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Approaching Men: the Art of the Bad Excuse.

November 2, 2017

Someone asked me in PM for advice on how to attract, not just "men", but particular men she desires, once she's seen them.

This leads us to an area where many modern single girls are particular weak: the approach.

Obviously, approaching a man allows you to make something happen. But many women's immediate reaction to the very idea is "I do not want to approach men." There are a number of reasons for this, some good, some bad, which tend to boil down to this list:

  • I don't want to look so starved for male attention that I have to chase men.
  • I don't want to look like a slut.
  • Men don't like to be approached. They want to do it... right?
  • I don't want a man who isn't bold enough to make the first move.
  • My ego requires that men do all the work.
  • It's men's natural role to approach, not mine.
  • Approaching is scary.
  • Uh... I don't know how.

Most, if not all of these are based on single misconception.

Approaching or making advances doesn't just mean making a male-style overt pass.

It means any way of starting an interaction that can lead to something.

When a man approaches a woman, the effective way to do that demonstrates masculine virtues: courage, decisiveness, assertiveness, leadership skills, and so forth.

When a woman hears: "You can approach men, go ahead! It's fine! Men like it!", she often thinks of that particular process and either cringes in horror at the thought of acting like that, or naively forges ahead, and chats up dudes as if she were one... at which point they eye her as one would a crazy person or a rabid dog, and start edging away.

There are feminine ways to begin an interaction.

The first tier of this is signalling willingness to be approached. This is mostly done with eye contact, and many women already understand it.

Make eye contact deliberately. Hold for a few seconds. Smile. Break eye contact by dropping the eyes down, not looking away. Repeat. Turn toward him, displaying open body posture. Laugh at lot. Play with your hair.

... this isn't hard stuff. Most every girl knows how to do this.

The rarer skill, which we'll focus on here, is being able to actually open the conversation. There are several elements here:

  • You must fabricate an excuse to talk to him.
  • This excuse must be an excuse, and not your overt reason.
  • This excuse must not be too good... in fact, it should be pretty bad.
  • You must continue to fabricate bad excuses to give flirtation time to happen.

The point here is that you are using indirect speech.

He must be aware of your real intent, and he must think that it is about him in particular, not that any man will do, or that you want attention.

If you use an overt reason ("I find you attractive") rather than an excuse ("Can you help me with this homework problem?"), then you have broken the delicate surface tension between "Looks like she's really into me", and "This is weird, why is she acting weird? Is she crazy?". Then you look desperate, or like a slut, or neurotic, or whatever explanation he comes up with for your bizarre behaviour.

However, if your excuse is too good, then he either believes it, or is unsure whether or not it is an excuse. Both are bad. If he believes it, he will focus on the ostensible "purpose" of the interaction, miss any attempts at flirtation you make, and probably leave when the fake task is accomplished. If, for example, he really believes that you just need help with that one homework problem, he'll either focus on math, and leave when you seem to get it, or he'll decline (because he's not your unpaid tutor, and has things to do).

Where most women err here is excuse too subtle. They are often afraid of being too blatant or obvious, and not always aware that men do not speak to each other is subtleties.

There is no such thing as an excuse that's too bad, so long as it is an excuse and not an actual direct statement that you want to continue talking to him because you find him attractive. Remember that he's supposed to see through it, and that's its fine if others see through it as well. This can't be stressed enough. Men often miss what you think of as glaringly obvious, because men do not typically talk to each other that way. If it feels about right, it's too subtle. If it feels embarrassingly obvious, it's probably about right.

Once the conversation begins, and your bad excuses allow it to continue, flirtation has time to happen. If logistics intervene, a bad excuse can be made to resume contact in the future.

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Post Information
Title Approaching Men: the Art of the Bad Excuse.
Author Whisper
Upvotes 142
Comments 27
Date November 2, 2017 5:43 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link
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[–]lilaclemons 43 points44 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I approached my boyfriend, it weirds some of my RP friends out, but he's forever thankful I did, because he wasn't looking to meet anyone sex/commitment wise while he was in school. He likes to say "You prevented me from missing the best opportunity of my life" melts my heart. I think it's partially because I set my sights on him and locked on.

