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I applied a bunch of tips from Fascinating Womanhood and other books. Here are my awesome results!

December 6, 2017

Thanks to this subreddit, which led me to the books The Surrendered Single and Secrets of Fascinating Womanhood, my life radically changed for the better. So I wanted to summarize some of the concepts in these books, as well as talk about how I applied these concepts to achieve lovely results :)

But first, a snapshot of the “before me”:

Pretty, loud, hung out with men, drank beers with them and cracked jokes, got into intellectual debates. Sound familiar? The problem wasn’t that I was an overweight, obnoxious feminist. In this day and age, I was a normal girl. Many men asked me out, and my behavior was socially acceptable and encouraged. So I had no idea anything was wrong. Except I couldn’t find a relationship I wanted. For 2 years. I was starting to go “where have all the good men gone,” until I snapped to my senses and circled back to this subreddit.

The vase metaphor that changed my life:

Old saying but I first read it in The Surrendered Single. A vase contains both yin (feminine) and yang (masculine) energy. The structure of the vase is yang, and the void within is yin. The void is able to receive flowers, thus giving the structure’s hardness its purpose.

I would have never conceptualized it like that! In graciously receiving, feminine energy gives purpose and meaning to masculine energy.

Appreciative receiving:

In previous relationships and dating, I felt uncomfortable receiving big gifts or big help. I was subconsciously afraid that I didn’t deserve it, or that if he keeps giving, he’d see our relationship as unbalanced and resent me. In Men are from Mars, the author explains that appreciation is one of the primary needs of “martians” and that in enthusiastically appreciating his gifts, you’re actually making it easier for him to fall in love.

Practice: My new boyfriend found out I make videos as a hobby, and offered to lend me his equipment. Before, I would’ve said “no it’s ok” but instead, I squealed and thanked him. He looked so happy, and he has been finding so many little ways to help me out in daily life.

Subtle receiving:

Before RP, I enjoyed men planning dates and paying for them. I thought I was being feminine, but I completely forgot all the subtle ways of receiving. In The Surrendered Single, the author reminds us to stay relatively quiet on dates so you can receive your date’s entertainment, instead of trying to entertain him yourself.

This was huge! Before, I would get men to laugh, and they seemed to have so much fun on our dates, but only maybe half of them would ask me out again. I never realized that me trying to be entertaining was not only competing with their spotlight (that they want you to admire) but also accidentally conveying low-confidence. I thought it took high-confidence to joke around and “be weird,” but it took another level of self-assuredness for a girl to be comfortable with smiling and staying silent, knowing that it’s the man who has to prove himself to her, not the other way around.

Practice: After reading about this, I smiled at and reacted (“Oh wow!” “Really?” “That’s amazing!” - When I genuinely felt it) to my dates, trusting them to lead the conversation, trusting them to remain attracted to me even if I don’t display my humor and intelligence right now, trusting them to ask me questions if they really want to know. It was really hard at first. I felt so scared of being boring, of being thought of as dumb. But almost everyone wanted a second date, including my now boyfriend :)

STFU: don’t probe:

When I started dating again, my friends and parents wanted me to immediately suss out the career prospects of my dates. I intuitively knew not to do this, and to instead wait for them to reveal it themselves. But sometimes even innocent questions are not innocent to men. In Men are from Mars, the author blew my mind by saying women need caring whereas men need trust. If I share my plan for the future, I WANT people to ask me how I’m going to achieve it. But a man might see excessive questions as you don’t trust him to know how to get there. When I first read about this, along with the “be quiet” thing, I took it overboard. At the end of one date, the man said “you haven’t asked me a single question!” It’s sometimes hard to distinguish between a probing question and a question of genuine interest. I came up with this to help me:

Probing question: evaluates his future potential, evaluates whether his plans will work out, traces the past to find trajectory

Curious question: gets to know who he is right now (like what’s your favorite food?)

Bonus question: if he’s talking about a technical subject that he knows a lot about but you don’t, and you’re somewhat interested, ask him to explain (like how does that work?) and watch him beam!

Practice: I resisted my parents’ nagging and did not ask my boyfriend about his career while dating. I was enthusiastic and accepting when he revealed anything about himself, like saying “sounds like fun!” when he said he plays video games. In no time, he naturally told me about his future career and financial plans. I didn’t probe into their feasibility, I just revealed my excitement for him, because my intuition actually tells me to trust him.

STFU: Not offering help:

Just don’t offer help or advice unless explicitly asked, otherwise you’re sending the message that you don’t fully trust him, which undermines his natural tendency to lead.

