I'm feeling depressed about liberalism

GrowlingBears · 2017-01-10T20:26:59+00:00

Traditional life has taken a beating - you just can't beat instant gratification! It depresses me sometimes too. I think we will swing back around as a society at some point. Just hang on...!

UCanHaveTheCrown · 2017-01-10T20:59:51+00:00

I have one child, a son, and with the rise of feminism and man hating that is happening I often feel sorrow for his future and the relationship challenges he will likely face. I especially wonder if by seeing the roles taken in his parents relationship how much more difficult it will be to find a woman he is looking for is he bases his preference off ours.

Willow-girl · 2017-01-11T04:39:55+00:00

1) It is good for women to be able to make their own living. My paternal grandfather ran out on his family in 1927, when my father (the youngest of seven children) was only 2. I can only imagine the hardship my immigrant grandmother must have endured to keep her family together, especially through the Great Depression. It's good for women to have options.

2) I'm opposed to quotas, but if a woman is objectively the best candidate for a job, why shouldn't she get it?

3) Men CAN do these things, but most don't really like it and are happy to have their wives/girlfriends take care of the domestic stuff.

4) I do think there's a tendency toward "the-grass-is-always-greener" syndrome. The paradox of choice probably comes into play as well (i.e., when people have too many options, they become mentally paralyzed and have difficulty choosing, or being satisfied with their choice).

5) Men are more than just ambulatory wallets! Just because a woman can support herself doesn't mean she won't want a good man in her life.

youreallmeatanyway · 2017-01-11T03:23:08+00:00

Women don't have to marry anymore because they can make their own living and choose to make their own life choices.

This I dont necessarily think of as a total negative. It gives women more choice, which is a good thing (albeit confusing for some).

Traditionally minded men have more difficulty marrying nowadays because the economy is in shambles and a lot of high paying jobs are given to single women due to feminism.

Are you talking about gender quotas? Thankfully in the USA this isnt too widespread as of yet (except maybe on the uber-liberal coasts? Or progressive dominated industries).

It's considered prude or old-fashioned to live apart until marriage, and nowadays if you follow this rule you are a specific kind of religion, and if you're not, people think you're ridiculous for thinking this.

To me it is just impractical.

Men can cook and take care of themselves and thus lessens the need for a woman to help out at home. A man really only needs to marry to have children, not for love.

I learned to do my own laundry when I was 10. Worked as a chef for years. I own my home and keep it clean. I can promise you I still need a woman for love.

Both men and women can find temporary companionship easily now.

Yes, though I find temporary companionship very unfulfilling when its done.

Since a lot of women are so financially independent now, traditional men don't know what their purpose is anymore, the one they learned from their fathers.

I sort of agree on this one. Though a RP woman who has a good income of her own still knows how to make her man feel needed.

namaste62 · 2017-01-11T19:00:26+00:00

I'm glad for all of the above, frankly.

I'm glad I can make a great salary like I do and that I don't have to be married to a man I am not attracted to and suck his cock or be homeless. I'm glad I don't have to have children because it is expected of me because being childfree is acknowledged as a lifestyle now. I'm glad that I can live with my boyfriend and we can have sex outside of marriage. I'm glad that I don't have to be a housewife. I'm glad that my boyfriend and I can both contribute to household chores and neither one of us is expected to do all of the cooking and cleaning. I love having social media and meeting people in my interest areas and being able to use it for dating if I'm single. I'm glad my boyfriend is proud of my career and doesn't think it is silly, and I'm glad he's not emasculated by it. I'm glad, again, that my survival and thriving in this world doesn't depend on keeping a man happy or I have to stand for mistreatment and his having a mistress or I'll be homeless and starving.

Think about all of that. You still have a CHOICE to live a so-called "traditional" life. But not all of us want that choice, and having it be the ONLY choice is not something most of us want to return to.

XReverenceX · 2017-01-11T11:49:33+00:00

As a man, I will say you have so clearly conveyed the exact points that I struggle with in my own analyzation and vision of what things have become and are becoming. It leaves you very hollowed when one grasps the entering of the gloomy picture.

There is an Extreme rarity of both men and women whom desire the opposite and far more positive side of every point you made, (pure traditionalism).

I find myself just as you said telling myself "there is no reason to get married, I don't want kids, I only want a wife. However in today's society there are no women whom want to be a WIFE more than a mother or just want provision and comfort post wall. Marriage is for kids nowadays, not to build an intimate relationship, and enjoy a higher quality of life with another person."

