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Relationship Dynamics Part One (Updated + Expanded!)

April 14, 2016

A New Way of Looking At Relationship Dynamics

An understanding of RP concepts and terms is required before reading and commenting on this post. Please note that this entire theory is limited to describing average and attractive people (5+ on the SMV scale), and of course, these are generalisations, not ironclad universal laws. A series of follow up posts will explore these ideas more, this is merely an introduction.

Our disposition, personality, and behaviour all have a profound effect on the types of relationships we thrive in. A couple doesn’t need to be identical, but the right balance of traits is necessary for compatibility. This new RP theory focuses on two important characteristics: the dominance level of each person, as well as the woman’s dominance threshold.

Your “Dominance Level” (DL) measures attributes such as your natural tendency to assume the lead and how you exercise authority in interactions. DL takes into account all behaviour, it is not limited to actions within a romantic relationship. For the purposes of this post I will use a scale of 0 - 10 to discuss DL, with 10 representing the maximum possible level of dominance one can have. There are separate male and female scales - a woman who is a 6 is not more dominant than a man who is a 5, and a man who is a 10 is more dominant than a female 10.

How are dominance levels expressed in men?

A 10 has 100% alpha traits, and a 0 has 100% beta traits. As you move across the spectrum, the ratio shifts. So a 2 has 20% alpha traits, a 6 has 60%, etc.

  • Men who are lowest in dominance (0-3.5 on the DL scale) have the highest ratio of beta traits in comparison to alpha traits. They can be easygoing, empathetic, gentle, and considerate. They can also be sensitive, emotional, unconfident, indecisive, and soft. Keep in mind that these are just a few examples, these traits do not define these men nor are they required to be in this category.

  • The 3.5s-6s exhibit more alpha traits but their nature is that of a “greater beta”. These men are able to provide comfort and leadership as required in a relationship. Most women have men in this category, especially on RPW. If you are looking for a “medium dominance” category, this is where your man belongs (but to be clear, he is still in the "low dominance" category of this system).

  • Men who are a 6-8.5 on the DL scale have a higher ratio of alpha traits in comparison to beta traits. There are many types of alpha men: apex, renegade, patriarchal, criminal, corporate, political, etc. and they all have different characteristics that allow them to succeed and take charge in their respective environments. One thing they all have in common is an immense amount of masculinity, which can be both good and bad.

  • 8.5 - 10s can fall into any of the alpha subtypes. They also have the highest amounts of Dark Triad traits, and are the rarest group of men.

How are dominance levels expressed in women?

The alpha/beta ratio does not apply to the female dominance scale. There are no easy, clear cut terms for the spectrum, just various dispositions and behaviours. While the ratio of masculinity and femininity plays a role, the DL is not measuring either of those traits directly. I have chosen both positive and negative examples for each type but again, these are generalisations and only a fraction of the possible characteristics one can have.

  • Women who are in the low dominance category (0-6) are non confrontational, sensitive, and accommodating. They are psychologically feminine, not only with their men but in their everyday lives, automatically. They can be doormats, passive, weak, and insecure if they do not learn how to prioritise themselves first instead of others. This does not mean that they are incapable of having any of the traits that high dominance women have, just that the concentration of H traits lowers as you approach zero (and vice versa with H women and L traits).

  • High Dominance Women (6.5-10) are more confident, driven, assertive, and ambitious. They can also be more masculinised, argumentative, self serving, and insubordinate. Some women like to think of themselves as “alpha women” but this is a myth, not an RP concept. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that being high dominance is superior. Both categories have their strengths and weaknesses. Feminists have pushed the idea that male characteristics and virtues are a universal ideal that all should strive for so women are encouraged to be high dominance. The only way that high dominance women can have romantic success with a dominant man is if they can master psychological femininity and deference within their relationship.

Your “Dominance Threshold” indicates how dominant your man has to be in order for you to feel attraction, commitment, and love. I will also be using the 0-10 dominance scale when referring to the dominance threshold. For the purposes of this discussion it is assumed that all women have a range of 0-2 points past their threshold where attraction is possible. The threshold is the minimum but most women who prefer a 5.5/10 would not be comfortable with an 8 or higher.

How are dominance thresholds expressed in women?

  • Women with low dominance thresholds require less alpha, and more beta in their relationships. This means more affection and softness, more obvious and frequent displays of love and care. These women are repelled by or afraid of extreme displays of male aggression, anger, or arrogance. They also do not like strict boundaries or being controlled. They are suited for betas and greater betas.