Pretty much exactly this way, eye-contact, excuse to talk to him (we were in a college together and the prof told us to pick a partner "someone we've never met before" I snaked over beside him pretty quickly and thankfully his best friend suggested me (s/o to that amazing guy also)).

Since he was from out of town, staying in residence and it was my hometown I offered to show him around the city, he accepted, I got very flirty, kissed him and the rest is history.

Some people think by approaching this way you'd either come off as dumb or you'd attract a beta male but from my experience that's not true.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

All the comments are hating on this advice, but tbh, I'm SURE this would have worked with my husband. I guess to each their own, but I think it could be done without coming accross like a ditzy girl (as someone expressed) or being outside of your personality. It seems mostly like asking a guy for help with something that you only sort of but not really need help with so he knows you want to spend time with him.

[–]loneliness-inc 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you. OP wrote a great post!

It reminds me of the time when I used to watch Robert Irvine's cooking/restaurant shows. Short version of the long story is that he met his wife while teaching a bunch of people how to cut lettuce or something like that. She kept asking him for more guidance and was practically curling herself into him as he gave her cooking instruction. She seemed to have been doing exactly what op describes.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

done without coming accross like a ditzy girl

From OP:

Turn toward him, displaying open body posture. Laugh at lot. Play with your hair.

The only mental image I'm getting is someone doing a streetwalker stance, going "eheh heheh hehe haha" while twirling her hair.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I consider all of that pretty much basic flirting and I promise I'm not a ditz. These are just tactics that can be implemented according to the woman's personality. Honestly, they are natural reactions when you are interested in someone.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I promise I'm not a ditz

As someone who follows you around to upvote your posts, I know :p And I wasn't calling you one. I'm just saying OP's post reads like a Cosmo article.

Honestly, they are natural reactions when you are interested in someone.

I don't doubt it, but I also don't think it's particularly good advice to say that's the best way to attract the attention of a guy most women would consider a good catch, because most women behave that way around him.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I also don't think it's particularly good advice to say that's the best way to attract the attention of a guy most women would consider a good catch

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree :-) . For me, when I was talking about this post with my guy his eyes lit up, so I'm looking at it from the perspective that I think I have a high value man and that sort of thing works with him. If you think you have a high value man and it wouldn't work for him - then it's just a matter of YMMV.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's "high value man", and there's "a man who has too many options because every woman's eyes light up when he walks in the room".

What I meant by "most women would consider a good catch" is someone who is a natural charmer, who is often perceived as "a good catch", which gives him plenty of options when it comes to women. I'm just referring to perceived value, and the need to compete with other women to catch his attention, because I'm assuming this "approaching" advice is between strangers.

Popular guys are often the most jaded and cynical (in my experience :p) about women, and if they're looking for a serious relationship, they do not respond to basic flirting because they've seen it too many times and are looking for something "more".

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The main takeaway is men will only slightly pick up on what we feel is glaringly obvious. You can drop hints and make it clear you're available, and he will get confidence to step up. You can say you would accept a date. And you might feel like you acted desperate while he will not see it that way at all.

This is a good way to get those decent (not "nice") guys who are slightly too well mannered to do a super direct approach.

[–]Ezaar 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for posting a look into language into the subject.

[–]lunatic_in_the_hall 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can tell that this is good advice in theory, but I feel like some of my insecurities would get in the way. I hate the idea of making a silly excuse to talk to a guy and make myself look stupid by doing so. I'm not a fan of "putting myself down", so to speak, to get attention. Am I interpreting this the wrong way? Is there a way to get past this?

[–]tab_log 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Make the desire to the possibility stronger than the given state that you're in.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 18 points19 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

For first impressions, when the goal is a romantic relationship, it's also very important to not censor the real you just to present yourself as some ditzy damsel, if you're not one.

If this "bad excuse" approach/strategy isn't aligned with a woman's actual personality, she's unlikely to attract a man who is compatible with her, even if it works to attract the generic guy.

Making bad excuses to get time alone with a man who gets turned off by people imposing on their time, will never lead to flirtation, because he's already turned off.

You can display independence and be overt while remaining feminine.

