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Dealing With Insecurities Over Husband's Attraction to Other Women

June 7, 2019

I've had a rocky marriage, and have posted on here a few times seeking encouragement/advice. I bought Fascinating Womanhood a few months ago (I bought a few different copies and versions, actually), and have been taking the advice there to heart. I have enjoyed the changes in myself, and think I am becoming a better person for it. I have felt an increase in intimacy and a strengthening in our bond, too, and am grateful for it. We are actually pregnant with our third child now, and I think it is because of the way things have changed in our home. I have felt so much happier with my husband when I intentionally set out to admire and respect him, and accept him without criticism.

My issue now - he told me yesterday that he was still sexually attracted to every single young, cute girl he saw, and that he would have a threesome (hypothetically speaking, that is. He said he would never do it with me because I would be too jealous, but that yes, he would be up and willing for one generally speaking), and that it was a sacrifice for him to give up random, casual sex.

I felt like he slapped me when he told me these things. I knew he thought/felt that way in the past, but I also thought our bond was weaker then. I honestly thought that a stronger bond and deep intimacy would mean that I would be his One and Only. And to be sure, he has never done anything about any of this. He has 100% been faithful in actions, which I guess is what ultimately counts, but honestly I felt so disgusted and betrayed. All the memories of him coming home from the bar telling me how much he missed banging randos flooded through me again and I felt like my world had just been smashed, and he would always be mentally scanning other females. And it shouldn't shock me that he still feels this way, anyway. I've had all the signs. I quit wanting to watch Game of Thrones with him because he got so gross and explicit about how hot he thought all the girls were in the show. He doesn't just say, "I think X person is attractive." He says "I wanna ram it up her ass" or "You have no idea how many times I've jacked off to her." He stopped saying all those things when I made it clear how much it bothered me, but I guess I let myself be fooled into thinking the issue was gone since it wasn't in my face anymore. I'm just so disgusted that he would have such low integrity as to even consider that a threesome would be a good idea. He basically just admitted to me that he is 100% OK using women for their bodily orifices, regardless of the harm it would reek on everybody. Honestly I only think enjoying a threesome is possible if the people are completely out of touch with morals, their emotions, and only see the other person as a means to an end. I'm sad and discouraged that his life of family and commitment has been a sacrifice. Maybe I'm just being too Disney, but I really thought that true, deep, soul-to-soul love would quench those baser, more animalistic, hedonistic impulses. I feel very betrayed, and maybe one of the worst things is that the respect, admiration, and the trust I had been feeling for him feels quite shakey now. I feel full of doubt, and while he is faithful and does not do anything in action that is questionable, I have to question our bond and the truth of what our relationship is. He told me that ALL men are driven to want to fuck anything young and attractive, even when they're 80 years old. That also made me feel depressed. If that's 100% true, and men are only keeping their desires in check because of society or family pressures, then it is really impossible for me to be friends with any male. It makes me feel something close to hate for them. It's gross. Are there no men out there who love principles and who don't just see women as holes to be used for sexual gratification? When I ask myself that, of course it's obvious that those men exist, but then that makes me wonder why my husband speaks in a way which would paint all men like that. That, coupled with the history of our own sex life (started out amazing, then had a drastic drop off with first child due to his lack of desire) has me questioning if I chose a man who just by being who he is is not cut out for long-term monogamy. That is one awful proposition. The other is that he actually is a great long-term monogamy partner, but I have failed to fulfill his deepest needs and therefore he is not as deeply bonded to me as I desire. I'd prefer it if I have failed. At least that means there might be a chance that there is something I can do to improve things.