  • Women with high dominance thresholds require more alpha, less beta. They crave arousal, displays of power, raw masculinity, etc. from their man and view the same beta traits the low threshold women love as weaknesses. They are perfect mates for all types of alphas.

  • When a man’s DL is way too low for a woman, she reacts with disgust or infantilisation. If it is merely a point or two lower you’ll see shit tests. If it’s slightly too high, she’ll comfort test, and when it’s way too high she’ll be afraid. This applies to all women regardless of their threshold or dominance level.

Taking the 4 categories into account (low/high DL, low/high threshold) there are 8 possible relationship combinations. Not all are optimal or RP but all of the dynamics exist in the real world. Moving forward we will use these labels within the subreddit in our discussions and the advice we give.

By using a combination of 3 letters (all of which are either H or L) we can refer to each dynamic with ease. The first letter establishes the man’s dominance level, the second the woman’s, and then the third is for her dominance threshold. So a high dominance man (H) with a low dominance woman (L), who has a high threshold (H), would be described as HLH. A low dominance man (L) with a low dominance woman (L), who has a low dominance threshold (L), would be LLL.

Now onto an overview of the dynamics, which will be described with an emphasis on the effect on the woman. They are ordered from least potential to be RP to most potential to be RP, with 3 equally RP dynamics, there is not one universally ideal dynamic. Please keep in mind that these descriptions are all generalisations of what is most likely to happen, there are always exceptions. Note: future posts will help you identify your dynamic, do not fixate on labeling yourself from this introductory post.

  • High dominance man, high dominance/low threshold woman (HHL) - she vies for dominance and feels little to no comfort or security. Possible violence as she is likely to stir up trouble by constantly challenging her man.

  • High man, low/low woman (HLL) - she needs more beta comfort and can’t stay motivated when feeling unloved. She feels he is mean or scary. There is also a strong chance of violence in this relationship which only further discourages the LL woman from being her best and creates a cycle where the man is constantly punishing her.

  • Low man, high/high woman (LHH) - she walks all over him or bosses around. This is a very common dynamic as it is what usually happens when a woman is out of the CC riding/AF phase and has settled for her beta bucks.

  • Low man, low/high woman (LLH) - she is repulsed and/or can’t respect him, wishes he was more dominant. Whenever you see an RPW post where the OP asks: “How can I get my main to be the captain” or says “I tried captain/first mate but he’s not taking the lead” then you know it’s an LLH situation.

  • Low man, high/low woman (LHL) - a lot of feminist relationships are like this, and they can work, and people can be happy in them. There is also a chance that the woman walks all over the man and disrespects him and he just puts up with it. It all depends on how attracted the woman is to her man, and how well he is able to maintain that attraction.

  • High man, high/high woman (HHH) - potential to be RP if the woman respects the man. “Captain and First Mate” as described by RPW is not an adequate description of the dynamics in HHH relationships. This combination can be a power couple, or there can be violence if the woman does not defer to the man (think Chris Brown and Rihanna).

  • High man, low/high woman (HLH) - potential to be RPW and a classic fantasy that is not seen as much in reality. The woman is naturally submissive and aware of it. She is drawn to a dominant man and requires power over her. There is a strong sense of ownership and there can also be a paternalistic element to the dynamic. This differs from HHH relationships in that the woman is not a partner in crime, but rather a source of support and feminine energy while the man takes on challenges. At its worst, HLH relationships involve the man taking advantage of and abusing the woman.

  • Low man, low/low woman (LLL) - this is the most common both in and out of the subreddit. Contrary to what many may assume, most rpw are interested in or already with greater betas! When done right, these relationships are the epitome of the captain and first mate concept. The man leads and the woman occupies the traditional female role, but it may not feel like submission or deferment to her because of the lack of power imposed explicitly. If the man fails to take the lead, the woman may feel forced to assume that role and her respect for her man will decline. If no one assumes the lead, arguments are more likely to happen, and again, the woman will lose respect for the man.

Can you change your dominance level?

You can absolutely eliminate the personality traits that hinder your success. If you are a high dominance woman, you may need to work on being less controlling, argumentative, or disobedient. RPW is great for that! If you are low dominance, you can become more assertive, confident, and more. However, men who want the traditional, RP relationships are not interested in women who do not listen to or respect them, so it’s important not to go too far in the other direction.

Can you change your dominance threshold?

