this thread, apply the 'reasonable person' standard of evidence, and trust your own judgement.

[–]g_e_m_anscombe2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Three thoughts:

(1) This book is written assuming the wife isn’t the primary breadwinner. Your mileage may vary. You have to navigate what this means for you and your husband. My husband is also appreciative of alone time - rather than just “I’ve made you maximally comfortable.”

(2) Thrift is an underrated virtue. Traditionally a man’s role was to make money and a woman’s role was to spend AND save the money - a virtuous woman would find a way to live within her husband’s paycheck and a spendthrift made a poor mate. A lot of people say “we can’t live off one income,” but that’s because they’ve structured their lives in such a way that they can’t make ends meet. For example, your kids used to go play sports on the block with their buddies; now if you don’t pay for them to go to large tournaments hours away, you’re “not giving your child THE BEST.” One was free; the other costs not only financially but also that precious resource of time! We have more stuff than any previous generation - but then we don’t have enough space to store our stuff so we have to pay for more expensive living arrangements! I’ve talked to a good number of different women in different financial walks of life and I can say it’s been rare that a (non-drunk, non-abusive) husband hasn’t been able to provide enough for his family’s needs - most often when a woman works it’s because the man hasn’t been able to provide for his wife’s expensive wants (a nicer, larger house with one bedroom per child, a newer, “safer” car, pedicures and hair styling, activities for the children). I don’t know how true that is for your family, but I know that it has helped our marriage for me to be the one reminding my husband that he makes enough for all our needs and that any extra I bring in is for our wants. Even if our rent were dependent on my income, I would remind him that we COULD be living in a cheaper place but that I love time with him so much that I want to work so we have shorter commutes. This helps me be grateful for what we do have rather than keeping up with the Joneses who (in our area) all work and have no kids. I think gratitude is the motivator behind this part of Fascinating Womanhood (expressed through being there for him when he gets home), and that’s easier to cultivate in a relationship where the partners have totally distinct roles that aren’t easily substituted. It’s harder for women like you who can go out and make their own money as well as any man could! So you have to find ways to make yourself grateful for him that don’t depend on your own incompetence. I think Laura Doyle will be a better guide for you because she is aimed more at the working woman.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Thank you.

I probably sound so negative now, I'm feeling pretty negative now. But we lived on one income for 4 years. Just my wage. About three times the salary he makes now. It was a struggle. We built up debts. making ends meet was my problem to deal with. He just ranted now and again that we were always skint. Made me feel even worse. At one point I even took extra piece work from our assembly department at work for the cash. I'm an HR Manager with a masters. That was really depressing. My husband told me it wasn't worth my time. I was hustling trying to make money selling the expensive baby clothes I'd bought when we were both earning the same wage. I managed to sort us out, scored some pay rises and bonuses. I cleared our debts. My Grandparents left us some money & with that and a bit of help from my parents I got us a 3 bedroom house instead of the 2 (There is 4 of us) I say all this to demonstrate we can't manage on his just income. We'd be a mess. We might be able to manage on mine but I am not going back to that again. He's capable of work and he's going to work!

I don't mind so much now he is at least working and not bringing me work drama. Its such a load off my mind. I think that's why I'd suddenly started noticing how fit he is and fucking him again...

I need to start building up some respect for him again.

[–]tintedlipbalm0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

But we lived on one income for 4 years. Just my wage. About three times the salary he makes now. It was a struggle.

The kind of advice Fascinating Womanhood gives is geared towards the man working and the woman staying home, so it would be a long stretch to apply it to you right now, it's simply not the same situation. The best course of action IMO is for you to pay your debts as fast as you can and strive to work less and less in the long run, until you can do it part time and he can actually become the breadwinner you can respect.

It's tough to try to act today as if he's something he's not (yet). Men today crave the respect the men of yesteryear had, but they're not the men of yesteryear. They can't be seamlessly granted that which they haven't commanded for themselves. Give it time and have some self compassion, it's hard work but I see you're really applying yourself. Take a breath, it will take time and sustained effort so you don't want to burn yourself out. Have you read Fascinating Womanhood itself or just Secrets of Fascinating Womanhood? I found the book makes a good case for a woman staying home (relying heavily on Christianity), but things definitely don't start out that way and it's harder to apply if you don't stay at home or work part time even.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. The book arrived today. Been reading the secrets over the weekend. I have a lot to gain from just being more respectful and building him up a bit I think. I’ll just keep on reading. Damn the font size is small in the copy that arrived!

