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15 Things Men Want From Women...IMHO

November 1, 2016

Someone asked me to do this for PPD, but I thought it would be interesting to post it here and get a female perspective. I don't know how many of you look at PPD, probably the bickering can get quite tiresome!

So it would be really interesting to know:

(a) if you agree or disagree with any of the 15 points raised;

(b) if you can think of anything on the list that I haven't included.

Oh, I've never posted here, so if I break any of the rules, please feel free to tell me off! I did read the FAQ!

1. Treat him with respect

I wrote a post about this previously, but the scenario of what I call 'The Hapless Male and The Competent Female' has become such a cultural cliché. Particularly in advertising, men are so often depicted as being buffoons. Which is a little harsh considering, as RP rightly points out, men do virtually all of the dangerous jobs. Would I choose to work on a building site, be a scaffolder, or get shot at in a war (leaving aside my criticisms of foreign policy for the sake of argument)? No, I would not! It's completely unreasonable to expect men to do this, and then laugh at them for being pathetic and belittle their interests and desires.

Yet this happens all the time. It's almost become a way for women to bond; let's all get together and bash our husbands! It's quite telling, and I believe an excellent rule, that you ban this on RPW. I would like to see the same on RP itself, I'd like to see less misogyny, less women bashing, and more positivity. But I digress...

When I think back to my mum and dad's relationship, my mum didn't treat him with sufficient respect and emasculated him. Perhaps this was partly because he was a rubbish husband and didn't deliver what women want from a relationship, whereas her current husband does. But my dad was a pretty special person. He was on the books of both professional cricket and football clubs. He got a double-first from one of England's top universities. He was the head of an English department, and a very esteemed teacher. Everything I am and everything I've achieved comes from him really, my values come from my mum.

So anyway...I've waffled on about that too much, but treat your man with basic respect. This is a really important one for me because I expect to be respected. It is not a good idea to disrespect me. If you treat me with respect, I will do everything I can to please you and make you happy.

2. Have your own interests

This is one of the most critical differences between a good guy and a bad guy. A good guy will encourage you to pursue your passions, encourage you to have a busy social life and see your friends and family a lot, and be proud of your every achievement. A bad guy will discourage you, or attempt to dissuade you. Always follow your own interests and passions, and always stay away from bad guys.

3. Listen to him

It's often said that men don't listen to women. And there's a lot of truth in this. But equally, I believe that women don't listen to men, possibly even more so. Communication should be a two-way street. And this ties into the next item on the list, which I believe is of critical importance.

4. Find out what is important to him and try to take an interest in it, even if it's not really your thing

I'm making my mum sound like a terrible person here, which couldn't be further from the truth because she's a wonderful person. But...she did something once that really bugged me, that sums this one up.

I was playing chess on the Internet, and I was never serious about playing chess, but I used to play quite a bit. And she started saying to me as I was playing (and thus distracting me as well) “don't you get bored playing chess all the time?”.

Yeah, I do, mum. That's why I play chess. I just play it so that I can bore myself. I actually hate the game, I'm just masochistic like that.

A common problem in relationships is that both parties fail to take the interests of the other seriously. It means so much if a woman takes the time to understand what matters to you, what you're passionate about, and values it, praises you for it, and takes an interest in it. I'm a writer, and it means a lot to me when a woman tells me that she respects what I've done in my career. I think all guys feel this way.

Let me give you an example. Check this video out:

This guy's wife lets him have a room in the house for his preposterously large retro video games collection. What a fucking woman! That is an extreme example, but that's what I call respecting someone else's interests.

5. Dress up

Quite simple...dress up sexy sometimes, without being prompted to do so. Both in private and in public. Doesn't really need any further explanation.

6. Do something specifically for him from time to time

It could be cooking a favourite meal, it could be, as I suggested above, dressing a certain way, it could be buying him something, it could be getting him tickets for an event...just show that you're thinking about him and care about him. Again, this is far more valuable when it's personalised. I remember my friend's girlfriend buying my friend a rare Sonic Youth album because she knew he really liked them and could never find it, and he appreciated that so much.

