~ archived since 2018 ~

Don't be fat.

December 11, 2017

We all know weight is extremely important in SMV/RMV, but I have a personal anecdote that showcases exactly how important it is.

Me and a few colleagues are at a conference (two of them are male, a few years older than me, but we are all friends and one of them is married and the other has a girlfriend).

Anyways, we are people watching, also meeting some new people for networking.

Later we are having dinner all together, and the guys start talking about the people we met earlier that day. And when they came to the women, they essentially categorized the women in the following:

1) Fat 2) Cute 3) Nice

"Nice" was really only described for the women who were much older (AKA the men didn't even really notice an impression) or were simply kind of plain (normal weight but nothing stood out about her in her clothes or appearance). Otherwise they described women as "cute" or "fat."

This is how men's brains work at the basic level. Nothing about "oh she seems interesting" "she seems nice to talk to."

Of course in terms of RMV qualities, you should be pleasant company and have something going on for yourself for long term attraction, but note that on the BASIC level of attraction, just to get your foot in the door and have a guy be even remotely interested, it's all about the physical appearance (weight, clothes, makeup/hair).

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Post Information
Title Don't be fat.
Author vanBeethovenLudwig
Upvotes 144
Comments 78
Date December 11, 2017 8:47 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link
Original Link
Red Pill terms in post

[–]Huffnagle107 points108 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP is correct. The #1 thing, by far, that a woman can do to be attractive to men is maintain a healthy body weight. Given the choice between an ugly girl with a nice figure and a pretty girl who’s 30 pounds overweight, I’ll take the ugly girl every time. Obviously, a pretty girl with a nice figure is even better, but... The majority of American women are overweight, so no matter what genetics you were gifted (or cursed) with, simply maintaining a nice figure makes you more attractive than most.

[–][deleted] 67 points68 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

My mom used to tell me how it was important to be a good person but most people won't get the chance to know someone if they're put off by their appearance.

Perhaps it isn't "nice" but it's true. People who put effort into themselves generally have an easier time with everything.

[–]Xtinamina11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is something I'd like to teach my kids but I don't want to do it in a way that makes them self conscious. Did you find it to bring out insecurities in you, or did you take it as something positive?

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace35 points36 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How do you encourage fitness and health?

  • be fit and healthy yourself

  • make sure they are always playing at least one sport

  • go on family hikes and bike rides

  • boost their confidence without being overly critical

  • teach them about nutrition and how to cook

  • home cooked meals

As a parent, you have a lot of power, and you can introduce your child to many hobbies that will shape their interests later on. Focus on having fun, teaching, and positive encouragement.

[–]causeimnext11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

this. Healthy examples and positive encouragement are the most helpful for younger children. I grew up with a lot more negative reinforcement than positive, and all it did was send me toward the body positivity path. (Thank God I saw the error of my ways before it got out of hand.) An emphasis on a healthy lifestyle goes a long way with young kids.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It was mostly positive (my mom is probably a little too concerned with physical appearance but that's an entirely different topic).

/u/Laceandsilks pretty much covered it. My parents are health conscious and made sure to set a good example and provide us with healthy food. I started dance at age three and gymnastics at five. Just be positive and lead by example. Model the behavior you want to see in your kids and you'll likely have good results. :)

[–]purplestater101 points102 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

I must say I rather enjoy the whole fat positive movement; I’m a size 4 so basically I have the dating market cornered lol. You don’t want to put down the fork and hit the gym but rather prefer to try and change what society finds sexually attractive? Good. Thanks for giving me an edge over the competition

[–]ayogyrh 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm plus size and my SO enjoys that specifically...and I feel dread all the time! There's so many fat women! Ones who have more money to buy better clothes, who have bigger butts. It's terrifying. I freak out. I have skinny friends so that I AM the fat one! I wish he liked thinner women so I'd feel secure actually losing significant weight which would make me healthier. I'm glad it's working out for you though lol!

[–]purplestater21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Girl go hit the gym if that’s what you want to do! If he wants you to put yourself in a position where you wind up with diabetes and heart disease someday so he can have his little chubby girl fetish, then forget him! Do what you want to do for you

[–]littleangelfuxk8 points9 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Yeah hun that’s like me saying ‘oh my boyfriend likes meth addicts so I’m going to become and addict and never get sober because that’s what he likes’ you do you. I’m sure when he sees you becoming even hotter he’ll get on board.

[–]--cunt10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Plus I feel like most boyfriends say they just like your looks. I went from dramatically underweight to normal weight. Fiance raves about how sick I looked then and how hot I look now. But back then he was all over me too. Same with hair color. I think even if your man says "I love you plus sized" and you lose weight, youre not going to hear complaints.

