~ archived since 2018 ~

PSA: men care a lot more about your body than your face

January 20, 2021

I see a lot of “woe is me” posts in here about women who feel that their prospects are poor because they have an ugly face.

The good news is that most men prefer a hot body to a pretty face. And you can do something about getting a hot body!

Because of the obesity epidemic the bar to having a hot bod is pretty low. Maintain a healthy body weight, do regular cardio, and throw in some resistance training and you’ll have a tight little body that puts you ahead of 70% of other women, regardless of how pretty their face is.

And you’ll feel good, be healthier, gain confidence, etc.

ETA: for all of the women saying that a man likes a hot body for a hook-up and a pretty face for a LTR: I think you are severely underestimating how physical and sexual men are. Men don’t just morph into docile, desexualized creatures once they are in an LTR. Gotta keep it tight ladies, even in an LTR. If they like your hot bod in the beginning they will continue to appreciate it in the relationship.

ETA part 2: I’m not saying that other qualities don’t matter (e.g. being a good mother, supportive wife, compatible personality, easy to get a long with, etc.). I’m just saying strictly in terms of looks, if you don’t have a pretty face you can work on your body and still be a smoke-show.

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Post Information
Title PSA: men care a lot more about your body than your face
Author FDSanon
Upvotes 246
Comments 151
Date January 20, 2021 12:24 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link
Original Link
Red Pill terms in post

[–]arabiandoll 39 points40 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I think if you’re overweight enough you become invisible to most men. The bare minimum is being a healthy weight. What makes a “hot” body for men is the amount of curves. A rectangle shaped body with wide shoulders and no boobs or butt is not the same as a girl the same exact weight but more curves and feminine bone structure. And I 100% think that a pretty face is more valuable to men than the curvy body, but it’s definitely a plus. Also, if you store most of your fat in your hips, butt, and boobs then you can get away with (and even benefit from) a heavier weight than someone who gains their fat mostly in their midsection. It’s really not just weight.

[–]Fadeshyy 26 points27 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

My older sister graced me with this wisdom.

"A fat woman is like a short man. Invisible to the opposite sex."

[–]arabiandoll 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I feel so bad for short men though. Like you can control not being obese but there’s nothing you can do to become taller. I don’t think short men are invisible though unless their really short, like 5’5 or below. Although my brother is 5’5 and women have been interested in him. Could be his beard. Idk.

[–]rerechan12 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think short men, as long as they're confident, are not invisible.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

and I 100% think a pretty face is more valuable to men than a curvy body

Eh, it really depends.

Most women’s faces can be pretty with makeup, and the slimmer you are the more defined your face looks. There really are not a ton of straight up ugly people in the world.

You can’t really make a bad body look like a good body, and you can never make an average body look like a great body. You can make an average body look like a good body with push up bras, spanx, heels, flattering clothing etc., but that man isn’t have sex with you in your spanx, he’s having sex with you naked.

Men don’t think about women in clothes, they think about women naked. If that picture isn’t pretty to them, they won’t be happy committing to you.

[–]arabiandoll 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

An average woman’s body is attractive to 99% of men (if it’s healthy/slim) most women who aren’t overweight are sexy to men and have some curves. A rectangle body shape is rare for a woman to have. Most of us are pear/hourglass.

When I say men would choose a pretty face over a curvy body I mean most men would choose a woman with an above average face and average body (which is still attractive and when it’s attached to a gorgeous face it seems more attractive) than an average face with a very curvy body (which a lot of men don’t even prefer, like mine) Men are sexually turned on even by looking at a beautiful woman’s face, that alone is sexy, and the rest of her is perceived as more sexy bc of her face.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

if it’s healthy/slim

Well then you have a different view of an average body than I do. If this is your definition of average, I agree with you. In the US, the average person between 20-30 is like 24BMI.

Well you’re comparing “curvy” to “above average”. Those aren’t really the same thing. If a man can choose between a woman with his ideal dimensions and an average face, or a woman with an average face and his ideal dimensions, I believe most men would choose the ideal dimensions.

But the goal is to not make him have to choose and just have above average on both ends. If you’re making him choose between the two you’re already playing a losing game.

[–]arabiandoll 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Really? Are you a man? Because most men seem to care much more about the face when it’s for a long term relationship.

I personally have an above average face and slim body but very small boobs which isn’t ideal for men but my man gets really turned on by seeing them and it’s really not causing any problems at all. Maybe SOME men absolutely need a woman to have a perfect body and that’s valid but most men don’t seem to care that much.

