How I kept my femininity as a female in STEM in college

Jikira · 2020-01-08T10:22:59+00:00

There are more ways to be feminine. That is a strong assumption about your peers. I Majored in computer science with a concentration in cyber security. I personally considered myself pretty feminine in my hobbies. I cook, sew, paint, blah blah blah. I also play video games and love tinkering and building stuff. I don’t necessarily care that is feminine or not because those are things I love to do. I don’t wear makeup although I am good at it and do it for my friends. It’s not because I am trying to be seen as less feminine as I make my own clothes and wear long flowy dresses to work. If you feel isolated do you think the bias you have with your peers could play a role. In college I dressed even more tomboyish because I was extremely poor. There was a super girly girl in my class who was surprised that I could bake when I made a three tiered cake for my friends who made it into google. We became fast friends once she got to know me.

I just want to say in high school I felt very isolated because of the reverse. I was very tomboyish and I went to a school full of very pretty girls who were models, in pageants, and debutante. That being said I felt very isolated, but I realized I was isolated because I held a lot of bias towards them people and didn’t actually try to get to know them. Not saying you have to be friends with your classmates, but being agreeable, humble and understanding is something that will take you far in your future relationships.

Point about being taken serious, in my experience it doesn’t matter how you dress or look. If you are working with someone who doesn’t take women seriously, as long as you are a woman they won’t take you seriously. I say I experience this 50/50. Just let you and your work speak for yourself. Don’t be afraid to stand your ground though when dealing with said person, you may need too especially in cyber security. Lol from my anecdotal experience.

amadexodus · 2020-01-08T05:00:33+00:00

PhD student in computer science here (specifically multiagent systems, machine learning, and game theory). I too am that one feminine lady in my classes and in my office building with the makeup and the dresses and the black boots, and I agree with everything you've said here. I'll add two things though:

First, of course you're going to run into some tech bros who try to approach you just because you're pretty and can talk about gnarly subjects like deep learning or (in OP's case) cybersecurity. Or the awkward shy guys who show up as soon as you're in the graduate lounge but obviously don't know how to approach you after saying "hi." It does happen, believe me. Personally, as long as it's not a professor or a colleague, I could care less.

Second, we are less likely to be taken seriously because we present as more feminine, which is arguably a double standard considering I've met guys in my field who are built like Greek gods, dress to show it off, and never seem to have that issue. I don't care. I'm not going to change. It is my job to know what I'm talking about, be a research beast, and kick ass in my classes. If that's all in place, anybody who chooses to assume I'm dumb or unqualified will learn very quickly that they made a mistake.

teaandtalk · 2020-01-08T02:38:52+00:00

Enjoy it while you can! I think it's important to note that there is a REASON women in STEM downplay their femininity - their fear of not being taken seriously comes from life experience and the advice of mentors. https://magazine.scienceconnected.org/2016/08/women-stem-dont-look-like-scientist/

So, work on changing that if you want. But don't assume their choice is wrong or ill-advised just because it's not what you want to do.

dangernoodle88 · 2020-01-08T21:05:17+00:00

I've grappled a lot with how feminine to present myself in my STEM field (medicine). There is definitely a notion that high maintenance looks means you're lazy and incompetent, because you're spending time on that stuff instead of being a workaholic. And my female colleagues are always gossiping about how so and so is overdressed and tries too hard. It's pretty sad.

And while I would like for the environment to change (feminine =/= weak), I'm not going to be the one to change it. In my career, I'm trying to get myself into the best position possible, not make any sort of political statement. People's subjective impression of you matters way more than we would like to think. It's a hard truth to swallow that your hard work, achievements, contributions, and intelligence don't matter to others as much as they do to you. And of course everyone has a right to "embrace themselves for who they are" but that doesn't mean you are immune to unfair judgment leading to real consequences.

I'm not looking for love at the workplace. I am content embracing my femininity in my personal life, while putting on whatever outfit gets me ahead in my professional life. I'm very early in my career and need to be well liked. Perhaps I'll be less reserved when I'm the boss.

Plus it's not like all women are born 100% feminine. I think everyone has a balance, and using work as my outlet for my masculine traits makes it easier for me to be feminine at home. I like being a decision maker and leader sometimes, and not having a place to do that would be stifling.

I will say that femininity can definitely help in soliciting support from male mentors. I'm not saying sleep your way to the top, but a touch of playfulness/admiration can definitely trigger that protective drive in a man, even in a workplace setting. I've used this to my advantage. Unfortunately the #metoo stuff is making men more cautious about mentoring.

Pola_Lita · 2020-01-08T03:45:42+00:00

The women who have downplayed their femininity actually don’t feel happy in themselves because they’re being something they’re not. They lie to themselves that their masculine like selves is who they actually are but it’s not.

Is this something your classmates confided to you? If so, I don't understand your feelings of isolation.