[–]ayogyrh 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I hope so. A few years ago when I talked about losing weight he would get really upset and he has threatened to break up with me because he would no longer be attracted to me. I'm glad you ladies don't have the same experience but you all have down voted what is clearly a personal experience and not a rule. I was under the impression you ladies were supportive. Maybe he was just messing with my head for the last 6 years!

[–]littleangelfuxk3 points4 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t up vote or downvote honestly. I often don’t probably more then I should. If being overweight only affected your phyical appearance then whatever but him making you sacrifice your health with high blood pressure, chance of diabetes etc. you need to work and focus on you and better yourself. And you surly shouldn’t let a mans fetishizing keep you unhealthy and most importantly unhappy with yourself

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

The other user is in a niche relationship with a very specific fetish that does not apply to the RPW community.

You are correct, no woman should deliberately do harm to her body and health just to please a man....especially if it's just an LTR and not an actual marriage.

One person's experience doesn't change the fact that RP advises everyone to be healthy and fit. Why? Because that is the best way to attract people, and boost confidence.

This is not a HAES or fat acceptance sub.

[–]ayogyrh 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not a supporter of HAES. That 'movement' disgusts me and has convinced my SO that I'm healthy. I never invalidated the original observation of the post. I agree with it! I just wish the man I loved had the same outlook on physical expectations so I didn't have to fear him leaving me for a fatter woman.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

  • I didn't say you are a proponent of HAES

  • I said "The other user [you] is in a niche relationship with a very specific fetish that does not apply to the RPW community."

  • You are choosing to be with a man that supports you compromising your health, and your emotions are how you justify staying fat. You may not believe in HAES, but you do believe that it's okay for you to make your body suffer at a higher weight for your SO....which in some ways is worse. You're not even doing it for yourself, you're doing it for a man.

[–]ayogyrh 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Again, read my post history. I follow r/loseit. I am losing weight. I am active. I just feel insecure about my relationship security. I do not, have not, and will not feel okay with gaining or maintaining a fat body for his pleasure.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Glad you're losing weight.

Your relationship still sounds questionable however, based on what you have shared.

[–]purplestater0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

If he leaves you for a fatter woman, guess what you’ll be skinny and cute and can easily get another man at your young age!

[–]ayogyrh 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Lol I don't like to imagine him leaving but that thought keeps me going with my slow but steady weight loss despite my concerns.

[–]purplestater0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Slow but steady is the way to do it. Don’t lose more than a pound and a half to two pounds a week, or you will have issues with loose skin and also you are more likely to gain it back. MyFitnessPal is one app I can’t recommend enough. I use it every day to keep my macros on track

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Anyone can subscribe to the sub and vote.

Complaining about downvotes won't accomplish anything, and there's no way to know who downvoted you or why.

Don't waste your energy chasing windmills, and focus on writing the best comments and replies you can to the people that are actually having a conversation with you.

Other than that, this sub is not a kink or fetish community. Being deliberately fat to meet the desires of one man goes against RP advice to look feminine, be fit, healthy, and feminine.

It's great that you found a man that likes fat women, but that's not what this sub promotes. Your personal experience is not relevant to the community.

This comment has been removed because it's off topic, and adds no value. The last line also borders on insulting the community, but I'm overlooking that.

Take care.

[–]ayogyrh 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

If my personal experience is not relevant, then why are so many others simply because they happen to be considered common? The person responding is insulting my SO and me by suggesting he is lying to me about something very personal to him and has been for 6 years. I do not find it great that he likes fat women. Check my post history, I have been trying to lose weight despite fear of him leaving me for it. I understand this sub likes to see relationships as black and white but there are shades of grey in everyone's life. Addressing a grown woman with a condescending 'hun' and comparing being overweight to a methamphetamine addiction is not considered insulting? How is that comment relevant to the OP? Assuming I'm overweight for fun? I was simply congratulating the OC for having an advantage, not making the OP invalid in their observation which I wish was something that my SO felt the same about so I don't experience insecurity for trying to be healthy.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  • the other user referred to another situation that highlights just how unhealthy your actions in your relationship are, and how messed up the dynamic is. That you are insulted by her observations is irrelevant

  • You will have to be more clear about which user you are talking about. Several people have replied to: /u/littleangelfuxk, /u/--cunt, /u/purplestater, and myself.

