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Feeling sad for a hypergamous example

August 16, 2017

I've got a couple friend, friends with both the husband and the wife. As some of you know, I live abroad. This couple friend studied abroad in England in their mid -20's (they're 34 now) and moved to our current country a year ago. The wife found the job first and the husband followed.

Just saw the husband earlier this evening at a group dinner (the wife actually lost her job and is trying to find a job in England).

Apparently the wife had been cheating on him since last September. So I had basically been spending time with this couple for sure year, not knowing that she had been having an affair this whole time.

He tried for one year to fix the problems. They included things like lack of sex, lack of romance, him having a lower salary. Typical female hypergamous instinct. I started to remember some of the things that he did for her...he would always let her choose where to eat, let her call the shots. Let her "explore life" while he worked six days a week and met with her after he finished work. He was basically a beta bitch. He would bring things to her like she requested, thinking that was what she wanted when she said lack of romance. He even threw a surprise birthday party for her. Typical movie romance but no tingles.

Also minute details like he wasn't able to take his driver's license test for a while, so it was basically her driving the car and her company renting the car. Housing was provided by her company and not his.

Because I was friends with the husband as well, just hearing his side of the story broke my heart. I used to skim TRP and read stories like this all the time but coming from a man I actually knew, who I was friends with...I really felt for him. He had oneitis for this girl. He even secretly recorded her kissing the new man in their car and read emails/texts from her to him.

This girl isn't even very attractive - slightly overweight and less than average face. I would say a 5.5. And she's 34. Still feeling entitlement at that level.

Whose fault was it? Should she have given him credit for trying? He obviously didn't realize what he was doing wrong (caring too much and not improving himself). Was she in the wrong for cheating or was it his fault for not setting the standards?

Anyways, I just needed to post this somewhere, I haven't made a post in a while. But this situation was so shocking to me because 1) I spent time with both of them when she was cheating, and I had no idea, and 2) the husband was a friend of mine.

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Post Information
Title Feeling sad for a hypergamous example
Author vanBeethovenLudwig
Upvotes 13
Comments 30
Date August 16, 2017 1:45 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
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[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I believe that both are at fault (him not improving himself during the relationship, communication problems from both sides, her not being upfront about what was going on) HOWEVER she cheated because she wanted to.

She could have a) Get a divorce if she wasn't happy anymore or b) Have couples therapy and communicate her issues. She took advantage of him because she could.

[–]Wissenschaft853 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much, they are both at fault which is very often the case in any marriage/relationship that fails. If she cut off the sex, then theres likely nothing the guy could have done to save the marriage. She then decided to cheat rather than get a divorce. Thats taking advantage of someone. At that point, she didn't really love her husband anymore.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

They actually agreed on a divorce this past summer. The husband let her see a new guy on the side while trying to fix the problem, since last September. Over the summer she asked for a divorce. It's very sad. They dated for 10 years but only married for 6.

[–]Aomicb8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why would you agree to your wife seeing someone else while trying to fix things? Doesn't even sound sane.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually maybe he didn't agree...I could have made it up. Now that I think about it, I think he caught her cheating. He had access to her email and texts and location settings.

I guess it's bad vetting on his end, not choosing a woman that would try to work it out before going off with someone else.

[–]Wissenschaft851 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A woman not making an effort to work things out is usually a sign they had weak attraction in the first place. Some women do that. Marry a guy that is a good provisions but they have weak attraction to. They think it will work itself out. It never does since desire is not something that going to increase over time. You can maintain desire in an LTR but you can't create it when none existed in the first place.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Someone who cheats is always in the wrong in my opinion. We are more than a combination of our baser instincts.

[–]CleburnCO11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women can't love someone that they see as lesser than themselves in life. Status touches a part of the brain that you can't touch by being nice, funny, or smart.

You see it in pre-selection and how it influences attractiveness.

Respect is integral to love from women. Respect is the outward sign that a man has passed the selection criteria to move into possible relationship territory...and it's hard to respect someone that you perceive as lesser in some way.