The ambition and purpose in men is failing for we do not perceive to have anything "out there" to be ambitious for. The prize of our labor was never about money or "things." It was a wife whom you cherish by your side. Whatever it took to get that we would do. Nothing can take the place of a woman in a man's life with virtue and character. This is a universal truth to all men of good heart and mind.

Nonetheless as I have stated above, you nailed it on every single point. Well done.

Rommel0502 · 2017-01-11T05:04:24+00:00

Feminism has gotten almost exactly what it has asked for. The result? Single parent families are becoming the norm, the nuclear family has been almost completely dismantled, and by almost any metric women in general are more unhappy than ever.

As long as it continues to buy votes, more of this is going to happen. People just need to realize it for the failure its been.

bowie747 · 2017-01-11T10:05:30+00:00

It's refreshing to hear a woman having these thoughts, lots of men I know are having them too. They're common on this sub of course.

On the positive side I feel like society is pushing back against liberalism, because many of us can see it is destroying our intersexual dynamics and therefore harming the family unit, which is the foundation of a successful society.

Despite technological advances and the subsequent lack of need for each other, men and women still have their biological polarities which attract us to each other. No amount of technology will ever replace that soft femininity which is so warm and welcoming. Red pill is about remembering these qualities and accentuating them, so that maybe we can have with each other what our parent's parents had.

There's plenty of men out there (myself included) looking for a more traditional relationship. Perhaps not 1700s style, but ~1950s style would be nice. A friend of mine confided in me that the reason his gf fell for him is because he replied to texts when he saw them, instead of waiting for days. That was refreshing. It is hard to find a high quality woman with a reasonable amount previous partners, but we'll keep our eyes and ears peeled.

SouthernAthena · 2017-01-13T01:08:39+00:00

This depresses me a lot too. However I think conservatism is having a renaissance. At least I hope so. I like to read the website Return of Kings (surprising, I know. It is RP) because much of the site focuses on traditional values, relationships, and fostering masculinity. That and coming here to RPW and hearing the perspective of you lovely ladies!

Gardrothard · 2017-01-10T20:59:47+00:00

Destruction of patriarchy and emergence of matriarchy that ends up being replaced by patriarchy again is just how things always went in history. On the bigger time scale, this is just a natural thing like change of seasons.

A new idea is born out of the brain of many people, but only a few have the skills and influence to spread it. As the idea starts to spread it's good and beneficial for most because it's still pure and contained within a smaller group of more intelligent and idealistic people. But soon, like some kind of virus it starts eating its host. More people jump on the train because of conformism (and their intelligence is lower (which is what made them prone to conformism in the first place) and motives aren't that pure) which starts to turn this into more toxic and selfish thing. Soon enough, the idea has consumed the population to the point that people start feeling it's futile to work against it and they try to "enjoy the destruction" or even further push it to have their agendas met. And then, someone else comes along, comes up with something else and some new idea starts spreading through society once again. Some come out of it alive, some not (figuratively or not).

Like summer and winter, both are too hot/cold, the good times are those in transition, they aren't stable states. So that chase will go on forever, from hot to cold blaming the winter or summer and asking for the other one that's not present.

Look at any idea - capitalism, christianity, feminism, socialism, sexual liberation or whatever else. And we keep fighting over this or that idea, when the real problem is that we are just carriers of ideas, infected by them as if they were some virus. The ideas are fighting between themselves, not people. Just like viruses, they don't care about their host's life, they only need the host to spread them further.

Feminism has it's faults, but do not kid yourself thinking that patriarchy is much better. I grew up in patriarchal culture. Girls go to schools and chase carriers too, but not because they are liberated, but because their parents tell them "You need to have a job so that you don't need to stay with a husband who's abusive because you have nowhere to go". You fix one problem and you get another one. And if you don't get it, then you come up with it yourself. That's how people work. That's the problem, not that this or that idea is better or worse. It just depends on where you are. A hot day seems like the best thing in the winter, and when that day comes, after a while people long for the snow. Just sit down and watch the show and try to find humor in things.

dunamis_energeia · 2017-01-10T21:04:02+00:00

I agree with every point you make, but it's not just hard for "traditional men", for "traditional women" the same happens.
Not sure if you are american or not but it seems odd to me that you mix all the bad things that happen with "liberal" values. For what I know it is not the case at all. I mean, if you are talking about the first liberal views, such as the classical english schools, like Locke and Rousseau, yes, youa re right, but today those view are what you would call libertarianism.
Could you elaborate more in what liberal politics has to do with it?

nonthaki · 2017-01-11T08:02:10+00:00

You have got it wrong . Its all your choice . You are victimizing yourself .

neveragoodtime · 2017-01-11T06:07:20+00:00

1) Women don't have to marry anymore because they prefer to make their own living and choose to make their own life choices. Compromise is hard.

