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Expectations vs. Reality: What We Think the Opposite Gender Wants

August 8, 2021

This one is dedicated to all the RPW newbies who need a bit of theory breakdown. This is a summary/repost of this The Rules Rewritten post. If you already “get” it and have some extra time on your hands anyway, feel free to keep on reading too 😉

Before taking the red pill, there are certain false ideas that men and women often think their potential partners would want. These ideas are often based on what they want in a partner themselves, in a misguided attempt to apply The Golden Rule to love and dating. It would work in a utopia of perfectly identical sexes, but unfortunately (for them, and fortunately for us), men and women are quite different from each other. It looks a little something like this:

Men think women want:

1) handsome men so good-looking that he’s considered prettier than most

2) nice guys who are sweet and endearing

3) neck-to-toe hairless bodies

4) a luscious, full head of hair

5) sensitive men

6) peaceful men

Women think men want:

1) women who are hard to get

2) tall women who tower in heels

3) confident women

4) badass women

5) successful women

6) tough women who aren’t afraid to get down and dirty

Now, that’s not to say that the things on these lists are straight up unattractive to the opposite gender. Women still like handsome men, and there are some exceptions who dig the whole soft, sensitive type of man. Men still like women who are tall, and some exceptions like whole successful, boss bitch thing. But this is RPW, where we talk about generalities that apply to most, not exceptions. We also need to recognize that while some of the sexes’ expectations are reflected SOMEWHERE in the opposite sex’s desires, they are nowhere NEAR the priorities for what the vast majority of men and women actually want.

Still struggling with the concept? Think about it this way: how turned on were you by the sensitive dude with a flower or the skinny hairless guy with a pretty face? That’s how men feel about Oprah or Charlize Theron in Mad Max, at least for LTRs.

Instead, consider these lists reversed:

Women actually want:

1) men who are hard to get (or at least highly covetous and desired by many) - just think of every male lead for female stories like Christian Grey from 50 Shades of Gray or Mr. Big from Sex and the City

2) tall men - ‘nuff said.

3) confident men - aka men who will be confident in their ability to lead us

4) badass men - in pure fantasyland with no responsibilities, a significant chunk of women daydream about bad boys or at the very least hyper-masculine men

5) successful men - again look at how many women want a Christian Grey or Mr. Big type

6) tough men who can get down and dirty - it just does something for our instincts to gravitate to men who can protect and provide

Men actually want:

1) physically attractive women - ya know, men are visual creatures and all that jazz

2) nice women who are sweet and endearing - a feminine personality has gone a long way for the women here!

3) neck-to-toe hairless bodies - it amps up the sexual dimorphism between us and the hairier sex

4) a luscious, full head of long hair - more evolutionary psychology for ya: it shows youth, fertility, and health

5) sensitive women - we’ve talked at large here on how vulnerability triggers his protective instincts

6) peaceful women - we’ve also talked about being a soft place to land and how it will keep your relationship strong

So to the newbies: stop trying to self-project your own desires onto the opposite sex. It would work SO much more in your favor as a sexual strategy to use the reversed lists. Some of us do and to great results. It may also help your understanding of why being “hard to get” ultimately does nothing to boost his attraction to you, or why you shouldn’t be dating the sensitive nice guy if you’re having doubts. Finally, knowing that many people tend to self-project, listen to what they say they want in a partner as an indication of how THEY want to be treated if it sounds a bit nonsensical or suspect.

Again, highly recommend that Rules Revisited post - it’s much more eloquently stated and goes a bit deeper into the trappings of self-projection. I just felt we needed this reminder around these parts!

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Post Information
Title Expectations vs. Reality: What We Think the Opposite Gender Wants
Author SunshineSundress
Upvotes 154
Comments 89
Date August 8, 2021 12:12 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link
Original Link
Red Pill terms in post

[–]AnonyDexx 44 points45 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

OK, I'm a tad confused here. Do women really think/thought men want a tall chick who then wears heels? Why?

