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Dressing Femininely and Negative Reactions From Other Women

mrssmithhh
July 26, 2019
85 upvotes
/r/RedPillWomen

First, with my whole heart THANK YOU to everyone for all the outpouring of support for my miscarriage. You guys have no idea how much your words meant to me.

So about the subject line. I have been studiously been dressing much more femininely and taking special care of my grooming. (The Ordinary is a really great, effective, and unbelievably inexpensive skincare line, if anyone is looking for good skincare.) I have my two toddler sons at home, and I have automatically gotten up either with them or earlier and gotten dressed like I used to before my stay-at-home days. I do my hair, choose an outfit, and do makeup. Some days are fancy and some are just t-shirt and shorts, and I dress to fit my mood. My own personal standard is that, however I choose to look that day, I make sure I look attractive and my best, casual in jeans and t shirt or a little more frilly in a sun dress. For all the stay-at-home moms, this is really a great way to get your head in the game. At first I did it all for my husband, but I realized I had missed this and really enjoy taking the time to be careful and expressive with what I wear and how I present myself. I used to do it all the time “before kids,” but I thought I had to have an excuse, a reason to dress and care for myself, and I had thought that staying at home meant no one would see me, so no one would care, and doing it for myself a wasnt enough of a reason. Wrong. I’ve enjoy it so much! I feel happier with myself! It’s also better for my family in so many ways. My boys don’t go to any daycare or preschools: they’re with me all the time and we just have tons of mom groups and play dates, so when I dress nicely it helps them see a more accurate idea of how people act “out there.” My husband has also said many things and acted very appreciative.

But here’s the issue. I feel great inside my own home, at the grocery store, doing errands, and interacting with strangers, but most of the other woman I’m acquainted with seem to react with a soft negative. Whenever I see other women, and other moms, it’s like a social contract that all of us must be in yoga pants, messy bun, yesterday’s t-shirt or too cool to care about how we care. We have kids! We don’t have time to look good! And just to be clear, I’m not hating on moms who struggle with getting dressed with little kids. Some days I cannot go to the bathroom until noon, much less put on makeup. But there are days when my kids let me have a few moments, and when that happens I make the most of it. And I get the distinct feeling that I’m breaking the girl code of frumpy stay at home moms, and it’s not going over well within the clique. Showing up to a play date with my hair styled and my face done (I’m not talking anything fancy, just powder and mascara), and jeans and a cute shirt is enough to get stares. Wearing a skirt or dress? That’s just extreme.

Sigh. My mom friends have been life savers, and I love that we all meet and build friendships in what would be an otherwise isolating life. Our mom groups are vital for us who stay at home. But it’s tough to break the girl code.

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Post Information
Title Dressing Femininely and Negative Reactions From Other Women
Author mrssmithhh
Upvotes 85
Comments 42
Date July 26, 2019 1:25 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/dressing-femininely-and-negative-reactions-from.246941
https://theredarchive.com/post/246941
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/ci2ubp/dressing_femininely_and_negative_reactions_from/
Red Pill terms in post
testosteronegame
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Comments

[–]wymone40 points41 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you sure this isn’t a projection? Most people probably don’t care that you look a little more put together. However, if you are letting any sense of superiority or judgement sneak into your interactions, people will pick up on that and react negatively.

[–]ImTheCaptainNow2430 points31 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I think you are worrying too much about what you think your friends are thinking. If no one has made a comment, then what does it matter? One option is to just keep doing what you are doing and stop worrying about "breaking the girl code."

A second option is to adapt your "dressed up" style to your mommy groups a little bit. In my personal opinion, part of dressing well is following unspoken "dress codes" for different groups of people and events. Athleisure is so fashionable right now. I don't see why you can't put together some feminine and polished outfits that also involve yoga pants so you don't feel out of place, but also feel pretty. A cute matching athleisure outfit + a neat hairstyle + some minimal makeup + simple jewelry could be very feminine and pretty but also might not make you feel like you are out of place in your mom groups.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 9 points10 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Oh I get what you’re saying. I think I’m entirely appropriate with my clothes and don’t go overboard or dress out of what is acceptable. It’s just that even when I do things like athlesuire with nice hair and some jewelry, it’s still way nicer than the other moms and I am feeling the vibes of not sticking to mom code of “frump is best.” I’m starting to feel a an edging out from women who aren’t my closest friends. The women who I really click with don’t seem to care what I wear, and enjoy my company however I dress.

