~ archived since 2018 ~

Assuming men are stupid.

February 18, 2018

While the goal of girl game is ultimately to get better treatment from men, the practice of it must consist of something more than naively grabbing for what you want in the most obvious fashion possible.

As /u/durtyknees so aptly put it:

I've always found it ironic that women who aim for "high quality" men underestimate the mental capacity of such men, as if outstanding intellect, exceptional empathy, and excellent social skills are somehow not traits found in "high quality" men

--- I mean, this is the impression I get from reading posts in RP communities, and I always scratch my head about it.

To expand on this idea, it makes little sense to date a man who joined the Army and made it through Ranger School and then ask RPW about how best to break this man's will with an ultimatum.

Or to date a man who carefully practiced seduction, how to read women, and how to make himself attractive to them, then ask RPW about how to play little games to make him jealous... because you saw that in a movie once.

Or to date a man who got himself a law degree, passed the bar exam, learned through experience how to play a jury like a fiddle, then ask RPW how to put off his sexual advances while feigning passion.

If you do not want a stupid, weak-willed, or oblivious man, do not employ tactics that require these qualities in a man.

This is why high-quality girl game does not consist of adversarial tactics. Not because these tactics never work, but because the kind of man you can defeat in a game of chicken is not the sort of man you want to spend the rest of your life with. "The Rules" may be an excellent manual for managing your beta orbiters, but that's all it is.

Since a woman's goal is to remain with the man she practicing game on, any means of getting her way that makes her man unhappy with the result, will damage the relationship even if it works. Girl game does not contain the same level of option to "next" men, so it must seek a win-win situation.

An excellent rule of thumb for this is if explaining your tactic to him as you perform it would make it not work... it's not a good idea to try it at all.

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Post Information
Title Assuming men are stupid.
Author Whisper
Upvotes 88
Comments 31
Date February 18, 2018 10:16 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/assuming-men-are-stupid.2766
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/7yhudd/assuming_men_are_stupid/
Red Pill terms in post

[–]MyUserNamesIsTaken_1 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

It's funny because I never found any men who are at the top, and who stayed there for a long time, to not have in addition to their skills good human qualities like integrity. So, all these girl tactics only work on the average chump, because a real man knows what he wants and think in the long term. Tactics only give short term results. For example, you might make your man jealous by creating some drama with another guy. Your man might come to you and do what you want in the moment... but in his head his perception of you has changed, he just started seeing you as less loyal. That's a big cost.

[–]polakfury11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

he just started seeing you as less loyal. That's a big cost.

Thats actually the ultimate cost. Most Alphas would not even bother. She wants to work at Arbys but wants a CEO job at the side still. doesnt work that way.

[–]NorrisChuck6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I don't think men are stupid that's just feminism talking. I think they are simple in a straight forward way and have an uncanny ability to say what I want to say in 10 words or less. My father always told me if you have to play games to get what you want you weren't worth giving it to in the first place. I also find the comments about beta orbiters kinda overplayed on TRP I'm average looking on a good day I have men that are friendly to me but I don't have 600 fb likes 9000 Instagram followers. I get a door opened for me on occasion but I think that's because I'm getting old lol. I think alot of guys on male trp blow beta orbiter stuff out of proportion. Maybe a perfect 10 gets that treatment. I tried online dating once and got about 30 messages a day they were all from ugly or unemployed men maybe your basing your info on places you presume women get certain special treatment but I should clarify only attractive women get special treatment.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't think men are stupid that's just feminism talking.

I think that (some) woman have long believed that men are easily manipulated. Maybe this is because we grew up in a culture where feminism is pervasive and this idea is in the zeitgeist.

However, I suspect that it has more to do with the differences between the genders when we are younger. Can we agree that many a young (teenage) boy will do pretty much anything for a girl he thinks might have sex with him. And (some) women learn this early and it colors their views of men.

Not every woman has a man like your father. My father certainly never taught me not to play games. You are lucky in this respect. It probably took you a lot less time to learn to be a woman rather than a foolish girl.