[–]TheBunk_TB 14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Inappropriate power dynamic that bad cultural programming/wishful thinking has created for women.

Many men might find heels sexy but it was bad tv/movie writers that created this.

[–]AnonyDexx 24 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Many men might find heels sexy

Heels are definitely sexy, though uncomfortable. But being naturally taller, is something I've never heard of.

[–]ManguZa1 Star 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm a man and hate heels, i find it not sexy at all.

I think that most of the heel things is built by the society and not something instinctively sought by men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Must it be cultural programing? I think we all automatically assume that all people around us think like us.

[–]TheBunk_TB 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, many men think that heels make a woman look good. (Heard it had something to do with a visual trick making legs/derrière look a certain way).

But the drive for it through woman steered entertainment was trying to not be looked down at, some of this was workplace based. The biggest steering mechanism was bad writing in certain shows/movies that were made for women.

Someone else created the ideas, to sell products to women, (after all the marketing money targets women).

Especially true in the future as never been marrieds and childless women's numbers climb, (reference Forbes 2019 about sheconomy)

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 11 points12 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Think about all the female runway models, aka people hired explicitly for their beauty before the social justice era, who are required to be 5’9 and up to even stand a chance in that industry. Those same runway models then wear sky-high heels to tie the whole look together. That, compounded with the fact that they find tall men attractive themselves = many women think they have to be 5’9+ to be a 10/10.

[–]AnonyDexx 24 points25 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. I've never seen/heard of a girl want to be tall and if anything, they specifically want the guy to be taller even when they're in heels(one actually checked if I was taller when she had heels). But I suppose I've managed to avoid those women I guess.

[–]arabiandoll 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a girl and same, most women don't want to be tall. We want a tall man BECAUSE we want a big height difference. Women thinking men like taller women is just inaccurate imo

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Oh, they still want their men to be taller than them with heels. They just also think they need to be taller than the average too 😅

[–]jzdelona 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Am I really that unusual for not giving a shit about height? I like short guys just as much as tall guys and I know plenty of short dudes who aren't rich but have magnetic personalities and they get plenty of women.

[–]Flogisto_Saltimbanco 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank God women like you exist. I love when I get one taller than me hehe

[–]Intrepid_Place5390 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yes, you are. If you've read OLD profiles of women like I do, many many will state they like (Tall men), that I"m tall and I like a man taller with me, wearing heels.

It just is.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think you’re unusual! You just have different priorities, and some other women do as well. However, you’re definitely not the norm. When we generalize, height is one of the most consistently sought after traits for women in their men.

But I agree, I’ve seen plenty of short men with good charisma and social skills do just fine. It goes to show that men are human doings, and we’re MOST attracted to them for the things they do.

[–]Intrepid_Place5390 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yup, I know girls 5 foot 4, that demand that their man be over 6 foot 2.

that rules out about 92% of the male population. Math sucks, right?

[–]Icringeeverytime 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

women wish to be 180 cm tall and date 195 cm tall men. easy lol

[–]Smartditz 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

The reason why those women are tall is because essentially they are live clothing racks. It doesn’t have anything to do with tall women being the status quo of beauty.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It doesn’t. But it creates the idea for those women being the status quo of beauty, especially to women, and it stuck.

[–]Smartditz 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I get that. As a 5ft tall woman I’ve always seen my shortness as an advantage based on the reactions I get from men. But I suppose there are other women who are more conscious about beauty standards and where they meet them, and where they fall short.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

As a fellow 5 ft tall women, I couldn’t agree more 🤣

[–]No_Mirror_3451 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It is interesting. I’m 5 ft 9 inches and I’ve always gotten positive feedback. I guess we all think we’re killing the game. 🤣 In reality, we’re probably pursued by the men who find our height attractive to them. But if you 5 foot’ers could stop pursuing the 6 foot 3 guys that would be appreciated 😆

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel that! I think ultimately, women’s height doesn’t have MUCH effect on how men feel about us - they pretty much think short AND tall women are attractive, all other things held equal.