I think I am mostly really becoming more aware of the convert contract that a lot of women have post-kids, which is a standard of mediocrity all around. Can’t take care of yourself, can’t be nice or fun (unless you’re out drinking), can’t be a healthy weight, can’t have informed opinions about various topics, can’t keep a clean house, can’t cook, can’t not bag on their husbands and talk about how stupid the men are.... it’s overall largely a culture of being subpar and expecting everyone else to be subpar, because we’re moms are it’s really hard to have kids. Not all the moms I’ve met are like this, and I’ e noticed some groups tend to be more upbeat than others, but in almost all of them there is a big covert contract that you can’t expect too much out of them, since we’re all trying and all you can do is try.

Get what I mean? It’s that the pervading girl code I see in Mom Land is “Let’s All Be Medicocre” and just not talk about it.

[–]fosho_away21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure sounds like a lot of generalizations and extreme black & white thinking. Why not just focus on what you are doing instead of what they are doing or what you think they "accept"? If you're not meant to be friends with these ladies, it will fade and you can meet other people you click with better. Right now, it sounds like you're overthinking this a bit.

[–]MillenialMatriarch9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So what you're saying is noone is talking about this "covert code", but they're passively competing to not be what you perceive to be their "best"?

Couldn't it also be that they're not competing at all and are in fact just allowing one another to not have to prove anything? Honestly I have stopped trying to be around the people (i.e. fellow moms, colleagues, etc) who act like life is a competition. Not a single other person on this planet is living my day to day. I handle my responsibilities in the way that suits me and fits it all in. I'll be damned if I'm gonna worry about how some chick in a cute skirt at the playdate feels about my attitude.

If you're group is too frumpy or grumpy, stop being around them and find a group that is more apt to share hairstyling techniques or debate skirt lengths while basking in the glory of motherhood. Hopefully you can find some who can tolerate if you have an off day or season.

Seems like you just haven't found your people. Best of luck.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that people are always secretly sussing out who is “right” and who is “wrong,” and are almost sparing in their conversations about who has the moral high ground.

[–]missiesmithy3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I get you. I cared almost singlehandedly for my two daughters when they were young for that reason. I have high standards and because of it I'm forced to be choosy about who I take on as a friend. I've had a few amazing friends and a lot of lone patches in between. I like it. I focus on my stuff. Of course, some socialization is necessary for the sake of the kids, but try to be smart about it. Just my two cents.

[–]c_a_l_m3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Let's assume you're right, that there's some passive-aggressive edging-away going on. That certainly seems possible to me.

Be kind through it. Behind envy is always sadness, or insecurity. But they don't need to be sad! If they want to improve themselves (which may often be harder than it looks like from the outside), you're there to help. If they don't, you're there anyway, as a friend.

It's a tricky situation, and this may not be "the answer," but it's worth keeping in mind.

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Such wonderful advice! Thank you so much!

[–]Capable_Mine0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like the best way to weed out people who care about you vs your looks

[–]ImTheCaptainNow240 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I sense a lot of judgment from you towards the women you are hanging out with. I'd be surprised if they don't also sense it, and that's why they are edging you out. It probably has nothing to do with your clothing.

Grace is an attractive quality too.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars-5 points-4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think I am mostly really becoming more aware of the convert contract that a lot of women have post-kids, which is a standard of mediocrity all around. Can’t take care of yourself, can’t be nice or fun (unless you’re out drinking), can’t be a healthy weight, can’t have informed opinions about various topics, can’t keep a clean house, can’t cook, can’t not bag on their husbands and talk about how stupid the men are.... it’s overall largely a culture of being subpar and expecting everyone else to be subpar, because we’re moms are it’s really hard to have kids.

It's simpler than this. If you can do all of that, and are visibly able to do it, it makes them look bad. Their husbands will look at their wives and wonder, "Mrs. Smith can be nicely put together and get it all done as a SAHM, why can't you?"

They don't want to do more than what they're doing. You're doing more, and they resent it.

Those who excel their peers are ALWAYS hated by those who are excelled. The only ones who don't hate the great are those who want to be them. The immature response is to tear them down.