Maybe a perfect 10 gets that treatment.

As the people said below, it's not difficult to get this treatment and it doesn't require being a perfect 10. Now, you and I are in our 30s so it's not really an issue anymore. We're the ones who have to go out and do the work to find the men if we wanted them. However, in our teens and 20s. It takes giving the right amount of attention to the right (or wrong as the case may be) men. If you don't run into single hungry men on the regular, then you won't have the opportunity for beta orbiters. It is most likely to happen in high school and college when you are surrounded by your peers. It's not a nice way to behave but again, not all women are taught better.

And that is why what Whisper is saying is necessary. This stuff happens. Girls think that flirting is making men jealous, or keeping them on a leash as a back up plan or any other number of useless tactics that might work when they are young and the boys are similarly young. Or they may not work but the similarly young boys don't care.

To grow up and find men, we need to learn how terrible and ineffective these tactics are. If we don't, we will end up with boys, not men.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sounds like too much work to me but I wasn't born here so my level of understandning of "the game" women play here isn't that great. If I'm not dating or married to you I don't give two fucks for your attention unless we're like minded girlfriends then I'll enjoy some tea. I do appreciate whsiper posting this though I do think through my eyes and via how I see life beta orbiters are well overplayed they exist but in my abodes in the US men move on fast why chat or chase a girl who shows no interest in you or reciprocates nothing? Maybe in the Northeast they've wisened up. I heard two coworkers today say something he'd been talking to a girl for a few days they went out twice both times he tried to escalate and he got shot down. When asked if he was going out with her again he said nah she's playing games fuck that. Whisper is right guys aren't stupid. And that's one of thousand instances I've witnessed or heard about. The beta orbiter nonsense may he a big deal elsewhere I don't see it. I for one have never played games. My husband is supremely attractive I told him so we dated he wanted me so he had me. I never made him wait because I knew he wanted to stay. I'm always blunt with him which is why he respects me as his wife and he always knows I'm telling the truth. That's common sense to me whisper is right it should be for other women too. Reward honesty with honesty.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like too much work to me but I wasn't born here so my level of understanding of "the game" women play here isn't that great.

I don't disagree with this, but again, we are married women in our 30s. My point to you is that this sort of behavior occurs mostly when you are young. Young women like the attention and young men will go through the ringer for a chance at sex.

how I see life beta orbiters are well overplayed

It doesn't surprise me that you don't see a lot of this behavior. Men are logical. I'd say some of these... let's call it toxic girl games (TGG)... these TGGs work on teenagers nearly all the time. Teenage boys are easy. Then slowly they start to grow up and wise up. By the time they are in their late 30s, I'd guess that nearly all of them have gotten wise to and see these TGGs for what they are. This is important because a lot of the women here are in their 20s. At that stage, the better men will have gotten wise to the games but the TGG probably still works on some that haven't quite matured yet. We don't want to give advice to women that these TGGs work on men, not because it will not work 100% of the time, rather because it will not get them the men they want

Maybe in the Northeast they've wisened up.

I was spending time on 12th Street before they put up the rainbow street signs and Woody's was the first club I ever went to (lots o gay friends). So no, it's not the Northeast. It's your age and the age of the men around you that is causing you to know more men that are not putting up with these behaviors from women.

I for one have never played games.

And that is good. But you have to understand the games that women play in order to give them advice about how to do better. If you don't have experience in a certain area, then you must listen to what others tell you exists so that you can understand where the younger women here are coming from and advise them accordingly.

[–]markdumte7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you started to put some effort in your social media presence you would be surprised. Go check the amount of Twich girls that make a living by being decently looking (nothing spectacular) and nice on screen. The amount of views and donations they receive is mind blowing. There is a lot of lonely and thirsty men out there that can not figure out how to straighten their life so they default to extreme online beta behaviour.

And you have to remember that women have a bias against weak men. You don't really see them as real men and tend to filter them out. But they are out there, lots and lots of them.