I don’t think it’s a losing game, or by that logic 99% of women are losing bc the amount of women who have a perfect face and perfect body are very very rare.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

slim body but very small boobs

I think a lot of women get caught up in the size of things comparative to the shape and proportions. If you’re a small girl, he probably likes small girls.

“Ideal dimensions” is not the same for every man. Some men like very skinny women with smaller features. You probably have his ideal body type.

Not every man wants a Kylie Jenner or Kim Kardashian. There are a ton of men who’s ideal body type is women built like Emma Watson.

[–]TwitchingJesus 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yo am a man and my dick agrees with what u/WhatIsThisAccountFor

[–]Omsk_Camill 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm a man and what /u/WhatIsThisAccountFor says is 100% true for me. Except I like flat-chested girls.

[–]dadbot_3000 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hi a man and what /u/WhatIsThisAccountFor says is 100% true for me, I'm Dad! :)

[–]palmtreefreeze 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your point that most women are a pear/hourglass shape is falsely inaccurate. A rectangle shape is not rare it’s quite common actually. Pear and hourglass shapes are getting more common because more people are getting surgeries to attain that figure.

[–]KombuchaEnema1 Star 102 points103 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I can’t say anything about what body parts men prioritize over others, but one thing I have noticed as an adult is that men are far more generous and forgiving regarding a woman’s appearance than I ever would’ve expected as a teenager.

A woman that I would expect to be rated as a 2/10 or a 3/10 by men is often rated much higher. Hell, even my fiancé thinks I’m far more attractive than I think I deserve credit for.

[–]snakessssssssss 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve noticed this as well

[–]All_Lurk_No_Post365 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true, I like a smoke-show IG model as much as the next guy but in real life if a girl is a healthy bodyweight she's already easily beat 70% of the competition I shit you not, add in a cute face and you're already in the top 20%.

[–]JAMESFTHE2ND 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why not ask a bunch of men what we prefer? Tbh as an individual i like a woman with a nice set of legs/calves/butt and a stomach that isn't too big, could care less about breast size tbh and many of my freinds and coworkers agree as well but just my 2 cents

[–]cast-away-ramadi06 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

more generous and forgiving regarding a woman’s appearance than I ever would’ve expected as a teenager.

How do we get the word out about this, especially to younger women?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Younger women don’t know this cause they spend al their time around younger men, and younger men are fuckin idiots.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah men are actually pretty forgiving when it comes to body shape.

[–]EffectiveAmbitious 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

thats because men have this disease to put women on pedestal as the fem centric society is asking them

[–]Mewster18185 Star 41 points42 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I also see a lot of these "woe is me" posts coming from our younger girls, and I have to wonder if they have a distorted sense of what they should look like since they've grown up with Instagram and social media icons who use a LOT of deceptive editing and a LOT of help from things like fillers. Simply put, even in their "natural, no make-up" photo there's a lot of extra help going on that doesn't reflect reality.

Statistically most of us are probably average, but that's fine because average is easy to work with. Finding a good skincare routine, a simple and natural makeup routine, nice haircut... all things that can be done with minimal effort and expense. Plus we have to remember that the way we see ourselves is always distorted from reality to some extent. When I look in the mirror I can easily fixate on what I consider my worst features, but that's simply just not the way that my husband or friends or family sees me.

[–]IcarusKiki 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I hate to disagree but I feel like being not fat is the bare minimum and then hot face, t and a. Most resign butterfaces to the hookup category. Of course fat distorts the face so that will always come first

[–]EffectiveBlackCat 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you want to LTR Chads, then yeah you need the face.

[–]BroChapeau 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Health/fitness is critical, but there's very good news for ladies. Men are attracted to feminine energy, and you can cultivate that poise, self-respect, joy, and openness/vulnerability. The power is such that I've experienced attraction to energy I felt across a train car without knowing which woman I was feeling it from.

I once saw a 70 year old woman in Ukraine who took my breath away. It was a public bus and I saw her only from a distance, but she was radiant and the energy was pouring off of her. I'll probably never forget it, and it taught me a valuable lesson about what is actually attracting me.

The allure of the feminine is intoxicating. As long as you meet the minimum bar of health/fitness, nearly any woman can become a 9+ in most mens' eyes. Work on yourself, and you'll attract the people you deserve in to your life.

[–]abacabbmk 124 points125 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I would say nice face is top, but a mans not going to care that your face is nice if youre overweight.

