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Rugby11
[–]Camille1132510 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
I’m not sure if you posted this post because you feel like it is in line with RPW ideas or if you are posting it for us to dissect and discuss. I’ll assume the second one though because this is definitely not what RPW is interested in at all. I have too many thoughts so I’ll just do bullet points and respond to things chronologically!
The distinction people are making between Islam and Islamism is idiotic and only further preventing people from addressing the very real issue. It isn’t some extreme faction of the faith that is perpetuating violent acts, and it isn’t a small proportion that want to see Islamic culture replace existing Western cultures. There are tons of studies, polls, and in depth resources that explain this in greater detail, it’s not the point of the post so I won’t dwell too long on this. But for the article to open by comparing modern feminism to “Islamism” is a terrible sign haha
Feminists don’t own the idea of men and women having equal rights under the law. The granting of specific legal rights to women is not and has never been the totality of feminism. There have always been statements about male and female nature, roles in society, and more that are mixed in with the subject of legal rights. It is 100% possible to believe that women should have access to education or property rights without also agreeing with feminism.
The assertion that feminism has improved civilisation and that we should be proud of what it’s accomplished is just hilarious! This sub talks a lot about the negative impact feminism has on the SMP but it has also negatively affected the economy, politics, and our culture.
Pretending that it’s only modern feminists who are “extreme” is ignoring the history of feminism itself.
“Feminism, by its classic definition, is the advocacy for gender equality. “ Believing that men and women are objectively equal in worth and/or deserve equal rights is not the same thing as being a feminist. Feminists believe that men and women are the same, that the only reason there are gender differences is because of one’s upbringing and cultural pressure. This is a major tenet that drives so many of their claims and actions.
I disagree that its necessary to have a feminist movement to fight for issues. A lot of things that are currently labeled as “women’s issues” really don't have to be “women’s issues”. For example abortion, it involves 2 or 3 people, depending on your view of when life starts. For the purpose of this comment let’s just focus on the parents. Currently women have 100% of the decision making power when it comes to bringing life into the world and men have to deal with it no matter what. If she has a baby and he doesn’t want it, he is still financially obligated to pay for it. If he does want a baby and she doesn’t, she can just kill it without his input, even if they are married. It’s more than just a woman’s issue, its a family issue, and when men are boxed out, and all women are lumped together by feminists claiming to be speaking for us, so many people are unhappy and unheard.
“Healthy feminism” is an oxymoron lol
“Feminism is a movement that fights for gender equality in status, rights, and opportunities. “ What this really means is fighting to have women be viewed on par with men, valuing the male sphere more than the female sphere, and wanting to exercise masculine hard power. In addition it means extending the power of the state so that these new rules and standards can be enforced. It also is pretty irrelevant today – what legal rights do women not have that men do? If anything women have more rights.
Yes this article calls out a lot of bad things about modern feminism, but classic feminism or “healthy feminism” isn’t any better!
[–]StingrayVC8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I got as far as, something along the line of, real feminism being conflated with the crazy feminist today.
Look feminists, if your most vocal people are crazy and that is what people are being most exposed to that is exactly what feminism is.
I'm tired of people trying to take a step back because they see that their movement is being destroyed from the inside and trying to change history to make it look like it was never like what our lying eyes tell us it truly is.
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I feel like articles like this are a bit passive aggressive and the underlying message is "you should be a feminist, but you misunderstood what it meant and wrongly rejected it, but if you support feminism like you should all will be forgiven, you bad person"
Nope.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
you should be a feminist, but you misunderstood what it meant and wrongly rejected it
This is the most common initial argument I hear from feminists trying to "convert" me. It usually turns from "you just misunderstand" to "you're an evil person" pretty quickly.
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I get what they want, but I think they're mixing up freedom and desires. I could have studied to become an engineer I guess, but why should I if i'm happier doing something more fitting with my nature?
Equality shouldn't be about being the same, but not being stopped from doing things, to me. And feminists don't seem to get that, they talk like they don't get that men and women aren't the same.
[–]StingrayVC4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Exactly. It calls everyone who doesn't like what they see as feminism an idiot for believing what they see with their own eyes. And unfortunately, a lot of people, not wanting to be thought of as an idiot, will believe them.
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's a nasty form of peer pressure when the implication made is you are anti-women if you aren't a feminist. It was at uni that the behaviour of feminists finally made me think the whole philosophy was rotten.
[–]Rugby11[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I know Wanted to learn what you would say its why i shared it. Thanks for teaching me new things.
[–]Camille11325[M] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Next time include your thoughts and purpose for submitting in the comments, or submit the link in a text post and share your intentions there. It's helpful when the OP sets the frame for the discussion. If I hadn't commented first this post probably would have been removed because it's against the subreddit rules.
[–]Rugby11[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh... I meant to stirr up something i could challenge myself with.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Typically it's appropriate to make the first comment as a submission statement -- Why did you post this article? What were your thoughts on it? What questions do you have for the other's reading it?
[–]Camille113252 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Oops I commented the same thing before seeing that you said it already (was responding from my messages page not this page). Thanks for stepping in :)
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Welcome :) Your top level comment was really spot on. I appreciated you writing that whole thing out.
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[–]Camille1132510 points11 points12 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]StingrayVC8 points9 points10 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total8 points9 points10 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]StingrayVC4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rugby11[S] 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Camille11325[M] 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Rugby11[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Camille113252 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link