I understand you can not be bothered, but if you put the effort you'd be surprised about the amount of guys that orbit women.

[–]ThePantsThief8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This. The thing is that any decent looking girl has the potential to have tons of orbiters / followers. If you shy away from advertising yourself, obviously you won't have as many as you could.

As an example, if you post a nude on Reddit and ink your Instagram or snapchat, you'll get 50+ new followers in ~12 hours.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes emphasis on decent looking. Most women are average looking at best and life may be moderately biased towards them in some regard but not all of us have hordes of orbiters. Not to mention not all of us want beta orbiters if I find you unattractive I don't want you pestering me constantly I make my own money I don't need a free dinner or attention from men IDGAF about. Your right attention whores and sluts can with effort Garner plenty of attention. But as I said most women are average and have normal goals so are most men. Beta orbiter bs is way overplayed I'm sure quite a few women here are similar to me. And millions are off Reddit they make up the majority of normal non millennial women. By your logic if I slut myself up and talk about sucking a mean dick and try a little harder I can have all the unwarranted sexual attention I want. Any woman can do that. They're called whores for a reason too. Doesn't mean they're normal lol. Stop comparing broken women and awalt examples to the hard working worthwhile ones here. I could do alot of awalt shit like male trp says too bad I'm a hypergamous beast and married to an amateur physique competetor with the face of Dane dehaan. I truly can't be bothered to do better then the best I can do.

[–]markdumte1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We were not implying anything in regards of the amount of women that like to have orbiters. If you read again you'll see we are just pointing out that orbiters exist and there are a lot more than you would expect. If you wanted you probably could get them to orbit you. That's the point, but I completely understand why you would find it annoying.

And some of them are high IQ guys. Orbiting is not a problem of intelligence but of desperation. Desperation can short circuit a person's brain.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was stating not all women are interested in having them it came off as men coming into a women's sub telling us if we try hard enough we can have plenty of orbiters. We all know orbiters exist they just aren't as numerous as male trp plays it off to be and they tend to orbit higher quality women. The ladies here aren't here to swap Instagram handles and trade secrets to an attention whore lifestyle. Guys are coming on here pretty much trying to convince women who don't want unwanted attention "if you try hard enough you too can have your very own orbiters" it's like your trying to justify all women are awalt examples because your mind can't fathom good ones do exist and they're on the sub next door. No interest in being orbited. Trp isnt 100% gospel maybe you dislike millennial women but most average women don't have droves of followers.

[–]Rick_OShay12 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

if you have to play games to get what you want you weren't worth giving it to in the first place.

Sadly, I receive nothing but neglect or hatred because I refuse to play games; because I prefer to be brutally honest.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rick_OShay1-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So, by that quote, a lynch mob is righteous, and their victim is the asshole. Thanks.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you are missing the point. The only person you can expect to change is yourself. If you have the same experience again and again, you should consider your own behavior and what you are doing to contribute to that experience.

Most people, men and women, who fall back on "I'm just telling the truth" "I'm just honest" "People can't handle my honesty" or any version of that are using it to justify being jerks.

Bitching on the women's sub about how mean women are to you is pretty weak IMO. TRP was created for men like you. The men will give you the swift kick in the ass that you need and push you to improve yourself. I am of the opinion that certain men post here to complain about women because they can't handle playing with the big boys and think that us women will be kinder to them.

[–]Rick_OShay1 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, I've tried being "the nice, optimistic guy", but that gets me friend-zoned. I'm either hated as a brutally-honest cynic, or I get friend-zoned as a nice guy. WTH am I supposed to do?

"Just be yourself" is clearly non-helpful.

I came here to seek some answers, as I am fed up with the defeatist rhetoric of the MGTOW, and the how-to-be-promiscuous advice on Red Pill men's sites.

I am hoping to find a wife, not a "playmate", or an f-buddy.

Where can I go for answers to my questions?

[–]CrazyHorseInvincibleModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where can I go for answers to my questions?