[–]tintedlipbalm1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's a good book, I highlighted from it a bunch when I first read it. A lot of its insights are in line with the sidebar here so that was nice. However I read it when I was still dating and trying to figure out what to look for, I hadn't even met the man I married, so it's definitely tougher to be married, struggling and then work backwards to apply it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, you should be better off for going into things with your eyes wide open. I’ve stumbled blindly through most of my life. To be fair I’ve come out of it pretty well overall. By luck more than anything. And a refusal to ever be beaten. I’m looking forwards to burying my face in it tonight. With reading glasses. And a furrowed brow 😉😆

[–]tintedlipbalm0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

By any chance do you know your MBTI type and his? That also helps a bunch in understanding your relationship dynamic specifically. As well as your love language.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve no idea what that is tbh but I do love questionnaires so.... I’ll google...

[–]McLuhanSaidItFirst0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]BanProLeagueSiege1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Like all allegory, the tale is a bit overstated. The point about the man's position is mostly true and the point being made is not that the woman must drown her troubles for the sake of her man but rather that dumping the concerns of home on him will make his life all work and no relief. This is what I've gleaned from the passage shown.

As for your second point, yeah. The dynamic of success should be upheld, though not for the man's lack of trying to regain his footing to restore normalcy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeh, applied to my situation, the first week one makes me grind my teeth. As it’s exactly how I feel retuning home from a day of people moaning about their jobs, to be greeted by someone immediately wanting to talk about theirs. I just need to remember he needs it and that’s reason enough to give him it. So bit more sucking it up and being receptive to it I guess. I think my desire for B is in conflict with his requirements for A...

[–]wereallcrazyson1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would recommend work by John and Julie Gottman. It can still be applied to rp philosophy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ll check it out thanks.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, really limited on characters in the heading text.

These highlighted sections got me triggered.

Help me reconcile? I'm finding these hard to accept.


[–]wereallcrazyson0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

This book seems woefully outdated and over simplistic, like advice you would see in a Dale Carnegie book. Maybe relevant for the time (40's-50's) Is it really old?

[–]flaeskesteg0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

I think the first copy is from 67, PDF versions from 06-07? It is written by a man, not that it is wrong, but always consider that the author might be biased. Am reading it myself rn, it's well written with good stories, but the "Secrets" are kinda strictly/old fashf written.

On the other hand, the book contradicts the movement of "Women can live without men! ReEeEeE, All men are sexists!"

The overall point of that a man does not need your love, but your admiration, I think is true and can help understand relationship dynamics.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

That’s a useful point to keep in mind. The need for admiration... When I do give him all that praise and he’s all happy, giddy and full of himself, I actually find him a bit annoying. Awful aren’t I. Maybe he’s just so happy to finally get some praise, the novelty might wear off in time 😂

[–]flaeskesteg1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

A happy annoying man is better than a grumpy annoying man xD

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

True! And I can always take a nap. Thanks Laura D, I never napped so much as I do now.

[–]flaeskesteg 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's really nice to talk about this here, otherwise I really want to share the tricks with my man, but yeah.

And I only know one other kinda RPW, but she is not worthy of my time and attention. I simply not have enough in common with her anymore that I want to spend my time and patience with her.

That means I am left almost alone with my RP views.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I have a couple of ladies I work with that, you know like we do us ladies, like to gossip about out situations. We each experience the same problems. Doing everything. Resentful, romance out the window. I've been sharing what I've come across. I've lent a copy of SW to one of them. Another ranted about the stupidity of it all and how glad she was she's finally divorced. Then another lady with a different situation has shared her own successes in making her second marriage better than the first and maintaining a good relationship with the ex. Lots of the RP stuff going on with her. Its been interesting to just chew it over with other women without neccessarily jumping on or off ship.

[–]flaeskesteg0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I am just in a sommer break depression where I wonder where all my friends left during the years.

I will be moving to a bigger city to attend University, so hopefully, I will be able to widen the female part of the RP-community I am a part of. It's just awkward as I am the only female except for the other I mentioned I will not talk to.

Other than that our little friend group is me+man, man's best friend+woman I don't talk to and then 4 young adult single men and a 35y single Man.

The other men admire me bc I can actually clean, cook, am intelligent and loyal, but it feels wierd being alone at barbeques and such.

Sorry for my rant.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeh you need some girlfriends. Why won't you talk to this other woman?