  • In your initial comment you focus entirely on how insecure you feel because there are other women fatter than yourself, and then you threw in one line of support for the user (/u/purplestater). By talking about your own relationship and the conditions of your relationship on a thread about how being fat is not wise you opened yourself up to other people chiming in.

  • Your comment has been removed. Please read the sidebar. Others have been honest with you, that you do not like these observations doesn't negate their validity. Your relationship sounds questionable at best given what you have shared.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star30 points31 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's beyond purely physical attraction.

One of a woman's most valuable and critiqued qualities is her physical appearance. For men it's their success.

If a man is fat but successful, he is still respected and desired because he is working hard at one of the most important aspects when it comes to facilitating a relationship.

If a woman is fat, she is not working at what is one of the most important aspects to facilitating a relationship.

It's about what you value beyond even what you look like. If a woman is fat, she either doesn't care enough to take care of her appearance, she doesn't have enough self control to fix her problems, or she doesn't place enough value on what men look for to facilitate a happy relationship.

[–]vintagegirlgame20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Love at first sight is a male phenomenon. The initial attraction is what gets them and they can fall in love instantly with a woman based on appearance. The level that they can love this woman in the long run depends on how strong the initial attraction was. If he was extremely attracted to her, he can fall deeply in love. Even if her personality repels him, he initially can't see past it because of the love goggles and will convince himself that his love is unconditional on her behavior and that he loves her regardless of her faults (though once the newness of her wears off he will notice red flags more and eventually wake up). If he's only slightly attracted to her in the beginning, his love cannot grow much past this initial threshold.

Sounds "shallow" but it's simply how men are wired to experience love. It actually means it's the MEN who are the hopeless romantics, not the women.

Women experience love as a gradual building process. They are way more likely to fall in love with someone they weren't initially very attracted to, but develop feelings for once they got to know them.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sad but true. My wife and I recently got some books that purple pill "For His Eyes Only, For Her Eyes Only" by Shaunti Feldman and her husband. As well as reading Laura Doyle's books.

They talk about husbands as these great, amazing guys that just LOVE their wives. Who just wish to please them SO much. I hate to say it... I don't.

My wife is 250 lbs. 170 when we married, and genuinely big boned. She had a flat stomach and no rolls back then. Now? hahahahhahahahha oh god why am I crying?

I read these marriage books that assume the husband is such a wonderful guy who just wants to make her happy. I feel like a horrible person, because at some level, no, I don't.

It's incredible once the physical attraction has been stripped away just how hard it is to build any kind of romantic love for her.

[–]purplestater8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry that this happened. I’m not married but I would consider it my duty as a wife to not let myself go. My husband will marry fit chick and stay married to a fit chick. Now being 31 it is reasonable to expect that If I would have ballooned out it would have happened by now... that being said I expect the same from him.

[–]cinemadoll1373 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

...While it is sad that she let herself go during the marriage, I really hope she knows you feel this way about her and that you plan to on taking on a healthier lifestyle with her as her husband. You may feel unattracted to her but it seems worse to even say this IF you haven't even communicated to her about you feel.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We've talked about it since I made this post. She really, really gets it now if she didn't before.

Even though we have sex all the time, one day I finally just said to her, "You know, just because we have sex all the time doesn't mean I enjoy it much."

I added something else to the end, but can't recall it exactly.

Before, I kept saying I needed more from her, whether energy, playfulness, touching me more, talking to me in bed, to be etc. It didn't get very far.

Since then?

It's been quite surprising how fast things have turned around in the bedroom since then. All the little things I've been asking for she's suddenly doing. Amazingly I enjoy sex a lot more now.

[–]bakebynumbers[🍰] 15 points16 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I go to a more conservative college, (one of the christian types where half the students graduate married) and its interesting to see how beauty standards are different when the majority of the girls here are thin and cute. You rarely see anyones who is actually fat, and even chubby is the minority. I'm okay size-wise in most places, as someone in their early 20s at 5'8 and about 135 lbs, but I sometimes feel sized out here! But with so many of the girls being goodlooking, its interesting how the focus tends to shift to the girls who are fun (ei receptive to new activities and flirty) [although the really gorgeous girls get attention no matter their personality!] the girls who are plainer or a little bigger either dont really date, or have to be proactive about it themselves.

Sidenote: I have been trying to eat out less and eat more fruits and vegetables (ive never had a big appetite, so eating cleaner tends to put me at a deficit naturally- Ive lost about 5 pounds in the last month by just doing that. Gonna try to get down another 7-10, but im not really worried about losing weight) To bad you cant healthy-eat a not-that-cute nose away!

