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Celebrating Non-Toxic Masculinity

ImTheCaptainNow24
January 17, 2019
129 upvotes
/r/RedPillWomen

Hi all! There's been a lot of debate on my Facebook feed about toxic masculinity the past few days, especially after the debut of the Gillette commercial. It honestly makes me sad because the debate over whether "toxic masculinity" is shaming men or not is just distracting from the main issues that most people agree on, which are that bullying, sexual harassment, rape, and gun violence are problems, and we need to work together on preventing them.

​

With that in mind, I wanted to promote, in some small way, a conversation of positive masculinity - to make it clear to those who are offended by the term "toxic masculinity" that there are plenty of things about masculinity to celebrate, but also to contribute to a conversation about making our cultural definitions of masculinity more positive and healthy. My husband is a masculine man and a good man, and I want to share some of the things he can do/has done that are totally masculine and also totally positive!

​

  1. Make enough money to support us, such that when I announced I was going to quit my job and try freelancing last year, he didn't even bat an eye
  2. Fix our dishwasher
  3. Brew a kickass craft beer in our tiny kitchen
  4. Maintain our car
  5. Act as president of our housing association
  6. Carry me down 6 city blocks when my heels are hurting my feet
  7. Bench press my bodyweight and more
  8. Push a car out of a snow bank
  9. Lift a car out of a mud pit
  10. Defend someone who was being picked on by someone much stronger than him
  11. Defend someone in a fistfight
  12. Carry our grill up 3 flights of fire escape and then teach me how to operate it
  13. Fix a washing machine
  14. Change a bike tire or a car tire
  15. Build and fix a computer
  16. Grow a badass Viking beard
  17. Give a best man speech
  18. Be best friends with gay guys without feeling like it threatens his own sexuality
  19. Repair and maintain a vintage motorcycle
  20. Build a garden bed
  21. Shoot a gun (at a target or a pheasant, not a person)
  22. Register for the draft
  23. Rock a tux
  24. Plan for our retirement
  25. Chug a beer faster than anyone I've ever seen (alright, not sure how "nontoxic" that is, but I'm still pretty proud of it!)
  26. Drive stick shift
  27. Heat up the car in the winter when it's freezing and then come back to get me once it's warm
  28. Carry all my furniture up 3 flights of stairs...three times
  29. Rewire my parents' cable and internet
  30. Build a fire, pitch a tent, and cook a meal in the wilderness

I mostly just want to brag about my husband! But also hope this keeps us all a little grounded in the midst of the debate. Please feel free to add examples of how your Captain/Boyfriend/Husband is masculine in good, healthy ways!

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Post Information
Title Celebrating Non-Toxic Masculinity
Author ImTheCaptainNow24
Upvotes 129
Comments 62
Date January 17, 2019 5:37 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/celebrating-non-toxic-masculinity.196759
https://theredarchive.com/post/196759
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/ah08kh/celebrating_nontoxic_masculinity/
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Comments

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

This thread is intended to celebrate positive masculinity, it is not meant to debate the Gillette campaign or argue the use of the term 'toxic masculinity'. There are plenty of other threads on Reddit about those topics. If you aren't here to share and celebrate your partner's (friend's, family member's ...) positive masculine qualities then you should move along. Off topic comments will be removed.

[–]tuyguy84 points85 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I think men would be less upset about the attacks on toxic masculinity if healthy masculinity were celebrated equally.

[–]jtriangle 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

That and the completely nebulous definition of toxic masculinity. Most of the time it's just a general hate of masculinity in general and trying to frame things as though all/most masculinity is toxic.

It's really a valid grievance men have here and playing that game is the real toxicity here.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's because men know instinctively that toxic is just a cover for their hatred of masculinity itself. It's just not quite permissible - yet - to outright hate all masculinity. But that's the goal.

[–]lafindublonde18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is a step in the right direction. I adore men and I wish masculinity were more celebrated. Your dude sounds like a great dude.

[–]AgathaMysterie38 points39 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, I love this. All of it.

To me, positive masculinity is...

...when my husband works all day at the company that he’s building, comes home and plays with them/helps with dinner and bedtime, then when the rest of us are in bed, works on side projects or fixing up the house.

...when my husband brings his unique point of view to our conversations, no matter the topic. He always has insight and ideas that are different than mine.

