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Has anyone else noticed that the only men around them involved in church or religious stuff seem to be low-test/effeminate/borderline gay?

September 10, 2020

I’ve found this to be an issue in practicing Catholic circles. I even went out with a devout guy whom I found out was in the closet sometime later.

Honestly it seems like “masculine” “guys guys” just seem to have no interest in organized religion, or are only a part of it nominally. My impression is that these types almost end up not needing church or the concept of God as a fallback.

Has anyone had luck meeting masculine men who also demonstrate some commitment to their spiritual lives?

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Post Information
Title Has anyone else noticed that the only men around them involved in church or religious stuff seem to be low-test/effeminate/borderline gay?
Author grandmother__willow
Upvotes 132
Comments 77
Date September 10, 2020 11:40 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
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Original Link

[–]leinlin 61 points62 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Me personally not. I‘m glad you raise the discussion though and am looking forward to the replies you‘ll get.

[–]neverendingtasklist 50 points51 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

If your not opposed, Hispanic men tend to fall into the masculine while also religious category. I grew up in South Florida fwiw.

[–]sometimesibritney 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This. I dated an Hispanic man, very alpha type and a devout Catholic.

[–]bel_esprit_ 16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The only problem with Hispanic men (in my experience) is that they tend to be “mama’s boys.” As alpha as they can be, but you will never measure up to his mother. I had a problem with this. I don’t want to be in a relationship with a guy and his mother.

Now my fiancé is Northern European. They love and respect their mothers but they don’t put you in this weird competition with them. Thank God.

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only problem with Hispanic men (in my experience) is that they tend to be “mama’s boys.” As alpha as they can be, but you will never measure up to his mother.

Don't mistake macho for masculine. South American men culturally are very much macho, but it's brittle, all surface. Macho is appearances; masculine goes to the bone.

[–]neverendingtasklist 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. This is certainly an issue.

[–]bitchbaby1 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

so true.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

My husband and all of his very traditional friends only became involved in religion after they married religious women. They all checked the box of faith, but none practiced until they had a reason to be godly men. That they are, too. One of his friends is a youth minister, officiated at our wedding, and at one time thought Tucker Max was hilarious. He married a Christian virgin and became the man he obviously wants to be... so I wouldn't write off the guys who just check the box.

[–]Nandemodekiru 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same thing with my brother. Only started taking Catholicism seriously after he married his wife and had my nephew. I believe my own father was the same.

[–]IcarusKiki 43 points44 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’ve found that like attracts like. Fun masculine men that do macho things attract attractive fun party girls. Sweet godly conservative women attract sweet conservative men. Fun party guys aren’t usually praying in church on their sundays off they’re usually recovering from a hangover. But you don’t want a guy like that anyways. Despite what a lot of redpillers say alpha guys that party all the time rarely end up with tradwives.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


[–]IcarusKiki 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe you can find one who’s at least open to it and introduce it to him slowly? I’ve noticed that men tend to get more spiritual as they get older. A lot of young party guys that age hide their spirituality because it’s not considered “cool” or because they haven’t felt their own mortality yet.

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link


[–]MirriMazDuur 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not in all Eastern Europe. I guess there's a difference between different orthodoxies too. Here all the morale and the preaching focuses around forgiveness and humility, which men don't take a liking too. Church is seen as a thing for old women. I cannot remember one single man in my age group mentioning going to church ever.

It is also worth noting that religious people in the urban areas have quite the disliking for the religious institutions (because of corruption, hypocrisy, tax evasion, no actual charity work, etc)

[–]leinlin 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I met some young Croatians that go to church frequently. One of them a good looking cool guy, which pleasantly surprised me. So they‘re out there.

[–]nirvananas 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There is no "very religious people" in western europe. Even in poland which is pretty christian it only translate to people saying "i am christian" and that is all. So you ll have plenty of these masculine guys thay call them christian but you won t find them in church or in religious activities

[–]bel_esprit_ 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can confirm this.

We live in Western Europe (in Switzerland). My fiancé is very alpha male and he’s not Christian or religious at all. I love it.