If anything, the main reason why I think some tall women end up feeling insecure about their height is because they’re only attracted to men taller than them, which means they’re dealing with a much smaller percentage of men than short women are. It can kinda make it seem like there’s less men out there for them, when in reality shorter dudes like them just fine!

But if you 5 foot’ers could stop pursuing the 6 foot 3 guys that would be appreciated 😆

LOL, I briefly dated a 6’3 guy once, and basically felt like this. It was difficult to even walk and talk with him, so I’m much more comfy with 5’5-6’0 men. I know PLENTY of 5’0 girls who are definitely of the “6’1+ or bust” mindset for some reason, so you’re onto something 😅

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Smartditz 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Height isn’t exclusive to elegance but can come into play.

[–]vivalachavez 20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Girl where tf did you get that fem-lib what women think men want list??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is all a summary from that The Rules Revisited post I linked to! As much as I’d love to take credit for it 😂

[–]vivalachavez 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ohhhhhh ok I’ll have to check out that post then. It seems what women want in a man is what men actually want in a woman. 🤔

[–]Anonymous_fiend 14 points15 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Rules revised has some quality content. Especially the post about attractiveness and controllability. agree minus the hairless part and the attractive part. While he doesn't have to be a 10/10 looks wise most women don't give average looking men a chance. Very attractive men are usually are confident, hard to get because they have options, and get better opportunities/more successful due to the halo effect. Maybe in the past attractiveness was less of a thing but online dating/social media has changed that. In the past you usually only saw a couple of hot men and only the ones in your town or from traveling. And on TV but even then women knew those men were unattainable. Mow women thing they deserve a 7+ even if they aren't a 7+ themselves since they are exposed to them more. Most men I know don't think women want hairless men. And most women I know don't care.

Self protection is a serious problem. I fell victim to that in my late teens. Luckily I've been learning to embrace my more feminine side instead of staying in a masculine energy.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think we fall trap onto thinking "attractiveness" is a monolithic concept that only means one thing. As far as I have noticed, there is "attractiveness" = 1) bringing out a sexual desire; "attractiveneess"= 2)physical beauty of harmonious proportions.

All women need 1, but not 2. I don't see women fawning over male models and bodybuilders, but over actors and singers, whose attitude, posture, voice, etc, makes them sexually desirable. A man who has a perfectly sculpted face and body brings reactions from some, but most women gravitate towards other types of men

[–]Anonymous_fiend 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

True. I've definitely been attracted to some unconventional guys. Sometimes even more than classically beautiful ones. I read somewhere that women rate other womens beauty based on #2 while men focus more on #1 when they look at women.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anonymous_fiend 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah I read an article about this too. A 7-8/10 is usually a 7-8/10 to most people. I'm in that group and people always think I look like another person or confuse me for someone else. The women they mistake me for are beautiful but it's a basic beauty vs an intriguing one. Women who are pretty with unique features can be rated anywhere from a 6 to 10 depending on a man's preference. Some men find those features ugly while some men find those features interesting/adds character. It makes them more memorable whether good or bad. That's why I don't get the ig and plastic surgery trend where everyone wants to look the same. It makes some women less attractive. Also it makes that look lose its appeal since there's so many women who look similar.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have the opposite problem; nobody ever mistakes me for anyone.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Most women don’t give average men a chance and have unrealistic expectations, but average to women isn’t based primarily on looks unlike how it is for men’s preferences. Social status, capability, leadership, success, wealth, and physique tie into the equation pretty equally along with looks. Does being physically attractive help you get those things? Sure. But there are handsome guys who don’t have those other qualities women find attractive, and they usually don’t go so far because women are attracted to men for the things they do.

Glad to hear you’ve addressed the self-projection! I had to do the same and it made a world of a difference.