Example strategy 1: compliment him, a lot :p Instead of "you're very attractive", you could go full "overt" by making a statement like: "You look like someone who has good tastes in coffee". This implies that you'd accept if he offered you coffee, but lets him decide if he wants to.

Example strategy 2: instead of asking him to help you do something (which suggests entitlement, unless he's already very attracted to you), offer to help him with extremely trivial things. The key word is "offer". Don't push if he seems reluctant :P Trivial reminders is an easy excuse to get his number. Trivial favors like picking up his drink (not buying him a drink) since you're supposedly headed towards where said drink is. Important: don't play "mommy" by fussing over him or doing anything a mother would do.

The offer has to be trivial, and not something time-consuming, because you're not submitting yourself to him. You're flirting, so keep it low commitment, with low expectations.

Example strategy 3: tell him your favorite joke. A compatible sense of humor would imply good relationship compatibility.

Vet him, even as you flirt.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I think a lot of men would miss the coffee hint.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Those who would miss it are those who aren't coffee enthusiasts, which is my way of vetting such people out.

I think I should've started my post talking about using the flirting process to vet, instead of saying that as my closing statement.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol nice

[–]Sapphire_Jizz 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree with Rivkariver, these examples are too subtle and a bit awkward. Example 1 comes across as a sort of awkward compliment, even more so if you deliver it with a flirty tone because there's nothing really romantic about being associated with good coffee. Honestly, if a girl said this to me I would think she was teasing me or joking around (and not in a flirty way, more of a shit-testy way).

Example 2 is also a bit awkward... if I'm understanding you correctly you mean something like being at a bar with a guy and you offer to grab him water or his drink when you go to pick up yours (which you didn't pay for). Sure this is a kind little gesture but I don't think there are many universes where a guy will think "wow she grabbed a water glass for me! = she's super interested and I should ask her out!" I don't really see the "sexiness" angle here. Ultimately guys would rather grab their own drink and just have good company with a girl. Good conversation will allow you to convey interest a thousand times better than running around and being a busy-body on his behalf.

Example 3 is fantastic. Most guys love girls with a good sense of humor, because -- spoilers -- a lot of girls don't have one because they never needed to be witty or clever to succeed in life. A good sense of humor will go a LONG way toward distinguishing you from other girls. Bad excuses tie into this. A good "bad" excuse conveys a lot of social acumen and can be super charming. They can also be hilarious. It's the right balance of vulnerability and assertiveness; you're being vulnerable by putting yourself out there and revealing your hand (in an indirect way of course), but you're also showing that you aren't too timid to be an intelligent social creature who can lobby for her own desires.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

a bit awkward

there's nothing really romantic

That's me, guilty as charged :p I'm awkward even when trying to express my thoughts in text, despite the luxury of backspacing and edits!

Overall, what I was trying to say is: vet from the get-go (from the initial flirting onwards), to get someone who's actually compatible, instead of only finding out the fact sometime later.

My clumsily-expressed examples were only intended to support my claim of: "You can display independence and be overt while remaining feminine." You can vet-n-flirt in other ways, depending on what your relationship priorities are.

you mean something like being at a bar

Sorry, I meant at a social gathering like at a wedding, or a corporate christmas party, where food and drinks are freely available, but sometimes they are hosted at a hotel bar/restaurant/pub, where you could buy specific drinks.

Sure this is a kind little gesture but I don't think there are many universes where a guy will think "wow she grabbed a water glass for me! = she's super interested and I should ask her out!"

Most women expect men to take the initiative to "provide" (favors, etc), to make a good first impression.

It makes you stand out when you demonstrate a generous and thoughtful nature. This also indirectly vets a guy to see if he's looking for a serious relationship. A guy looking for a quick lay usually gets over-confident that you'd submit to his every wish, if you demonstrate generosity early on.

[–]maryofscotts 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"it's been awhile, it would be nice to catch up over coffee" = will be trying this one soon!

[–]Muriana_of 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is gold.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Disagreement is fine, but you must do so in a thoughtful and detailed manner.

Your comment has been removed as it adds nothing to the conversation.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Be polite or be quiet.

I explained why the comment was removed so that you can avoid this situation in the future.

Read the sidebar, wiki, and this post before commenting here again.

Thank you.

[–]Banincoming 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is how the game is played.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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