(In Western Europe this is normal. People are not amused by religion and they do not entertain it. Probably bc many of these countries have a long history of being subjugated by churches and church people, that they openly reject it. Interestingly, places like Germany and Switzerland honor Sunday/the Christian Sabbath much better than the US— literally nothing is open on Sundays and it forces you to “rest” on that day. No one attends church but they do take the resting part seriously).

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


[–]SilentG33 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My area has one of the largest Russian populations in the US. The majority of the husbands are masculine, confident and openly religious.

[–]caelum52 13 points14 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Genuinely curious, why would church be a fall back? I don’t go to church as often as I should, but when I go, it’s to practice my faith

[–]AnarchoNAP 28 points29 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you don't make it in this world, there's always the next. If you are making it in this world you are less inclined to focus on the next. For better or for worse.

[–]caelum52 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Gotcha that makes sense. I can’t say I agree with the reasoning but I can see why people would think that way

[–]AnarchoNAP 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn’t even say it’s a line of reasoning. Some successful people are religious but the ones that aren’t initially aren’t out looking for something to justify themselves. If you’re out looking for something to justify your lack of success, religion is one option.

[–]jakethegreatwhite 11 points12 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Im born and raised catholic and you could say im very masculine, but most of my friends and myself rarely go to church anymore for many reasons but one is that its a waste of time, and two i certainly dont go there to meet dates. My second girlfriend went to my church and was definitely in the "church girls are the wackiest" category, so naturally men like us who tend to be able to get women certainly wouldn't go to church to find them. Also the priest was a convicted with possession of child pornography, and again naturally i didn't want to even set foot there.

[–]Nandemodekiru 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Jesus... fair enough, dude

[–]jakethegreatwhite 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Hey! Don't take the lord's name in vain! That's a truly sinful act! No shit that priest said the same hypocritical bull

[–]Nandemodekiru 6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I’ve never understood that hang up. Whenever you hear someone say Jesus, it typically is just a substitute for “Oh my god” in awful situations, which is typically meant as “Lord have mercy”. It’s meant as a simple prayer. The hell do they mean don’t use it in vain???

[–]squatternutboshh 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Refers to one of the 10 commandments: “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain.” Exodus 20:7

[–]Nandemodekiru 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I STILL don’t know what they mean by that

[–]squatternutboshh 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

lol true. There’s other verses that talk about it, would have to read it in full context i guess :)

[–]Eosei 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I suppose, if it truly were a simple prayer, it would be fine and not "in vain", but in reality you could replace it with any profane word you like and the meaning of the utterance would not change. Prayer is (should) be something different.

[–]Nandemodekiru 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Like what?

[–]Eosei 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Prayer is worship, prayer is spiritual communication. Prayer is focusing your heart and mind on something, humbling yourself and asking God for help. Something like that. An euphemism to the effect of "Can you believe these f*cking people" is not exactly it :D.

[–]santarosa2020 20 points21 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that women have been feminizing the church for decades, so it's not surprising that some of the men heavily involved in parish life tend to be effeminate.

The best thing to do for the long term is to promote masculinity in your parish. Don't encourage girls to be alter servers, have this be an all male space. Discourage the music director from playing feminine hymns during Mass. Try to promote things manly men can be involved in with parish life. Don't let the women take over with the management of things in parish life. Listen to what the older man have to say and encourage them to take leadership roles. For CDC classes, try to give masculine examples boys can follow. A poster of David and Goliath on the wall can inspire a boy to pursue a manly spiritual path.

The above changes will take some time to produce results. In the meantime, make friends with the women you meet at church. They may have single sons, grandsons or nephews they can introduce you to. You may be able to draw these men back into the church.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link


[–]cast-away-ramadi06 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I came here to say the exact same thing. I've tried attending churches before and seems it was a low-key condemnation of masculinity wrapped in a 'woman can do no wrong' sermon. You should read a little from the blogger dalrock. Of all the MRA-ish bloggers, he was one of the few who was mentality balanced. I used to read him and Susan Walsh from hooking up smart, who was another good blogger, but hers is offline. Thankfully the wayback machine has it archived but it's going to be really slow.

The best service I've ever been to were from the Chaplins in the USMC. Those chaplins spoke to me in a way I heard. With most pastors and priests, I just didn't hear them.