Attraction is non-negotiable. It’s important to be aware of and honest about your preferences and select a partner wisely. Understanding how men think can help you become more comfortable with a man that has a DL way higher than your threshold. If you are with a man who’s DL is below your threshold RPW can help you with respect, loyalty, and all of the other issues that come with those dynamics. Your threshold may change naturally over time based on life experiences, as you learn what you actually like in relationships.

What can we do with this information?

As mentioned earlier, this system will be a great way to have everyone on the same page when it comes to discussing relationships and giving advice. We should all be aware of our biases, and our individual dominance levels and thresholds greatly affect the responses we leave about other people’s relationships.

A lot of women with low dominance thresholds can’t understand masculine, dominant men, and that contributes to them advising women to leave their men in certain instances or worrying that something is abusive. The reverse also applies, women with high dominance thresholds are less able to wrap their heads around how other women can stay with and be attracted to low dominance men.

It is important to be aware of our biases and work to overcome solipsism. It’s not about what we would do in their situation, but what they should do in their situation. Hopefully having the language to identify dynamics will help us all provide suggestions that work well with whatever dynamic a user is involved in.

Thank you for reading, I hope this all made sense and was helpful! I have an entire series planned out so be patient and allow me to flesh out the theory over time. Thank you so much /u/wingnut and /u/PhantomDream09 for all of your help and for lending an ear as I worked on the theory! The next post in the series will be about female dominance levels. I’ve created a quiz that will help you figure out where you are on the DL spectrum so get excited!


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Post Information
Title Relationship Dynamics Part One (Updated + Expanded!)
Author Camille11325
Upvotes 39
Comments 43
Date April 14, 2016 2:13 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWives
Archive Link
Original Link

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A true piece of original theory. Your identification of the threshold dimension still blows me away

[–]Camille11325[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you <3

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I just wanted to stress that there is no 'ideal' because ultimately these things are all diagnostic tools that allow users to identify what they are personally, and the dynamic of their relationship in order to better understand what they need to be happy, feel attraction, and improve themselves and their relationships. It's not that LHL or HHH relationships are 'superior' and LLL is some trap to avoid.

Users need to be honest with themselves, because that's the only way these ideas can really provide insight and be useful.

Just a general note to everyone that reads this thread, and a the future installments. :0)

Also, please do not take these ideas and run wild with them by trying to build in additional components, there will be plenty of time later for that to happen after Camille has had a chance to share her thoughts fully.

[–]Camille11325[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes this cannot be stressed enough!!

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The next post in the series will be about female dominance levels. I’ve created a quiz that will help you figure out where you are on the DL spectrum so get excited!


This is really one the best RPW posts ever. I know I've been attracted to high dominant men but I can never tell my own dominance level. I look forward to the next post in the series!

[–]Camille11325[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you so much! You can beta test the quiz in irc when it's ready :)

[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can I alpha test it though?

[–]sariaru5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm so happy to see this post back!

Do you think that using these three-letter shorthands in our flairs would be a welcome addition, so that we could give more tailored advice at a glance? And people asking for advice could see where we're coming from when we give it as well. If this layout is going to become a serious part of our thought process as we go forward in the sub (and I think it totally should because it's amazing), it might be a useful thing to have in flairs.

However, some of the flair tags are already quite long, and I could see also how people might not want to add more to it. Just a thought!

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you! The flairs are a little long, but it's a good idea to have users self report. I think we'll update the advice questions to include the relationship dynamic once enough material from the series is out. At this point I don't think a lot of women can accurately label themselves, but everyone in IRC is great at identifying the dynamics so I have no doubt that ECs and other active members can use this information in the comment sections across the sub.

Thank you so much for reading and commenting!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I love this post! Rpw has helped me reign in my dominant self and become less so for my relationship. My husband is a greater beta, he stands in as the leader IF no one else assumes the role. For a long time I felt like he was very incapable of the smallest of tasks. The. I backed off and he naturally stepped in and stepped up. Whenever I fee my attraction waning, I realize it's usually because I am being too overbearing.

[–]Camille11325[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That is great that you were able to identify and address that aspect of your personality. Thank you for taking the time to read this post and comment!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It was fun! The whole time I was trying to figure out what kind of relationship we were.

[–]Kittenkajira5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm looking forward to the quiz, and hopefully one for figuring out where the guy is on the scale! I had a hard time deciding where I fall - I have characteristics from both the low and high dominance categories (although I definitely have a high dominance threshold). I just can't express how excited I am for your next posts, and the quiz - IRC has picked the wrong night to go down!