He learned a hard lesson. Sad deal, but totally predictable.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good to see some RP thinking here. My most recent post covers this topic and I received a lot of flak for it.

[–]Calliope1013 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hi all, noobie here!

It sure sounds like she has a lot to learn as far as communicating in a relationship. Communicating well means talking about all the stuff that makes you feel awkward. It means being good enough with expressing your idea that your partner understand and doesn't feel attacked. Communication skills aren't instant. They take time to develop, and need to be refined from the beginning of a relationship.

But you know, there's something else that strikes me as very odd. This man seems like he became quite resourceful when he wanted to look for his wife's cheating. But not resourceful enough to get a driver's license right away? That doesn't sound like a minor detail. That's not following properly researching and through on an important responsibility. Hollywood romance tricks just don't make up for a man who will not pull his weight every day.

Hypergamy seems like kind of an excuse. My gentleman totally gets how important it is to maintain his drivers license or insurance or make his payments. He's responsible, worthy, and amazing. I love him with all my being. OK. Yes. He makes less than me. So what? He's no beta bum. And he gets a phenomenal dinner cooked for him every night. ;)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It does seem like he was lazy in his relationship until she was already cheating. Not that its an excuse for her to cheat.

[–]Calliope1010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Certainly not. If someone calls another person a nasty name, that's not justification to kill them, as an extreme example.

But you know, when I hear "that person broke their vow!" It is almost always on relation to cheating or leaving a spouse when they are sick.

I always thought marriage vows were more than than just that? (I have never been married)

[–]TheLaughingRhino 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Most people need to vet harder in relationships. Most people rush into it, and it make sense on a certain level, life is so short. It's hard to meet people. Most people are slogged down with work and trying to survive.

The base problem becomes even if you vet hard, people do change over time. Or they fully realize the parts of them that were hidden well and the other person ignored or didn't spend the time to discover.

In any modern relationship, man or woman, you have to be prepared for the other person to leave you, at any time, for any reason. Marriage. Kids. Money. Promises. You could have saved the person's life and given them a kidney or bone marrow, and it doesn't matter. The person can walk at any time for any reason.

People who cheat or do other horrible things do so because they are behaving in line with their character. You can't blame the "victim" for the choice made to hurt them, the only think you can blame them for is choosing a crappy character person in the first place.

Most likely, he was ignorant, but not stupid. He likely did the best he could and didn't know any better. Most people are like that. Some people though are stupid, meaning they know the risk and the odds against them and human nature and take a bad bet/high risk situation anyway.

Character matters the most. Nothing else matters if they don't have good character. A person of low character is a turd. You can cover a turd in expensive frosting. You can blitz it with fancy packaging. You can serve it on gold plate with diamonds around the edges. It's still just a turd with whip cream on it.

Once someone reveals their horrible character to you, then the best bet is to leave. Kids together. Money locked up. Property involved. Got a dog together. At some point, who cares. The reasons to stay will never be worth lying in bed next to a low character turd.

I think part of the issue here is Person A believes, if I did something different, said this or did that instead, this would not have happened. And that's just not true. No matter WHAT YOU DO, people will BEHAVE IN LINE WITH THEIR CHARACTER. Sometimes it's a question of time, but the results are always inevitable.

I'm sorry for your friend. Pain is never easy.

Most people are painfully simple in their motives. The hard part is getting past our own issues and hopes to see them that way.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for your input.

In any modern relationship, man or woman, you have to be prepared for the other person to leave you, at any time, for any reason. Marriage. Kids. Money. Promises. You could have saved the person's life and given them a kidney or bone marrow, and it doesn't matter. The person can walk at any time for any reason.

TRP talks about this for men but as a woman even I feel pessimistic about marriage.

€Most likely, he was ignorant, but not stupid. ( I don't mean these terms in a cruel way, there is no other way I can think of to describe it) He likely did the best he could and didn't know any better. Most people are like that. Some people though are stupid, meaning they know the risk and the odds against them and human nature and take a bad bet/high risk situation anyway.