I don't enjoy big groups of women and had a lot of male friends growing up and shared a house with two lads at Uni for two years. The all female halls I lived in the first year was awful. Bitching, hysterics, backstabbing everywhere you turned. But despite having more men around me than women I always had one of two women there too and we always got on. I'll get on with anyone though. You don't have to be a certain kind of person to hang out with me. We don't have to have stuff in common. Just don't be a dick and have a sense of humour is my only requirement.

[–]flaeskesteg 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

She just hasn't matured at all the years I've known her.

She cut a perfectly fine entré cote we brought for new year's into Gulasch. Proceeding to lay it on a cold pan then turning on the heat.

She promoted another woman on Facebook whom I KNOW smoked during pregnancy (her baby came 1 month early at 1,490kg). Btw No one knows who the father is.

I am prolife, but I pointed out how wrong it was to interact with such a post, since it will come up in other peoples feeds and she will get recognized and praised for such an outrageous behavior.

The "friend" said I was overreacting to her being with no moral backbone why she hasn't removed her interactions online.

I don't need someone who can't cook, clean, grow up and instead promotes child abuse online as my "friend".

She can be the fiance of my man's best friend.

I was confronted today why I was the one who SHOULD JUST apologize, when I don't need her. Haven't missed her in particular. She has been the one showing degenerate behavior and she could be "the perfect woman" and apologize to me first, if they actually want my friendship.

[–]McLuhanSaidItFirst0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]flaeskesteg0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

A trick I especially found useful is turning complaining from him into praise. We really don't do that enough - we were kinda raised to bite back instead of giving each other some space to handle things.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, a choice to just word things differently rather than just open my mouth and let whatever comes fall out could be most helpful.

I am definitely a bite back harder, rather than kill you with kindness. I could be less ferocious.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like How to Win Friends.. But yes it does. I think the idea is that it’s timeless wisdom we need to remember. But needs looking at with a indulgent eye I think..

[–][deleted] 1 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m not trying so hard really. I’m just reading and reflecting. Ill do some of the activities. It’s grating on me too. I’m everything this type of woman is not. It makes me feel like shit. But I can see truth in it when I consider how certain things have played out in my life. I read sections out loud to my hubby last night and he was rolling his eyes and saying that this book did not speak for him. He was sticking up for me and my qualities bless him. He wants me to wear more dresses and be more respectful. That’s his wish list from me. There are aspects of the theory I think I can use. I struck his masculine qualities off a list and wrote the reasons I admire him. It was eye opening. There is much to admire. It’s just one tool in the box though. I’ll look that E Eliot up too. I don’t believe the issues we have are all my fault. The red pill for men tells them it’s all their fault. It’s all our faults! We can all do things better though and this is giving me food for thought. I’m not gonna try and be a different person but I’ll question my behaviours and change what I feel I can and should.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thinking I’ll send him my writing onhis admirable qualities and of asking him to do something similar. Then I have in black and white what he likes. According to him not done random third party from a different world. It would be interesting to see if there are any feminine qualities on the list. I know he openly admires my tits 😂

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I've been thinking about this most of the morning. I just sent Hubby my letter of admiration. That was a useful activity which I enjoyed and reminded me of why I was attracted to him in the first place and what I think I'd find impossible to match in another man. He's pretty spectacular in some aspects and I needed reminding of those.

But what's on my mind most is this Fascinating Woman. This helpless feminine vision of loveliness that needs a a man to look after and protect her. Who is interested in sewing and baking and home furnishings. I was not raised to be that girl. I was raised to be the direct opposite. Independent, self reliant, personally capable, and employed at the highest level possible. My parents did NOT raise me to be a good catch for a Husband. They were both very clear all my life that I was following a certain path to university and would become a strong independent woman. Love would come as an extra.

I'm not interested in home making. I'll pay a cleaner and ask my friends to help me pick out cushions, curtains yadayada. I find it dull and uninspiring. I like a nice home but I work full time and something has to give. I can cook but I hate it. I certainly hate getting home from work and cooking tea right away. Luckily Hubby loves it so I let him get on with it mostly. He relaxes in the kitchen. I get stressed.

I have looked at the women who play helpless and vulnerable (or maybe they actually are that way) and get looked after or pandered to, with a bit of a sneer. I haven't had a right lot of respect for them. I cannot imagine myself as one of them.

I've always been a 'if you want something, go get it' person. Don't ask permission, Don't wait for someone else. Its your life, make it what you want. If anyone else can do something, so can I with the right effort. Its all out there for the taking. But you gotta do it yourself.

