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Living together vs living apart

vanBeethovenLudwig
February 6, 2018
28 upvotes
/r/RedPillWomen

It's common for modern couples to live together as boyfriend and girlfriend, to "try it out" and assume that if all goes well, he'll end up proposing. They're already living like a married couple but minus the legality, so he finally upgrades it.

It's also common for modern couples to live together, girl is basically taken advantage of (offering milk for free without buying the cow), and realizes that he will never make her his wife. She has to make the choice to leave.

How come sometimes it does work out to live together prior to marriage and sometimes it doesn't?

If you had a daughter, what advice would you give her regarding this choice?

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Post Information
Title Living together vs living apart
Author vanBeethovenLudwig
Upvotes 28
Comments 30
Date February 6, 2018 11:51 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/living-together-vs-living-apart.2757
https://theredarchive.com/post/2757
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/7vrto0/living_together_vs_living_apart/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I honestly don't know what sets couples apart when it comes to living together before engagement. I live with my boyfriend and he brings up marriage frequently, but I believe there's several factors that have contributed to this openness and willingness.

  1. We were long-distance before taking the plunge to move in together, so I think the stakes were high from the get-go.

  2. We openly discussed our expectations for the future, as well as what responsibilities we wanted to take on before moving in together.

  3. We have a "team" mentality. We don't pit our contributions to the household against one another. We are both important, and we are both valued. Feeling appreciated by your partner breeds trust and love.

For us, it works. For others, I don't know. I'm not sure if I would recommend it to my future daughter or not. I think there's a lot to be learned from it, but it certainly depends on the maturity level of both partners as well as how realistic their initial expectations are.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is great

[–]Jikira14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have a saying if "A guy wants what he wants" If he doesn't want to get married, it doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter if you live with him, sleep with him, or even if you are a unicorn. What matters is finding a guy who life plans align with yours. I will tell my daughter to look for a guy who wants the same things out of life and then go with what feels natural for their relationship.This ideology is why I vetted guys like crazy.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point, the vetting of intentions before moving in together is important. I'm sure plenty of women move in without knowing the intentions of the man, and perhaps also out of convenience.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star15 points16 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

How come sometimes it does work out to live together prior to marriage and sometimes it doesn't?

I would say the answer to this question is no different than the answer to the question of "how come some relationships work out and others don't?"

Living together brings along new challenges. It might make him or her realize that they don't like how much the other snores. Maybe they don't like their daily hygiene routine. Maybe they don't like their level of messiness. Maybe they don't like little quirks that they didn't notice prior to moving in, like how they leave the TV on, when they sleep or something. Maybe they thought there would be more sex. Maybe they don't like that actually going on dates is a lower priority since they see each other every day anyway. maybe he doesn't realize how long your hair and makeup routine lasts. Maybe you won't like how he leaves the seat up.

There are countless reasons why it does or does not work, but I think that regardless, if you're considering moving in with someone you should clarify to that person that the intention behind it is to get you closer to marriage. There should be no grey area with that unless that is not your intention.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Seems like all the minor annoyances you're pointing out are not real reasons to leave... you just get disenchanted with your partner and the meaning of those things starts to inflate.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree. I think if a couple breaks up because "she takes too long to get ready in the morning" or because "he watches too much TV after he comes home from work," that's ridiculous. Your relationship is not strong enough then, if these sorts of minor annoyances are enough to leave...

Marriage is about working through problems together, not leaving because something small bothers you.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

One of these little things won’t be enough to break up any normal couple, but a combination of enough of these little things could be.

Marriage is about working through problems together, not leaving because something small bothers you.

In your question, the couple is not married yet.

[–]ayogyrh1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I completely agree! These are valid reasons to end a relationship. They expose certain characteristics of a person. Perhaps the binging of TV relates to introversion and not compatible with someone who just wants to talk all day. Or being consistently late shows a lack of respect for your time.

Living together exposes these differences and allows the pair to adjust their lifestyle to their partner's or leave and continue their own lifestyle. Not addressing these and just dealing with it could create resentment over time(or you adapt and accept). Everything is a give and take. What is insignificant to one is a mountain to another.

[–]NYCTrumpette6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do some relationships work while others don't? Hard to say.

On the advice side, I would not want my daughter to live with a significant other before marriage. You can sleep over but keep your own space. It's important to have that little bit of freedom when you are single. Also moving in right before or after marriage will feel more special.

[–]DoctorNini5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

In my opinion, it's a certain type of man that will stay with a woman because it is nice and convenient even though he doesn't want to marry her, while knowing this is her goal.

I didn't move in with my now husband until after he had made it very clear what his intentions with the relationship were. If he hadn't done this, not only would I not have moved in with him, but I would have broken up with him as well.

Men are simple creatures who know what they want and don't change their mind quickly. If he doesn't want to marry you after a year of dating, he never will. And I wouldn't recommend moving in with a man before a man of dating, so if you just take that time to vet and figure him out, you'll be fine.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

In my opinion, it's a certain type of man that will stay with a woman because it is nice and convenient even though he doesn't want to marry her, while knowing this is her goal.

Agreed. It shows you the type of man and his (lack of) moral character to essentially take advantage of a woman without wanting to marry her (staying with her because it's convenient but no intention of wifing her).

Men of high moral character will also let you know their intentions right from the beginning. I finally realized this when my current interest asked me what I was looking for, when we met. It was a shock in comparison to most men who say "let's see what happens."

Men are simple creatures who know what they want and don't change their mind quickly. If he doesn't want to marry you after a year of dating, he never will.

This is why I don't understand couples who live together for years and years, and sometimes it does end in marriage and sometimes it doesn't. It just seems so risky to me. I don't know how it works TBH.