From my own experience of frequently being the only or one of a very few women in classes and work, I found that what I toned down was anything seductive or sexy. Little makeup, mild scents, hair up or braided, lots of button-downs and tailored clothing; nothing that might encourage objectification. I didn't worry about femininity because that's pretty much part of being female - I'd have to work VERY hard to appear masculine. I think that's a common thing among women.

Buffy_Geek · 2020-01-08T17:18:52+00:00

I have just recently joined this sub so idk how you feel about LGB people but I know lesbians face similar issues. Anyone who resists watering themselves down for the benifit of others deserves respect. In jobs people should be respected for their work ethic & knowledge, not personal interests or appearance.

ATrueLady · 2020-01-08T18:22:56+00:00

I work in a high powered sales career in the construction industry and my overtly feminine self has been very successful. Be confident in what you say and who you are and they will take you seriously. Trust me on this one.

z0mb1equeen · 2020-01-08T13:00:34+00:00

Fellow feminine programmer here! I was also one of the few (or only) feminine girls in my classes. I never cared much other than the fact that it was a bit funny being in a room full of geeks (although I can be a geek in other areas lol). I didn't feel too alone cuz I got along well with my peers. Also can't say I hated the attention and feeling unique.

I think in part these girls are genuinely not as girly and being around so many guys can make you kinda reflect that (it did a bit in me in the way I expressed myself which I am working on now to refine). In the end the only thing that matters is that you like what you do and that you show how good you are at it with your work! That is what earns you respect. I know everyone I meet in my work will be a bit skeptical until I sort of proof myself. But I don't feel like a victim because of this, I just do my work. More often than not, being a female in stem means they are more likely to hire you (which is unfair to men, but it is what it is right now).

In my work life I do tone it down on the sexy a bit like someone else said. Like I feel weird being one of the only pretty girls at work and going in with a skin tight skirt But that's my choice - I feel it can make my coworkers focus on things they shouldn't lol (they are men after all). But in the real world I've met several extremely good tech ladies who are also feminine.

[deleted] · 2020-01-08T17:11:30+00:00

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LateralThinker13 · 2020-01-08T22:59:38+00:00

Reacting as I read.

majoring in cyber security and my college years so far have yet to brainwash me into becoming a full on liberal.

This is likely because you're in STEM. And conscious of it. It's hard to be emotion-based in STEM when computers are literally run on logic; you can't code emotions.

The stereotype for women in my field is that we are not feminine and anti-social.

No, the stereotype is that you're a) geeks, and b) engineer-minded. Neither of these is particularly feminine, but they don't preclude it. Some of the most unfeminine women I know are in Gender Studies.

in a field where many women tone down their femininity

I suspect that women tone down their femininity in STEM because it's a field where, more than any other area, competence is valued over appearance. A woman who is excessively feminine won't be taken seriously because appearance doesn't matter in STEM, demonstrable and measurable results do. Also, because it's read as a play for attention from the men around you and a distraction. No male engineer dresses up for the part.

In my computer related classes, I’m always that girl coming in with my hair done, make up done and wearing feminine clothing that embraces my femininity. Soon, I realized I was the only girl doing so and I started to feel isolated.

It's one thing to flaunt or exaggerate your femininity; quite another to simply flatter it with basic beauty habits.

I took a look at the bigger issue and realized so many women in STEM fields often feel afraid of not being taken seriously, so they downplay their femininity.

Like I said. But this doesn't mean you have to turn it off. Just don't look like you're about to go on a date - or like you're hunting a husband, either.

They lie to themselves that their masculine like selves is who they actually are but it’s not.

See, here is where you lose me. You don't have to act/appear masculine to downplay your femininity. Masculine-Feminine isn't on a perfect sliding scale. Wearing lipstick is feminine; however, not wearing it isn't masculine. See?

I use my feminine beauty as a way to make me feel unique and stand out in the field.

Good for you! As long as your exercise of your femininity isn't taking away from your studies, and you aren't over the top with it, don't be ashamed or downplay it.

Society tells women that femininity is old fashioned and women shouldn’t embrace it.

Well F that. That's not limited to STEM, that's society-wide feminist bullshit. You're here on RPW; you know better.

This is a toxic mindset because women should have the right to embrace themselves in whatever makes them happiest even if it’s not exactly the most feminine. Being feminine to me means freedom.

Sounds like you're on the right path.

cohost3 · 2020-01-08T03:01:17+00:00

I think all you can do is be your feminine self. It may lead to you not being taken seriously, but I think it is a worthwhile price to pay. It is very hard to be feminine in these environments, I feel for you!

Title	How I kept my femininity as a female in STEM in college
Author	danyixa
Upvotes	98
Comments	18
Date	January 8, 2020 2:35 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	/r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/how-i-kept-my-femininity-as-a-female-in-stem-in.305981 https://theredarchive.com/post/305981
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/elm84u/how_i_kept_my_femininity_as_a_female_in_stem_in/