7. Recognise when he's stressed and tired

There is a story here that illustrates points 4, 5 and 6. When I was dating a woman some years ago, I had to go away working somewhere, and then I had a long train journey and didn't get back until late on Friday evening. When I got in and walked through the door, she was waiting for me, and she was dressed as a bunny girl. And she was in a really flirtatious mood all evening, and she called me Mr. Browning all evening (well, she actually called me my real name) and she cooked for me and looked after me, and it was the most thoughtful and sexiest thing that anyone has ever done for me. She got plenty in return, trust me.

I found this video that underlines this theme:

I have seen my mum's husband's daughter with her husband, and she is so bloody unreasonable. I've seen more equal relationships on a cotton plantation in Alabama before slavery was banned! He works his balls off, and all she does is set him new tasks to do. Of course, it is partly his fault for being supplicating and going along with it. But try to be reasonable and don't be a slave driver!

8. Share some interests

I like being with a woman who is different from me, as it's nice to learn from your partner and embrace things that you wouldn't otherwise. But, ideally, you should have some interests that you can share. If these don't come along easily, both parties should be responsible for trying to think of activities that can be done together.

9. Closeness and intimacy

Men are all about pussy and fucking and orgasms, and we don't enjoy all those girly things like closeness and intimacy, right? Wrong. There is nothing I love more than to hold a woman. I love spooning in particular. I love to hold someone close to me. I love kissing. This is of absolutely essential importance to me in a sustained relationship. I'm sure most guys would agree with that.

10. Flirt with him

Just because we've attracted you, fucked you numerous times, and fathered children with you, it doesn't mean that we want you to stop flirting with us. We go through fucking hell in some cases to find a woman who finds us sexy. We never tire of being flirted with, or being made to feel sexy and masculine. So don't stop doing it. Ever.

11. Make an effort in bed

Some men are shit in bed. However, most men absolutely want to please their partners, and we love it when you orgasm. Don't be all about yourself, though, give something back. That doesn't mean do things that you don't want to do, but it means that his pleasure should be as importance as yours.

And I would add to that, tell him that it was good (or if it wasn't good, try to give him pointers). I remember one girl I slept with when I was much younger, it was a weird thing, but I could just make her cum so easily. We had a real chemistry, it was weird. But I remember one time I was with her, after we'd finished she looked in my eyes and said “well...that was a bloody good shag”. That means a lot.

12. Initiate sex occasionally

A savvy guy knows it is his responsibility to initiate sex. But we honestly don't mind you doing it sometimes! We like to feel that you desire us too! Don't be scared to initiate sex, even if it's only 10% of the time that you actually have sex. This will be appreciated.

13. Don't make him play unreasonable guessing games

There is a joke in The Simpsons about this:

When a woman says nothing's wrong, that means everything's wrong. And when a woman says everything's wrong, that means everything's wrong. And when a woman says something's not funny, you'd better not laugh your ass off!

I understand that men have to use social intuition in order to understand women and satisfy them, but acting like a bitch over some perceived misdemeanour, slight or failing is not reasonable behaviour. If he's done something wrong, there really is little or no excuse for not simply telling him what's wrong, instead of expecting him to guess and creating a horrible atmosphere for no good reason.

14. Keep yourself in shape

Pretty straightforward, take pride in your appearance and don't let yourself go. This should apply to both parties.

15. Always be yourself

Whenever I've seen Cosmopolitan or other similar women's magazines, there is always some bullshit article in there about how you have to act to keep your man, or some other such shite.

Women don't have to do anything to make us like you. We already like you. You have no idea how much we like you. Thank God that you will never truly understand this!

If we're with you, it means that we like you. You don't have to change your personality, character, or significantly alter your behaviour, except for showing some basic consideration. Again, this would be another be another red flag of a bad guy; he will try to fundamentally change you. A good guy will always cherish you for who you are, if you treat him with respect.

Always be true to yourself. Always be yourself.

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Post Information
Title 15 Things Men Want From Women...IMHO
Author wub1234
Upvotes 98
Comments 32
Date November 1, 2016 12:41 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
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[–]TheLaughingRhino 9 points9 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Really good list here.