How should I deal with this? I don't want to be plagued by this doubt and the insecurities are awful, because he has not acted in any way questionable. I realize that this is more like thought-crime, and there is nothing which has been done about these thoughts. My doubts come from knowing that he desires and wishes and feels things which I find fundamentally immoral and disgustingly hedonistic. I really have such a disgust for the hook-up culture. I get that men like sex, but seriously, don't men realize that there's a whole other human at the other end of that hole that most likely would never hook-up if she were healthy, and had self-respect and knew what is was like to be valued? I see all the men of TRP who "spin plates" and maximize their sexual strategy amorally as vultures feeding off of the carcasses of broken families and the dysfunction of a sick society. I don't see them as men to respect. I can't respect such sociopathic behavior. It's such exploitation. It would be like a woman serially draining bank accounts of men who were desperate for approval and female affection. The men agree, so it's not theft, but a woman who would do that is a predator without a heart. No man could love a woman like that. It just shows that she is willing to serve her own needs regardless of any moral standard, or of any cost to the other person. And yes, my husband has often accused me of over-thinking things, but it just seems logical to me that these sort of desires and preferences would point to a weakness in integrity and understanding, and that's just awful. I wish my husband was so in love with sterling ideals and standards that he would never even dream of these things. I know the Red Pill community sort of lauds male sexual hedonism, but even that is illogical and dumb to me. All that sexual hedonism and gratification for men- and especially young men - is dangerous to every thing good that society is built on. Men are less incentivized to achieve and succeed, and they stop developing inner personal qualities if they are drugged and inundated with sex all the time, and it makes them feel successful even if their lives are in reality hollow and pointless. There is also the danger of reckless pregnancies, which is tragic for a helpless, totally innocent baby and it ruins entire generations. It also weakens men's ability to bond with women, and it's destructive and hurtful to the women themselves. I am horrified that he will imprint these ideas onto my sons, when it seems like the happiness of their adults lives will nearly entirely depend on them prudently choosing the right women to build their families with, and they will not be attractive to women of integrity and high standards if they are living like man-whores and are slumming it with any trash that walks their way. IF my sons are going to escape teenage years without a porn addiction, without getting an STD or and unwanted pregnancy (which, again, is just utterly destructive for the innocent child, and then exposes my son to legal and financial risks for the rest of his life), then they need to see that masculinity is discerning of women, and that just because you can have sex with it does not mean that you should, and that more sex and more variety of sex does not = being more of a man.

Life is without these insecurities, and I'd like to put the aside if possible, but I want to know some true answers as to whether me putting these insecurities aside is just me sticking my head in the sand until the problem grows so large that it's unavoidable. I'm also afraid that this third child will be a daughter, and that she will grow up expecting to be loved only as long as she is young, attractive, and a stranger/novelty for a man. In other words, I'm afraid her daddy will demonstrate to her that men don't love women, but that they are perfectly willing to use their holes for very selfish reasons. I don't see how it's possible that he can teach his sons to have sex and use women, and then expect his daughter to believe she is worth being treated with love and tenderness and respect.

Honestly I just feel distrustful of him after hearing that his desires are only being kept in check by my presence. It is nothing innate or internal in him, and that makes me think he is not wise, not thoughtful, not insightful or or enough integrity to be a good captain. There is so much at stake, and I feel on full alert because he does not seem to be on full alert himself. I want to relax and never question his capacity, but this has shaken me deeply.

Am I wrong?

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Post Information
Title Dealing With Insecurities Over Husband's Attraction to Other Women
Author mrssmithhh
Upvotes 23
Comments 31
Date June 7, 2019 11:26 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWives
Archive Link
Original Link

[–]snackysnackeeesnacki15 points16 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

There are several things going on here. I was going to ask you what the context of his comments yesterday were, but as I kept reading I see he has a history of making these statements unprompted.

He’s being disrespectful, yes. I don’t think it’s akin to thought-crime because he’s bringing you into it by speaking to you about it. But this may be the only way he knows how to share these feelings with you.

It seems your attitudes about sex are somewhat misaligned. Your comments about threesomes and using women’s bodies show a lack of understanding about how men’s brains work regarding sex. My first thought when you mentioned his comments during GoT was that perhaps it’s a turn-on to him to speak to talk dirty to you in this way. Everybody’s different - for me personally, i would be receptive to that kind of talk (if it’s about girls on tv or whatever, not anybody we know in real life) BUT since it makes you uncomfortable and he knows it, he’s crossing a line.