This same psychology works on the macro scale too - it's a big motivator for hatred of Jews, Israel, white people, and the US.

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean, personally I have a lot of opinions on, for example, Israel that don't have anything to do with tall poppy syndrome... but I see your point about the rest of it :P

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just that it's a psychological response that you see on both a micro and macro scale. People react to others excelling them in one of two ways: inspiration to be emulated, or competition that must be destroyed. You seem to be running into the latter.

[–]LunarSunshine40 points41 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There definitely seems to be a weird code that mothers (especially stay at home mothers) ought to sacrifice so much of themselves that they loose they’re identity as anything but that. It’s ridiculous and unhealthy, so keep doing what you’re doing.

Your children will learn to thrive by seeing you do it. I work full time, so I don’t have quite the same experience, but even as a working mother there are expectations that you let yourself go and that your work becomes lower quality because of it (que mom brain comments). I haven’t fallen in to either trap, so making friends with other mothers is hard. I don’t want to be friends with anyone that can’t support me and help lift me up though.

You will still be a person after your children grow up, so honor all the different identities that you have (mother, wife, daughter, friend, woman, and insert _____ here).

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That’s the biggest thing I see. I think it’s accepting mediocrity as the standard, and I am sensing some strong negative social vibes whenever I break out of that. And some moms/mom groups are more positive than others, but it seems like right now there is a large culture push for women post-kids to be NPC mediocre blobs.

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars34 points35 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Are you sure they’re reacting negatively to you dressing well and not your perception of them as frumpy?

[–]fosho_away15 points16 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I mean, she said no one ever acts nice, dresses nice, has an acceptable bodyweight, etc. Does OP even like these people?

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly, it doesn't seem like she even likes these people and only associates with them because their kids are playmates.

I was part of a postpartum depression support group and there was a woman who always showed up dressed to the nines and we would compliment her on her outfits and admired her for making time to be so put together. She was a warm and friendly person and we reciprocated that.

By contrast, there was a different woman in the group who clearly thought she was better than the rest of us because she kept up her 3-hours-a-day gym routine through pregnancy and immediately after childbirth. She even made a really condescending Facebook post (in promotion of the bullshit health shakes she was selling) about how much better she was than the "tired," "grumpy," and "lethargic" moms in her support group.

I'm sorry if this isn't how you intended to come off, OP, but your post instantly reminded me of this person.

[–]PantheraTigris954 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Omg that’s such a typical pyramid scheme pitch.... Firstly- you have problems!! Secondly- I’m better than you because of wait for it .... this magical solution that could make YOU better!

[–]mrssmithhh[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I didn’t say any of that in the post... however, I did say that the typical standard is to be frumpy. It’s expected and almost encouraged.

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How is the “typical standard is to be frumpy” different than calling them “frumpy”?

Generally speaking, women do tend to operate according to group consensus more than men do. I’ve never once heard a guy call his friend up before an outing to ask, “What are you wearing to tonight?”

In any case, if you feel out of place among these women or don’t like them, then find another group with whom you’re more comfortable. If you want to continue hanging out with them, then stop comparing yourself and see if that makes any difference in your interactions.

[–]Hammocknapping13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And I get the distinct feeling that I’m breaking the girl code of frumpy stay at home moms, and it’s not going over well within the clique.

Maybe they can sense that you think they’re frumpy, and don’t appreciate your attitude.

People can get down on leggings and yoga pants all they want, but my husband loves them. I change into leggings or athletic shorts when I get home and pair them with a sports bra and tight T-shirt. My husband loves that he can see the curves I work hard for. Unless I was wearing a body con dress around the house (which would be weird) nothing gives that experience like leggings.

[–]THE_MASKED_DOWNVOTTO8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

And I get the distinct feeling that I’m breaking the girl code of frumpy stay at home moms, and it’s not going over well within the clique. Showing up to a play date with my hair styled and my face done (I’m not talking anything fancy, just powder and mascara), and jeans and a cute shirt is enough to get stares. Wearing a skirt or dress? That’s just extreme.

​

​

Yep. This has happened to me ALL MY LIFE. You get used to it after a while, to other women sabotaging you, and after a LONG while, you can just take a glance at a girl, and be able to tell whether or not she's going to be an ally.