So, assuming you're not overweight to begin with, face is most important. But if your overweight, your face is irrelevant. If that makes sense.

Also note that losing lots of weight can change your face a lot too, so you can get body+face improvements while working towards a healthy weight.

[–]Andrea_Arlolski 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Spot on. A pretty face is top notch, but if the body isn't bangin', nothing else matters.

[–]FDSanon[S] 15 points16 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Would you rather date an overweight girl with a pretty face or a fit girl with an ugly face?

[–][deleted] 74 points75 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

fit girl

Every time. Like you said, the obesity epidemic has made fit women rare and valuable.

[–]abacabbmk 45 points46 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

fit girl/ugly face.

Like i said, if you're overweight your face is irrelevant to men.

Fit first.

[–]IAMNUMBERBLACK 20 points21 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Pretty face bc we can work on the weight. If she’s ugly, she’s ugly so its over

[–]AnonyDexx 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is getting downvotes but it's somewhat correct given that the question is a bit malformed. Nobody's going to pick a woman they subjectively view as being ugly.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]IAMNUMBERBLACK 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes but what’s your option if she’s ugly? Reconstructing her face through thousands in surgeries? Lets say I do that, well what abt when we have kids? I dont want an ugly girl bc I dont want ugly kids. They dont need to be a 10 but pretty is what I request

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]IAMNUMBERBLACK 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well avg is a whole other variable in this. Most people actually arent ugly in my eyes. And every man breaks conventional attraction to others one way or the other so it’s hard to dictate a standard. You kinda just know ugly when you see it. No redeemable qualities in the face whatsoever equals ugly to me

[–]cast-away-ramadi06 24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fit girl and ugly face. There are too many long term health and quality of life issues that go along with being obese.

Edit: I'll be honest, I can actually don't find women who are overweight but not obese as sexually unattractive because of it. Is it a negative? Yep .. not a sexual deal breaker but it is a relationship deal breaker.

[–]MagusMassi 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on how overweight, if she has obesity, like all these answers are assuming (I think), then the fit option. But if she's just a little to somewhat significantly overweight then, the ugly face would be a bigger thing than the pretty face overweight combo.

[–]rosesonthefloor1 Star 23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I think as long as you’re not obese, face (and attitude tbh) counts for more than you think it does. Weight can change. Your face is basically your face, even with weight loss.

If you’re a few pounds overweight, but got a super cute face and a good attitude, you’re probably not running into too much trouble unless you’re hoping for NSA sex with the top 1% of guys.

However yeah, if you’re 50+ pounds overweight, you gotta sort that first. Especially if you’re just looking for sex. If you’re just looking for sex, body is king.

Long-term relationships (which is the goal of most RPW) are about so much more, and bodies are just one facet (albeit a decently weighted - no pun intended - one).

[–]FDSanon[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, many things are also important to an LTR but you’re disqualified in the early rounds if you don’t take care of your body.

[–]rosesonthefloor1 Star 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, most people will disqualify you probably. But super fat people still get married all the time. Just depends who you’re looking for.

[–][deleted]  (11 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FDSanon[S] 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I don’t mean to imply that a skinny body = good body. I’m a sturdy woman myself, a size 8, 5’7, 152 lbs. I have a large frame but I work out, have a large bust and a round bottom with 20% body fat. When I was in dating apps I described my frame as “athletic.”

[–]Ionotropic_effect 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

See, the amount of work I put in the gym and nutrition won’t make my boobs grow any bigger which men LOVE those feminine curves and cleavage! Body fat pre pregnancy was 18%, I’m 5’8 and 130 pounds. A teeny tiny tight little body (which changes dramatically with pregnancy, which I currently am, gag) is incredibly difficult to maintain throughout life’s stages.

[–]FDSanon[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

There are tons of guys that prefer a slim frame as well!

[–]Ionotropic_effect -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Wait I assumed slim = tiny and tight. Isn’t that the point of your post? Btw I am the girl with the ugly face and the fit body (minus the boobs, womp womp wommmmmp) and I didn’t get approached until I got expensive acne/skincare treatments.

[–]FDSanon[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

By hot bod I mean whatever is the hot version of your bod. Primarily that means being at a healthy body weight and exercising regularly. Some guys prefer slimmer girls, some prefer girls with more curves and a booty, some prefer large breasts, some smaller, but the one common denominator is that they all prefer women at a healthy body weight who exercise.

I agree that fixing any skin issues makes a big difference in terms of looks.