Practice: He took me to a restaurant, but it was unexpectedly closed. He apologized, but of course I just smiled and shrugged. He started looking up a different place, but his phone wasn’t working and he complained a bit. Well, my phone was fine, and before RP I would have said “let’s look it up on my phone,” but now I just kept smiling, and leaned my head on his shoulder as we waited. He fixed it quickly and took me to the new place, and he was in a great mood for the rest of the night. This is a minor example but when a man complains about an obstacle, it is NOT an invitation for us to help! It’s maybe subconsciously to make the obstacle seem tougher, so we can praise him even more when he overcomes it ;)

There are also a bunch of other tidbits from the books I've applied, like "would you" vs. "could you" mode of requests (asking for your needs to be met), "girlish" showing of anger and other negative emotions, disclosing feelings and preferences instead of logical reasoning, and had great results! I'm running out of time for now, but I'll try to write about the specifics in the comments. Thanks again to this subreddit for showing me the principles that have made such a difference in my life :)

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Post Information
Title I applied a bunch of tips from Fascinating Womanhood and other books. Here are my awesome results!
Author LeilaintheDark
Upvotes 67
Comments 19
Date December 6, 2017 2:35 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/i-applied-a-bunch-of-tips-from-fascinating.2726
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/7hv075/i_applied_a_bunch_of_tips_from_fascinating/
Red Pill terms in post

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor21 points22 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Overall great. The only part I want to comment on is here:

when a man complains about an obstacle, it is NOT an invitation for us to help!

Of course we can offer our help! We are not there to save him, but we certainly make his life easier. Read this.

But here's the key, you offer once. If he takes you up on it, you're good, if he says "No, I've got it." then you take him at his word. If he changes his mind and wants to take your idea, then allow him to do that. You're there to give him options. Not tell him what to do, or how to solve a problem.

[–]LeilaintheDark[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! Yeah, my statement was a little dramatic. I agree with what you wrote. Definitely if he's doing a task that has many components (for example moving), I would want to help. My go-to is to ask "should I do component A?" I think it's cute because you're showing that you're considerate, but also pretty much asking for his permission. If he says yes, he'll usually start delegating other task components, which I find attractive :)

However, and I'm obviously new to RPW and will probably shift my approach as time goes on, but currently I personally don't like to offer suggestions unprompted, especially regarding a masculine field. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, but it has just never worked for me. I'm a good brainstormer, so when a man tells me his career problem, I naturally see a bunch of possible solutions, but now I don't discuss them unless he asks for my ideas (I do offer empathy and trust though, like "that does sound tough, I feel like you'll overcome this") because he might have also had the same idea, applied it, and found it doesn't work. Plus it's hard to remove the implication that I think I know more about his career field than he does.

It's not about being a doormat though and I absolutely agree with what you wrote about "bring your problem, not your solution." I definitely voice concerns. Instead of saying "you should take me out more" or "we should go out more" I'd say "I want to go out more" and wait for his solution. Now I feel like we're saying similar things just in different wording :)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it's good to keep in mind that this is also what works for you right now. At one month (really up to a year or so in my opinion) in you're really just dating and getting to know each other, even if you are exclusive. So, I think it's smart to play things close to the vest and not overextend with helping him (if not asked), etc. I also think this is an excellent opportunity for vetting. When you give zero input into solving something, what does he do? How does he figure it out? I think this is invaluable information gathering.

Of course, if you stay together this will evolve! If DH was struggling with something and I just sat there placidly smiling he'd probably rush me to the hospital thinking I had a brain injury, lol. But, we've been together over a decade, I know what he likes to do himself and what he hates doing, I can read his body language and facial expressions in a glance, so I pretty much know when he wants me to offer help and when he wants me to make an excuse to get out of his way, haha.

Anyway, great job on your transformation! Glad this is all working for you :)

[–]LeilaintheDark[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! Yes, that's an important thing to keep in mind. I'm definitely applying some of these principles with a heavy hand, because otherwise I might revert to my loud and opinionated self. People like you who've been practicing RP longer, and who've been with their SOs longer have a more elegant and flexible approach - a state I'll strive towards!

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed! Men do appreciate helpful women. They don't appreciate nags.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Wonderful post! In terms of vetting for his future potential, I notice that men who are genuinely interested in you will naturally reveal their plans (just usually not on the first date). They usually want to see how the interaction is with you and enjoy their time with you before slowly revealing their future plans.

It's also generally a good sign if they ask you what you're looking for. I knew my current boyfriend was serious about me from the beginning because after some fun conversations together, he asked me what my next life step was (because I have a solid career and I'm financially stable) and I told him up front I was looking to have a family but was looking for a specific type of man to lead. This made him very interested and we're still slowly getting to know each other but it's a good thing if they ask!

[–]LeilaintheDark[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh that sounds great! Wow you gave such a confident answer to the "what you're looking for" question. My answer was kind of wishy-washy (still learning) but luckily he steered it towards a more serious direction.