But that has landed me at a place in life I'm not enjoying. A place where my ability to get shit done means I do everything. A place where I am not happy to continue giving and giving. And this is where I have to reflect and accept that I was raised in a way that is against my nature.

All I really want now is to drop all my balls, let go of all my spinning plates and just have stuff taken care of for me. I'm done in. Time for me to be taken care of.Have someone else do the work. And this is why I'm gonna try and take on a bit of this book on board.

[–][deleted] 1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes totally agree... I honestly grew up thinking men didn’t want a woman to be a financial burden anyway. Even now it’s the main moan men have about getting married. Providing everything and being raped in a divorce. So here’s a woman who doesn’t want to you to provide her with everything, just wants your company and your body and she’s too unfeminine for a man to truly give his heart to? We’re all screwed.

One particular passage suggesting ladies should have no hopes, expectations and dreams of my own or if we do, make sure they are portable (or dispensable). was priceless in terms of the snorts of laughter from Mr Poley.

So yes the concepts of the book are enough to make you want to shout ‘Votes for Women’ in the style of Mary Poppins. But there is also some gold in there worth panning for...

[–]McLuhanSaidItFirst0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

something seductive about the idea that it is actually all our fault...we women can make or break a relationship

I see this as a theme sometimes when women talk about relationships- my ex actually conceptualized our relationship , in so many words, as a power struggle.

What if there is a hunger for agency, self-efficacy, empowerment, in everyone, and it can be completely satisfied by exerting oneself to be the best person one can imagine, while allowing others the freedom to pursue that life for themselves? What if that hunger for power is simply misconceptualized and misdirected - outward against one's mate, instead of inward, toward one's own growth process? That is one of the pillars of the Married Red Pill for men: Own Your Shit: lift, think about what you're doing, pick up the slack, focus on your own blind spots.

Or is it seductive because you actually want to have ultimate power in the relationship ? Of course, women can make or break a relationship, that's why MGTOW refuse to expose themselves to divorce rape at the hands of a mercenary woman. It's true that the one with power in a negotiation is the one who can walk away: that's why marriage is a Prisoner's Dilemma. You both have to say "nope - not walkin' away" to get any reward, confident that the other party knows how to backstop a trust fall. Choose wrongly, lose bigly. That's why people are said to 'fall' in love - it requires letting go of security; you're giving the other person power over your happiness to a certain extent.

And this is the substance of my assertion that the Cock Carousel damages men in parallel to the damage it inflicts on women: it reduces a man's ability to fall/trust in love. In fact, MRP men have a monument to their belief in hypergamy as the wolf at their own door, in their saying : "She's not yours; it's just your turn". This is too smart by half. They've gone so far into the ways of cynicism, exploited for their own aims, that they can't let go of it, and that's why so many of them are stuck merely passing comfort tests when they could go much deeper into the rewards of a dominant role. There are a few unicorn men who have made it to the Elysian Fields of deep and loving and supercharged D/s in their marriages, and they are in love with their wives at last, and it's truly breathtaking to see- it's like looking at a closeup view of the weather on the sun.

lots of Christian women hate the book because they believe it encourages wives to manipulate their men, which isn't true submission

I believe that's a misinterpretation of the techniques. It's not manipulative to give people what they need when you are in a relationship with them. Otherwise, why is there a book called the 5 Love Languages? It's not the "5 Foolproof Ways to Get Others to Do Things for You, In Spite of Their Best Interests".

Why are you trying so hard to make your life fit into the framework of that book?

Like they say, 'don't knock it if you haven't tried it'.

Personally, I don't like the way it made me feel, like I had to strain very hard to make myself fit a mold that just isn't me.

Yes, that is exactly what most women say about the first steps - humbling themselves, forgiving their mate, and appreciating his good qualities. They don't like the way it makes them feel. Giving up power and self righteousness feels threatening, and is hard to do, if you do it right. Not saying that was your sticking point, I don't know you - but the whole process is hard for anyone, it goes against natural human narcissism. And MRP men refer to waking up and resuming their proper role after being a Drunk Captain as 'the grindingest grind you will ever grind'.

[–]Theendisnearornot0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I try my best to give my husband time at the end of his day. But it rarely happens that way. I will say I used to bombard him when he walked through the door with how awful my day was and “venting”. Whereas he just wants to sit, get his shoes off and go to the bathroom. So I do back off. Of course my kids are a little older now (my youngest is 3, but my oldest is 11). It was different when I had a 2 year old and a newborn.
But if I do a lot of self care it does make a big difference.