[–]Anonymous_fiend 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

True those traits make a man an alpha bucks vs just attractive which is what most women want. Unfortunately those are rare so women usually go for attractive vs a more successful capable beta. Alpha fuxks beta bucks is pretty true. Imo a mix of traits is the best instead of a dual mating strategy. I want a loyal quality man I can depend on to provide, protect, lead, & care for me. I'd much rather be exclusive with a well balanced average man than be with a top 1% man and have to share.

The worst part about men being very visual and appearance focused is that we pretend they aren't. Society is trying to tell men what they should find attractive and shames them for their preferences. Women are encouraged to not improve or take care of themselves. Before marriage many women don't stay fit because the right man won't care. And after marriage many barely put minimal effort into their appearance. Their men are supposed to be attracted to them the same because he loves them.

[–]Intrepid_Place5390 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"women usually go for attractive vs successful beta". Until the epiphany phase and they are ready to settle down. I shouldn't say settle down. Most of those women are getting the same SMV range they are in, it's just that if they are playing around they can get a higher SMV guy, and get used to it and like it. That's really the fundamental issue with this whole modern dating/relationship scene.

Women get used to being with Higher SMV guys. Those high SMV guys aren't really looking for a LTR with them or marriage. They are just having fun. And many of the women today are totally on board with it, just having fun also. They know that guy won't settle down with them, but they are having fun anyway. He's hot.

Then, they reach 30 , tired of partying, want to settle down,etc. But, they are used to Chad six pack. They aren't happy with Joe plumber or Steve the IT guy. He just doesn't tingle her. Tell me that's not going to mess her up long term.

Agree with your comments generally. Good for you , you get it.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Agree with you! I can’t seem to find it but there’s a classic RPW post that says the best man for most RPW isn’t Chad Thundercock or some beta provider - it’s the soft alpha/greater beta. He has a good balance between the exciting alpha traits and the reliable beta traits.

Yeah, the whole “a real man would love me at any weight” schtick is just straight up BS. Though it sucks to see so many women delude themselves like that, it also makes the odds for women who are sharp enough to reject that BS so much better. It takes LESS work to be wifey material these days, and for those who go above and beyond, they do even better.

Edit: here’s the link to that soft alpha/greater beta post!

[–]Intrepid_Place5390 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"It takes LESS work to be wifey material these days".

True, if you are femine,pleasant attitude, no debt, treat your guy with respect and not overweight. You've got most of your competition beat today.

The Soft Alpha stuff, is basically the difference between a real HVM and a player.

The player isn't really interested in you, or LTR,marriage. He's just out for himself.

The Soft Alpha, is the same type of guy. Good looking (to you),etc. But, he's also got the RMV and interested in a LTR/relationship.

[–]LivingfreewithSophie 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, I don't a great that women want a man that's "hard to get"..

"Getting" someone is very masculine, and I like a man who doesn't back down from pursuing his dreams - me it me or other areas in his life 🙂

If I have to to fight for a man, I start to feel bad and masculine, and I don't enjoy it. It makes me feel like he is not interested and I loos interest...

Otherwise fine points.

  • except, men do want a woman who has standards, but is nice about them, not a B. 🙂

[–][deleted]  (26 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 26 points27 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Don’t fall for “natural”.

It also isn’t “healthy” or “natural” to pluck our eyebrows because theoretically, the excess hair there will stop sweat from running down our faces. It isn’t “healthy” or “natural” to cover our fingernails and toenails with attractive colors. It isn’t “healthy” or “natural” to whiten our teeth or get braces for purely aesthetic reasons.

And yet, these things will vastly improve your SMV. They amp up our beauty and youth cues and highlight SEXUAL DIMORPHISM. Sure, adult women get body hair, but adult men have much MORE body hair than we do. Shaving it off is exaggerating that difference between us and the men, just like plucking our brows and painting our nails does. Whitening our teeth, though subjecting it to chemical treatment that weakens your enamel, gives it a more youthful look that isn’t affected by decades of food stains, taking years off your appearance.

Having these markers makes us the fairer sex. We’re not striving for “natural”, we’re striving for MUCH better than that.