The other possibility is that he is resentful of your attitude toward sex (which is something you can work on), or resentful of the fact that he’s in a monogamous relationship at all (which is not something you can work on directly - but something you can work on by working on your sex life). It sounds like the comments he made yesterday were more direct and less casual, and I would take it as him opening up and trying to communicate something important. I know it hurts. But part of RP ideology is accepting that men by and large ARE ignoring certain biological imperatives in order to have a family life. You resenting him for feeling that way is no different than him resenting you for wanting marriage and monogamy. It’s just something you have to accept about one another.

If it were me, I’d tell him that you are feeling vulnerable right now and it would mean a lot to you if he would be mindful of sexual comments he makes about other women. No long discussion, no finger pointing... just expressing something that something is hurting you. Then, I would try immensely to work on improving your love life. Your ego is hurt right now, mine would be too. But try to put your pride aside and realize that his feelings are normal too, and you can fix his feelings or make them go away, but you can help him feel more settled in your marriage. Be playful and flirt. Do something that surprises him. Make time for him. Think of times he has been really responsive to you, romantically or sexually.

You also need to prioritize self care. Girl, you’re pregnant with two kids already - are you getting enough sleep? Are you taking bubble baths and eating good food and getting sunshine? Are you having regular contact with women in your life who are supportive of you and your marriage and who you can have fun with? Do you have any hobbies or projects that fill up your cup, and if so are you giving them any time and attention? A happy wife can be a powerful aphrodisiac for a man.

You’re not going to be able to change his attitude about other women, but as you have already seen in the last few months you have a lot of influence over his attitude towards you - which is all that matters at the end of the day.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Such a balanced and helpful response. Thank you.

I wonder if the comments he made were more of him just trying to illustrate the lengths of how willing he is to sacrifice for me and being in the family. He didn't seem to be angry when he said it, but threesomes have come up before and at one point I felt so low that I almost agreed to it, and I was shocked at how grateful and appreciative he seemed that I would even consider that for him.

I do think that his GoT comments are more like you said - it's a turn-on for him to talk dirty like that, and I think he was trying to spur me into talking dirty with him too. Like a soft hint, or some light fishing for some frisky activity. It's just that it actively turns me off - I'm not sure I understand how it's supposed to turn me on. I guess me sex drive is more narcissistic. I want to be the one desired, and I don't feel any true connection without knowing that his sexual desire is for me and me only. Without that, I just sort of feel like a human masturbatory device for him to play out his fantasies with. Like it's not me and him, it's him and his fantasies and my body is the stand-in. Honest opinion - am I being unreasonable here? Am I being too prudish? I have a wild sex streak in my own opinion, but I feel totally withered if I detect a trace of a hint that I am not solely the object of his desire.

I like the idea of just telling him that I feel vulnerable right now and to please respectfully be mindful of the comments he makes about other women. Short and sweet, and it's respectful of his differences without criticizing. It lets me let him deal with his own struggles about his own sexuality, because after all, he has chosen of his own will to be monogamous and have a family. But man oh man, I wish he had been more upfront with me in the beginning of our relationship and told me that he might never feel totally happy in a monogamous relationship. I honestly might have gone a different direction, because the way it plagues me is really just so painful to the core. But I already know I'm not going to leave the marriage, so no use in lamenting a path that will never exist, and it's very helpful in finding a way to navigate our differences in a way which places no blame and still protects me from some more hurtful things. Thank you very much.

I really don't prioritize myself much. Honestly it's just difficult with two toddlers at home full-time and not a lot of people around to help with support. I do have a fairly solid group of mom friends, but there is a big hole that I have in me. I have a pretty big romantic/artistic streak and I used to get my fix with community theater and by singing in my community's orchestra choir, but it's been nearly impossible to do those things without any outside childcare, and I couldn't imagine dedicating the hours to something like theater with small children anyways.

Anyway, thank you again for your helpful response! I appreciate it!

[–]artemis2864 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you're being unreasonable whatsoever. Every relationship dynamic is different of course, and I do think it's possible he's making attempts at starting up something, and perhaps not realizing how bad those comments are making you feel. But you are not unreasonable at all for not wanting those comments, and those comments not making you feel good.

We are religious mind you, so I know that plays into our views about sexuality, but we believe in total loyalty within marriage. That doesn't mean that we don't acknowledge that other people can look good, we aren't blind. But we choose to focus our sexual energy on each other. And those comments would be absolutely unacceptable to me in every way, and would hurt me to the core. And it would break my husband if I said things like that to him.