...when my husband carries our two older kids upstairs in his arms, while I can barely handle our baby. 🙈

And SO much more. Men have, in general, some amazing traits/strengths!!

I do think there is such a thing as “toxic masculinity” (although I think a better term could be invented...), but there is just as equally such a thing as “toxic femininity”. Sigh.

[–]swirlio6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this whole hardheartedly. People should be judged for their individual character and not as a group.

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think if my heels were hurting my feet and my bf literally responded by carrying me for 6 blocks my heart would explode by the time we got to the 6th block. Not really contributing much here but you're hubby is definitely brag worthy (:

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

To be fair, this was in our dating days. I am old now and wear sensible footwear :-)

[–]ZegiknieEndorsed Contributor4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I, too, wear sensible footwear. Wisdom with old age comes.

[–]notanempath16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Wow sounds like you hit gold with your husband! Number 30 had me like “damnnnn”

I’m not familiar with the correlation between TRP and RPW but I gotta say, I’ve been casually lurking the asktrp sub for a few days and it seems to me that a lot of these things that you listed are things that a guy would be berated for doing on that sub.

Meanwhile I’d kill for a captain like this

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see what you mean about TRP, but most of the things listed here are equally (if not entirely) for his own benefit, with the exception of him carrying me around when my feet hurt, heating up the car, and moving my furniture (the first 2 times when we didn't live together). These were all occasional or in the past. The number of gourmet meals I've cooked him and times I've given head when I wasn't in the mood balance out the things he's done for me.

​

Also keep in mind I only listed his good qualities here lol.

[–]redpillschoolModerator Extraordinaire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Asktrp focuses on training guys not to trip over themselves to be subservient to women they pedestalize.

Doing nice things for your girlfriend or wife aren't against "trp rules for life". It's just that the kiddos on asktrp are really in the wrong mindset and need a reset.

[–]Bored_Schoolgirl7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can I just say I'm jealous?

[–]OilyB5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm jealous and I'm a dude! lol

[–]ragnarockette5 Stars5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Waiting in line for 2 and a half hours to get concert tickets to see my favorite band. Swoon.

[–]fosho_away7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I LOVE this post! It’s uplifting and both progressive and very RPW. Healthy masculinity is a gift 💝

[–]DrowninLake 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

All things masculine are great. There are no toxic masculine traits. None. Toxic behavior yes, but last I checked both sexes exibit these. Imo people who coined the term and those who push it's use are not the brightest bulbs. Opt out of the brainwashing.

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

I honestly don't appreciate this negativity on this thread, which was supposed to be about positivity. The people who coined the term are trying to discourage bullying, violence, and sexual abuse. In my book, that makes them pretty good people. The term is controversial, meaning there are a lot of people like you who think it's misguided and also a ton of other people who agree with it. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, that doesn't mean they are stupid or brainwashed.

[–]DrowninLake 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

I understand that you don't appreciate the negativity. I don't either, and that's why I spoke up. And I'll bet OP's man doesn't enjoy being spoken to or about as if there's something inherently wrong with him simply because he was born with a penis. If my son, who is almost one years old, grows to believe that he is somehow flawed because of his sex... I hold every person accountable for their contribution. And while the idea of honoring ones spouse or boyfriend is honorable, the whole notion that they should also hear about how they're great and not just how they shouldn't rape and pillage is laughable.

Are we talking about violence? Because the term would then be toxic humanity. Rape? Child abuse? Spousal abuse? Same deal... Those aren't behaviors soley relegated to the realm of masculinity. And I believe some, if not all of those behaviors, are born of traits belonging to both sexes. I've never wanted to rape anyone and I'm sure I'm not the only man who has felt sick inside after seeing someone suffer. There are female child abusers, murderers, rapists, etc., just watch your local news. So, from all I've seen, it's a term entirely without merit. It has no validity. It's empty and worse, it places blame at the feet of Good Men, all over the world, for doing things, or for having the inclination to do to things, that they would never do to anyone regardless of the circumstances.

I don't think anyone is stupid for their opinions, regardless of how misguided or backwards those opinions may be... However, being a proponent for an idea - popular or not - without really thinking critically about it... The idea itself is toxic.