[–]Spazzy194 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do what feels right for you, but don't stress too much. I'm your size, too, and we're still technically underweight. When I graduated high school I weighed 104lbs (not for lack of eating either) and looked like a concentration camp victim. Doctors kept telling me my ideal weight for my height was 140lbs.

I actually wore my junior prom dress to a masquerade ball last Friday and can say that it looks much better on me now than it did back then!

Focus more on fitness and body tome than the actual weight. :)

[–]eazolan1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

To bad you cant healthy-eat a not-that-cute nose away!

Huh. I wonder if that's all it really is? Where "Heathy" foods are deemed so because they don't have many calories?

[–]bakebynumbers[🍰] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Its probably a mix of calories and nutrients? Like lettuce is considered healthy but doesnt actually have a ton of nutrients, while other foods might be higher calories (like avocado with its healthy fats and stuff but over 200 kcal a cup) but contain more things that are good for you in them.. im no expert though haha

[–]eazolan2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Like lettuce is considered healthy but doesnt actually have a ton of nutrients

You mean calories right? A nice mixed leaf salad should have plenty of nutrients.

like avocado

Avocado is a good counter-example.

Now I want avocado dip and veggie chips. That's healthy and delicious.

[–]bakebynumbers[🍰] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, i was thinking iceburg lettuce specifically, which as I understand has very few nutrients? I could be wrong haha but its honestly the only thing that comes to mind right now that is that way. Celerie maybe? Celerie doesnt really have much in it right?- most fruit and veggies are low cal and high nutrients i think? I need to study nutrition better haha

[–]eazolan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Celery actually burns up more calories than you can get from digesting it.

It might be better when it's cooked?

Mostly I love it crunchy, with peanut butter.


Anyway, now I'm wondering if "Unhealthy" foods are actually bad for you, or just calorie dense.

[–]Waterboo21 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re at a perfectly healthy weight. I hate to be blunt but your weight most likely isn’t the issue, but most people won’t tell you the truth if you ask. It might be that the “hotter” girl whos getting more attention has better boobs, butt, body proportions, face, or all of the above. Even fashion choices can matter, two equally attractive girls and one dresses in tighter clothing.. who do you think the guys will pay more attention to?

Focus on squats and lower body to get a better butt. wear a well fitted,padded up bra under your clothes to emphasize curves. If your face isn’t that great, then nice boobs or butt certainly Help. This is unfortunately the way guys think. Also if your face isn’t that cute, try growing your hair longer and dying it blonde (if you can pull off blonde). blondes attract more attention,even if their face aren’t that great, and people tend to view them as more outgoing and fun.

[–]bakebynumbers[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your insight! I dont think Im overweight, I just am not quite where I want to be and decided to take some slow easy steps to help me get there! I definitely would not want to go below the healthy range, and ill take your workout advice into account :) Im taking a soft break from dating right now to figure out things about myself as I transition from college to the workforce but i agree with what you said about attention! My face is okay- Ive got pretty eyes, and my nose isnt the kind people want to copy but it doesnt need surgery or anything. I have really good skincare and long, dark hair that i think looks good against my pale skin. Ive thought about trying blond but im in school and dont have the resources for it to really be done well right now, plus i worry thay it wont suit me...

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Alternately, if you’re going to remain fat and attract the chubby chasers that do exist in the wild, then you better be sweet and happy.

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And still cute! Even fat you can still have nice hair/skin/style that will make you look much better. It seems like most fat people just give up and start wearing sweatpants and no makeup.

[–]WalnutFeline9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I have a story as well. My bf and I met through an online dating website and he told me that he exchanged messages with (and met) various women before we dated. He told me that once he was writing with a girl and it all seemed ok until he saw her in a nearby McDonalds (she didn't see him). She was kinda fat in his opinion and he told me that he suddenly lost interest in her. It seems extreme but I can understand him. I don't like chubby/fat men either...

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I know plenty of men that "swipe left" to any woman on a dating app who doesn't show anything below the chest in their pictures. In their words "She's probably fat if she doesn't show her body", and that's without second thought an immediate left swipe.

[–]batting4fireflies2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My SO did this. He said he always avoided women who only had face pictures, especially if they wore a lot of makeup or clearly used a filter.

[–]purplestater2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Every single man I’ve ever known will do this. Automatic left swipe if there’s no full body pic

[–]throwawayklutch6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I used to be slightly overweight in high school before I lost a ton of weight (although in the most unhealthy way), and my god it made me feel awful about myself. Once I lost weight all the attention I wanted from guys finally came. That's why I don't understand why anyone would purposely want to be and stay that way

[–]OldFashionLatina2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A man LOVES when her girl takes care of herself not only for her...but for him.