So if you want to show off your hairy legs and pits, be my guest. But you don’t get to do that AND get mad when men are grossed out by it 🤷‍♀️

[–]usmilessz 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you, but are you talking about western beauty standards? because i know a lot non-westernized countries that actually embrace and see hairy women as beautiful.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I’m talking about western beauty standards. But some western beauty standards have made their way around to some non-western countries as well. The beauties of Bollywood and Turkey are notably hairless and shaven. So are the kpop idols and Chinese actresses. Perhaps hairy women are embraced in more indigenous or hyper-conservative cultures, but for countries that have been touched by Western influence and modernization, hairlessness is what’s idealized.

[–]usmilessz 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for clarifying :) And I agree with you.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No problem :)

[–][deleted]  (19 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 6 points7 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

No feminism.

Honestly girl, are you sure this sub is for you? You tend to be disagreeable and out of step.

[–]orangerose18 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

I’m not being feminist. I believe in core RPW truths but disagree with some of the minutiae. I think femininity is a good tool and I enjoy cultivating it. I just don’t think being shaved bare is a core tenet of femininity.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl 10 points11 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Whether you believe it or not, your ideas tend to be fairly feminist, you-go-girl. I have noticed this over time. This is the case for many women because it is in our culture to such a degree that it gets in your brain.

u/sunshinesundress made all the relevant points in her response to you. The only thing I'll add is that it doesn't do any individual any good to wring her hands about what society and men expect. You can keep your unshaven legs but you cannot make men desire that. RP above all is about acknowledging the terrain as it is not as we want it to be.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

RP above all is acknowledging the terrain as it IS not as WE WANT it to be.

Beautifully said. I feel like some women here are starting to become deluded and self-projecting their own desires for themselves onto men, which is why I reposted this in the first place.

[–]orangerose18 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

RP to a certain extent works in my life, but a lot of it is downright unrealistic and false in my terrain. I usually speak for my terrain to give a perspective that’s not usually seen on this sub. I feel like a lot of these strategies work on politically red white-majority populace’s, but would backfire horribly in pan Asian-majority politically blue regions.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It is certainly true that the red pill orginates from Western cultures. I'm not sure why it has been picked up so widely because so much is influenced by culture that we can't, and maybe shouldn't, be preaching to men and women outside of the west.

But that's just my personal opinion. Obviously the sub is open to anyone following RP thought.

[–]orangerose18 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think Asian red pill would work better for me haha. It’s also truth but more in line with my goals. I’m unfortunately not attracted to Western men.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Lol, as an Asian woman living in one of the most liberal, bleeding heart cities in America, I can confirm for you that there is still a general consensus on what is beautiful and feminine, and that RPW strategies work just fine here. Hell, they might even work BETTER than they do in conservative, red states, because classically beautiful, feminine, and submissive are much rarer specimen here.

[–]orangerose18 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Classically feminine and beautiful only works if you’re also a hard worker, intelligent, and educated. Men I’m going after won’t even date a woman with a humanities major — they want their smart software engineer wifey.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

When have I ever told women they don’t need to be intelligent and hardworking? When has an endorsed contributor ever told women to abandon their basic education for the sake of finding a man?

You say RPW isn’t applicable in blue states. I think you don’t have a good grasp on what RPW actually is if you think that.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 18 points19 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Have you ever seen a 50 year old woman who took good care of her teeth without whitening it? They’re in good condition, but they’re still yellow and stained because surprise surprise, food has pigment. Eating nutritious foods like berries or turmeric or beets for decades will stain EVERYONE’S teeth in the long run, even if they brush and floss twice a day. While her teeth are still healthy and functional, they indicate something unsavory about her if she were to go back on the dating market: her age. It’s unnatural to whiten your teeth, but they WILL improve your SMV because they WILL make you look younger, which is a cornerstone of women’s SMV. No ifs ands or buts. Whether or not it’s actually worth it due to its effects on enamel is up to you, but to say it won’t improve your SMV is dishonest and deluded.