A few I might even add here would be, if no one minds

A) Don't engage with a guy in any kind of relationship if you don't find him attractive. - I know this seems a bit nebulous, but sometimes it appears a woman will date a man to start, maybe she's lonely. Maybe her options at that point weren't plentiful. Maybe she's on the rebound and this guy is a stark contrast to the last that hurt her. Maybe all her friends are with guys and socially she feels left out. Maybe her biological clock is triggering her in a way that impacts her picker. Maybe she's just bored. Maybe her parents or friends or coworkers might convince her that "this is a really good guy, he will be good to you, and do right by you"

There are men I have known, either as friends or worked with or through other people, who have never had their wives or even GFs initiate intimacy even once. They receive "duty sex" After a while, the level of irritation and jabbing increase. The more the guy tries, the worse it becomes ( Everything seems to get the assignment of blame except the fact that she never was attracted to him to start)

Maybe another way to approach is that men want to be with someone that truly wants them.

B) Show empathy to men in general, when appropriate, and ask the same of men you are with - I do not like to subscribe to the idea that women are the enemy. Sadly a lot of guys have been hurt and take this stance. A lot of women take the stance that men in general are the enemy. Nothing is worse for a guy IMHO than seeing a woman he's interested in talk about men in general, then be dismissive of their feelings or issues outright.

Guys don't like being "judged" on their choices that have nothing to do with you. They don't like being told what they "should do" or "should not do" when the issue has nothing to do with you specifically.

I.E. if that is "that much consideration" you will show a guy in terms of how you see men overall, how will you eventually treat him specifically? My guess is with the same harshness.

It is refreshing, and just very rare, to meet a woman who is wiling to articulate that men in general don't have it easy, and that any form of weakness isn't instantly poison to them from men in general. People are human, it is often dehumanizing to be a guy and feel as if you must be stoic at all times. Maybe it's the flip side to many women feeling exhausted over being sexually objectified so often or that looks operates as the greater currency over any other part of their character at large. I want to be able to tell a woman that I recognize it cannot be easy to be a woman in modern society. I want to be able to hear her say it cannot be easy to be a man in modern society.

[–]wub1234[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for your comments.

There are men I have known, either as friends or worked with or through other people, who have never had their wives or even GFs initiate intimacy even once. They receive "duty sex" After a while, the level of irritation and jabbing increase. The more the guy tries, the worse it becomes ( Everything seems to get the assignment of blame except the fact that she never was attracted to him to start)

In my mum's husband's first marriage, his wife completely denied him sex. I don't know if she was just of a repressed generation and genuinely had no interest in sex, or didn't find him attractive but knew he was a good provider. I suspect the former. I could tell you so many tales about this marriage, and things that she did, which are truly horrendous (although I haven't heard her side of the story, so I try not to jump to conclusions). Naturally he had affairs, but he stayed with her for decades, until he met my mum. Because of the kids, because he thought it was his beta role to be dutiful towards his wife (although he wouldn't know what 'beta' means). The best years of his life went down the drain in a dreadfully unhappy marriage, yet he stuck with her until he was 50+. Eventually he left her for my mum. I don't want to go through what some of his lousy kids did at that time.

Thankfully, he has a wonderfully happy marriage with my mum now, although I can't comment about their sex life!

Show empathy to men in general, when appropriate, and ask the same of men you are with - I do not like to subscribe to the idea that women are the enemy. Sadly a lot of guys have been hurt and take this stance. A lot of women take the stance that men in general are the enemy. Nothing is worse for a guy IMHO than seeing a woman he's interested in talk about men in general, then be dismissive of their feelings or issues outright.

Yes, I totally agree. I hinted at this by mentioning the rule that you have on RPW.

I want to be able to tell a woman that I recognize it cannot be easy to be a woman in modern society. I want to be able to hear her say it cannot be easy to be a man in modern society.

I've tried to explain to women that men face many challenges. I've tried to tell men in the 'manosphere' that life being a woman isn't one big picnic. You've got a tough job to get through to either party.

[–]rpwthrowaway20166 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It makes me sad that this would not be considered common knowledge or instinctive behavior. To me, if you exercised some empathy, one would realize the majority of these points.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I quite agree, however I feel this can be said about most of what we practiceh ere at RPW.