My boyfriend even payed for my cosmetic surgery (just the minor touch ups after my weight loss) based on how happy he was to have a super hot gf...we are talking like 30k at the end of it. Girls, KEEP-YOURSELF-FIT!!

[–]Bad-Wolf- 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

That's true.

Guy here and in terms of sexual attraction, there is no way to deny the importance of a good appearance.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are updated male participation rules that every male user needs to know about and follow. From now on, men will be issued an automatic 2 day ban if they fail to follow the rules. It is cumbersome for moderators to repeat the same instruction throughout the day.

[–]cena75770 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is all low consciousness behaviour. Low conscious people like to categorize others and only care about their advantage in any situation in life. High conscious people on the other hand will never do that. They are full of love and compassion for every being! :)

[–]nonamanuensis6 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

If it were possible to do this long term, I would agree. I still think it's important to keep in my mind but hard to do anything about - it's like telling a man he'd be more attractive if he were taller. Well, of course, but it doesn't mean he should go to dire measures to get taller. I think weight manipulation in the long run is a Chinese finger trap. And so I also think women should take advantage of their youth to find a man when they are young instead of trying to look 20something when one is 35+.

At this point I think that restriction under the equilibrium of one's body will create an equal and opposite reaction and the body will overshoot fat stores in response. I don't think women should restrict and count calories.

"More recent analysis of several prospective studies suggest, however, that it is dieting to lose weight in people who are in the healthy normal range of body weight, rather than in those who are overweight or obese, that most strongly and consistently predict future weight gain."

Where I get emotional because I think advice for young women to diet is terrible:

I ruined my metabolism with common advice and I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy. I think weight (long term) is out of our control similar to other bodily processes like breathing, sleeping, etc. I think we can do supportive activities and mindful choices but calorie counting and excessive exercise, especially inconsistent, isn't healthy. I DO think people should be active and eat balanced but I also think they should rest when their body asks and eat what they want to eat overall. I follow semi-intuitive eating principles - my children would binge and hide food when we restricted carbs. When we loosened up they would still eat a lot but now, a year or so later, we are throwing out uneaten pies and junk food. My kids will serve themselves big servings but not finish them all. So I think the messaging of eating less encourages restriction, which creates binge eating, and the entire cycle keeps going. My metabolism slowed to a resting heart beat in the 40s and my body temperature never got above 97. I lost my period for over a year. I lost bone (despite eating calcium and weight bearing exercise). I ate on average 1600 calories a day and yes I weighed my food.

And perhaps my husband is just nice but he said if he had to choose between me 30lbs underweight (with no libido, amenhorrea, and "fit" but little fat on my body) and 30lbs overweight he would choose overweight without hesitation.

I expect to get downvotes. I get pretty emotional about this and I'm sure it shows. But after seeing my young kids start to hide food in response to restriction, and experiencing being skinny and fat I can't help but share. And we weren't sugar-fearing like some parents are - we just cut down on carbs in general but that was enough to make my toddlers fear they wouldn't get enough to eat. That was what made me re-evaluate my commitment to "looking good" and "healthy" habits. My kids do not binge now. Whew. And their weight hasn't changed although that was a fear.

Some of the fat hatred online is vicious and makes me understand why HAES was created in reply to the unkindness. I was a very slim teen and young woman in my 20s but after my third child my body really didn't bounce back despite starting to pay attention to portion sizes and exercising a little more. When that didn't work that was when I started dieting. Not having a libido but being a size 0 and obsessed with food is NOT FUN. It was the worst time in my marriage and my husband is so thankful I'm not manipulating my size - even if I'm heavier I am much more pleasant and have a libido. I was a "healthy weight" according to BMI charts and I would have had to lose another 15lbs to have been considered for an eating disorder. The more weight I lost the more obsessed I was with food. In hindsight the relationship is clear to me now but at the time I was devastated. And before I get "you didn't do it right" I followed common advice of high protein, IIFYM, body building (not cardio) and it still really did a number on my body. I occasionally check my caloric intake (I got really good at eye-balling how much volume/weight of common foods I was eating) and I do not eat excessively and I still get regular activity. At least my libido is back, my hormones are normal again, my metabolism isn't super low, and I don't obsess over food and binge eat. Whew. I hope over time my metabolism recovers but it may not. Your body really does know what it's doing. You don't count your breaths. You don't restrict how much you urinate. You don't only allow yourself to sleep 6 hours a night. You listen to your body's biofeedback signals.