Not here.

This is the women's group. It's focused on their goals.

I am hoping to find a wife, not a "playmate", or an f-buddy.

This is a bad idea. In order to find wife material, you must not be looking for it.

Get yourself to askTRP.

Now I'm going to kick you out of here before you damage yourself.

[–]Kiddingyoself9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If he's a good man, and you're a good match, the best tactic would be to explain to him what you'd like to accomplish, and ask him what he thinks the best tactic would be. The two of you will come up with something that will work wonderfully, without being disrespectful to either.

[–]polakfury2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Isnt that kinda common sense though? Cooperation > competition

[–]chim_city0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

we all can dream, don't we!

[–]Kiddingyoself0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't seem to be common. There's a lot of people who have never understood, or never experienced, that a couple should be on the same team. That relationships are win/lose, and the better schemer will win. For example, most relationship questions could helpfully be answered with "Copy & paste this to a message to you SO."

It's sad and, like many things people accept today, meant to give family no chance.

I would agree that it is obvious, and should be common sense.

[–]Honey_Mommy_823 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a big problem in the region I live in. Many of my friends assume their man is dumb because they don't understand him. These are men that make 100k per year... By definition in the upper 10-20% of incomes in the area. They can't be as dumb as their wives backbite about them.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This might have to do something with being hopeful that the man knows better and behaves the way he does for a good reason. Women are more in those things agreeable, after all.

But it is a dangerous angle. There truly are men out there who are awake, strong, smart and open, and do not shy away from the thought of creating a family together.

I'm thinking, and I might be very wrong, that a lot of guys going around doing disks (or whatever you call them) and calling themselves "alfa" are only deluding themselves of being composed and competent.

I mean - why would a man waste his time and energy on women that clearly aren't working on themselves either?

For sex? Okay, I'll take it. But are you sure all men, sane and all, are obsessed with it?

I'm thinking (and again, might be wrong) - if you keep meeting people for the sake of finding the one compatible enough - the toughest game you should be playing is keeping it together and being honest (with the guys, and with yourself!).

And if the honest you gets rejected by a jacked rich guy - that's fine - that's a part of the vetting. If you remain honest yourself and detect that the otherwise nice and charming guy makes you feel insignificant and small (by the way he talks to you - I've noticed a lot of men turn on women as if they were their male competitors, lol - with aggression and violence!), or has something of a deal-breaker (if you've composed a list of such things) - remain honest and break it off.

[–]lonelylikegod 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Be “jacked” & “rich”.


[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. "Jacked" & "rich" are attractive to women and you cannot negotiate attraction. This is RP 101. It is why the first steps at TRP including lifting. This type of comment is why we ask men to be regulars at TRP before posting to RPW. It helps you learn not to state the obvious to a sub full of women.

We don't recommend most men casually post on RedPillWomen, because a lot of them aren't very good at it. You're always welcome to lurk and read, but if you're going to participate, your familiarity with the norms and values of this sub should be apparent when you post.

If you intend on posting here, you must be familiar with our sidebar, particularly the sections about male participation. Start with these: If you’re a guy and you’re here read this and Commitment or GTFO

[–]ReddJive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can’t dread an Alpha. Red Pill relationships have different rules but....so very similar.

[–]underinfluence89 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What ever happened to love ? If I have a roof over my head can go fishing enjoy nature and have somebody to enjoy iT with me Im happy I dont care if she is a lawyer or works at a grocery store . The first 2 things I look for is : is she kind hearted 2 does she treat animals good. I guess things Are allot differant Here in Holland

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We don't recommend most men casually post on RedPillWomen, because a lot of them aren't very good at it. You're always welcome to lurk and read, but if you're going to participate, your familiarity with the norms and values of this sub should be apparent when you post.

If you are asking the question "what about love" you need to go spend time on TRP before commenting on RPW. They will help you to understand this question.

[–]En-Zu0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why have rules been developed for managing betas. They are by definition a free resource.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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