Men "settle"

TankVet · 2017-04-10T12:06:42+00:00

Attraction isn't limited to physical appearance. One of the "hottest" women I know is actually an awful human being who I seek to avoid completely. While she has physically attractive assets, her personality is terrible and her character repugnant. The latter two factor heavily into long term attraction and, perhaps more significantly in this discussion, my happiness with a relationship.

I'm happier and healthier and better off if I pick a better woman for me than if I pick the hottest woman I know. So in that sense I'm not settling.

vanilleexquise · 2017-04-10T14:07:45+00:00

I don't think "settling" is necessarily a bad thing. A couple of years ago I read the book Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough, which talked about all of the silly parameters people (with emphasis on women) set for loving someone.

Even here, on a subreddit about seeing the reality of our situation, I see women talk about how he has to be x feet tall, even defending that stipulation by arguing with the fact that less than 15% of the population is above 6 feet. I see men do the same. They want a woman with a heart of gold, the body of Miss America, and the sexual attitude of a porn star. Each sex argues their point by claiming the other does it too, and everyone misses the real point that this is why they can't find a mate of value.

So, yes, I think we all settle. I would love for my fiance to be six feet taller and have a full head of hair, but once I realized I had to trade those things that don't matter for the things that do, I was much happier. I'm sure he'd love it if I were thinner and didn't have stretch marks, but he couldn't have it all either. We need to take the stigma out of settling. It's just facing reality.

famously · 2017-04-10T09:39:45+00:00

You could look at it this way. Or you could see them as looking at more than one dimension of an entire person (looks being one, personality the other) and then finding the max, cumulative value. It's a little like D&D. Of course, the number and types of dimensions are for each of us to choose.

SexistFlyingPig · 2017-04-10T13:57:13+00:00

If your only value is sex/being hot, then you're a rapidly depreciating commodity. A 6-7 with a good personality will be someone who will support you when you're down. That's worth more than 1 year of hot sex and a lifetime of hell.

cynicalhousewife · 2017-04-10T17:26:57+00:00

I don't know where people in the red pill get this idea that there are loads of 8s, 9s and 10s walking around. Really, how many women are supermodels? I suppose in an area where people are very wealthy, and women have money to have procedures done ect but in most regular communities you are not going to find that many stunningly beautiful people. To answer your question, I think men have different standards. I think conventional attractiveness obviously matters a lot to some men, to the point where they won't compromise on it. Others are at the opposite end of the spectrum. They have way lower standards of what passes the boner test. Men also have varying tolerance levels when it comes to women's behavior. If they didn't my 300lb bad tempered, highly strung sister would not have a doting husband who sleeps on the couch. Still, I don't think that's a reason for people to treat others badly, but I see plenty of women get away with it.

vanBeethovenLudwig · 2017-04-10T20:03:10+00:00

My wife doesn't have 2 physical traits that I wanted in a spouse. You could say that I settled. However, she possesses qualities that I never considered. these qualities have made our marriage strong for the 10+ years.

It is obvious that I didn't know everything I needed in a spouse. She is truly God's gift to me.

If she leaves me, I am going with her.

loneliness-inc · 2017-04-10T14:08:17+00:00

A man who chooses a woman who thinks the world of him is not settling for less. Not one iota. This trait is way more important than looks to most men. (As important as looks are...)

TheLaughingRhino · 2017-04-11T12:50:34+00:00

A lot of people are just plain mean. Unfortunately a large subset of that group are women, partially because most understand that there is a clear double standard in terms of how society tolerates men versus women.

Chris Rock said it best, most men understand there are certain lines you don't cross and things you don't say, unless you want to fight. At some point, guys will start punching each other. However women can often be as vicious as they like, and men just have to sit there and take it. Can you walk away? Yes, but often life has obligations. You can't just walk away all the time at work. Or your best friends wife going nuts on you. Or your sister. Or the lady at church who is best friends with your aunt. I suspect this is why there is the trope about the uncomfortable family Thanksgiving dinner, where tensions are high and lots of people hate each other. Obligation and proximity are bad mixes for peace of mind.

People wear "masks" every single day. There's the real person underneath, and sometimes it's just a good person, inside and out. Then there are some who are just plain vicious and entitled, but pretend to be civil human beings, until they don't get what they want, or hear No, and then the mask falls off face.

This 2nd type, this is the kind of woman no man wants to marry. Obviously the prettier she is, the more she can get away with this behavior with most people and most men.