[–]HappilyMrs 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry for your loss, that sounds incredibly hard

[–]PhaedrusHunt 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. 💜 Yes, I've been through a lot but this takes the cake

[–]PrintingFeelings 29 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have to disagree here. A decent body is a minimum but face is the most important thing for a ltr.

[–]aussiedollface2 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think ranking highly in one of the departments, ie. face or body, gives you a bit of leeway in the other department. Increasing your body desirability is pretty easy so basically everyone should do that! xo

[–]cast-away-ramadi06 49 points50 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Ok, here's a guy's perspective.

The most important thing for most guys is a mostly in-shape body. There's the obvious sexual component but the health component is huge in the long term. Don't buy into the "big is beautiful/healthy".

From there, as long as a partner is "good enough" in terms of natural looks, things they do have control over are more important (hygiene, styling, etc). What's good enough varries from person to person. And then of course then you also have morals, values, and personality traits.

Tits and asses get guys attention and that's helpful from a SMV perspective but, definitionaly, no HVM is going to prioritize those things in a relationship at the expense of how good of a wife and mother he thinks you'll be. Let me say that again, if a guy is telling you that tits and ass matter in a relationship, and you think he's a high value man, then you've misjudged his character and he's not high value.

[–]FDSanon[S] 19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think a HVM man will give you a chance to show that you’re great wife/mother material if you are obese.

[–]cast-away-ramadi06 51 points52 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

For a lot of men, you've proven you aren't wife/mother material by being obese. It really has less to do with the looks and more to do with self-discipline, self-control, physical and emotional endurance, and health.

[–]stayPositive890 29 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly! Obesity says a lot about a person -- it goes beyond the looks.

[–]vintagegirlgame 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

My fiancé is an ass man... no matter how hot a girl was if she didn’t have a big booty he wasn’t interested in her at all. He chose me because of all my relationship qualities (esp my cooking) but I know it’s ALSO bc he says I have the best ass he’s ever been with. Some men can afford to filter for both high RMV and SMV.

(And to clarify it’s about the booty to waist ratio so yes it’s still about being fit, not “thic”)

[–]FDSanon[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same with my husband. She has to have a nice butt for him to be sexually attracted to her.

[–]cast-away-ramadi06 -4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I hear ya. I have preferences for a muscular bubble butt with side dimples and a B cup. But given how picky I am in other areas, these just aren't that important. For example, if a woman isn't making at least $200k (or in an altruistic career field) and isn't roughly in the top 10% for physical fitness as well as both general and emotional intelligence, then I'm not interested.

It's all about what you prioritize.

[–]Brokenwench313 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you mind if I ask how many women would you estimate actually meet your preferences, say as a percentage? I'm actually curious because I feel like there would be so many more women working in altruistic fields than making over 200k.

[–]cast-away-ramadi06 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very very few. I'd say probably 5% of women meet all requirements, at best. My experience is that there's a lot of overlap between people who are really smart, in shape, and successful in their careers. In the real world, you have to make compromises. So this is why some of my physical preferences are less important to me.

In terms of career, yes - there are a LOT more people in altruistic career fields than making 200k+. In my mind, if she's not doing something altruistic then I expect a future wife to be close to if not at my level in this regard. I really don't see a problem with this at all.

With all that said, this is why I'm not terribly worried about a women's breast and ass. I've dated women with all sorts of shapes and sizes in this regard and while I have preferences, this has never been something that impacted the quality of my relationships.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]careeningtracktor 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Have to say I agree, but it does seem like other guys value tits and butt a lot more than me sometimes.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]careeningtracktor 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True true

[–]Hagoloquemedalagana 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Someone had to say it 👆

[–]UniformFox_trotOscar 32 points33 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Something about the use of the phrase “tight little body” is really off-putting to read.

Moral of the story is this- it is easier to get in shape than it is to get a hot face so if you’re going to put effort in somewhere, work out and eat well.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]FDSanon[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eh your face ages too. Good fitness, nutrition and skincare help a lot with that though.

[–]failureoftheseas 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bodies change over time, a lot more than the face does.

When you're in a long term relationship, you see that person so often so the subtle changes in their face aren't as apparent as you age together. It's only when you look back at old photos, do you realize how much both of you have changed.

[–]delidoll 13 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I would disagree with this post entirely...I’m not going to lie I don’t have the most amazing body it’s pretty average but I know I have a really pretty face. I’ve dated guys most would consider out of my league if you were just comparing bodies that have told me that my main feature that they were most attracted to was my face. I think a hot body helps for sure but most guys I’ve talked to (including my guy friends) say that face tops everything.