[–]DoctorNini0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The last past I completely agree with. Mostly, I don't understand why women would put up with that..

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately it's so common to cohabit before marriage and because of the success stories, women think it will end up in marriage, but just not always.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

If you don't mind a little diversion from a guy; I'd like to understand the free milk perspective. If you're splitting the rent and bills equally, then both are getting equal benefit right? If the guy is paying most or all of the housing/living costs, then he's paying for the milk. Under which scenario would you characterize it as free milk?

Regarding the OP, it's kind of like when friends are shocked that they don't make good roommates. Living together expands the scope of coordination needed by a ton. To add to those listed by WhatIsThisAccountFor, stuff like routines, punctuality habits, etc in aggregate can greatly affect the attraction level.

[–]mytrpaway4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you're splitting the rent and bills equally, then both are getting equal benefit right?

One additional cost is time. If one part of the couple is spending time vetting the other for marriage, while the other part of the couple is content with the relationship, then in a sense there is an unequal benefit. One person is living in their ideal relationships state. One person is paying time for a result that will never materialize.

If the guy is paying most or all of the housing/living costs, then he's paying for the milk. Under which scenario would you characterize it as free milk?

If your reference point is casual dating than your implication is correct: it's not free milk. If your reference point is a traditional marriage with a stay-at-home mom, then in a sense the woman is providing the marriage experience without being "paid" the marriage.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women can also string guys along though I see from op's pov how it's free in this case with marriage in mind and not being certain the guy has the same goal.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you don't mind a little diversion from a guy; I'd like to understand the free milk perspective. If you're splitting the rent and bills equally, then both are getting equal benefit right? If the guy is paying most or all of the housing/living costs, then he's paying for the milk. Under which scenario would you characterize it as free milk?

From a RPW point of view, marriage as a commitment is our goal, so living together (woman gives him her company and sex) without the woman securing marriage is putting herself at risk. She needs to demand him to pay MORE for the milk, if that makes sense.

I have never cohabited but I have had past boyfriends offer for me to live with him under his roof, and TBH it's not that high of a price for him to pay living costs and me to live with him without marriage. Plenty of women get used and dumped this way.

Anyways, it does work out sometimes (as per the post) that things go well living together and building a life together and ending up in marriage, but for me personally I don't function this way. I'm not prepared to play wife to someone who didn't make me his wife in her first place.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As to the question of testing how well cohabitation would work, have you taken extended vacations together?

[–]BewareTheOldMan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

On living together/cohbitation:

-Advantage and the win goes to the man. Assuming she's a good "wife," his disadvantages are minimal. Overall loss goes to the woman...but sometimes it works out.

Taking a chance on "sometimes" is a huge risk - especially during prime years.

[–]Nessunolosa3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am married and we lived together beforehand. It wasn't a choice at first; his apartment through his job was finished with it's one year contract and we still had a month in country before I could leave (we live and work abroad).

It was the right time anyway, and I'd flip your questions about it around to say that marriage is not a Band-Aid that will save you if it just isn't right to begin with.

[–]WonderfulandValuable4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. Do not live together with someone without having lived independently for at least a year.

  2. Do not move in with someone. Search a new flat together and make it a home for both of you!

  3. Set a fixed date for marriage before searching a flat.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've done both. I still don't know how to explain what to do to my future kids.

First time, I didn't live with him due to my religious beliefs. He was very chivalrous, polite, and supportive. I fell in love, and we got married. After TRYING to do everything right, and sitting through very expensive sesssions with multiple couples counselors (who got mad that he wouldn't respond at all)...I just accepted that he was gay and would never want to sleep with me. That also meant I would never have even a chance at children with him, along with other more private risks. I decided to move on.

Second time around, I lived with him first. He was the sweetest thing ever and a great man. We've been happily married for years.

I still don't know that I would recommend living with a man first. I don't necessarily recommend it to girlfriends, especially if they're still not married at my age (30s). I've just found that it's usually because they've had a long list of "bad boys". If they live with those guys first, they get walked all over and get no respect in return.

[–]Aragorns-Wifey1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do have daughters and would never recommend they live with a man outside of marriage.

Statistically women who live with men before they marry them are more likely to divorce. There are probably other factors at play like more religious people wouldn’t live together first and might be more opposed to divorce as well.

I lived with mine way back before I married him and I believe he values me less for it but couldn’t prove it of course.

[–]CatisMyOverlord1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If I had a daughter, or son, I'd say don't count on getting married. Not everyone does. Not everyone wants children. Quite a few of my friends didn t get married (I'm old, never wanted kids).

I think living apart keeps everyone on their best manners.

Get a good career going. Be 100% self sufficient, always. Get savings and retirement going early... Relationships are bonus...

Why marry? You can be divorced at any time? Nothing secure there.

Insurance & SS benefits? We'll get those eventually with domestic partner laws. But those are valid reasons for both sexes, especially with kids.

[–]ayogyrh 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This whole "why marry" question is one I struggle with myself. We discuss it but then we ask "but what would change". My SO sees marriage (the legal agreement) as pointless because of how commonplace divorce is these days and I really have no point against that.

The only marriage I ever witnessed was of my grandparents who stayed together for the money, not for love or even any kind of friendship. My grandfather loathed my grandma, I think due to him regretting tying himself down to her when he was so young. My SOs parents had a shotgun wedding and are more in love now than in the beginning. They are lower income compared to my grandparents and they are together for each other, not just their kids or money.

It's so odd how it seems to be a coin toss really.

[–]CatisMyOverlord1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep... hardly any of my younger friends are doing it, anymore.

I'm often surprised when I hear an engagement announcement.

[–]GreenTeaOnMyDesk-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why would a man voluntarily commit to a depreciating asset?

[–]ChiNadesler0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wife/gf googles and other factors as well

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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