Do men "settle"? I think since most men are forced to pursue and most men are in the 80-85 percent who struggle to get any female attention, then most men just take what they can get. Most don't have a ton of choices. The work factor is different too. You want to keep a woman, its ALOT of work as a guy. You are often in a position if you want regular sex and some semblance of peace, you have to "manage her expectations" In doing so, a calm and gentle and nurturing woman is a much much more desirable situation.

The "contrast" is very jarring as well. If you meet a truly feminine and nurturing woman, it's such a shock sometimes, because so many are just plain vicious and entitled ( I'm not saying all men are peaches either, most of them are scum too in my book) There are good people, but to see their value, the contrast has to be sharp most of the time. There is a lot of "non quality" out there, and I'm not talking about SMV issues.

Sometime a guy discovers as he gets older, that unattractive women can be just as, sometimes moreso, unpleasant as a pretty one. There are a lot of women who are socially seen as physically unattractive who are just plain mean. And angry. And bitter. And that mask falls off fast too. Most men think , if I am going to have to jump through hoops no matter what I do, why not for a pretty girl?

I suspect the MGTOW movement is not quite completely validated by many women because I don't think many women have come to terms that some men cannot get over their base irritation with most of the women they meet. ( And who am I kidding, there are probably women here who want to say, Screw this, to men and dating and relationships)

Best advice to anyone, see a relationship candidate under heavy stress. Under duress and hard times. When the mask falls off, what do you see. If it's the same nurturing and caring and kind person, that's gold right there. A guy will marry that person if he understands her value.

Sadly, I think most men date and marry for "their own desires" and more women are going to factor in how being with that guy makes her look, how he helps her value, how he shapes the world's perception of her. I think that's part of why status is such a huge marker for women. If a guy of high status who could pick anyone picks you, it validates that you are special and it validates it against every female rival, every woman who jilted you, every negative thing you heard or believed about yourself. Most men I think just want blowjobs and steak. While most men will show aversion to very heavy women in public, I suspect most will just not care much about status as the same marker. Beauty yes, but the other status elements are usually disposable.

The higher your status as a guy, the longer and stronger most women will hold that mask up. I don't think it's a question of better quality in most cases, I just think it's a question of how much value you have to the other person, and if it's worth it to them to hold that mask up longer. I think this is where a lot of anger comes in with feminism, it's a system where the mask drops, if it's even put up at all, and you can still get what you want ( half the money, the house, the kid, carousel, etc)

I have met a few women I think are genuinely "sweet" people. Just good and kind people. Most though, I see, will turn on you once they don't get what they want when they want it. Most men don't see it though, they think many women are "sweet" but it's just focused restraint because the tradeoffs are too high right then and there. And usually women like that, they resent you for their choice of holding back or they consider you in their debt for actually being civilized.

Good people are truly truly truly hard to find. Embrace them when you do find them. Fat, tall, short, wide, blue, red, purple, Martian, honestly, at some point, who gives a shit. If you fill your life with good people, truly good people, good things will happen for you. I truly believe that.

ReddJive · 2017-04-10T17:40:22+00:00

It goes back to the a foundational message of RP in general. One, like many, that get buried and uncovered once in a while.

For whatever the reasons we are no longer taught how to pick our mates/relationships.

I grew up in the "old world". My grandparents immigrated to the US from the old country. I grew up in a cultural ghetto as they were affectionately called back then. Good times, masculinity, femininity dripped from walls. I could tell some pretty funny stories of my grandparents.

I ignored much of what my dad and grandfather said. Now I shake my head, they were right. All this... is right. Spot on. It was instinct with my grandparents and the men in my family. Just how it was done.

I was once asked is sex and a hot looking girl all a man wants from his relationship. I said no. though sex is top of the list, and will not likely come off the top spot, the other things: how she adds to his life. How she stimulates his mind, creative endeavors, supports his mission and goals. She just knows what to do, how to support...it's just there.

As I see it...it's yin and yang. they can survive apart. Functional well separately, but together they are a greater whole acting in unison for better harmony.

hard to achieve? Yes. we are no longer taught this by our parents. This is why the mentoring on RP forums is important.

youreallmeatanyway · 2017-04-10T13:01:09+00:00

According to this theory, doesn't this mean men also "settle" for the "beta-type" woman who adores him, when he would actually prefer the 8-9 because they're more attractive?

If attractiveness was the only criteria for long-term partnership then yes, this would be an example of settling. But we all know that there is more a man or woman chooses than simple hotness.

Therefore I dont see this as "settling" but more of a process of maturation of the priorities and criteria an man uses in mate selection.

Shaela90 · 2017-04-10T10:50:33+00:00

I believe both men and women learn to 'settle' after a major disappointment, either in other people or in themselves. When we`re young, we think we can have the world at our fingertips, but that is not always the case.