Does someone want to suggest that aggression is a masculine trait? It's a trait seen by both sexes throughout the animal kingdom at large but okay, let's say men are More aggressive than women - which is true as a generalization I think. Do we really want to try to squelch that? Is Aggression "bad"? Aggression also gives rise to ambition and competitiveness... I don't think anyone's going to argue that those are bad things.

What it really comes down to is being a toxic Person. Toxic behavior which is committed by All is bad.

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude, I'm OP, and you made a bad bet. My husband and I have discussed the whole Gillette commercial and "toxic masculinity" in depth. It doesn't bother him in the slightest. It actually bothers me a lot more than it bothers him. He honestly has told me multiple times that he thinks guys who are offended by the term "toxic masculinity" are the ones who embody toxic masculinity (I think he's a bit biased about that, but that's what he has said). He's also really smart, and not especially young. Interestingly, we also took personality tests when we did premarital counseling, and we both scored very low for agreeableness, so I don't think that's a factor.

​

Other people have different opinions than you. Other people who are smart, mature, well-informed, independent, critical thinkers have different opinions than you.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is a post celebrating positive masculinity. Your lecture is unnecessary and unwanted and you missed the forest for the trees. Women will not have anything nice to say about men if you complain how we say it every time. Removed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well thanks for revising your comment. You didn't need to remove it.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If I did it, then it needed to be done. I am not the OP. I am a moderator. I removed it because it was off topic to the thread.

I will also take this opportunity to remind you that men are required to have an active presence on TRP before commenting on RPW.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I actively read... But, fair enough, thanks.

[–]JimiJons3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Registering for the draft is positive masculinity?

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well it's required, so it's not exactly like he's going above and beyond. But it's something American men have to do that women don't even think about. The one or two times that it's been brought up with my husband and my male friends, it has dawned on me that there's this hypothetical responsibility of having to sacrifice their lives for their country, and it's only asked of men.

[–]lindsbo2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This makes me love RPW. Though my hubby is a firefighter and would flip about #12 :)

Lucky you! What a catch

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know. It's a wooden fire escape too, lol. We take our own lives in our hands every summer weekend.

[–]International_Aioli4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My husband displayed an incredible act of masculinity for me recently, and this is the only place I can brag on him! :) I was out with a few of my girlfriends at dinner at a restaurant several blocks away from our home. It started snowing just as we got there and kept going through dinner and drinks. In our area business owner often do not shovel or salt the outside. When we came outside to walk home the front of the restaurant was cleared and salted. I didn't think much about it and walked home, and the sidewalk was clear all the way.

Ladies, he saw the snow, knew around the time I would be leaving, and shoveled the front of the restaurant and a path all the way back home for me. How unbelievable is that?

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's incredible

[–]surfdomx 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

I am a man. It was Gillette's tweet I hated, which said that being a boy meant doing bad things (in context, hurting girls). Calling me an abuser is like calling a woman a whore. Women with good values dont want to be called whores, and men who love the women in their lives dont want to be called abusers.

Although masculinity has both healthy and unhealthy forms, the term "toxic masculinity" makes "toxic" the default, normal form. Its like saying femininity is either slutty or a nonslutty. It is better to use "healthy" and "unhealthy" and best to use "strong" and "weak" to describe the masculine forms.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This isn't a discussion of the Gillette campaign. Off topic. Removed.

[–]surfdomx0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Gillette's tweet about toxic masculinity is part of their campaign.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The point of the post was for the women to celebrate their partners. Not for you to complain about the ad. The ad was ancillary to the discussion.

[–]surfdomx0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok. Good luck.

[–]pennynotrcutt2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you have a real winner there. Hold on tight to him!!

[–]Thisisforporn99999 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's nice that you guys are listing kind things that your boyfriends have done for you but almost none of these are masculine. Masculine is not synonymous with things men do that you like. Masculinity is self and goal oriented and everything listed are things he did for other people. I'm not knocking any of those things and it's great you have good boyfriends but that doesn't make it masculine. Examples of positive masculinity would be things like completing their goals and overcoming obstacles along the way, remaining strong in the face of adversity, making tough decisions that are right even though people might not like it, not being worn down by failure etc. These things can absolutely help other people but they are not specifically other-oriented like the ones you listed. If anything, you guys were mostly listing positive feminine traits in a man. The positive feminine is other-focused and is about adapting to and assisting the needs of others. Inversely, this also helps the self by giving an internal self of fulfillment but are not specifically self-oriented. What you guys listed is unhelpful to lost men because as long as they think masculinity is about serving others they will never be strong enough to support a spouse or family and will collapse under the expectations of others.