She was already out of his league, I think. I think the basis of their relationship was him being a beta because she was out of his league. He was a nerdy computer geek. Once she started getting "cooler" than she just thought she deserved everything and better.

Sad, very sad, I really felt his pain when he told me. Especially because I was only the third person he told, after the whole saga was drawn out for a year. Can you imagine keeping that to yourself for that long? And I was shocked because I didn't think the woman was that kind of character.

I've heard some people say that cheating doesn't reflect on that person's character as a friend, but I believe it does.. Maybe it's just me. I can still have a good time with them and laugh and have fun but in the back of my mind I know the things they did to their spouse behind their back.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Whose fault was it?

Hers. 100% her fault. If there was something she was unhappy about, she should have spoken up. She said romance but it meant nothing to her when he was romantic, so either she was lying or she didn't know what she wanted. Either way, she's responsible.

He obviously didn't realize what he was doing wrong (caring too much and not improving himself)

Let's stop for a moment and appreciate this very question. He's wrong for caring too much?!?! (I agree with you on the self improvement part).

If he doesn't care about her, she complains that he doesn't car. If he cares about her, she loses interest. He can't win. It's up to her to change something and overcome one of her impulses. She doesn't get to have it both ways.

Was she in the wrong for cheating or was it his fault for not setting the standards?

Women have agency. Women can chose right from wrong. Women don't need men to set standards for them. They may enjoy it, but as grown adults, they don't need it. Once again, she's squarely at fault here.

If this type of story happened to one person, it would be a personal tragedy. But this story has happened to countless people, hence the creation of TRP. Men are waking up to the insanity brought about by entitled western women. Along the way, we're waking up to female nature that's been present forever.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If he doesn't care about her, she complains that he doesn't car. If he cares about her, she loses interest. He can't win.

EXACTLY. A man who cares too much is a pushover beta and a man that doesn't care enough is too dark triad alpha. It's so sad that we need to play these games. But TBH I feel that women have to, too. Too doormat/maternal and we're boring and too fun party girl and we're untrustworthy.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's so sad that we need to play these games.

It's very sad indeed, but we need not play such games. If you remember, a while back when I wrote a post called honesty and games

[–]Aomicb3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If there had been a lack of sex and romance for a long time it may have been irreparable. she has been feeling unattractive and unloved because of it for quite a while. I don't know how you can undo making someone feel unattractive. Why didn't he want to have sex with her? Sometimes good intentions and relationships just don't work out. You can learn something and move on to the next thing and get it better next time around. Always sad and painful when it ends though.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know whether the sex drive started to lack on which side (was she expecting him to do all initiating? Did she ever initiate?) nobody knows. For me it should be effort on both sides.

[–]nawinter771 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Who knows who was at fault, in their relationship which none of us are privy to the day-to-day experiences between each other? I'd argue it's none of our business, too.

If you want to remain friends with both... definitely keep any fault finding thoughts you have to yourself.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's good to learn from other's experience to prevent it from happening to ourselves.

[–]nawinter773 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah! My apologies, I thought you were attempting to assign blame for the process of choosing who you're going to remain friends with in this couple.

Which I have seen a lot of. It rarely works out well for the person who is attempting to navigate through another couples problems.

That said, without knowing the specifics of their relationship, it would seem you've already come to the decision that the cheater was / is at fault. You have clearly pointed out many of her flaws or detractors, to the point of seeming a bit hurt yourself by her behavior. All we can learn from what you have said here is: Don't marry a cheater. Most people probably do have friends who have cheated on an SO at some point in their lives, but since it's incredibly personal & doesn't reflect well on them, we would never know it. Are you hurt that she cheated, or just flabbergasted that you weren't aware of her cheating?

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do think both of them are at fault and the husband just didn't know how to deal with it (he thought being more of a beta would help, but probably if he became more confident it would have made a difference. I also think the basis of the relationship wasn't secure in the first place...I speculate she thought having a beta husband that did everything for her was what she wanted. But it just proves women still prefer alpha behaviors).