Time and time again I see, among friends and acquaintances the same scenario: Guy in his early-mid 30s, smart, successful, ambitious and at least decent looking (either a hot body and average face or really nice features but not working out) who spent a good deal of time (3+ years) in a relationship with a hot, entitled, somewhat smart and very socially savy woman(think an at least nice looking woman with a lot of fashion sense, class, culture, expensive hobbies and interests - not a tasteless, basic bitch) providing for her (sometimes) at the expense of his personal financial/lifestyle improvement. Relationship ends after a while, either as the guy gets fed up of having most of his money sucked in or she leaves, as she found a better provider/partner. Only after living through this experience, these otherwise pretty alpha guys learn to value a woman who loves them to bits, is not as hot or entitled, maybe smarter but definitely not as socially-savy, who they eventually marry.

Now, 'settling' is not necessarily a bad thing, I see it more as acknowledging one's limitations. Those first types of women were in each case, although not always the best looking, a whole different league compared to the second ones. Are the guys happier with their wives? In the way of getting a home, family and children, yes. What I can see in them is a loss of drive though, their wives never manage to stimulate them to achieve and be more. With time, their attraction to their wives drops, as these women don't really know how to keep it flowing, being too eager to please, too homely, too motherly, too invested in the relationship, too upfront. The guys start 'growing old' of sorts and lose that 'spark'. However, this does not mean either partner gets overweight, frumpy or bitter necessarily. For most of them this is just fine though, probably they figure out they never wanted more than a calm happiness anyways.

What's to note from this? A guy will learn his limitations and aspirations then marry someone 'under his level' somehow, someone who admires him, and that is wonderful. What can a woman in this case do? Never, ever stop improving her body and mind, not just in the kitchen or in the bedroom, become an individual who can inspire, stimulate and at times challenge her partner and never let that 'spark' leave his eyes. Have standards and never allow him to let the spark and desire to improve leave her either.

No matter what the RP tells you, high quality guys appreciate independence and a bit of a hard-to-get attitude in a woman, even after multiple years together. Or even more so then. Taste, culture, education, the right hobbies and an enriched mind really matter a lot, therein lies the difference between a 'used-to-be' hot girl who hit the wall hard and a post-wall woman who's still (or in some ways, even more) attractive. And I'm assuming the possibility of a multidimensional wife who's committed to improving and never truly gets old and matronly was the main reason which made all these guys I know invest so much money, time and effort in the first kind of women.

Nyquil-Junkie · 2017-04-10T14:26:45+00:00

An 8-9 is as an 8-9 does. Who wants to live with a self absorbed cunt just because shes "hot"?

These rating numbers are part of what causes dating problems. Like mom said, pretty is as pretty does.

Your 5 could be anothers 10.

AlphaWeaboo · 2017-04-10T14:44:37+00:00

No because you are talking about smv, and what matters is rmv, and the rmv of the sweet one is higher, so you are in fact not settling, to settle would be to take the sweet 6 when there is an equally sweet 10 but you can't get the later

[deleted] · 2017-04-10T15:09:32+00:00

I think it depends on if the guy is looking for an LTR or a ONS. I also think it depends on how high value the guy considered himself.

nozmi · 2017-04-10T18:50:22+00:00

Guy here.

Sure, attraction is the first barrier or first thing I look at before approaching a girl... but the reality is, I'm thinking about my future family too.

And a woman, no matter how hot, should be capable of being a caring mother and wife. If she's not, then I don't care much for her.

It's not "settling", it's choosing who to bang and leave and who to have a relationship with.

tempintheeastbay · 2017-04-11T02:06:34+00:00

If a woman picks a guy whose SMV is "higher" I think this often means he's ambitious, smart, on track for great things (at least in my eyes, I couldn't care less about looks). That means the more time goes by probably the more attractive he becomes to her (as he continues to ascend in the world).

If a man picks a woman whose SMV is "higher" this often means she's just incredibly hot. This will depreciate over time.

I assume the theory is that men choose high RMV women, because those qualities hold their/grow in value, as your love and relationship deepens.

I don't think the idea of a "beta" woman is even part of RP theory? Or is it? What is a beta woman? For that matter...what is an alpha woman?

JackGetsIt · 2017-04-10T13:55:23+00:00

Redpill men that value loyalty might take the 6-7 if they have no 8-9 options but the vast majority of men take the 8-9's regardless of personality if they have access to them; which is basically why lots of 8-9's can have such horrid personalities, it doesn't matter.

Men just like women lie to themselves and say that the other partner has some redeeming quality.