It's actually part of our religious and personal beliefs that as a husband and wife it's part of our responsibility to make our spouse feel loved, safe, and secure sexually. We feel, and evidence also demonstrates, that security and emotional intimacy build trust, which leads to a more fulfilling sex life for both parties.

I don't have a whole ton of advice, but I just wanted to validate you. You're not a prude. You're not being unreasonable at all. In fact, you have a much higher tolerance for this than I would. Again, I know being religious plays into that, but still. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Thank you so much. That does a lot to make me feel less insane and out of touch with what my own intuition was telling me. I'm an atheist, but most of my core beliefs are more closely aligned with conservative Christian beliefs. I honestly don't think I would feel the slightest bit upset if all he was doing was simply acknowledging that another woman was beautiful or attractive - I realize he's not blind, like you said. But that is very different than wanting to experience another woman. I also might not have minded an admission to sexual attraction to other girls if that were all, but that, coupled with a willingness for a threesome, was just a lot of evidence that he does not have the standards that I think are so vital. It really demoted him, in my opinion. I cannot understand how he can navigate all the dangers of life competently if he is so susceptible to sex. Sex blurs his judgement and makes him casual and drowsy when there are so many (obvious, in my opinion) dangers hidden behind sex. There is no such thing as "no strings attached sex." There is always a cost, and I'm just pained that he seems foolish enough to not see that. I know that this is so negative of him. I am thankful for this subreddit, since I could never possibly say any of these things to any one else without getting an almost immediate "leave him!"

Although I'm an atheist, I really believe that religion is better for giving out a blueprint for living well. I have many times wished that he and I could bow our heads together and "pray" for those higher ideals and for a unified direction. I have very often wished I could go back to church and openly tell people that, while not a literal Christian, I believe there is no better format for being a good person and living with character than what's presented in a church.

[–]g_e_m_anscombe2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I hurt reading your post. I was a conservative atheist when I was younger and it would have hurt me a great deal to hear your husband’s comments. It is normal to feel like you are “not enough” when he says such things.

I know that my husband has the same impulses, and he had the benefit of seeing a former boss live a lavish lifestyle full of women and be a completely wretched human being. It helps as well that he is surrounded by likeminded men and doesn’t watch porn. My husband also used to watch GoT and asked me to watch it with him but I refused. I told him why - I think it’s unethical to watch because of the excessive nudity which feels lasciviousness - but I didn’t ask him to stop watching it. At one point, he sort of raised the issue again, and I simply suggested “if you are unsure about the ethics of watching it, perhaps you should ask your spiritual director about it?” His spiritual director is a very old and very holy priest, and it would be beyond embarrassing for either of us to ask such a stupid question. He completely stopped watching it and now is more bold about asserting around peers that he no longer watches it. I don’t know how I would handle it if my husband only had men in his life who thought porn/GoT were okay.

There’s only one atheist I know off the top of my head who is very anti-porn: Russell Brand. I wonder if you could watch something from him together?

I also know it’s hard at 5 months to want to have sex - especially after a disrespectful comment like that, but my husband also finds his baser instincts are easier to resist when we have non-starfish sex more frequently.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow, your story is so similar to mine! How hilarious about suggesting your husband speak with his spiritual adviser! And I'm really surprised that more atheists aren't anti-porn. I became an atheist because it was logical. Being anti-porn is also logical. Morals and ethics and sexual conservatism are logical. Churches and the amazing social support and encouragement found in them are logical.

My husband was a big porn consumer when we first got married, and after several years of me tolerating it, I finally broke down in tears and told him how awful it really made me feel. To my knowledge, he does not watch it anymore at all, and even openly makes comments about it being bad.

I'm getting all Freudian here, but he had an awful relationship with a neglectful and sometimes violent mother who is currently 64, divorced for the 4th time, and already on to the next guy. His dad was a handsome loser who played tons and tons off women, and the stories his dad tells about his dealings with women are really just the lowest of the low. Do you think that maybe he just had a bad model for male-female relationships, and it will just take patience and compassion on my part to undo all that damage? Or do you think I'm reaching too far?