I don’t think men liking hairless women or women liking buff men who bench press 300 lb+ in steel is “sick” at all. RPW isn’t a place where we shame men for what they’re attracted to, like the feminists are doing for men who aren’t turned on by morbidly obese women. If humanity didn’t constantly push against the boundaries of mother nature, we wouldn’t have airplanes or electricity or even fire. Why are our looks off limits when it comes to innovation and pushing against the boundaries of what’s “natural”?

Have you specifically asked them what they mean by no makeup? Because men usually think this and this is “natural”, when in reality it’s a little more like this and this. And these are women with some of the best facial structures in the world. A woman with average looks, like the vast majority of all women, will look significantly WORSE than those two with no makeup.

Are men really more attracted to completely makeup-less women - blemishes, dark circles, deep set eyes, nonexistent brows and all? Or are you just a little salty that the women who do no-makeup makeup can sneak by the vast majority of men’s detection and score higher on SMV? That men have literally been studied to feel arousal to perfumes and scents with jasmine and vanilla in them or how sandalwood physically arouses both sexes? That the vast majority of men feel disgust when they see women with hairy armpits, and to a lesser extent hairy legs?

These means to maximizing your femininity and SMV exist. Just because you choose not to take them doesn’t mean that you’re morally superior to everyone who does. It also means that those who DO use them often find themselves ahead of the curve, natural or not. Call me a pragmatist, but I’d rather use what I KNOW works than to hope that people conform to theoretical utopian ideals that match what I want perfectly.

[–]orangerose18 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

If you get good sleep and wash your face properly your skin should be fine. If you have “dead eyes” then your lifestyle clearly isn’t working for you and it’s unhealthy.

Women didn’t shave before WWI when men went off to war and razor companies needed to continue selling their product. I think artificial beauty standards created by a company to sell a product are not a true indicator of my femininity and not worth following. Continuing to participate in the capitalist propaganda rat race will only drive people further and further away from true femininity — character and health over shallow boosts.

Men who lift only lift because there’s less manual labor to do now than in the past. Being able to build muscle shows testosterone and they’re an indicator of true strength. Whitened teeth only show that you got a treatment. It’s not real. Roided men are also fake and give an uncanny valley vibe that’s offputting.

I’m sorry if I appreciate femininity and health over scrambling to fit whatever artificial trend is trending. Fat women used to be in vogue. Then boyish women. In the 2000s small lips and small butts were attractive. Now it’s pear shaped kardashians with a big butt. You can’t win by following trends. Cultivating your own health and character is the best investment.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Lol, you can’t sleep away facial bone structure that makes you prone to dark circles. You can’t sleep away your genetics that makes some women prone to having facial hair and others having brows that don’t show up at all. Even if you drink water and sleep 8 hours a day, you won’t rid your face of the acne scars brought on by the hormonal changes of puberty without the help of unnatural and invasive laser treatments or unnatural, prescribed acne medication like accutane. These issues aren’t lifestyle issues: they’re largely genetic. I don’t want RPW to only be for the tiny percentage of women born so genetically gifted that they’re stunning without makeup. RPW is a realistic toolbox for ALL women, and realistically, most women stand to improve their SMV greatly from some minor enhancements via makeup or even cosmetic surgery in extreme cases.

People have been shaving their body hair since Ancient Egyptian and Roman times. It isn’t just some capitalistic invention that popped out of nowhere just because some rich men wanted to make a hefty sum. Those rich men SAW the potential demand for shaving products because there’s been a vast history of body hair removal for millennia. This isn’t a shallow boost - it’s a practice that’s been done to enhance our bodies in efforts to become more attractive and socially acceptable since the earliest civilizations.

The men who did manual labor were strong and fit, but they surely did not look like this or this. There are still plenty of men who work manual labor, and they don’t come CLOSE to looking like that without enhancing themselves further at the gym, often carrying much more body fat and having smaller, less defined muscles. Women fantasize about Henry Cavill and Chris Evan’s bodies that took 18-hours-a-week at the gym and insanely restrictive diets. We aren’t most attracted to just natural; we’re most attracted to those who have gone above and beyond.