Posting this on the off chance there is a postpartum mom out there who is thinking about dieting or a woman who is plus size and worried she won't attract a mate. It's more about proportions than size/weight so play up that long hair, smile, and bust/waist/hip ratio! And if you're a large woman perhaps set your sights on a large man instead of forcing yourself to be small. Yes, there are some people who keep the weight off over 5 years but it is VERY small and of enough note to have a separate national register because diets fail so often. I thought I would be one of those long term success stories but after 2 years I couldn't keep doing that to my body.

Also, men are definitely visual creatures but we all age and I think it's so much harder on women to lose fertile looks. My husband still thinks I'm beautiful and his actions show it so I don't worry he will look for a younger woman and we can age together. No one in his family has been divorced and his advice from his parents on choosing a woman was not about looks as much as about character. It's still hard for me to see pictures when I was younger but at least I'm not getting pressure from the one person whose opinion on my body matters to me (my husband.) Minnesota Starvation Experiment - lots of links if you google but here's one

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a hamster going at light speed. Keep trying to lose weight, when you succeed, ask your husband if he really meant it when he said he found you attractive when you were larger. Then you will know the truth. You are lying to yourself and wasting time hamstering when you could be shedding kilos. Try different diets, try keto, IF, IIFYM, just keep going and you will succeed. Do not find excuses not to try.

[–]nonamanuensis2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you read my comments. I did IIFYM and weight lifting for 2 years and did in fact shed weight. I also had amenorrhea and bone loss, which was part of the many things that made me reconsider my commitment to "health and fitness."

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry for your experience, and I am no doctor, but your story has eating disorder written all over it. I'm glad you're at a better place and would agree that obsessing over food can be very unhealthy, but I don't think your experience can be generalized. Also, it's probably best to leave the kids out of diets, unless the diet is shifting from fast food to whole foods.

People shouldn't "diet," they should eat healthy. There's a difference. Having healthy habits includes not bingeing as well as not starving or yo-yoing. Both indicate an unhealthy emotional association with food that will lead to poor physical and mental health.

[–]nonamanuensis5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your comment.

I was unable to get an eating disorder diagnosis because I weighed too much. I was eating over 2500 calories a day but exercising everyday and STILL obsessed with food. I was involved in many fitness and IIFYM communities and if I had an eating disorder, there a LOT of people with similar issues. In the pursuit of health.

I agree - people shouldn't diet they should eat balanced and enjoy fun activities. But that's not what I see people do when they are told "don't get fat". I was involved in a lot of fitness communities for a few years and I guess those kind of moderate and common sense people who got the idea of balance didn't hang out there. :)

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

TBH for a long time I've thought fitness communities aren't the best place for women. Being in shape is good, but certain rules of thumb (like "lift or else" or certain calorie or food group restrictions) I don't think work the same for women's bodies. Testosterone makes a really big difference in how your body handles exercise and metabolizes food, as does the fact that, biologically speaking, women's bodies are made for child-rearing.

I think a lot of "fitness" imperatives are not geared toward women. Like the fact that you had amenorrhea when you were doing "healthy" activities? I know a lot of pro female athletes have this problem, but that makes me think that women aren't suited to be pro atheletes, not that their bodies are healthy.

When women work out like men, we are more prone to certain injuries (e.g. ACL tear), we are less fertile (amenorrhea), and less attractive (when I was an athelete, my man said I smelled like a teenage boy). I know it isn't popular to say, even in the RP community. I tend to look at the way my grandma lived and try to reflect that. And you can bet she wasn't going to a gym full of sweaty men to pump iron and get ripped!

[–]nonamanuensis3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What a great point!

I do think common fitness recommendations are meant for men's bodies more then women's now that I think about it. When I was in recovery to get my period back a lot of women (including myself) had to be coaxed into resting instead of exercising in order to become fertile again. Women's bodies need a certain amount of fat and it's not the amount on most fitness covers. There are naturally slim women who are hormonally healthy but the amount of women I met and interacted with who had to white knuckle their weight and decide between "fat" or infertile was striking. (And by "fat" they had to just gain 10-20lbs to restore their fertility.)

In the past women's activities weren't lifting iron and running 5Ks. It was childcare, household work, and walking since we had more walkable communities. When I had an activity tracker, sometimes after exercise my highest "step" days were days cleaning the house! Especially if I scrubbed any floors or carpets. :) I'm talking 17,000-20,000 steps - it was significant numbers.