[–]g_e_m_anscombe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think it’s a reach too far! Our childhood patterns often persist into adulthood. Even people who manage to break the cycle of physical abuse, for example, end up following some patterns of emotional abuse. Our parents dictate normal.

I think patience is key here. And also maybe making it clear that he’s allowed to think those things, but you’re allowed to leave and not discuss them with him further. I think that’s a reasonable boundary to protect your (very justified!) feelings without being controlling. I find it hard to imagine any mature man saying “you know what sounds like a great idea? Telling your 5 month pregnant wife there is a part of you that still wants a threesome.”

[–]snackysnackeeesnacki1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is going to sound convoluted, but you are mixing up your feelings with your thoughts. Your feelings are not unreasonable - for a number of reasons, you are not feeling desirable to him right now and that is totally valid considering you guys are struggling in this area. But your feelings are getting mixed up in judgment of him and his feelings, which are equally valid. You just need to find common ground, and try to let the other stuff go as much as possible.

A book that really helped me with sexual jealousy is “Mars and Venus in the Bedroom”, especially as it’s written from a mans perspective. He talks about his desire for other women fueling the sexual relationship he has with his wife. Try to use that fuel. Just to use your example (and apologies for being crude) if he said something like “I’d like to ram her in the ass”, I would try responding with “I don’t want to hear about her - I want to hear you talk about ramming me in my ass instead” or “well, would you rather ram her in the ass or cum in my mouth?” If his motives are what you suspect, he would probably enthusiastically choose the latter (then of course, you’ll want to follow through on your offer). You can gently remind him that it’s hurtful and find opportunities to make him feel like he can express himself sexually.

Edit: and I agree theater sounds like a lot right now, but getting back into singing could be wonderful for your soul!

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are so helpful.

I do think this is the best strategy for me. I'll go try to find the book at the library today.

Just to vent (because this is such practical advice and I'm most likely going to use this) - my regret with this is that this is just another biology-hacking strategy. I can use feminie wiles all day long, and do and enjoy using them, but my deeper self really just mourns the stark difference in values and integrity. I guess that is just something that I need to figure out how to get comfortable with, though, and since I'm unwilling to forsake the relationship, I will have to figure out how to genuinely make peace with him as a captain.

[–]dangernoodle8816 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I just wanted to say that I completely agree with all the things you said about feeling disgust over the immoral sexual hedonism normalized by men, and it's one of the facets of red pill I just can't tolerate. We can't justify all our choices with evolutionary biology - if so, what separates us from monkeys? Humans thrived because men were able to put aside their base desires to build and support society.

I think the things your husband is saying is incredibly disrespectful to you, even more so if he clearly knows that it bothers you. And it makes me wonder if he is purposefully trying to get a rise out of you? Or, he realizes how misaligned you two are on core values and wants to pick at the wound so to speak. At this point he should know you well enough to know that these comments would bother you.

My boyfriend used to make similar crude comments (totally relate to the GoT thing...ugh) and I eventually realized it was out of insecurity and trying to get a rise out of me. I stopped getting mad and just started giving him absolutely no reaction, deadpan face to off color jokes and the like. I would simply say "I didn't like that comment" and move on. I think it worked because it wasn't controlling ("stop making those comments") and instead gave him the space to decide if he wanted to do something that clearly decreased my attraction to him. Men want our respect more than we realize.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's really interesting about him trying to get a rise out of me... That is very interesting. Do you mind me asking, why did your boyfriend make comments like those, if they were based out of insecurity? I don't quite follow how his insecurity would prompt him to make those types of comments. You sounded very smart to react they way you did. I think this is how I should have reacted, in a perfect world, but these things first came up during pregnancy, and I absolutely did not feel calm and rational then.