[–]HelloImRIGHT4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Coming from a guy - yes to all of these.

[–]crx14 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. Be educated

  2. Be mature (in your behavior, actions as well as language)

  3. Never stop improving yourself

[–]Mentathiel2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I agree with most of this!

If he's done something wrong, there really is little or no excuse for not simply telling him what's wrong, instead of expecting him to guess and creating a horrible atmosphere for no good reason.

I'd just like to add that you could cut us some slack here. Making a big deal out of small things is one thing, but we sometimes feel guilty over wanting to get emotional and ruin everyone's mood and demand attention etc, but we're used to how we think and perceive the world and women are generally better at picking up subtle cues, body language etc. and the things we expect you to notice, we would generally notice. It's like... I don't know, for me it's comparable to math and spacial thinking in general, for instance, but just pick something you're generally good at naturally, something you've always kinda grasped easily and found trivial when somebody explained you. You gradually learn that not all people think like that, but you often still catch yourself expecting them to, right? It's so obvious to you, so you project that skill onto other people. It's like getting really savvy in a certain field and suddenly surprising yourself with how much terminology you have to explain to a layman or something. Well, that. That's what we feel and we sometimes simply forget you might genuinely not notice anything and we feel like you don't care because you're not addressing it.

This is actually something people should talk about more, everyone's so confused over this, women keep complaining about men not caring and men keep complaining about women being complicated and nobody stops to think if there's some underlying principle to a repeated, universal misunderstanding. I'm not implying this is the only reason, but I think it's a big part of it.

[–]wub1234[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I like to think that I'm emotionally literate, I think I am far more so than most men. So I would like to think that I'm quite good at this. But it can be frustrating when a woman clams up, but won't tell you why she is clamming up, and expects you to guess.

It's difficult because it is part of the social role of men to use intuition to understand what women are feeling, and indeed what buttons to press. But it's not always easy. I think many women actually don't understand men at all, and we're less complex than women, so imagine what it's like for us trying to understand you lot!

I suppose also women are less accustomed to conflict than men. Virtually all male relationships are defined by competition, often even within families. Conflict is normal for us. Whereas women don't want that conflict if they can avoid it.

Anyway, that was an interesting post, I'm not entirely sure that the solution is!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it can be frustrating when a woman clams up

Even now that I am aware of the AWALT BS we put men through, I still find myself doing some of it sometimes. It is insane how irrational you can be and be unaware of it. Thankfully I recognize it and can fix my behavior now, but to think that I still can act like that is astounding to me, not to mention frustrating.

Just recently I found myself doing this very thing to my husband, clamming up and waiting for him to first of all notice I was upset and secondly let him guess as to why I was mad. I literally found myself thinking, "lets see how long it takes him to guess this time..." In a totally self entitled way, as if he should be able to immediately know why I'm upset! I caught myself as soon as I thought it and then said "Sadie, you're being an assh**le, shut it down!" (😂 Yes, I do talk to myself like that!)

But my long winded point is, I couldn't tell you what posses women to play this game with men because I truly don't know the answer. I believe that is the definition of irrational.

[–]Mentathiel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, when you do notice, but they won't tell you it is annoying. But this is kind of a mutual problem, men hide feelings when they're obviously upset all the time. The major difference is men usually don't want you to know genuinely, while women do, so they become passive-aggressive or cold. I don't think this is excusable, you shouldn't take things out on others, even when they are in the wrong, I was referring to things like wanting something (say, you're really stressed, so you want more attention/care than usual), but being hesitant to demand it, either because you don't think you deserve it, you think it'd be too much of a burden, you feel irrational, you are afraid the other party is going to feel guilty over not noticing earlier etc. The rational thing to do would be either to ask for it or let it go, but we kind of think it'd be better to let it go, but then we start to think of "how nice it would be if just" and get carried away and we start to give off more and more signs in order to get what we want, but still not feel like we were demanding it or being unreasonable or entitled.