2) Traditionally minded men have more difficulty marrying nowadays because their are very few women that are worth the 50% chance of divorce. 2 of 3 that are initiated by the wife.

3) It's considered prude or old-fashioned to live apart until marriage, and nowadays if you follow this rule you are a specific kind of religion, and if you're not, people think you're ridiculous for thinking this. Women don't like to be considered ridiculous, so they will move in with any guy who asks.

3) Men could always cook and take care of themselves. Women used to offer to do this for men in exchange for love, family, and children.

4) Due to social media and the Internet, it's easy for women to find friends, hook-ups or relationships. That means there's less incentive to stay with one man for the rest of your life, when so many men are giving her attention online.

5) Since a lot of women are so financially independent now, they don't recognize a value to partnering with a man. They equate money with power and relationships are about giving up power to another.

You make some valid points here about the difficulty for women to maintain a traditional lifestyle. I'm sure it's unfair to place all the blame on women ( men have a different set of problems ), but when I look closely at the issues you raise, they are all rooted in what women have available to them now. Good men are now so abundant that a woman can't see any value in a single one. The second her man disagrees with her she remembers that her tinder inbox is full. And that option is always available to her, until, sadly it's not. And in all that time she has never learned how to add value to another person's life, because abundant men have always been competing to add value to hers. And the world we find ourselves in is one where women have rejected the difficult path of preparing to be a wife and mother for one family.

ElfFey · 2017-01-12T04:48:24+00:00

I agree with everything you wrote. If you don't mind I'd like to post my thoughts.

1) Women don't have to marry anymore because they can make their own living and choose to make their own life choices.

A lot of posters point out that this isn't a bad thing, BUT a long time ago somebody on here asked "Can women be MGTOW?" and I responded that modern women are WGTOW, because of feminism. It was a long post but here you've basically summed it up in one line.

2) Traditionally minded men have more difficulty marrying nowadays because the economy is in shambles and a lot of high paying jobs are given to single women due to feminism.

Not to make this political but I think this is why Trump won. My parents (immigrants to US) always said, "There will never be a revolution in America, until people can't feed their families." Well it's not quite at that level, but it is at the level that men can't have families due to the economy.

3) It's considered prude or old-fashioned to live apart until marriage, and nowadays if you follow this rule you are a specific kind of religion, and if you're not, people think you're ridiculous for thinking this.

Yes! How has it become weirder nowadays to not live together before marriage??? If you're living together shouldn't you be, you know, married? Everyone thinks I'm weird.

3) Men can cook and take care of themselves and thus lessens the need for a woman to help out at home. A man really only needs to marry to have children, not for love.

I recently ran into this problem practically with the guy I was dating. He kept taking me out for dinner, which I appreciated, but tbh I would rather cook and I was starting to feel guilty about the $$$. My mom cooks dinner for my dad almost every night, and I would be happy doing the same for my partner. He laughed me off, "I eat out every meal." This skill I have is one he doesn't need (or at least, doesn't appreciate.)

4) Due to social media and the Internet, it's easy to find friends, hook-ups or relationships. That means there's less incentive to stay with the same person for the rest of your life. Both men and women can find temporary companionship easily now.

There also isn't as much social stigma over breakups, cheating, etc.

5) Since a lot of women are so financially independent now, traditional men don't know what their purpose is anymore, the one they learned from their fathers.

Existential crisis.

6) With women being so independent, men lost the need and urge to protect them. If you're not an independent woman, you're mocked for not being able to fend for yourself, and men are brainwashed into thinking they want a woman just as successful as them. So if you're not an interesting and ambitious woman, your SMV is lower.

It ties into your first point, and a lot of the responses. I think there is no way out of it except to be ambitious, even career-oriented yourself, (I'm not and I realized I sort of fake it by working with kids and animals.) More than ever men need to see you have a life outside of him and are not waiting on him. The problem is, it's not really fulfilling to what feminine women actually desire. It is definitely not conducive to the captain/first mate model of relationships.

On the other hand, two working couples is the norm for most people throughout history, as most people are poor. The problem imo is that now society has tagged on this "I don't need no man!" attitude to a working woman. Well, men were never supposed to be there just to financially support you.

prettylittledictator · 2017-01-16T23:21:14+00:00

I make my own living and decided to get married cause I want to be a stay at home mom. And no, I don't feel obligated to suck my husbands dick to have a roof over my head, I'm very capable of making my own money and even one day will be the bread winner. :)

Bamfmaiden · 2017-01-11T02:33:59+00:00

Yet no one is happy. Divorce and infidelity are rampant. People are generally angry and dissatisfied!