I understand that men are visual, but it also puts larger questions in my mind, like whether or not Muslims have it right in that women should just wear burkas, since men are so triggered by everything visual. I don't want to be having a conversation with a neighbor, or a friend's husband, and wonder if the innocent, fun conversation just became ruined because he is visual and just can't help but be attracted to another female or moderate attractiveness and definite newness. I don't want to go jogging and have my run ruined by wondering if some guy is being creepy, or there is trouble being caused in a marriage, just because my clothes are tight and revealing, and I'm moving in slightly provocative ways. It just makes everything seem so lewd and base. I get that men are sexual, and need sex, and are attracted on an animal level to young, fertile-looking girls, but where is the higher standards that rule a man's heart? That's what bothers me. I get that men restrain their actions and words, but is that as far as it goes? Would they all go out and have random sex if their wives allowed it? Do they only have integrity because of external consequences, or are there actually men out there who believe so strongly in high moral standards and ideals that it brings their entire being into one purpose, that of serving the best and most noble?

That's what's so despairing to me. I always believed in the Hero, and thought that a real man loved truth and integrity above all else, and was devoted to insight, and wisely and carefully navigating his own (and others, if possible), through all the dangers of life. Like, it just seems that this compulsive wish to indulge in these hedonistic desires are actually anti-Man, if you view the ideal man (like I do) as the ultimate sterling standard of principle and virtue. This rabbit-like sex world of today is so adolescent and makes me think we're doomed to just devolve into a bunch of resource-grabbing, impulse-driven monkeys, and that our humanity will be lost.

[–]DownVotesWrongsOnly0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Did you really just ask 'are there actually men who are noble?' Because that's never been asked before. The answer is yes. Not everywhere, not shoved down everyone else's throat (the women with those men want to keep them for themselves), but consistently, yes.

Obviously the OP has more going on than this though.

[–]AngelinaBaIIerina6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To me it’s ok to think thoughts of attraction, but it’s exceptionally uncalled for and rude to just announce that for no reason. Sometimes I don’t understand why people choose to say things out loud.

[–]HB32344 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Almost every man I've had with crude sensibilities like your husband has made statements about how "all men are like this". The only thing that really sets those men straight is for a man they respect push back - "no, we aren't. are you doing alright?"

Unfortunately for you, the inner contents of your husband will not change. But his behavior toward you certainly can. He didn't behave like this to you when you were engaged or dating, right?

When he says something you don't like, simply say, "you are entitled to think and feel whatever comes naturally to you, and I respect that. but it hurts me to hear you say these things." If he asks why, you just broken record - "it hurts me." The next time he says something crude, just say, "ouch."

If you're early in the FW journey, realize this takes some time. It's not a few weeks or handful of months, for most people. As his love for you grows, his desire to protect you from these painful feelings will as well. If you feel he doesn't mind hurting you this way right now, it means he has done serious anger and resentment toward you, and you need to stay the FW course if you wish to preserve your marriage.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. I do wish to preserve my marriage, and wish to see it bloom into true, hard-won soul-mate love. I don't think he is a bad person - that was the thing I really had to ask myself when I was at my most unhappy. Do I believe he is bad, in his heart of hearts, or is he simply behaving badly?

The FW route has been wonderful, both for me and for my husband (although he is not informed about FW). I do believe that this is the best and only way to making things better. It just feels good to know that I'm in fact not crazy, and it's a relief to vent to women who also value marriage and try to give advice on how to make things better rather than just telling me to throw things away.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sounds unpleasant. I feel for you. I think most wives would be upset to have their husband make comments like those. Especially pregnant ones I agree, the two of you seem very mismatched in your attitudes to sex. There’s probably things you can to close that gap. He’s not doing anything and he’s being honest so credit for that I guess. But that doesn’t help you I know. Know this though. However many one night stands he might have or want, you are his one and only. The one he made a home and a family with. The one all other women would have to compete with. The one he has put these desires aside for. Try and hold onto that.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That is the comfort I have. It feel like second-rate comfort, but it's what I have to hold on to, so hold on to it I will. He tells me that I am his Queen, his Melania Trump, the perfect girl for him - but it's like the other night. He and I were being intimate (TMI, please forgive) and he told me I was the prettiest girl he'd ever seen, he was seriously blown away by me, and I fit him so perfectly, and (this is the part that killed it) that even if he liked other girls I was still his favorite. It just reminds me that I am his favorite snack, but that he still wants a cupboard full of variety munchies and that, in the end, I will never satisfy him. That it's impossible for me to compete with a stranger, just by default of proximity. That the only way for me to remain as desirable would for me to never have a relationship at all, and the only way for me to experience his full passion in that way would be for me to just be another random bar girl, who is fun and mysterious and ego-boosting for a night, and then to be forever held in his memory as "that one amazing time."