I'm not necessarily excusing it. Maybe it's not even a natural process, maybe we're just not that toughened up and used to taking responsibility for our emotions and asking for what we need, so we try to shift blame. Or maybe it is natural and serves some sort of purpose in manipulating men to feel guilty and unworthy so they wouldn't leave us. Or maybe it's a learned subconscious mechanism for achieving this biological absolute. But whatever it is, I think it's beneficial that you understand what's going through our heads at the time, that can help you figure out how to deal with it when it comes up and can help us recognize and prevent these sorts of thoughts/behaviors.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well said.

[–]hot-breakfast1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Great list. +1 for number 7. It took my wife a long time to understand that by the time I'm saying "I'm tired" I probably mean "I'm ragged out exhausted and I can't take any more."

[–]wub1234[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think everyone needs a bit of space sometimes. I think it's vital for that space to be granted.

[–]Kalikaet0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

A bit late to the thread but I am currently having a problem with this. You are a guy and all of your points are similar to my BF's points (not ESL, so excuse some weird phrasing/words)

How do I convince myself that when my SO needs space, it means just that. I have only been through one relationship in the past (last for more than a decade) and my former partner used to use 'need space' as in 'I am actually testing you, don't give me space when I asks you for space', so I just cannot help but to wonder if I am being tested again sometimes. We are also LDR two continents, so needing space means radio silence for days sometimes and it is admittedly hard.

[–]wub1234[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Okay, firstly it's not easy. It's no easier for extroverts to change their nature than it is for introverts to change our nature. You can't change who you are. But you can manage it.

So let me give you two pieces of advice. Firstly, it's partly a case of managing your own mind. Emotionally, you will start to feel a certain way, but what you have to try to tell yourself is what you rationally know to be true. Don't wallow in your emotional state and give in to your emotions, affirm what you know to be objectively the case, literally say it to yourself in your head if need be.

Secondly, you will find that when he has recharged his introvert batteries, he will come looking for you. He will want the closeness then. So what I would recommend is when he's having some downtime, just try to do something fun and keep yourself busy.

I realise this can be quite irritating, but it's just the way that we are. The good things about introverts is that we tend to really like intimacy and be more sensitive. The bad thing is we're not always the best at showing it. But we just need a bit of space sometimes, it doesn't mean that we don't care, the complete opposite is usually the case.

[–]Kalikaet0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow, thank you man. This post got through me. This makes me feel better, because you mentioned introverted in your post. I forgot to mention to you that, yes, my lovely boy is introverted despite working with people and having a lot of friends.

Also spot on with the seeking me out after recharging his battery. I would have not thought of it if you haven't mentioned it here. I really want to show him this post at some point. He'd be so surprised a total stranger understands him so well.

[–]wub1234[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No worries. You will probably find that he's a very similar Myers-Briggs group to me.

Something else you could do is look up 'mastering your emotions'. I speak as someone who used to be extremely bad at this, but is getting slightly better!

[–]videlachkadua0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This might help me a lot. I remember reading an article about how women can increase their smv. So this reminds me of that article. This also applies to my dad, despite not being in a relationship with him. He works 60 hours so I need to learn ways to let him relax.

[–]mabeol0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

What a great list! My SO is a textbook introvert, and #7 has been an important one for me. When he's dead tired and just needs to be alone and recharge, it's not personal. It's just the truth, and if I take it personally, it'll just add to his stress and exhaustion. So I respect his space and make sure he knows I'm available if he wants some company when he's feeling exhausted. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. Either way, I respect his wishes, and always have a happy, restored SO the next day :) not an easy lesson to learn (t's so easy to be like "why won't you play with meee"), but an important one, especially when your SO is an introverted Sigma.

I also love #9. I don't think I'll ever understand just how powerful cuddling is for my SO but I make an effort to never, ever turn him down for a snuggle.

[–]wub1234[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm an introverted Sigma too, so I know what you're dealing with!

not an easy lesson to learn (t's so easy to be like "why won't you play with meee")

That was a cute explanation, it reminded me of this clip:

You're a dog, he's a cat!

I also love #9. I don't think I'll ever understand just how powerful cuddling is for my SO but I make an effort to never, ever turn him down for a snuggle.