[–]FDSanon[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Let me put it another way: I also have a pretty face but in my early 20s was ~15 lbs overweight. Once I started to work out and got back to a healthy weight the quality and quantity of men interested in me exploded.

[–]delidoll 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m in my early 20s as well and have ~15 pounds extra too...this is interesting. I might just lose it to see what happens lol. I have a boyfriend so the results might be a bit boring but can’t knock your experience.

[–]FDSanon[S] -4 points-3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well I don’t think your friends are going to tell you that your body isn’t attractive. I think having a pretty face is great but if you don’t have a pretty face (or you want to improve your dating pool) you should work out.

[–]delidoll 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t ask them about me in particular, I was asking what they look for/prefer when dating. Obviously having a pretty face and a hot body is ideal but I think most men would choose a pretty face and an average body over a 10/10 body and an average face for a long term relationship. The guy I dated before my current boyfriend would easily be in the top 1% of guys (25, making 6 figures, went to an Ivy League, over 6 ft) and I’m almost positive he was mostly attracted to my face which tbh I wasn’t really mad about lol. I keep a healthy weight but I’m curvy naturally. I think if you try and you watch what you eat and you at the very least do cardio a few times a week you’re fine. I think there’s a lot of pressure in this community to have a perfect body when most guys would actually prefer a pretty face and good personality paired with a decent to average looking body.

[–]EGOtyst 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eh..... I am a face guy.

Face trumps body everytime.

I mean... a 1/10 on body aint gonna fly. But that is normally because of a lot of fat, which would effect the face anyway.

[–]hepazepie 25 points26 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

No. Its face-ass-tits in that order. Most men agree with me on that. Sometimes you get the odd tits over ass, but face comes always first

[–]FDSanon[S] 8 points9 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Most men I’ve talked to have said they prefer hot bod to pretty face 🤷🏻‍♀️. Maybe it’s cultural? I live in the United States and have asked white men.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FDSanon[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Would you rather date an obese girl with a pretty face or a fit girl with an ugly face?

[–]packo33 13 points14 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It is personal preference. I don't think there is a generic rule.

And there is great variance in the definition of "prettyness" also.

The advice in the OP is very valid.

[–]hepazepie 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Ill admit that i didnt conduct a study and my findings are purely anecdotal, but I would say thay I talked to 30+ men about this

[–]FDSanon[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Would you rather date an obese girl with a pretty face or a girl with an ugly face and a hot body?

[–]hepazepie 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The Age old conundrum... pretty face I chose you!

[–]emmalai85 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty face is more important to me as a bi woman, I care less about weight..... and not bitchy us most important.

[–]packo33 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugly + hot

No contest

[–]HappilyMrs 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm bi, and it's the face every time. She's going to be dressed a lot ;)

[–]vintagegirlgame 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Also bi... I’m very thin and fit so yes I need a girl to match me somewhat for me to be attracted to her. But face is also important, as a woman I’m pretty picky haha, more picky than my partner, who can overlook a butter face for a hot booty

[–]HappilyMrs 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do think bi women tend to gravitate towards women who are similar. I am big and I prefer bigger girls.

[–]MTB13579 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think men are holistic when it comes to women’s appearances. But I think face is irrelevant when a girl is over a certain weight

[–]hepazepie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting indeed. Im european.

[–]harrisonfire 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's face first.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]rosesonthefloor1 Star 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Not every woman is skinny, just like not every man is skinny. Yeah people who go for people who are overweight clearly have lower standards, but it’s just not true that “only desperate guys” go after women who aren’t skinny (which runs the gamut from skinnyfat to ‘thick’ to obese). Not everyone prioritizes weight as the most important thing. Most people, but not all.

Although if we’re talking about men who are with really obese (like 300+ lbs) women, they probably have either issues or a fetish.

[–]emmalai85 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Or they like the person and shallow isn't the only factor. It's not always about issues or a Fetish....

[–]rosesonthefloor1 Star 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not wanting a person who is 100+ lbs overweight isn’t shallow. But I’m sure you’re right and there’s more nuance to it.

[–]emmalai85 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Having seen family gain weight due to medical issues (prednisone) and seeing my grandpa love my grandma regardless of her weight gain taught me that it is shallow if you would dump a person you love over it, if they can change it to get healthier I agree it's important to be healthy. But it is shallow if it's all you care about.