Maybe I just need to accept that I married a man who is not ever going to have the same attitudes about love and faithfulness and monogamy as I do, and I don't know - maybe he has a genetic proclivity towards R selection, or maybe his really messed up relationship with his mother and the horrible way his dad ran through women permanently warped his relationship towards sex and women. Maybe I should just stop struggling with this, and just make peace with the fact that he cares for me in his own way, and that, whatever his internal struggles, he is conscientious enough to not bring them into reality by acting on them. That's something real to hold on to.

We are very mismatched in our attitudes about sex. I was way too go-with-the-flow when I was younger and tended to think men's faults were things that they would grow out of. Pretty awful to admit, but true, and now I'm dealing with the fall out of that attitude, so I'm very much not without fault. I'm more just venting my frustration now, since I literally cannot utter a word about this to another living soul without an overwhelming cry for a divorce. Thank for being my safe space. I know you guys here are pro-marriage, so I feel able to let down my guard and be honest about the negatives.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You don’t need to feel you have to compete with those girls. There is always someone younger and prettier. He’s a man, they take his eye. But not his heart. To be frank he’d be better keeping his thoughts to himself. But I guess it’s the idea you aren’t enough for him. But I’ll bet none of the other women would stop his roving eye either. They need to stay thoughts only though. If he acts on them then there are serious consequences for sure. We all have moments of massive self doubt. It’s good to share. I never picked my husband for his husbandly qualities. I was only 21 and just looking for a good time and we had one! But now here we are... I guess we have to work with what we chose!

[–]GreenTeaOnMyDesk2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]Hartley7Married for 9 years2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you're wrong. I think your husband is very cruel. Being attracted to others while married is normal but constantly talking about it is just rude and unnecessary.

I do believe that most men have desires which may not be palatable. However, gentlemen refrain from crudely discussing attraction to other women when they with the ladies they have chosen to spend their lives with.

Just remember that you cannot control your husband's fantasies and sexual desires which involve other women. You can only ask that he refrain from sharing them with you.

[–]BanProLeagueSiege1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you married a stinker. Try getting him into God. If you can steer his soul, you'll eventually steer his heart and mind.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, he's wonderful in a billion different ways. There's a reason I fell in love with him, and to give him credit, he hasn't ever even flirted with another woman in front of me. He speaks in a very unfiltered way about his inner thoughts about other women, though, and that's what I struggle with.

[–]BanProLeagueSiege0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough I suppose...

[–]abbyisntshort1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just want to say that NOT all men are like this and it isn't something we as women should tolerate in any capacity. Adultery committed in the mind is still adultery! If you weren't pregnant I would absolutely suggest leaving him. I'm not confident that a man like that can be a good father. If he can't even be devoted to you then how's he gonna devote himself to children? I know that that might sound harsh or extreme but this is literally the most important thing in your life. Nothing is a more important decision than picking a husband and father to YOUR children. I agree with another comment on here that said you should try to get him to come before God; I can't think of anything else that could possibly change someone like that other than the power of the Almighty. You need to be super hardline with him. In the modern world we're made to feel powerless to the whims of men, but it truly is the opposite. Men have also been made to believe that they are powerless to stop their sexual urges, but they absolutely can. The only problem is they have to admit they can stop and want to stop. If your man doesn't think there's anything wrong with his behavior and doesn't see a need to change, then he won't. You need to give the boy a big ol wakeup call of some kind, whatever you think will jolt him the most, and use it.

[–]OnWarmLeatherette1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, him ever telling you that he misses banging randos from the bar is purely to test your reaction to the fact that he’s doing it or actively planning on doing it. He took you as subservient enough to tell it to your face to gauge if he has made headway in breaking you down to want a threesome, but your reaction proved he is just gonna cheat instead.

My advice is: FUCK THIS IDIOT. NOT LITERALLY. WTF are you doing expecting him to love you the way you dream of being loved when he has literally told you things that I could NEVER imagine a husband (let alone a boyfriend) saying to me.