​

My advice to you? Get used to it. If you're going to be prettier and/or thinner, EXPECT SABOTAGE, and cattiness from them. Don't get caught with your ass unprepared. Be prepared. Pack an extra outfit in your purse just in case one of them spills something on you "accidentally".

[–]MicrotusOchrogaster8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This. It sorts out the real friends from the women who are only happy for you when they have pre-eminence over you. Sadly, you find that the vast majority of women cannot handle the insult to their pride elicited by your appearance. They are weak of character (plus they've been told all their life that if you ain't pretty, you're a nothing, and yea that has created deep scars in most of the female population). But they aren't willing to make any effort and you are. I trust eventually you'll find the ones and twos that are not insecure and can react to your efforts without being threatened. But yea, if you want to stay in this group, and go unnoticed, your only choice is to stop making them look bad, and sometimes when you revert back to frumpiness, even that is not low enough, now they've seen what your capable of. Best to slowly adjust your expectations and don't let your heart expect loyalty from most of the mom clique, don't emotionally invest in them, just hang around them for light-hearted fun activities, but ultimately, find some women who are not threatened by you and make them your close friends.

​

And lastly: don't be surprised if some even exceptionally good looking women are still threatened by you. Most of us have pride at our core, and a sort of wish to be worshipped/admired by all around. Most women who are good looking are dressing up for this effect, rather than for enjoyment of their femininity or for the enrichment of their husband's life. It's mostly about power and social status, so don't be surprised if even the best are still insecure and snarky about you. Good quality women who genuinely enjoy being female are hard to come by these days, but they are there in small numbers. Good luck OP, I hope you deeply enjoy your femininity and the pleasure your appearance gives, I've never been happier since I delved fully into my femininity. And the more you do, the more you realise that every woman could have a place at this table, no matter what size/genetics/beauty or whatever, because true femininity is available for all women, it's not a beauty-restricted thing, and truth is, most of beauty is actually effort, not just inherent good looks. I wish the women around me would just by a frock and grow their hair long and do their hair nice, rather than bitching and being competitive - they'd soon realise that we can all be like a different type of flower in a bouquet - all beautiful, all pleasing to the eye, but different. The awesome thing is when I see the women around me start to step into their femininity (even out of competitiveness at first) but they start enjoying it and taking real pleasure in being a woman WAHOO! Then they are free from feeling inferior or ashamed of themselves, it's one of the greatest pleasures to see. You just have to accept a LOT of snark before it gets to that point, and some women just refuse to tolerate being second best, and this is due to pride. You can't help them sometimes and that friendship will ultimately die due to jealousy. You need a bit of humility to get better, just like we did when we took a look at our frumpy selves and realised we wanted to be more. Once you start to sense jealousy, and attempts to harm you even in small social ways, or intangible cock-blocking, then it's often time to leave, as jealousy only gets worse, and wishes you more and more harm as they eventually can't tolerate even your existence. Some of the proudest, most jealous ones almost seem to wish you dead, and they will do anything they can to hurt and destroy you (yes, all because of pride, and their wounded pathetic ego) and you must absolutely get out of their before they achieve their aims on you. Beware of jealousy - it goes beyond insecurity - it's an extremely harmful emotion and will cost you.

[–]THE_MASKED_DOWNVOTTO3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can't help them sometimes and that friendship will ultimately die due to jealousy. You need a bit of humility to get better, just like we did when we took a look at our frumpy selves and realised we wanted to be more. Once you start to sense jealousy, and attempts to harm you even in small social ways, or intangible cock-blocking, then it's often time to leave, as jealousy only gets worse, and wishes you more and more harm as they eventually can't tolerate even your existence.

DOUBLE THIS. ESPECIALLY IN THE WORKPLACE!!!!

​

At this point, I have one coworker who COMBS THROUGH MY WORK looking for ANY flaws or mistakes. Usually I have to respond "I already sent that to you, on wednesday. Do you need me to re-forward you the email?" or "can you send me that in writing? I didn't have my notebook on me and I wanna be sure to remember this."

​

I've learned that its more effective to throw them off guard. To react non-defensively and focus on solving problems instead of assigning blame or hyper-focusing on nitpicking flaws you have.