Fat women were never in vogue. Venus By Bottecelli is curvaceous, but she’s definitely not obese. The rare places in the world that DO prefer obese women are those with severe issues with food insecurity, hunger, and starvation. In the western developed world, where food is easily accessible, fat has never been “in.”

As for the other beauty trends, those are more directed at women than at men. Men still found women with hourglass figures attractive when boyish women were trending, and men still found boyish women attractive in the Kim K era. J-Lo was still a sex symbol during the heroin chic era, and the Victoria Secret models with 32a cup sizes and XS panty sizes are still highly desirable in the Kim K era. Why? Because they have enhanced and exaggerated their other feminine qualities to make them attractive. Let me remind you that RPW isn’t a lifestyle or an ideology or a way of being. It’s simply a set of tools for women to use to improve their sexual and mating strategy.

[–]orangerose18 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Idk why you’re so pressed about having every woman fit into a narrow box of fuckable. Literally no woman I know fantasizes about Chris evans or Henry Cavill. Too muscular. Not lean enough. I know some guys who are jealous of Cavill’s ass though, and I can see that. There’s quite a wide range of what men find attractive as you acknowledge, so I don’t really see the point in shaving my thighs and pits when I can easily attract men while also being comfortable.

I find the behavioral aspects of RPW valuable but looks wise.... I’ll do what I want thanks and my comfort and happiness > men’s view of me as fuckable. Men are attracted to me anyway, pits and hairy vag and all.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You don’t know ANY woman who likes Henry Cavill and Chris Evans? I feel like you’re purposefully withholding the truth, or so insistent in your view of the world that you’re covering your eyes from the general and objective reality.

Again, I said you can be hairy all you want. That’s totally your prerogative. But you being upset that most men find hairy women disgusting, or you trying to tell women that they don’t, is futile and misleading to the women here who DO want to improve their SMV and DO want to become attractive to the vast majority of men.

[–]99sand2000s 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry TMI Question, I am a hairy woman. I shave my legs and under arms and occasionally my vag, if someone will be looking lol. However i have thin but noticeable hair literally everywhere and it seems futile to remove it because it takes so much time. Do you think it is disgusting to men if i don't remove the hair from my back or bum cheeks for instance?

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think what you’re describing is peach fuzz and in most cases it’s fine to most men! If it really bothers you there’s always laser hair removal but I don’t think it’s that necessary if it’s not thick and coarse!

[–]ScratchyMeat 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for this post! I feel like discussions like this are helpful. I know I used to project my desired traits toward other women and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong!

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Glad you liked it! The Rules Revisited is a gold mine for good stuff like this idea if you wanna check it out! I also used to my desired traits and thought men liked extremely sarcastic, aggressive women. Whoops!

[–]Arial-sori 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I... no ? I'm a women, I've a crush on a guy, he's small, smart, kind and funny with cute curly hair and do cool random things that I find interesting. I don't care about his body hair, success or anything like that. He's just a person I like to spend time with. I mean do other women really go all judgmental like that on the people thay love ? I don't have many social interactions but I 'm pretty sure that isn't the case...

[–]Secure_Discount5896 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah this shit is weird honestly, but they’ll just say you’re an exception to the rule and thus irrelevant

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Again, it’s a summary of The Rules Revisited. Which a big part of RPW theory was inspired by in the first place 🤷‍♀️

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Judging from the fact that every single r/theredpill post of yours got removed by the mods, I’m gonna take your opinion with a grain of salt. It seems you don’t have a solid grasp of RP theory in the first place, so we’re really not even working within the same framework.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Huh? I think you missed the point of the entire post. All the things under “What women think men want” are not things men want at all. That’s literally the point of the post. Men don’t want hard to get women, or badass women. That’s what many women, especially feminist women, THINK men want, and that discrepancy is what I’m trying to address. That’s why I used those pictures that I KNEW would turn the vast majority of men off - to illustrate that discrepancy.