[–]Shane_The_Stoic 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The chaplain at Parris Island is the only one that left an impression on me, and I have a feeling it's because of the circumstances. Whenever chaps would come around in the fleet and ask for people to pray with, I'd go everytime, but I can't remember any one of them being special. Wish I could have heard from yours.

[–]santarosa2020 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes Dr. Taylor Marshall is excellent! I highly recommend his writings.

Also this article explains more about the feminization of parish life:

We've all got to do our part in making sure masculinity is welcomed back into our parish life.

[–]Rock_Granite -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I very much agree that many churches have been feminizing themselves over time.

My wife goes regularly. I hate it. Although one time her pastor gave a sermon where he encouraged married people to have more sex. He explained that this is something god wants us to do. So I had to give him props for that! Maybe if they preached stuff like that more often they'd get more men to participate.

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow. Awesome advice. Kudos and much respect to you. I would actually consider attending a church that did this.

[–]Nandemodekiru 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

r/RPChristians goes into great detail on this. I’d highly recommend taking a look over there

[–]calky 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am a 42 yo married man so take what I say with that in mind. I belong to a Catholic parish in the Midwest. Here, most youth fall away from the church in college and return when they have kids. Men are somewhat less likely to attend than women but are active with the Catholic school, school sponsored sports, and church social fundraisers.

So my insight is that just because someone is not active currently does not mean that they never will be active. If they were raised in a faith, do not outright reject religion, and attend with family on occasion chances are that they will move back towards the church as they start a family.

[–]lawyercatgirl 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Go to the south. Grew up in Texas and I can definitively say the culture there instills a sense of masculinity very often in men.

[–]Ivabighairy1 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m guessing you live in a large metropolitan city run by Democrats. In those cities most guys are effeminate.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP: hey ladies, where would you go to find a masculine religious guy?

You: writes dissertation that somehow touches on the economy, HR and the workplace, the halo effect, and how gay dancers dress.

Do you not have anyone to talk to in real life?

[–]eatavacado 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not in the Russian community. But, thats the Russian community. They keep to their traditions and are very conservative

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


[–]saiyan-Cycle 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s really interesting how in certain countries church attracts different people, I feel like here in the USA the folk that go to church seem to be very easy going and nice, versus a country like Brazil the devout Christians are really alpha warrior like guys, it could be due to the factions but it’s probably heavily based on culture

[–]TranslatedSky1 Star 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m an atheist but attract religious and conservative masculine men. Not extreme masculine but qualify. They aren’t party types but tend to be those that did well during schooling years while taking on different extracurriculars, so decent social life, and are close with family.

What I’ve learnt instead is that it’s hard to find someone outside the church with conservative views. Which is crucial for me as it’s a dealbreaker if someone is religious or is liberal.

It may just be your church. It depends on the denomination too.

[–]Salsaxat 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a reformed protestant (presby) I have not met many men who are like this. They are mostly extremely traditional and masculine. The roman catholics and orthodox ive met are quite timid and effeminate like you describe though. I think it depends on the denomination.. a lot of roman catholics these days are kind of liberal so I'm not shocked that so many of them seem gay or effeminate

[–]bel_esprit_ 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I definitely noticed effeminate men in my Baptist church growing up.

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The majority of churches I've encountered are fairly leftist in values. Leftists are, inherent in their belief systems, not masculine.

Also, the Catholic Church is a gay- and pedophile-embracing organization. The number of horror stories from seminary schools... the coverups...rampant sexual abuse stories... I have no respect for the Catholic church on a group or individual level.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of young men who get into the Church read their way into it, or are under the impression that it's an easy way to get their submissive waifu, without realizing that they still have to earn respect from Christian women. They do eventually grow up. Most Catholic / Orthodox men I know in their twenties are weak, but most in their thirties onwards are pretty masculine.

[–]blizzyb 5 points6 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Successful masculine men are leaders. Religion requires a man to be a follower.

Masculine men actively push forward into the unknown in spite of fear and possible death. Weak men passively cower in fear of death and the unknown. Religion offers weak men a way out of the scary feelings of death and the unknown.

Successful masculine men see the flaws, inconsistencies, and flat out absurdities or religion through critical analysis. Weak men won't critically analyze religion, they will rationalize it's flaws in order to defend their belief system.