Maybe because they are working so hard to deny our own nature!

vanBeethovenLudwig · 2017-01-11T10:59:06+00:00

a lot of high paying jobs are given to single women due to feminism

Quotas are terrible thing, I agree with this. I came across this when I was in the UK. I had no idea there were quotas until I started to work there. I found a place where I wanted to work because I liked a lot what they were doing but I thought it was a bit out of my league (as in, I knew I could handle the work but it was a very reputable place and I was new so it was almost too good for me). But I still got a meeting with the boss and actually got a contract. Right on the first day I went for lunch with my new coworkers and found they were all like "oh ok you're from overseas, I get it" and soon I found out there was a group of female immigrant workers who didn't contribute at all to the group but were tolerated by everyone because they had to be there to fill the quota.

I thought were I just hired because of this? who am I kidding of course I was but I figured I could beat it when I actually work and have results which I have to say did work. A lot of people were friendly, some people still told me things like "there is a lot of talented people in the UK but the management is forced to hire people like you to fill the quota" as if I could do something about that. I still left and went to a more unregulated, meritocratic industry.

In my view quotas are such a nonsensical thing, it is just adding another layer of hassle to figure out if a person is for real or just another system freerider.

I don't think however that having a good income is something that should hurt the relationships. I don't think the basis of the relationship should be that the woman is cornered, it's more like that both sides benefit more when they are together than they would when they were alone, no?

lidlredridinghood · 2017-01-11T16:56:18+00:00

I can only offer my personal context...

I'm never going to live with my Captain. I also don't want children. But we both want the type of connection, trust and juiciness that comes from having trusted and loved each other for years. We make a great team; he decides where we're going, he does part of the work, and I clean up around the edges, making it look nice. I have a career- I'm aiming to make about 60K; which is topping out in my career... so I'll be able to put away some for retirement, but it's understood that property ownership is going to becoming from "his" wealth. However, we very intentionally take good care of ourselves, and are constantly courting each other. We never stop showing the other how much we love and admire each other. And we're both constantly trying to figure out how to have better sex. It's pretty great.

What I'm saying is... I appreciate what you're saying about SAHMs, and the demise of the being a kept woman. But RP is totally applicable to modern life. Personally, I prefer having my own cash, and my own place.... because then I choose to be with him whenever I do. It keeps the magic alive more.

The "old" way of living may be dying out, in some areas. But I think there's a synergy between new and old that allows for increased safety and functional codependence that is a sweet spot.

[deleted] · 2017-01-12T06:55:30+00:00

I'm not 100% pro traditionalist but I think there are aspects of it that are healthy for some or the majority of heterosexual romantic relationships. Dating seems messed up. I think what will help is women understanding that they are most attractive in their 20's (even though they can still date later on), that its scientifically best to have a kid in their 20's or early 30's (as far as I remember), and that being a single mom or hurting your looks with drugs will decrease your dating pool. I don't care about having kids, but I also heard somewhere that men also have a probability of making healthier babies when they are younger.

And men and women need to figure out that LTRs generally have better, more emotionally-engaging sex, less drama, and more happiness, and there needs to be more information about how to have a long-lasting LTR and how to be a parent without ruining the relationship or the kid (which goes along with attachment theory). There needs to be more blunt understanding and curiosity about gender differences along with more awareness around parental alienation and men's issues. As a millennial I'm extremely disappointed in my generation, but it is what it is, the only rational thing to do is focus more on solutions regardless of how massive the problems are.

Moral_Gutpunch · 2017-01-26T00:34:28+00:00

Except for #2, these all work IN THEORY. Humans may not be monogamous evolution wise, but they are known for pair bonding and forming extremely close social bonds that way (I'm not excluding gays). Most adult humans will want to at some point in their life.

As for marriage, I do feel it's been ruined economically for several reasons. Too much stress is put on spending money for the wedding and on children (I'm not saying you can't do either of shouldn't, I'm saying getting pushed into them by pressure is wrong). Money, children, and not feeling happy having to appreciate and support their man are the biggest factors of divorce.

This doesn't mean marriage can't work, it means a lot of so called feminists confuse marriage (or a long-term loving relationship) with a wedding and honeymoon.

Title	I'm feeling depressed about liberalism
Author	vanBeethovenLudwig
Upvotes	42
Comments	87
Date	January 10, 2017 8:24 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	/r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/im-feeling-depressed-about-liberalism.2512 https://theredarchive.com/post/2512
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/5n7fiw/im_feeling_depressed_about_liberalism/