I will love my partners at whatever weight, even if we all encourage each other to do better health wise.

And being skinny shamed is a thing. Fixating solely on looks is fine for hookups. I have standards for men, but I like curvier women. I think variety in shapes is a good thing but leave room for people who have different tastes.

My gf is well endowed. I am super petite for my height. My husband cares about loyalty, effort, submissiveness, and being a good person.

Vain and vanity aren't things he likes in his women, even if he does have me dress up for him sometimes.

Do looks matter?? Yes, but we as people can like different things. There is more than one kind of beautiful 😍

Edit don't date someone you can't love, but if looks is all that matters, I find that idea shallow. When you are 80, someone will always be hotter than you. You need more than looks to hold a man's interest.

[–]rosesonthefloor1 Star 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There’s a difference between weight gain later in a marriage and wanting to be with someone who is already massively overweight. In sickness and in health! You should stick by your spouse and tackle health problems together.

However being massively overweight just in general and not because of health issues speaks specifically to a lifestyle I just don’t want to live. I agree that different sizes can be beautiful! And I know there are men out there into curvy women, BBWs, all that. That’s awesome! Women are so much more than their looks, you’re totally right.

But just as you said, people like different things. I don’t want to be with someone more than twice my own body weight, and that’s not shallow. It’s just a matter of values, like valuing healthy eating and exercise over a sedentary, inactive lifestyle.

It would be very difficult for me to respect and look up to a man (or a dominant for that matter) who couldn’t keep his side of the street in good order, so to speak. I’m not talking about ~10-15 lbs. I’m talking 100. At some point, that becomes a choice. And disagreeing with that choice is not shallow.

[–]emmalai85 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't want an obese man either. I'm not married to one. I didn't say its shallow to want someone who fits your preferences. I prefer if people were more honest. Would save alot of hurt. I said I think its shallow if a general "you" only cares about how they look. When you are 50, 60, 70, you need more to offer than a youthful pretty face. Young beautiful people are everywhere. Cultivating other elements is what makes you stay valuable.

That's what I'm trying to say.

I've had 6 kids and am not overweight (I still want to lose 20lbs because that's where I prefer me) but he likes my figure where I am right now curve wise, so I haven't tried to get the hips off yet lol 😅

But his preferences matter more to me that way, and that is an important part we overlook in these discussions. Effort, caring about what your partner likes, caring what they find attractive and putting effort into being that for them is usually a key element in keeping a partner😍

I have a thing for tall dark and strong. I didn't settle, but seeing people who have and it hurting the other person, don't settle if it matters that much.

I think shallow is thinking there is only "1" type. You don't have to like what I like or vice versa, but when I imply shallowness, I am thinking of using it to make different people feel bad because they are outside your box.

While it's also on the individual to ignore comments, it still hurts to be told your ugly or unattractive all the time.

People don't need to be intentionally cruel. That's what I find shallow and mean. If that's not what your doing, than how I was using shallow wasn't aimed at you. To be clear what I meant. 🥰

[–]FDSanon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never said that looks are all that matters.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FDSanon[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most men will definitely go for a great body with an unattractive face (as opposed to an unattractive body with a great face), though.

So... it sounds like you agree with me?

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]FDSanon[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I guess every man is different but I’ve asked several HVM and they all prefer body to face.

I’ve also asked my husband questions like “would you rather me spend time doing my hair and makeup in the morning or working out?” (I don’t have time for both) and 100% of the time it’s working out.

[–]pickles-n-noodles 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tbh I’ve heard the opposite. Men don’t like “shrimps” (this terminology comes from the fact that the shrimp body is good for consumption whereas the head is thrown out without much regard). There’s even a term called butterface (nice body, but her face..)

[–]blueberrypanda1 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think men care more about the body for one night stands and more about the face for longterm relationships as a general rule.

Of course varies man by man and by what his type is but I think there is another important element that needs to be considered.

When a high quality man looks for a wife, the most important thing he looks at is the kind of feminine energy a woman has, her qualities of being nurturing and a good mother in the future. He has to be attracted to her (or she wouldn’t be someone he would even consider this for) but at that point a high quality man would rather marry a 7 with the qualities of a great woman than a 10 with lesser qualities.

Also, a fun fact from my personal experience: men who were not breast fed tend to care more about women’s breast size than men who were. That is an other thread though.

[–]FDSanon[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m certainly not saying that other qualities don’t matter, just that in terms of looks having a good body goes a LONG way.