[–]MicrotusOchrogaster3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a great strategy actually, and you have records of her inappropriate demands if it ever becomes an HR issue. I find the worst type of jealous one eventually overstep the mark and do something that is actionable as their hate intensifies, but yeah I hope you’re dealing with one who just simmers at her irritating sneaky level rather than escalating. I’ve had exactly the same treatmt, and took me years to have the self confidence to realise I wasn’t worse than the average worker, it was due to some weird female inferiority complex (the male workers were fine with my work). Trouble is when you get a whole bunch of women in an academic department who have long since abandoned their femininity in lieu of power and intellectual pursuit, you can get hoardes of them at the same damn time trying to pick and hack at you emotionally - EXHAUSTING 😩🙄😤 but it’s validating to hear about your experience for me, thanks for commenting.

[–]mydogwillbeinmyheart1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the honesty. It seems a lot of ladies here prefer to sweep the dirt under the rug. I though this was a politically correct free place.

[–]Chet_Manly09875 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its super simple, a large percentage of people fall into a comfortable spot in life. They don't really want to wake up at 4 am to be at the gym when doors open at 5 am. They don't really want to log their calories in their phone or skip on that doughnut at the office that Karen brought in. They don't really want to go for that run on Saturday morning or do that extra bit that we all know would make a better version of us. And softly, quietly they fall into a routine where "Hey girl, its okay. You do you!" Which translates to "banish the bad feelings and replace them with false good feelings that you haven't earned. Be okay with your mediocrity."

And here comes you, ruining all that. They look at you and see who they could be, they see you clearly doing it day after day. And you make it look easy. Their hampsters' lies are exposed. And they get angry, not with themselves but with you. They don't think to themselves "Why should I be upset about the results I didn't get from the work I didn't do?" No. They think instead, "Hey Fuck that Bitch! Who does she think she is?"

You are a one woman army, utterly destroying an entire culture of "You should forever love me for who I am (regardless of how far I let myself go)" just by simply living your best life. You existing with your happy husband and marriage is the best proof there is. After all success is the best revenge. They don't want to rise to your level, they want to tear you down to theirs. Never change. If anything, be proud in your superior ways, because it truly makes you a better wife and mother and brings about a better marriage, and life.

[–]JustinFaulkinTrudeau 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

Listen up buttercup !! Dress how you like and forget what anyone else thinks. :D

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women do not function like this. More TRP less RPW.

[–]Hammocknapping2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

One option is to just keep doing what you are doing and stop worrying about "breaking the girl code."

It’s ridiculous and unhealthy, so keep doing what you’re doing.

Never change.

Same sentiments as the deleted comment. I believe this removal was too heavy handed.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I consider the effort and the source as well as the comment.

[–]JustinFaulkinTrudeau 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Every woman has the right to function how they want to, stop promoting social standards !

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I meant the "forget everyone else" part but go ahead and see what arguing with me gets you.

[–]Capable_Mine0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why are you discounting the fact that those half put together looking women are secretly envying you and wishing to be you. They might even look upto you as inspiration. Don't just project your negative thoughts on them maybe look at it the other way as well

[–]mydogwillbeinmyheart0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry OP. I can't lie and tell you it's all in your head and that you're crazy. Human beings are competitive, so that means women are too, especially in the physical appearance department. It took me a long time to accept that painful realization. Perhaps you can try to dress down a bit if you're going to meet them. On one on one interactions, you can emphasize one nice feature about that person, the eyes, the hair, the skin, so as to make her more comfortable and less competitive/resentful.

[–]aussiedollface20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are intimidated by other women who look better than them. That’s all there is to it, so you either play along and fit in or you do your own thing and don’t care. xo

[–]mairymb0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve definitely had some similar experience. I like to dress well without going overboard and I often have to defend myself. It’s almost as if people think you are snob or a bimbo and you have to prove them wrong by showing them who you are. I’ve realized how they react has nothing to do with me but all to do with their own insecurities. It’s easier to put someone down than to be introspective. I’m also learning to be more introspective myself after reflecting on that. I have to say this sub has been really incredible in providing me the truth and making me reflect on my own beliefs.

[–]sarmstro1968 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Keep it up - most of us love it!

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't pet the unicorns

[–]sarmstro19681 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks - literally LOLd

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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