I have had a lot of resentment toward my husband the last couple years. While he didn’t lose his job, he went through a bit of a mental health crisis. I took over everything but his job (finances, all the cooking, shopping, night wakings, cleaning.. stuff we split before) while homeschooling and working. I didn’t mind that, but he was totally checked out emotionally and I was trying to comfort him and support him in that way.

Honestly, I’ve had to distance myself a little (I did post about that a bit ago). And I did more of what Laura Doyle talks about (self-care, being respectful, and saying “I can’t”. I have had to work on my own resentments first because all of this comes across differently when coming from a place of warmth and love versus a place of bitterness. It is the same “fruit”, but one taste wonderful and the other is rotten. I need(ed) to work more on me than what I was giving to my husband. I’d like to eventually go back to Fascinating Womanhood eventually, but I’m not quite there yet. Also my husband thinks it’s weird if I start doing things totally out of my norm lol.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

We have that situation in reverse. I get through the first door. I'm met at the internal one. Kids throw themselves at me. I've usually still got my key in the door and bag on my arm and whatever else I'm bringing into the house. While the kids bombard me with hugs and information my Husband comes over and joins in the hug. He says hey and kisses me. I ask everyone if they've had good days. One question, to all of them. Kids are bored of me already by then and bugger off with a quick yay in my general direction. We talk later.

Husband answers my question. Still stood by the door, still key in lock, arms full. Often still with an arm round me too.

I'll say, Can I just hang my stuff up and get in the house, then let's go for a brew and tell me all about it (A brew in Northern UK is a cup of tea. Not Gin or Beer for anyone concerned about my drinking) That's how we get away from the door and I get to put my stuff down.

Sometimes he notices he's doing it and steps back and says he'll see me in the kitchen. But he does expect to see me in the kitchen right away to take my daily run down. It does my head in. After he'll ask about my day but I've no interest really in going over it all. I'm trying to switch out of work mode into Mum mode. He gets a fine, good or shite. Sometimes its a half hour until he's done. He's a talker.

Similar situations for us really I guess. I have been distant from him a long time and we are nearly a year into properly connecting again. About 5 months into having sex with him again. During the time I've been distant he's tried to connect and I've kept him at a distance. I was quite cruel to him at times. Because I was so angry and resentful and frightened too. I know those years will have worn him down. I gotta build him back up.

I've tried saying 'I can't' recently. Its hard. It feels lazy, selfish and unkind. But its interesting as both times I've done it he's said, "nah don't blame you I was just seeing if you would... Worth a try hey. "So basically confirming he's been doing that for years, guilting me into doing stuff cos he knows I'm a pleaser. And I've been agreeing cos I'm a pushover. So that's given me the confidence to say no without feeling bad going forwards.

[–]Theendisnearornot0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ahh! I wrote out a whole response and lost it. I’m going to try again.

From what I can see from what you have written here... I wouldn’t try to follow FW too closely (at least that portion). The dynamics of your relationship are a bit different than what she’s describing (yours are a bit reversed).

Personally I’d use a lot of The Empowered Wife principles. Like saying “I’d love to hang my things up and have a little space when I walk through the door”. It’s okay to acknowledge what you desire and express that. I know I do the exasperated sigh when I can’t do what I want. But I don’t tell anyone what I want so there’s no space for what I need because I don’t make the space for it. Your children and husband are getting what they want because they just do it. While you get more and more drained and become more defensive when you have your hand on the doorknob. It is okay to express what you need. It can be a matter of “bringing the problem to your captain” and seeing if he can solve it versus you telling him what to do.

For me, I had resolve my heart issues of resentment and bitterness before I could resolve any marriage issues. Because no matter what coming in the door looks like - it will be exhausting if you still are resentful. I like the book “Loving What Is” for anger & resentment.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I hate when that happens! Bless you for having a second go. Yeh you're right, they all just take what they want and I should to. Or at least speak what I want. Years of programming trying to keep my Mum quiet that. Thanks. That's the Bryon Katie book isn't it. I have found The Work so helpful in managing my anxiety, so much satisfaction bashing out the judge thy neighbour worksheets.

[–]Theendisnearornot0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol, yes! That’s the book!!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Brilliant! She's done a kids one called 'Tiger Tiger is it true' I bought for the kids too.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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