[deleted] · 2017-04-10T17:50:15+00:00

Priorities.

We love a great set of tits, but over the long term, being pleasant far outweighs it.

Frame it as

be attractive
don't be unattractive

and it makes more sense

[deleted] · 2017-04-10T19:22:37+00:00

Well... 7/8? I mean... that is subjective.

Let me give you a brief example.

At the gym, I see a woman, very attractive. Most people would say:8-10. She wears a push-up bra, and low-cut top. She's looking for attention. Thing is: she's married.

Another woman I know from work dresses like she's going out to the club all the time. Tight-fitting dress. Low-cut tops. She's looking for attention. She has a boyfriend.

These women are looking to move up. That is clear.

Other women I know dress comfortably at the gym. They look good, but they don't show it off. If you look at them, most people might say 7, or maybe 8. But when they dress up they look just as good as the others, but they aren't looking for attention. They have the man they want, and they aren't interested in having other men ogle them.

So the difference between a 7 and an 8 or 9 is really about perspective, and presentation. If a guy is making a long-term commitment, he's going to want somebody who is attractive but isn't trying to show every potential suitor everything she has.

I don't think it is settling: it's just a matter of not looking for a climber.

Effervesser · 2017-04-10T13:38:52+00:00

Yes. That unless they develop a fetish for moderately attractive beta women because they associated them with enthusiasm and positive experience early on. Then that becomes the new 10 for them.

Banincoming · 2017-04-10T15:04:35+00:00

Why would that be settling? A woman who loves him and supports him has more value than one who secretly despises and will cheat on him regardless of their hotness value.

bowie747 · 2017-04-10T17:35:03+00:00

It depends what you value..

But yes everybody can settle. Every has an SMV therefore everybody can in theory hunker down with someone of lower SMV in exchange for gaurunteed comfort.

fetchyminx · 2017-04-10T17:42:31+00:00

After all these divorce rates you really think men settle for the 6-7 sweet girl...

InfiniteAscent · 2017-04-11T10:51:14+00:00

An 8-9 who is entitled and bitchy isn't even going to LTR a man. She's going to ride the CC until she starts to decline, and then she's just going to be entitled and bitchy. When I was young, the hotter girls I dated were not stable relationship material, they were just playing around because it was fun for them and they could do whatever they wanted.

LOST_TALE · 2017-04-11T14:11:49+00:00

Any rational method to estimate the long-term

sweet and thinks the world of him

for how long? I feel safer with foreign shady dealings than with commitment to women. Just dig up some stories at TRP. I also don't have a hard counter-example.

[deleted] · 2017-04-12T02:34:37+00:00

yeah, the dynamics of attraction are such that we are attracted to those that we are biologically programmed to be attracted to. For men that's women that are youthful and beautiful, and for women that's typically men that are strong, confident, moneyed, high status, tall, muscular, etc. None of those things mean that someone is going to be good relationship material, nor do they mean that someone is going to be a good parent. I think a lot of people of both sexes chase hotties when they're young, and then use a more complex algorithm - not just raw sexual urges - to find partners for long term relationships and marriage. I can confirm that I am a man that will settle for the "beta-type". Narcissism, greed, and entitlement in women can ruin us financially. Look at the chick in the video below. She's fine as fuck, but do you think dudes look at her and think "I want her to raise my kids"?

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a7_1491956326

refelgallo · 2017-04-10T16:13:17+00:00

I can only speak from personal experience, i was married to a 7 that thought the world of me. the adoration only went so far. I was a better cook than her, and I make a few good meals, casseroles and pastries. Even though I did not keep it in my pants (I cheated several times) for various reasons and in some cases no reason at all. My ex has admitted to me that aside from cheating I was a good husband. Planned family trips, events. Provided for the family etc.

Divorced

Now in a LTR with HB9 very feminine, much better cook than I, supportive and if she has any issue we discuss them. Though it took 9 months of monk mode and eventually spinning some plates. This is by far the best relationship i have been in. Nor have I had the urge/desire to cheat.

mindplaybyneo · 2017-04-10T20:28:01+00:00

really tho, its not how much of the looks. its the values they have. Most of my exes tells me, I treat them right, looks good, and has a good career, But I never go for HB9. Also the connection matters a lot. I only dated average girls, since HB9 are way too way caught up in their heads. someone's 10 is someone's 4. and N-count matters for me.

Title	Men "settle"
Author	vanBeethovenLudwig
Upvotes	24
Comments	94
Date	April 10, 2017 9:16 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/64ijgi/men_settle/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/men-settle.87159 https://theredarchive.com/post/87159