Well, let me try to explain. I'm pretty dominant, particularly in bed, but then I have a very sensitive side as well. It took me time to learn that my dominant side is a good thing and my sensitive side is a good thing, and it's like a graphic equaliser; sometimes it's good to turn up the treble, and sometimes you want to turn up the bass.

So I think when I'm horny and I have testosterone coursing through my veins I'm a completely different person. But then at other times, my more sensitive side will come out. And when that is prevalent, I feel very strong sensations of protectiveness. Particularly after sex, I just really want to hold my woman, and make her feel warm and safe and protected. And it's just pleasing to feel that closeness and the warmth of her body and to feel that you've satisfied her. Minutes before that, I want to absolutely pound her and show her that I'm dominant. I can only attribute it to a chemical change.

But they're both sides of who I am, neither is more important or authentic than the other, there are just times to dial up one and dial down the other, and vice-versa.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I know for my husband, practically the only time his guard is down is immediately "after" and thats when his sensitive side is out. I think that bedroom time serves two important purposes for him, as a physical release but definitely also as an emotional one.

[–]wub1234[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's a hard thing to explain, and probably something that you can't really ever understand without being male. But after you ejaculate, it's like your lifeforce is drained out of you, in a way. You become a softer version of yourself, and the more sensitive and reciprocal parts of your character emerge. There is a sequence in the novel of Trainspotting that brilliantly depicts this.

I'm not sure if you've ever heard of this, but there has often been this idea that you shouldn't have sex the night before a big sporting event. The idea is that if you ejaculate then you let out all of your aggression, in a way, whereas if you don't then your aggression and drive is bottled up inside. That sounds preposterous, but I personally think there is some truth in it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That seems like a reasonable theory to me, about the aggression.

[–]mabeol0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, this was affirming on a lot of levels! He is, mostly definitely, a giant cat.

What's interesting is that my SO's cuddle affinity is largely separate from sex. When I go over to his place, he'll say, "Let's sit on the couch for a little bit," and within 60 seconds he's got me completely horizontal and wrapped up in this boa constrictor snuggle burrito. He almost never uses this to initiate sex - he seems to want the closeness. I suspect it helps him unwind from his day. Whatever the reason, I absolutely love it and am so happy to accommodate :)

[–]Spazzy190 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL that's me too! Closeness is very important to me outside of even just sex. Physical touch is my primary love language. My bf is happy to oblige my need thankfully!

[–]llem200 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not trying to play Devil's Advocate or anything here, I do try to follow RPW guidelines as much as I can and I have read (and mostly agreed with) 'The Surrendered Wife'.

However, I feel as though all of these points are applicable to both sexes, not just women. I expect my husband to respect me, love me, and listen to me as much as I do for him.

1 - as I said, I expect my husband to respect me and my opinions as well I respect him. Now, if we are discussing something that needs doing in the house, and we have differing opinions, I do defer to his choice. Likewise, if we have differing opinions on something related to our dogs, he generally differs to my opinion simply because I have more experience and knowledge.

2 - I concede that generally speaking, most guys will have their own interests. But I have dated guys in the past who want to involve themselves with everyone of my interests. This is not OK. Showing interest in my hobbies, and becoming overwhelmingly involved are 2 very different things. So again, this goes both ways.

3 and 4 - same ideas, I need my husband to listen to what I am saying when I need him to. I think this boils down to respect again. As does showing interest in their hobbies; when my husband is explaining the story of a new book that he has recently gotten into, I love to listen to him! I also appreciate the fact that he does the same for me, we get enjoyment from the other's enjoyment.

5- Guys, I like to see a man dressed up in a nice outfit sometimes too.

6- This is obvious.

7- For me right now, this is very important as I am 7 1/2 mths pregnant and my hormones fluctuate quicker than I can keep up. As I am having trouble keeping them under control sometimes, it is very important that my husband also understands that sometimes I need to just go away and cool off sometimes. So far it has usually ended with me apologising and we both move on very quickly - I just that time for my logic part of my brain to kick in and overcome my hormones! We also need time outs.

8 through 11 I feel are also obvious. Don't forget that we need that intimacy sometimes. Men can flirt as well. And don't forget the foreplay people - a lot of guys do!