I'm not hurt that she cheated because it doesn't affect my life and I'm still friends with both, but I feel very sad for her husband. I guess I'm also flabbergasted I wasn't aware since I spent so much time with both of them. Everything seemed normal. It does goes to show that people can hide cheating pretty well, especially from their friends. The husband said he suspected something because she started asking for more privacy and was blocking him, that's when he started reading her emails/texts and even put a camera inside her car. He recorded them kissing in her car.

I'm also very fascinated by human psychology so hence the analysis!

[–]zeeohsixer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Who is at fault ? Well, that's really tricky. When you're neck deep in a relationship and its not going well it's easy to end up chasing your tail. Lots of us men have been there, although this gentleman was certainly on the more extreme end. It's only after such a relationship ends and some time passes that you get that 30,000ft view that one really needs to logically/objectively diagnose what went wrong. Send him over to TRP if you really care about him.

[–]Wissenschaft851 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Hypergampy might be the rout cause but thats largely a subconscious instinct. Its not how woman think. What might have happened was that this woman married a man because he was a good provider but she wasn't quite attracted to him sexually. Either that or he became to beta once married and that killed her libido. Once she met another man she was attracted to sexually, she cut off sexual relations with her husband. Men are more willing to have sex with multiple partners but woman often will cut off sex with someone they view only as a provider. Now the woman may have thought, hes a good husband, I still love him, but this new mans makes me feel alive in ways I haven't in a long time. This is what TRP refers to as hamstering. Coming up with any excuse to justify illogical behavior. No doubt this same wife would be greatly offended if her husband had done the exact same thing she was doing herself.

Lesson for ladies: If you feel the need to cut off sex in your relationship, the relationship is dead. Don't fool yourself into thinking its anything else. No sex in relationships mean you don't want to be physically intimate anymore and your mans going to notice that immediately.

"He obviously didn't realize what he was doing wrong (caring too much and not improving himself)."

Thats not his main problem (though being too beta in mindset is a big problem). His main problem is that he didn't vet his woman good enough before deciding to get married. If she can't handle being lonely while hes working his ass off to provided for her then she wasn't good wife material. A good wife needs to be a partner in the worst of times, not just loyal and loving only when fortune is good. A good wife is a strong woman with high self-esteem and doesn't need constant attention from her man. In short, it most certainly was his fault for not setting the standards.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The other problem was that she was making more money than him at the time too. She was basically expecting him to provide and she would have freedom to work and do whatever she wanted (fitness classes, music lessons, dancing). She also was a big sheltered growing up, and I think now that she has money and a better social life, she thought she was too good for him. He sort of stagnated and only concentrated on his job.

Who knows, maybe if she respected him more and respected his desire to give her freedom while providing for her, she would have stayed. But it was just classic RP example of how the tingles gets you farther than providing.

[–]Wissenschaft851 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, the tingles get a man laid. Thats not the same as being able to make an LTR last. Basically, sounds like typical hypergamy at work. She was making all the money she needed and wanted a man to give her an even better lifestyle or more exiting sexual life? This is really shallow thinking. Yes, all women have hypergamy but as with all base instincts, a woman can choose to go against them. This wife choose to be selfish.

As for the husband, he needs to learn to better vet women. His wife cheated on him behind his back. Hypergamy only explains a womans instincts/sexual strategy, how she acts on them is her own choice. This women choose deception and selfishness, shes choose to make herself happy first and foremost. Shes not a good woman.

[–]Aomicb0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she pays for house, car and drives him around, he is not the provider she is. I know of a few couples in this situation and while its kind of rare for the women to be taking care of the guy it does happen and seems to work for their personality types. All still married for many years atm.

[–]oasie 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I think hypergamy is a lame way to excuse really bad behavior on a woman's part.

If you think about it, Red Pill Men (or so called) don't really hold women up the standard they think they do. They keep spouting stuff about how it's just our nature and we can't be helped.

[–]suddenlystevie-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not your relationship, not your problem

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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