[–]ZegiknieEndorsed Contributor8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He is completing goals and overcoming obstacles. And a car stuck ib mud sounds like adversity and challenge to me.

The protective instinct he shows is masculine. Just because TRP work to suppress it, doesn't make it unmasculine.

There is nothing wrong with serving others if he chooses to. It is only when this serving is done indiscriminately, and taken for granted, that it is a problem. These are nice things done the way a woman couldn't, so they are masculine.

Masculinity isn't about serving others, but the part that serves others is a lot easier to spot and list.

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Since when is helping people not masculine? Using your strengths to help others is a fundamental trait of being human. Biologically speaking, humans would not be humans without our extremely strong instinct for altruism and social cooperation. The fact that TRP has somehow decided that helping others is "not a masculine trait" is just profoundly misguided. If you believe it, you are drinking WAY too much of the koolaid.

​

Also, most of the things I listed here are things my husband does for himself. 1-5, 7-9, 12-16, 18-21, 23 - 26, partially 28 (the third time was his furniture too), and 30 are all things he chooses to do because he cares about doing those things. They are not for the benefit of anyone else.

​

Your comment did not come off correctly, and I do think you are attacking the post.

[–]D0ngl31 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

As insane and science/fact denying the SJW mentality is, I think even the most stupid of SJWs would agree that at the most basic level, the difference between men and women is testosterone. I personally think it's more than that, but the SJW mindset will argue fallaciously and not in good faith about it, so grant all other differences to the SJWs for the sake of argument. Testosterone has an effect on the mind -- talk to anyone who has transitioned female to male about how testosterone made them feel and think.

In studies of what boosts natural testosterone production in "XY" people (i.e. "men"), scientists measured cardio, weight lifting, a number of other physical activities, and chopping wood. Guess which activity boosted testosterone the most? Chopping wood, as luck would have it.

Thus, #30 on her list is a masculine trait :)

[–]uBmaniac0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Testosterone has an effect on the mind -- talk to anyone who has transitioned female to male about how testosterone made them feel and think.

Thank you for your post.

Could you give more insight on this please.

[–]D0ngl33 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You should read "Man Made: A Memoir of My Body" by Ken Baker. It's about a guy who had a tumor in his brain in his teenage years that made a ton of prolactin, suppressing his testosterone. When the tumor was removed his body was flooded with testosterone for the first time in his life. He writes very lucidly about how it made him think and feel. The moronic, dumb-as-shit SJWs who say things like "gender is a social construct" no nothing of neurochemistry or the endocrine system.

[–]Hammocknapping1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Is a masculine quality simply a quality that a specific man has?

I’m struggling to see what about qualities 1–5, 10-11, 13-15, 17-21, 23-27 and 29-30 have to do with masculinity, because they are qualities that are not related to sex or gender.

If we are going to list masculine traits and celebrate them, it would be nice to know what can go on the list.

[–]missiesmithy4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

A woman doing any of those things would be tapping into her masculine energy to accomplish them. If a woman told me that she brews her own beer, for example, I'd think she is totally rad, but I'm still willing to bet that if we tallied up micro brewing hobbyists, the majority of them would be men, making her interest in it a more masculine interest. Men interested in makeup and fashion freely admit to being in touch with their feminine sides. Maybe try looking at it in a less legalistic sense.

[–]Hammocknapping2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So, if men are more interested in doing something, then that makes something masculine? Can that evolve over time? If interest is split 50/50 is it just a neutral trait? How is planning for retirement masculine or feminine?

Is my husband feminine if he chooses to wash the dishes, because more often that’s women’s work? Or is it masculine because he’s a man and I find it incredibly sexy when he washes the dishes?