And homemade food is radically different in terms of nutrition vs. restaurants/convenience/"health" food these days. (When I say "health"food I'm thinking of low calorie/sugar free/low fat/carb substitutes that I think often trigger restriction/binge cycles.) When we make cookies at home now everyone in my family (of 6) can eat 2 and be happy instead of gorging on a bag of soybean-oil-and-corn-syrup shelved cookies - real butter and sugar doesn't take much to be satisfied. But when we were dieting my husband could eat an entire dozen and I could easily wolf down at least 6 during a cheat meal and still want more.

So yeah, I think deviating from non-traditional activities and food can be risky for women's hormonal health. Although my husband also dieted and started doing triathlons when I was really into fitness. His libido also tanked, he was constantly crabby, and he decided to stop dieting before I did because it was so stressful. His abs and triathlon times weren't worth the irritation, food obsession, and increasing injuries he was getting. Man, we were so proud of how consistent and healthy we were for those years but it just wasn't sustainable for us.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, most men and women aren't meant to have the low body fat content that is promoted in the fitness world. I mean, were also not meant to have to high body fat content of 67% of Americans, but lower is not always better. Abs are probably an unrealistic and even unhealthy goal for most people, and you can be extremely fit and still not have them. (For example, even when I was an athelete, I never had a flat stomach, which could drive some women to hysteria.)

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

At this point I think that restriction under the equilibrium of one's body will create an equal and opposite reaction and the body will overshoot fat stores in response. I don't think women should restrict and count calories.

This only happens if you starve yourself and then start eating normally again consistently. Your body learns that you plan to starve it, and begins to store fat as a response.

This is why you NEED to couple diet with exercise. Your body is a living thing, and it adapts to what you put it through. When you exercise you body learns that it needs muscle to facilitate what workouts you are performing. When you just diet your body learns to survive and operate on fewer calories. This is good, because your body begins to require less food as you learn to eat less, but it is bad in the sense that after your body learns to require less food, you trap yourself into needing to eat less food than you are probably comfortable with in order to maintain your weight.

Pretty much: If you run a totle of 4-8 miles a week, your body learns that its fat is not helping you run, and starts to shed it. If you just lower your calorie intake, your body begins to use up its fat reserves. It will build them up again (probably in higher amounts due to age and condition) once you stop dieting.

Dieting is fine, the whole "I'm doing a juice cleanse for this month" then "I'm visiting 30 breweries this month!" inconsistency is where your body's ability to be a lighter weight falters. The problem with "dieting" is that it is seen as a temporary thing, til you reach your goal. However you decide to lose weight is not a "I made it woo! I can stop now", no. You have to continuously behave in the same way that got you to lose all the weight in the first place.

And perhaps my husband is just nice but he said if he had to choose between me 30lbs underweight (with no libido, amenhorrea, and "fit" but little fat on my body) and 30lbs overweight he would choose overweight without hesitation.

This is a pretty bad example of saying that men are fine with fat women. You're saying "My husband would rather have sex with a fat me than be trapped in a sexless marriage with an unhappy wife". This is not the same as a man that has a choice between a slim woman and a fat woman.

[–]nonamanuensis2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you read my entire comment, which is understandable as it was so long. I didn't starve. I ate 1600 (weight loss) to 2500 (maintenance) calories a day consistently for years, high protein IIFYM. I exercised at what I thought (per my trainer) was a moderate level. And I experienced adverse health and my metabolism and hormones were wrecked.

You are right when you say this:

This is a pretty bad example of saying that men are fine with fat women. You're saying "My husband would rather have sex with a fat me than be trapped in a sexless marriage with an unhappy wife". This is not the same as a man that has a choice between a slim woman and a fat woman.

Men would obviously choose a slim woman over a fat woman all else being equal. I agree.

[–]GreenTeaOnMyDesk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link


[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This comment does not add to the conversation.

If you'd like to expand your comment, then you may do so. Reply to me after you have added appropriate content.

You should also review the sidebar, so you understand the community rules as well as the standards of conduct that every user is expected to meet.

[–]ThatStepfordGalEndorsed Contributor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being fat ain’t all that.
I agree with you completely.