Girl, stop trying to see yourself as the issue. You can still love someone and understand that they are the issue and not your perfect partner.

[–]Theendisnearornot0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Okay, first of all I didn’t read everything word for word because it got to be a bit....much.

Have you never felt any attraction for another man (emotionally or physically)? It doesn’t turn off with marriage.

We were driving and my husband saw a woman running in short shorts. He said, “when we aren’t having sex, seeing that makes it sooo hard to not be attracted “. He was trying to explain how turned on he is visually. I said “look, I get it doesn’t go away because we are married. But I don’t need to hear about it”. And he has been respectful of that for me. Just as I don’t gush over some guys muscles I might find attractive. It’s like a nice painting - you look, don’t touch and move on.

Secondly, it is OK to have boundaries about what you are willing to hear from your husband. If he is going on about these other woman I would absolutely say “no, I won’t sit here and listen to this”.

As for your insecurities I think it is realizing that you can’t and won’t be his all and all (emotionally, sexually, spiritually). This is something I struggle with, but doing things like self-care and focusing on me and what I am doing helps a ton.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The only times I've ever even *considered* the beginning of a thought about another man has been at our very weakest moments, and then it was only because I was trying to stop being depressed and act cheerful around my husband, and I wanted to try to get myself to experience what it felt like to feel happy in a relationship. At the time, things were so bad with my husband that I literally could not imagine him being loving toward me, and I briefly wondered if another type of man might love me. I felt horrified at giving space in my heart to a hypothetical man, and since then, nothing. I really don't get turned on by looks, though. I'm not blind, I can obviously see and appreciate if a man is handsome or well-built or charming, but it doesn't reach me inside. I don't know.. I guess it is like a nice painting, but I have never loved a painting. I guess I just really don't understand how people separate sexuality from everything else about who they are. Everything I see, do, think about, and believe affects my sexuality. I don't understand for one second how a thinking, smart and sane person can try to compartmentalize their sexuality.

I dunno. I think men are often just rationalizing what scraps of hedonism they can snatch. I just wish more men strove to be honorable and to love virtue for its own sake, instead of reacting to negative consequences. It's disappointing to look around me and realize that there are so very few real men in the world, and a real man of high caliber is so life-giving and miraculous, and it's what we all desperately need.

[–]McLuhanSaidItFirst1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

We were driving and my husband saw a woman running in short shorts. He said, “when we aren’t having sex, seeing that makes it sooo hard to not be attracted “. He was trying to explain how turned on he is visually. I said “look, I get it doesn’t go away because we are married. But I don’t need to hear about it”. And he has been respectful of that for me.

I understood this completely differently from the way you did.

He saw an attractive woman, and then opened up his mind /feelings to you and told you that sex with you makes it easier for him to stay focused on you. He was giving you raw unfiltered insight into his emotional connection to you through sex, his motivations and values and what works best for him in your relationship.

You took it to mean that he was telling you he's visually oriented. That is trivially obvious about almost all men, so I doubt he was informing you he's a visual guy. I think he was making a point about how important it is to him that the two of you have sex - he needs it to feel attached to you, to have you on his mind exclusively. Do you want him to focus on you exclusively? He just told you how to make that happen.

Saying “look, I get it doesn’t go away because we are married" seems pissy: "look" is a command. "I get it" sounds like "don't patronize me" and "I don’t need to hear about it”= 'shut up'.

"he has been respectful of that for me" makes me wonder what other things he has wanted to say to you about your marriage but he has instead shut up about them, since being shot down for opening up about what is important to him.

[–]Theendisnearornot0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Welp, that's fine you took it that way. It was 10 years ago and I don't recall the whole conversation. I am paraphrasing it. He basically told me he was sexually turned on by someone we were looking at. I wasn't crazy to know about that at the moment (I believe i was very pregnant at the time as well). He didn't take it the "wrong way" from me either. We both laughed it off and have talked about it since. He doesn't care for me to make comments like that regarding the opposite sex so he's respecting my wishes just as much as I'm respecting his.

[–]McLuhanSaidItFirst0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]OnWarmLeatherette0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He’s going to cheat if he’s not already. Why are you giving this dork so many passes to assert himself as your user?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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