Women don’t use good-looking men for validation if he’s antisocial and unsuccessful. They use high-status, high-capability men for validation, because the ideal female mating strategy is to find a guy who’s capable of protecting and providing for her. Often times, these things are all correlated, because a guy who has the drive to take care of his body and grooming also has the discipline to excel in his social and professional endeavors as well. But to say that women use men like beauty objects is more akin to incel rhetoric, which says men’s looks matter more than the things they DO, and that’s FAR from RP theory.

As for the hairless thing, are you telling me that the vast majority of men in the western world aren’t turned off by women with armpit hair and scruffy hairy legs on women? So you’re telling me you and all the men around you don’t get a visceral gut reaction to this? Are you sure about that?

Aw, you want my post removed? Feel free to submit a report to the mods. Let them decide what they want to do.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't expect a follow up answer. If all his posts on TRP were removed then he doesn't need to be here telling ECs they are wrong. 🙄

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, the guys who spill over from TRP thinking that we’ll inherently bend the knee to them because they’re red pill men are definitely something! Thanks Pearl 💗

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 17 points18 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Completely irrelevant? That’s a STRETCH. You wouldn’t care if the mother of your children was such an airhead that she can’t correctly and properly raise your kids?

Most men don’t care about how credentialed a woman is. Your PHD and CEO title is not making his dick hard. But they do care about her intelligence, because their partner is still the First Mate of the ship. In a committed partnership, she needs enough intelligence and capability to make his life easier, not harder. After a certain point, a lack of intelligence and common sense becomes a burden for HIM.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl 9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

In my experience it is entirely incorrect to say that men do not care about intelligence. It is still an area where men "date down" (and where women date up) but that doesn't make it irrelevant. This, like social class, is a "watch what they say not what they do".

Further, I believe (as in I forget the stat exactly) that people can comfortably communicate with others who are around 15 (maybe 20) IQ points from them. A wider gulf becomes too difficult to cross.

[–]CheffWallets -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I understand but in comparison to beauty and sexual attractiveness, this is completely irrelevant. I learned that watching people during several years. Never seen any smart girl beat a hot young, never and I'll never see.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just because other qualities are of a higher importance, does not make intellect irrelevant, which was what you said.

No one at rpw is arguing that intellect is above beauty.

And, kindly, it is also possible that this is indicative of your social circumstances or age.

[–]CheffWallets 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i understand your point.

[–]CheffWallets -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

this is my opinion, personal opinion and I can live perfectly with your disagreement.

It's not a problem.

thank you for your commentary but still, I don't think any men considers this more important than raw beuaty and attractiveness.

This is how MEN thinks. We cannot be changed.

There's a big difference between degrees and papers to real inteligence, they are not correlated.

The credentials on bullshit college won't make you smarter than a real degree specialization like any STEM, this is something you confound constantly, real intelligence with a pile of papers.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

thank you for your commentary but still, I don't think any men considers this more important than raw beuaty and attractiveness.

When did I ever say intelligence was more important to men than beauty and attractiveness? What you said was that a woman’s intelligence is IRRELEVANT to men, and I’m saying that’s incorrect. I’m saying it’s relevant, but I never said it was more important than beauty and attractiveness.

There's a big difference between degrees and papers to real inteligence, they are not correlated.

Yup. That’s what I said.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reading comprehension dear:

there are certain false ideas that men and women OFTEN think their potential partners would want.

Often, not always.

[–]PrincessaRusalka 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ex didn’t have the perfect face, definitely hairy but the low deep voice is my number 1, just sayin.

[–]MilkDirect7626 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Mens list kinda wrong

[–]One_Cookie9229 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]dadudenines 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The level of denial is extreme on the looks, weight and attitude areas. I think women are often too invested in these pretty lies to face reality. It would be too depressing.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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