[–]xleolio 19 points20 points  (4 children) | Copy Link


[–]MagusMassi 18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes I don't feel like this is accurate at all, at least for me. Obviously it's a huge plus, but the face is by far the most important.

[–]Acrobatic-Stuff 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Definetly agree, I dislike an unhealthy body but wtf the face is the most important at least for mw

[–]harrisonfire 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]Trippytrapp 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Another tip, as you long fit a niche/ or a mans “type” the standards are pretty lax in terms of face.

[–]Advanced_Bar_673 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My female perspective is I think for hook ups a hot body is male priority, but for LTR a man wants to be able to see a pretty face day in, day out, and a pretty face is key to a lasting sexual chemistry. Many men love eye contact during sexual acts, love to watch a woman's face when she orgasms, love to watch her face doing all the sexy acts they fantasize about. And they love things like glasses and wigs and different makeup etc to create novelty. A man will not typically LTR a "butter face".

[–]glittergrunge99 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nah, body weight can change but a face is either pretty or it isn’t. No amount of plastic surgery would help with that one.

[–]arabiandoll 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’ve seen girls going from literally ugly (and I don’t use that word a lot) to drop dead gorgeous with plastic surgery, don’t underestimate it lol

[–]glittergrunge99 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I thought of a few too...but they still look...plastic? Definitely a world different than a naturally beautiful woman, I’d say.

[–]arabiandoll 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I actually know some that I would’ve never guessed were not real. Maybe you do too but you just don’t know they got plastic surgery bc you can’t tell

[–]vintagegirlgame 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But then what about their kids? There was a guy in China who sued his wife for making ugly kids bc she didn’t tell him about all the plastic surgery she had 😂

[–]liao24 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I am a man and I approve of this message. Also y'all have make up. What about the opposite, a man with a sexy body and an ugly face?

[–]FDSanon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I care a lot more about a guys body than his face. Hot body over nice face, 8 days a week.

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's also not that hard to go from ugly face to cute. Learning a half-decent basic makeup and hair routine will put you above lots of women.

[–]neoj8888 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess, but the face is just one small part of your body and it probably takes about 1/3 of the interest. So it’s disproportionate in relation to any other part of your body.

[–]LexiFromWestchester 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think both areas are relatively easy to get a handle once you commit yourself to some goals. Weight can always be lost, a body can always get toned and a face can always be improved via makeup, skincare routines, cosmetic touches, etc. It's just getting into the proper mindset and finding the motivation at a consistent level.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is 100% right. Stop giving away our secrets!

Lol but no in all seriousness , you are 100% correct here

[–]JAMESFTHE2ND 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea as long as you're not obese we don't care. Guys will go for a nice set of legs any day of the week over a pretty face that is overweight.

[–]stayPositive890 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women should just learn to accept themselves. Of course, it is important to have a healthy body, but when it comes to face, learn to love how you look.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A woman can be beautiful to one man, but ugly to another.

The confidence that radiates from loving yourself is all that matters. Don't worry about the men who don't find you attractive -- only care about the ones who do.

Edit: Don't know why people are down voting this. Do you want someone who won't accept you for who you are? Yes, it's important to exercise and have a healthy body, but you can never change your face. I don't care about men who don't find my face beautiful -- the ones who do are the ones who matter.

[–]FDSanon[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well to be frank I think that’s bullshit. Not everyone is beautiful and that’s okay. I think you should to your best to maximize what you have rather than wait for a guy that thinks your particular brand of frumpiness is beautiful.

[–]stayPositive890 -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone is beautiful (in terms of face -- body too, but that's not our focus here and I'm all for being healthy). Of course, not everyone is beautiful to you, but everyone has someone who thinks that they are beautiful. The woman you think is the most beautiful is the most ugly to another man.

A woman cannot change her face. She can wear makeup, but it doesn't change. She may do plastic surgery, but that's the ultimate betrayal to herself. A woman should learn to love her face. It's a great way to build self love.

[–]saint-jezebel 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I watched a video recently and when asked to men what they really want in a woman, pretty face does not come up. Fit body is the first thing they say. And many times, when women lose weight, they lose excess fat on the face which hides a beautiful face anyway.

[–]MusingsOfASoul 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting, I totally get the ETA part the OP mentions.

I am basically romantically (LTR) attracted to women but basically sexually attracted to men. A beautiful face is what can stir up those romantic feelings, not so much a body. However, I would still take that into consideration because I would want a partner that is healthy, and being healthy is "sexy", and chances are if you are not fit you are not close to optimally healthy.