Even if you did find a masculine man who was religious, you would probably find a myriad of other faults in their character that would disqualify them as a suitable partner.

[–]Thorusss 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very on point. It follows that cult leaders should be fairly masculine.

"Why would it follow this priest, if I can connect to God directly and having my own following" Anecdotally women really fall for these guys.

[–]lawyercatgirl 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Completely disagree with this. There is a unique strength it takes to deny yourself to serve God. It permeates every aspect of your life and can make you a wonderful partner, because you choose to honor something bigger than your own self-interests. Plus if there is anything worth following I would say the creator of the Universe may be worth it don’t you think...

[–]poopybirdhead -1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

That’s a really harsh and incorrect box to put a man of God in. If anything, they are followers of the true leader, and therefore they know how to lead their families into stability and safety.

[–]Thorusss 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Strong man will often follow god, agreed. But they will usually NOT follow their local church, with all their tiny politics and made up rules.

[–]blizzyb 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Strong men will see that even though there may be a god outside of themselves, that their life is not dictated by said god. Strong men will realize that for their own life, they are god, or must adapt the idea that they are god in order to create their own destiny.

It's ultimately about being active or being passive, taking responsibility or passing it to someone/something else.

Religion says to follow a set of rules and you will generate passive income/wealth (everlasting life) upon death. No guarantee on a successful life. Ask the higher power for your answers.

Strong men must actively navigate the world in order to generate success/wealth because the future holds no guarantees. These men take responsibility and find the answers for themselves.

[–]lawyercatgirl 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Not sure about you but I would hate to be with a man with a god complex. Gross.

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That's not what they meant. A strong man knows that there is nothing that will save or help him, only himself. That he must be competent and capable because nobody will support him or care if he fails. he must rule his own life and world absolutely, follow nobody elses' lead. He may put his faith in God above, but he must lead his own life.

He is Captain, first and foremost, never a follower, a teammate if necessary but not a follower.

[–]Eosei 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

So what you're saying is... OP should linger outside a seminary more.

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

WOW, Kathy Newman, reading comprehension fail. No. Go places where men are accomplishing things, where they have status based upon ability and leadership. Small business meetings/chamber of commerce, advanced investment broker seminars, etc.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link


[–]LateralThinker134 Stars 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

1 not upset, just annoyed by your unhelpful comments

2 I just gave good advice, no closedmind3dness or irrelevance. You are both derailing, deflecting, and either dense or trolling.

[–]Eosei 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In light of all history it is ridiculous to claim that adhering to religion is anathema to masculine man. Modern practices and churches may be deteriorating, and others have pointed this out by sharing their personal experiences. The problem is not in religious belief or submission to authority of the church, that is a poor, poor diagnosis of the situation we're collectively in.

OP knew what she wanted, men who are committed to their spiritual life, and she had a very precise problem. u/blizzyb shared a histrionic fantasy while demonstrating his own lack of insight and you seconded him, while offering an answer to a question OP was not asking. That's not helpful.

[–]AnarchoNAP 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I was in my early 20s I was in the Catholic Church. I found that the guys my age were more.... silly. They were also disinterested in actual relationships and slept around more than the rest of the surrounding population.

[–]poopybirdhead 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The enemy tries to be everywhere, but he tends to camp out in certain cities or regions to draw in those people like flies to honey. I wouldn’t want to live somewhere liberal/large lgbtq community/feminized. That’s where you will find even straight men behaving a certain way. All the extremely attractive people in my city go to church. Lord forgive me for saying that. 💀

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unless you’re referring to priests, no.

[–]deadliestcat 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the evangelical churches have better men

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I find it a little hard to believe that all the guys in a certain Catholic parish are gay.... Doesn't Christianity explicitly say that homosexuality is a sexual sin?

I'm curious, is this parish a liberal church? Located in some super liberal city area?

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link


[–]Astroviridae 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, I'd say go to a TLM parish like the FSSP for example. Tradcat men tend to take masculinity seriously.

[–]ANIKAHirsch 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re using acronyms I’ve never seen.

[–]Astroviridae 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's more for OP, since she's Catholic. She'll know what they mean.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


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