12- OK, I concede that, generally speaking, it's mostly the men that initiate sex - but not in every case.

13- This is the only one that might need changing a little bit for the opposite sex, men don't generally play games. We do however need to know what you're thinking sometimes. If you feel as though I am spending too much time talking about the upcoming baby, and neglecting your needs a little bit then tell me! (Obviously I use this as an example as it has come up in my own relationship recently).

14 and 15 - again, both I think are obvious for the opposite sex.

Let me know if you disagree or agree with any and/or all of these!

[–]rpwthrowaway20161 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't disagree that men should do these things too, but I think the idea is that giving such advice to women, even though it is valid, would be considered unfeminist or overly traditional; such sentiment has already been expressed in the PPD thread.

[–]llem202 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, which is something that I simply do not understand. I consider myself somewhat feminist and yet I expect all of these points to go both ways. How can you expect to have limitation and expectations for men when you can't listen to similar things from the other way round?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"feminism" has unfair demands and hypocritical desires while facading as equality. To truly want equality, you would expect the same things from both sexes. Even the name feminism suggests female > male.

As you said, how can you not expect expectations to go both ways in a relationship? I think all of us on this sub quite agree yet the current state of affairs in society suggest that is not how we live. Today's feminism believes females are owed and entitled everything because of their gender. First wave feminism didn't really believe that. Somewhere along the way the idea was perverted.

[–]wub1234[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the reply. I absolutely agree that most of these should be reciprocated. If anything, men are always going to have to give more than they get back. It's not entirely fair, but we're supposed to be the leaders and we're supposed to seduce and satisfy the woman, so it's perfectly natural that we have to provide more than she does. That's just the way it is.

However, I think in contemporary relationships, often the man is doing all of the giving and the woman is doing all of the taking, and that's wrong. It's not good for either party. And there is, I believe, a stereotype that men are simple creatures with minimal requirements and needs. And that we're not emotional. And that is crap.

It doesn't help when guys (it's pure bravado, in my opinion) say things like "all a woman needs to do is cook for me and bend over backwards occasionally". It just reinforces a negative stereotype. I don't know if you get men's magazines like Loaded and FHM in the States, I think there is a US version of FHM, but I always used to find it hugely patronising that they thought "I'm a man, so I'm only interested in booze and cars and birds (English slang) and football". Well, I like two of those things, but you can't put me in such a convenient little box. I'm a bit more complex and have broader interests than that.

I think all of your comments are fair. I think that the hobbies one is interesting because we all need to share things with our partner, but we all need space. I really do because I'm an introvert and I need non-social time to recharge my batteries. Getting the right balance can be tricky.