[–]Camille11325[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can also beta test the quiz! I didn't think about doing a quiz for men, but that is a great idea. It'll be a lot harder than the DL and threshold quizzes though...stay tuned :)

[–]Kittenkajira3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How exciting!!!

[–]eliza_schuyler 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you for this post. I enjoy reading high quality, well thought out theories, and I feel that this one holds up exceptionally well, as I can see it play out in relationships around me.

I find it interesting that you have identified a "dominance threshold" in women, and I wonder if men have a "threshold" for any particular characteristics of women, or if male thresholds are more closely linked to their dominance level.

I'm looking forward to learning more about this theory in the second instalment.

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Thank you! Yes I think that the thresholds for men are more closely linked to their dominance level. I also think that almost all men want a woman who can be a companion and not a competitor. And that if they could, the overwhelming majority would choose a woman who is psychologically feminine and deferential towards them. Due to the personalities of everyone involved, L men will be more drawn to L women, and H men can pick from both L and H women.

[–]bicepsblastingstud2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps a man's dominance threshold is best viewed as his desire for the woman's dominance towards everybody else? I think it's pretty universal that men want women to be less dominant than they themselves are within the confines of the relationship, but different men will have different thresholds for how dominant they want their partner to behave towards others.

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think most men would also prefer women who are less dominant than they are in social and professional situations. I also don't think this system describes everything that determines a couple's compatibility, there are so many factors when it comes to personalities meshing or clashing. MBTI seems to be key when it comes to male preferences for female behaviour.

[–]Never_EvilEarly 20s | single/dating1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Thanks Camille!! The dominance threshold definitely makes it so much easier to understand couple dynamics, but the 'personality mesh/clash' is an interesting distinction. With MBTI, there's a lot of sites out there that provide 'best matches' of types for relationships---it might help people gain deeper insights on their preferences?

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely! Here is a great chart that shows compatibility between types, and here is a post that /u/PhantomDream09 shared at the start of RPWives about each type when in love. There is way more to explore though and this content is welcome on the sub, as long as it is in line with RPW of course :)

[–]Never_EvilEarly 20s | single/dating2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oouu, perfect! Charts make my life easier & Phantom's post is golden, thanks for linking them ^^

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're welcome!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is super interesting, I think I will be pondering this for a while. I'm honestly not truly sure where either of us fall on this spectrum but it's something to think about, for sure. This is great!

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm happy to have given you something new to think about :)

[–]TempestTcup 4 points4 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This is excellent and will be of great use to everyone in identifying where the stand on the dominance continuum. I can't wait to see the next installment!

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you so much <3

[–]sugarcrush3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I was waiting for this to be posted again! Thanks so much Camille!

I'm pretty sure we would fall into the LLL category. In my experience, it makes for a pretty chill relationship. It's interesting speaking to other people about it. "How are things?" "Good!" "Do you ever fight?" "Not really." They are either impressed by how laid back we are or are entirely bored after 2 minutes lol.

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hahaha LLL seems like the right label for that :)

[–]lisfb4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, wow, this is excellent; thank you for writing this up!

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you and you're welcome!

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Excellent post, and thank you for producing such high quality original content! Your series will definitely help newcomers figure out the kind of relationship they want.

[–]Camille11325[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you so much!

[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This is a great improvement on what was already an amazing post the first time you drafted it. I loved it then and I love it even more now. Especially in that it gives a workable concrete frame of reference that can be used for discussing such immaterial concepts, which will hopefully be hugely helpful for the newer users who have joined us.

I know this was a massive group effort and a huge thank you to anybody who participated in its development.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There wasn't a massive group effort, it was all Camille. :0)

[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What a champion!!

[–]Camille11325[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Glad you enjoyed the post!

[–]Littleknownfacts2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can't wait for the quiz to come out, because I have no idea where I land. Brilliant post as usual Camille!

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you! The quiz will be up next week, I wanted to let everyone refresh themselves on this post before I shared Part 2.

[–]smallpeachmid-20s, dating2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you, Camille! I love reading these types of posts! This one is especially intriguing. Can't wait for your quiz and the rest of this series!

[–]Camille11325[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're welcome :)

[–]aforemangrillearly 20's, single girl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is really interesting, thank you.

[–]snowflacke25+ / complicated0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How did you come up with this, this is truly amazing, it explains so much!

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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