[–]JulianUNE 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Emphasise your best features. Cover up your less attractive ones. Makeup can make a lot of difference. I don't believe appearance is irrelevant but I have genuinely known women who are just sexy despite not being very attractive. There is just something warm and cute about them. Womanly.

[–]moneygang4life 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They care about both. Also men’s standards for looks are lower than most women think.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It makes me curious if it's any different for women? Do we prefer hot body's over face?

Men seem to care less about a perfect appearance than we expect. I think they're pretty much ok with everything average. That doesn't mean a perfect body isn't a much bigger turn on and beats the crap out of being 'ok'.

[–]crampsalot 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

A person’s behavior/ personality are the deal-breakers (unless it’s understood to be short-term). Face and body are extras. Attractive body is of higher value to me than attractive face, however compatibilty/ kindness/ loyalty trump all. I am a successful physician happily married for over 30 yrs, so take it for what you think it’s worth. Again, kindness, loyalty, compatibility trump everything.

[–]FDSanon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

See my ETA part 2 :)

[–]silentghost1846[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a 20 year old male, I'd say most men my age check out a womens breast, butt, and stomach the most. The rest doesn't really matter much. But one thing that really turns us off is infidelity.

[–]emmalai85 -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My partner prefers me curvier in the butt than I like myself, and our girlfriend is very heavy. He prefers healthy over perfect. Submissive in personality makes a woman beautiful to him. Controlling, bitchy women turn him off. Doesnt matter how beautiful they are.

He wants nice, calm, Submissive and fun to be around who make his life more interesting. Easier isn't always the key part, but obedience is. He wants to be in charge.

Men want different things. Pick one that likes you, your wiring, put effort into the relationship and yourself and they likely will appreciate you.

Looks don't last forever, the intimacy and emotional bond is what makes it last a lifetime

[–]MTB13579 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can 100% agree with this. I was very used to constant attention from guys and then during a dark phase in my life I gained a lot of weight and was instantly invisible to men. I noticed how different I got treated. As I lost the weight the attention gradually came back. I don’t really understand it and I think it’s sad but men seem to be so grossed out by bigger women.

[–]BrownGummyBear 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only guys who go for bigger girls are the ones who are fat themselves and can’t get better (with the rare chaser here and there).

Fit Body > Face. Unless the guy is also unfit that is

[–]F33dR 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This advice is trash. Most intelligent men prefer in this order: 1. Good character. 2. Pretty face. 3. A hot body. With dumb men the order may be different but you have to ask yourself; who is it you want to market yourself to? *I am a man. * The OP sounds like a woman. DO NOT take advice about what men want from women. I don't take advice about what women want from men, because i'm not stupid.

[–]FDSanon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You think smart men can’t like a hot body??? Uhm...

[–]FDSanon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My husband is an extremely smart PhD in electrical engineering who has a very high paying job at a FANG. He was his highschool valedictorian and got a perfect score on his SAT. He’s also an unapologetic ass man.

[–]dasanman69 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll share a little secret with you ladies. The great equalizer is femininity. Right before the pandemic I went out with a group of friends that I regularly hang out with, mostly women, all quite attractive but this time there was a new girl.

She wasn't as pretty as the other girls and pretty much slim, small breasts and small butt but she was very feminine and I just couldn't help but give her all of my attention. I normally divide my attention in between all of the girls and they noticed that I wasn't doing that and afterwards joked about me liking the new girl. So work on your feminine energy, trust me it works.

[–]DeepDaddyDeep -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


Source: hetero male.

[–]Muchadoaboutcass -5 points-4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This needs 1000x more upvotes.

This has an evolutionary biological explanation and is deeper than purely cultural.

This is about HEALTH and not necessarily obesity. Starving women do not look like child bearing candidates!

Also, the fitter you are the better you look at making good choices and being able to say no to self indulgence. This is sexy because you look like you’ve got self control and will essentially make a good mother.

Face is meh because anyone can have a pretty face with a good body. It’s about a whole package here ladies. Guys aren’t dumb.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FDSanon[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well I’m not saying that they would dislike your face, just that their initial attraction to you would be your body. If you were in an LTR and they loved you I’m sure they would love your face.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand what you mean

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Apologies, I meant to thank you for explaining too

[–]Hot_Connection_189 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link's the overall package...changing one thing changes it completely.

[–]rerechan12 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not that I disagree but I wish society standard for women also does the same for men cos I'd love for my husband to care about his body as much as I care about my own.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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