It's a bit confusing because I feel like some guys can genuinely like someone, but not reveal plans nor ask what the girl is looking for. I guess it's their personality? Perhaps some women are so feminine that they can naturally make such men become future-oriented, or perhaps not.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It depends on the man and where he is in his life. My boyfriend is 32 and stable job so he's ready for marriage and he knows what he's looking for. I'm 28 and also ready. I did find that when I was younger it was difficult to know men's intentions with me - but probably because I also wasn't ready for marriage (I was still immature in a lot of ways). He was also one of the few men who ever asked me this question. Most will not because they don't have that intention with you. Guys usually look at girls for 1) Fun or 2) Wife. Make sure you know which category he sees you as. If you know that you have good wife qualities (maturity, responsibility) and a lot of guys next you, it's because they are just looking for fun. Guys can totally tell what kind of girl you are by the way you dress and act. They know which girls will be easy to hang out with and which girls require a little more time in getting to know.

For a lot of young relationships, what happens is that you'll have fun together and date each other (because the man is just looking for a good companion) but it will usually come to a point where both will say "where is this going?" or at least you SHOULD have this conversation. If both people don't feel like it's a good match to continue, you need to end the relationship. This is where a lot of young women fail (they continue in a relationship hoping for marriage but realize that the man is perfectly fine just dating and having her company but never saw her as wife material). Men will do this and it's your job not only to vet their marriage quality but also if they had this intention with you in the first place. This to me is the most difficult part of relationships.

[–]LeilaintheDark[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oof, I hear you. My first relationship was from when I was 17 to 21 (he was 23-27) and during these 4 years, it didn't even occur to me to discuss the future.

Very luckily for me, my bf invited me to a wedding in July! Obviously he didn't plan for his friend to be having a wedding, but I feel like that topic will naturally sprout up at such an occasion, and the timeline is pretty convenient. I really need to improve upon my domestic skills :) Also, happy you found someone you're on the same page with!

[–]LaurelWoods934 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I loved reading your field report. You are very detailed and it sounds like you're happy with your results, great job!:)

I've been reading the Surrendered Wife(without telling my husband of course) and I've got to say, all of Mrs. Doyle's suggestions are genius. I'm married and we celebrated our 1 year wedding anniversary last month. We have a traditional relationship and I'm naturally submissive and non-confrontational while he takes the lead. Our relationship is going smoothly and we're both happy, but I'm reading the book to see if I can improve in any areas. Well, I was blown away by her wisdom and it seems to be making us closer with her advice that I've been trying out. The only thing is I'm a brainstormer like you and had suggestions for problems he needed solving. I thought I was being helpful but I probably was more annoying than anything, lol! I didn't realize how much I talked about solving problems until I stopped "helping".

I really look forward to your updates down the road!

[–]LeilaintheDark[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks so much for your kind words! I'm glad Mrs. Doyle's suggestions are improving your already happy marriage :)

Yes, I'm so happy with the results because I really adore him, and I know this relationship would not be like this if I didn't take RPW to heart (based on how my previous relationships were).

[–]patience92 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

He took me to a restaurant, but it was unexpectedly closed. He apologized, but of course I just smiled and shrugged. He started looking up a different place, but his phone wasn’t working and he complained a bit. Well, my phone was fine, and before RP I would have said “let’s look it up on my phone,” but now I just kept smiling, and leaned my head on his shoulder as we waited.

That's great. I would love if a woman did that in this situation. Note that you didn't just trust his ability to solve the problem through being quiet, you offered a physical gesture of submission and respect (your head on his shoulder). That's a powerful way to make a guy feel good.

[–]LeilaintheDark[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for sharing your perspective! I find it interesting that while I purposefully refrained from speaking, I didn't purposefully take on a submissive posture. Now I wonder if by adopting other RPW tips, a woman naturally subconsciously displays more submissive body language :)

[–]patience91 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're on the right track, in my opinion. My belief: submissiveness triggers more submissiveness. Once you chose to show him respect, you felt more respectful. Your body language reflected that.

Your body knows how to do this. However, you have to choose to show him respect in the first place. It doesn't come naturally to women to show that kind of respect to their partner unless he insists on that respect himself.

The chapter in For Women Only about respect is really good.

[–]annbby1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

wow! thank you so much for this. is the "men are from mars" book you're talking about Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus Book by John Gray?

[–]LeilaintheDark[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry for the late reply, yup that's the one! I'm finding it really helpful, especially the chapter in which he recommends requesting with "would you please do x?" instead of "could you do x?" He explains it really well, but it's something like "would you" is a more vulnerable way of asking, and thus more pleasing to the man. I had trouble feeling the difference between the two until John Gray dropped the bomb by saying, imagine if he said "could you marry me?" when proposing!

[–]annbby1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That would be horrible... haha. I found the pdf and am reading it. Thank you!

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Congratulations on your success! It makes me happy to hear it.

[–]Fantat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is useful thankyou. I definitely need to remind myself of the last tip. I have a tendency to take over and then point out all the hard work I did eye roll.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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