[–]Sarstan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man here. Fascinated about this group and would be happy to throw in my personal interest in each of these.
1.) Yes. Of course. I don't need to be thanked or anything, but just understand sometimes my position has certain expectations of me as a man that aren't always easy to handle.
2.) Yes. I always hated when people said you have to share the same interests. I would be completely turned off by a woman who likes working on cars or doing carpentry like me. But I find things like knowing how to knit and a passion for makeup to be good examples of charming traits. Not to say that interests have to bleed femininity.
3.) Same idea as 1.
4.) Yes. I love simulation racing. I don't care if it means nothing to you or you don't understand what camber, toe, oversteer, apex, or redline means. But it'd make me thrilled to have you want to watch a little bit of me racing. Unless I'm doing poorly. I aim to impress you after all.
5.) For me, yes. But I've met a lot of men who don't. If I had my way, I'd want a woman who wore only dresses and skirts. But I know guys who like the jersey and jeans look. Either way, while I think some men don't like it, getting dolled up makes me very happy.
6.) I think that's close to 4. Then again I think everyone likes that.
7.) Yeah. I'm not sure about tired because I still like the same things, but if I'm stressed or angry about something, I tend to distance myself and clam up. Being supportive and showing you want to help sometimes is nice, but other times I need to be alone and get myself sorted out. Which is probably unfair to guess which one is the better route in how to handle me.
8.) I do like that. Plays on a few previous mentions, but I do want to hear about what you like to do, some part of it that you really like, or just gush about your passions. It's truly beautiful to watch a woman talk about what she loves.
9.) Yes. I'm not shy about the fact that I CRAVE cuddling and affection. Yes, I love sex, but it's not as good without the loving touches. And those touches can do just as well on their own. Of course, it will often times lead to sex.
10.) I think this is one of the parts that hurt me the most with my ex wife. I got to see her exchanges with the other man she left me for. I wish she had talked to me that way at some point, but flirting wasn't too common and it was pretty much null near the end of our relationship. Being a flirt never gets old.
11.) Of course! I never knew sex could be so fun until I met a girl that would push back against me or would put on a show in making herself available to me. I can understand wanting a man to be aggressive and in control in the bedroom, but it takes two to tango. Even if I've got you tied down, some back talk can really pull out primal desires to put you in your place.
12.) Please do. Initiating can remind a man that you want him. Which as much as we try not to show it, being wanted by the woman we love is extremely pivotal to much of our self-confidence in the relationship.
13.) I've learned to not even play this game anymore. If you say nothing is wrong, even in a huff, I'm going to shrug my shoulders and move on with my day. I'm not in high school anymore, and god forbid this is normal in college. I need a woman who can communicate clearly. I want to leave the guessing games on my investing strategy.
14.) It might sound shallow, but this is really important. Beyond losing your figure, your health goes too and along with that, so will your mood, sex drive, and overall energy. And then it just snowballs from there.
15.) First off, Cosmo is insane. From what little I've read, I've always wondered if there really are women that are that ridiculous in the world or not (and of course I'll find one every now and then). No, don't stick your finger in my butt as a sexual surprise. No, don't assume I'm cheating and go fuck our neighbor because I took ten minutes to reply to your text. No, don't go kicking a man in the balls because you're mad. I'll make sure to press charges at the very least.
But yes, be you. You're shy. You're awkward. You don't know what to say in a conversation sometimes. You have this thing where you stat putting your hair in your mouth. You laugh at inappropriate times because you're nervous. Please, keep being you. These little things are so incredibly attractive and it kills me when I meet a woman who talks about them like she's utter filth.

To be fair though, I've got a nature where I want a housewife and the traditional household and all. I'm not sure how many men share the same interests.

[–]SeemedGood0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Man here:

FWIW the thing I want most from the woman with whom I would care to have a relationship is that she be a good partner for the spiritual growth that I believe to be our true mission in life. All the things we "do" are the material with which we can forge that growth and development and the woman with whom you may choose to forge a life and do that work is your key partner. That being said, the things I desire in that key partner are as follows:

Qualities that I desire in my partner:

• Kindness to others

• Thoughtfulness in all things

• Curiosity about life

What I desire from my partner in a relationship:

• That she be completely honest with herself and have integrity with that honesty, particularly with regard to her feelings for me and her participation in our relationship

• That she desire me both sexually and spiritually as I am, in preference to other men, for better & worse, richer & poorer, in sickness & in health

I call this my "No Complaints" list. If the woman in question fits these criteria everything else will work itself out. The last one is a Duesey, it's basically a no hypergamy desire and requires a woman who is conscious enough to know and understand her natural programming and both conscious enough and willing to reprogram herself. Without that though LTRs and marriage seem pointless to me. If I'm constantly going to be a participant in a hypergamy competition, I'd much rather do so as a single man. On the flip side, I'm totally willing to do my own reprogramming and remain completely attracted to my spiritual partner as she "ages out."

Which brings me to physical attraction and my "No Complaints" list. Yes physical attraction is vitally important, but for me the extent to which women meet the qualities on my list shapes my view of their physical attractiveness massively. A 10 who is rude and unkind, thoughtless or dull drops to a 5 in my book and instantaneously becomes physically unattractive to me. Now if a 6 turned out to be 9, I don't mind, I don't mind. I find that for the women I end up most physically attracted to, that attraction develops intensely over time as I observe them demonstrate kindness, thoughtfulness, and curiosity in their lives. Yes there are hard limits, but for me there's a huge amount of flexibility to those limits and variability within them based on a woman's internal qualities.

Would be interested to hear what the women think.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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