[–]missiesmithy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men's interest in activities which are (generally) perceived as more masculine stream from a biological imperative to fulfill a certain role. Men have evolved to be stronger and more aggressive on average (necessary for hunting and protecting), while women are more nurturing and patient (necessary for caring for infants). You can't argue with science. Can what is deemed masculine or feminine evolve over time? Absolutely. But it will take longer in an evolutionary sense for the sexes to equalize into some kind of androgynous hybrid than many feminists would like. You are talking about roles. Men can be nurses, women can be engineers, but the interest in pursuing these roles is largely governed by biological makeup, and not just by education or cultural expectations.
I work with kids and even with gender neutral toys I can see a big difference in how boys and girls play. Boys tend to build things and are very good at it. Girls like social games and setting up shops and selling things. Again, these are generalities and there are always exceptions.
I tend to take the eastern philosophical view on male and female energy. A balanced person should ideally seek to have both in place to be effective in the world. Many men benefit from working on nurturing and intuiting, while many women can benefit from working on being logical and assertive. In general, feminine energy is creative while male energy is assertive. Planning for the future and mapping things out (logic/strategy) draws on more masculine energy, but of course women do it every day to great effect. Preparing food and the work that relates to it (multitasking/nurturing) suits many women's natural and instinctual talent, but of course, men do it too and often to greater degrees of success when they apply masculine qualities to the task. One is not better than the other. Both are needed.
Let men be men and women be women. Let men indulge their feminine sides and build fashion empires should they so choose, and women plan the colonization of Mars. To hell with gender roles! There's never been a better time to be a woman.

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your question is great and should be something that everyone should be asking themselves on a national and societal scale.

​

Your question is exactly the reason that blue pillers say that gender is a social construct.

​

I'm posting in a sub that subscribes to very stereotypical gender roles, and I tailored this list to that worldview. Stereotypes are literally the only inclusion criteria for this list.

[–]hellnoggin 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

What do you do in return?

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Go to 2X if you want to hear women brag about themselves. Removed

[–]D0ngl3 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

In my experience, the women who are the loudest about hating on toxic masculinity like to be dominated sexually. Not necessarily in a degrading way, but they like to be used, objectified, and controlled sexually. This turns them on. The popularity of 50 Shades of Grey supports this point.

So, not only is there a healthy masculinity, there's even a sexually desirable masculinity. Yet the SJWs talk as if men = Nazi, for there is no "healthy Nazi" mentality. If it's male, it's assumed to be oppressive. This is horrible and sexist. Yes, you can be sexist against men and racist against white people, despite the fact that they disproportionately hold positions of wealth (let's not say "power" and confuse the issue. SJWs are more jealous than they are sticking up for the poor).

​

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

This post was not intended as a forum to debate the value of the term toxic masculinity. I tried to make that clear in my introduction. This post is about celebrating positive aspects of masculinity.

[–]D0ngl3 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's cool. Free country, free speech, but your thread. I won't add more that's off topic

[–]sonder_one1 Star0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

"7. Bench press my bodyweight and more"

Strength is masculine, but unless you're quite overweight, a majority of adult males who never work out can do that.

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's why it's masculine. Because I can't bench press my own bodyweight, much less his, even though I do work out.

[–]D0ngl31 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men have more upper body strength, on average.

Upper body strength is strongly correlated to resistance to depression. Women have, on average, more depression than men.

Agree, #7 is masculine.

[–]stidd10 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I find it odd that you only seem to celebrate his ability to carry things and fix stuff.... is that really what masculinity is all about?

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And build stuff, and volunteer for leadership positions, and speak in front of a group, and grow a beard, and cook, and solve problems, and stand up for others, and feel secure in his masculinity, and grow things, and apply hand-eye coordination to different skills, and dress well, and plan for the future, and sacrifice his own time and comfort for the benefit of others.

​

Wait, did you even read the post?

[–]throwsemallaways0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You numbered and listed so many excellent (and sexy) masculine traits- I am trying to pick out my favorite ones- but they are all so perfect I couldn’t pick just a few! My husband is very much like your husband, and I am proud of his alpha male and masculine ways!!!!

[–]D0ngl3-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

  1. Protects the well being of all things weaker than himself, like children and animals. He does this instinctively, for for no direct reward.

There's a neighborhood stray cat who I always invite inside for a drink of water or milk and some cheese. He hangs out for a bit, sometimes a few hours, then mews so I'll let him back outside. It just makes sense to take care of him, even though I'm slightly allergic to cats.

[–]ImTheCaptainNow24[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you adding things about yourself?

[–]D0ngl30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, just for fun

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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