[–]MarjieJ98354 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Although I believe all women should strive to be the best that she can be, being skinny should not be the main thing that men should focus their attraction on. Yes pretty, skinny women have the market on dating; but how happy are the men dating them? Pretty, skinny women leave them at the drop of a hat as soon as something better comes along! Personally I feel that the request for men to have skinny women is based on penis size. Black men don't have too much a problem with bigger women. Although the majority of both men and women of any race prefer hard bodies. But with the majority of Americans obese, there are not enough "skinny" pretty people to address each others "needs". Many MGTOWers cry because even "fugly" women turn them down. (How dare they!!) Their whole movement is based on the theory that women are evil since they have to much sexual freedom. They take advantage of men by raping them financially. And the ones that can't get women are angry because 80% of the beautiful skinny women (and the "fuglies" for that matter) are chasing after the top tier 20% of men. It would seem easier for a man to find a woman that he can work with and mold her into the person he wants her to be. But they won't because they thinks that we're all too femnazi to listen to them. Or she's too old and useless to me now. (Of course the men are old and "Useless" and "fugly" too.) But don't tell them that! More like too angry to ever get a decent women. I'm overweight. I don't necessarily eat a lot. But I'm a middle aged women that can't find a decent man. So I basically work 60 hours a week, don't exercise and drink when I take a minute to think about my miserable life. Even If I ever think about making improvements, I ask my self for what? So I can be skinny and miserable? I need some kind of pleasure in my life. Unfortunately, it won't be with a man.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

  • Please create paragraphs, the next time you comment. This one is very hard to read right now.

  • Your comment has been removed

  • You focus a lot on the MGTOW crowd which really doesn't make up a very large slice of the male population, you go out of your way to insult and rant about a group that has nothing to do with this sub

  • your comment then wanders back to the personal, where it becomes clear that you need to read the sidebar, identify some goals and get to work

[–]Tornadofob 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Don't blame the player. Blame the game. As a guy, I can confirm what OP said. Also within the category of "cute" - there are generally 2 sub-categories. Chicks for short-term & chicks for long-term. Short-term are the 100% looks, body shape, etc. Long-term is "cute" as in at least decent to look at (features, body shape) - but a lot more qualities: caring, level of interest, breadth of knowledge, no entitlement issues, respect for others, willingness to learn, interest in sports,etc. Really nothing that most women cannot change if you are interested in long-term. Yes - keeping your body within a reasonable shape/weight is the one that allows others to be examined. Yes, in theory it shouldn't, but it is. No point protesting - it is what it is. But - it is also something within your power to change.

Summary - Nearly 100% of the things guys want for long-term are within your hands.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are updated male participation rules that every male user needs to know about and follow. From now on, men will be issued an automatic 2 day ban if they fail to follow the rules. It is cumbersome for moderators to repeat the same instruction throughout the day.

[–]killerkoalabilby 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

As a man, I feel very lucky to be able to see the women’s side of dating. This gives me a deeper understanding of dating in general

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men that do not follow the rules are automatically banned for two days.

[–]sonder_one0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is how men's brains work at the basic level. Nothing about "oh she seems interesting" "she seems nice to talk to."

Neither gender is attracted to the other in the slightest because they're "interesting" or "nice to talk to." Sexually arouse, or don't. That's all that matters.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men have a lot more leeway in the looks department than women. They can create attraction through social proof, reputation, and personality. This is why the male focused subs focus so much on personality and frame in addition to physical looks.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. You can have the most beautiful man in the world but if he isn't string enough mentally to lead you then it will never work out. An average guy with the right attitude and assertiveness that will produce more tingles.

[–]Nyquil-Junkie 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

The 2 men you were out with appear to be substandard humans.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This comment adds nothing to the discussion, in addition to being rude.

Please be sure to read the sidebar. Disagreement is fine, but it must be done in a thorough and polite manner.

[–]Nyquil-Junkie 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you telling me, that this sort of discussion by adult men, in mixed company is acceptable?

Kill me now, you're making me feel really old.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Once again, your comment has been removed for rudeness. Adjust your attitude immediately.

The content of the discussion is the topic and purpose of the thread. The character and quality of the men is [1] unknown, [2] irrelevant, and [3] not why the exchange is useful to the RPW community.

OP is not trying to date these men, and certainly is not vetting them for romantic compatibility or leadership skills. RP men will observe and note the behaviors, comments, and interactions they have with women they talk to on a daily basis; regardless of the overall quality of those women. That's the exact same thing happening here only it's a woman reporting back on male conversations.

[–]Nyquil-Junkie 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I was not being rude.

Are you telling me, I am not allowed to make and voice an observation on the men in the discussion in the OP?

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You seem to have mistaken moderation direction as an invitation to argue and debate. You have now made two rude comments and you are continuing to argue.

Again, the quality of those men are

  • unknown

  • irrelevant

  • not why the conversation is useful to the RPW community

You are making blind assertions about people you don't know anything about, on a thread where those people are not being evaluated for romantic compatibility, competency, or overall quality.

Move on.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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