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So what if you've had a lot of partners?

October 2, 2020

(This started out as a comment, and grew.)

Okay, so first of all, this is not a tradcon space. Their answer to "I slept with a lot of men" is "begone harlot!", which isn't very useful, because "you shouldn't have done that" isn't advice, it's just moralizing.

Okay, the bad news is that because of what you did, you absolutely are less desirable as a wife. Take a deep breath, look in the mirror, and accept that, because getting mad or sad about it does no good. You are not a jar of peanut butter, you can't get unscrewed.

Also useless is blaming men for caring about such things. Men weren't put on this earth to serve you. They get to like what they like and they don't have to answer to you for whether it's "justified" or not.

The important place to start with is to understand why men care about your sexual past.

This may be difficult because men themselves usually do not know why they care about your sexual past. They don't understand their own feelings in this area, and so they cannot explain them. They only know that it "bothers them". So they make up excuses like the ridiculous "stretched out" myth, as if girl parts could somehow wear out, and did so faster with more partners. Or they say that women who have lots of partners can't pair bond, when it's actually the reverse (women who can't pair bond have lots of partners).

They're not trying to lie to you. They just don't know why they are turned off by the idea of committing to a woman who's been with lots of other men... and they are trying to explain it themselves.

But it can be understood. The key word here is "committing". If you look at porn targeted towards men (not the written-word stuff targeted at women), then you notice that the women in it are just about as slutty as it's possible to be, and it doesn't turn the male audience off at all (otherwise they wouldn't be depicted that way).

Men don't care about the sexual past of their casual sex partners, but they care deeply about the sexual past of their romantic partners. This is because they know, even if they can't articulate it, that a woman is at her most sexually available and adventurous with the man she loves the most.

What actually bothers men is the idea of being with someone, of committing to someone, for whom he wasn't the top choice. A man can be patient with a girl who is a virgin... so what if she made him wait for a week, or a month, or whatever? After all, she made everyone else wait for eternity. She's still being at her most sexually available with him in particular.

But once a girl has, for example, a one-night stand, then that indicates something about what it takes to inspire her sexual enthusiasm, and if she she tries to put the brakes on with future partners, this tells them exactly where they stand in the scheme of things. This is why men find the news that his wife had a previous one night stand to be humiliating... she desired that other man more than she desired him.

And it's no good to say "I made a mistake" or "I changed my standards" because all that means is "other men were able to tempt me to do unwise things, but I have more self-control with you".

So, that's the problem with sleeping with a man you just met... because forever afterwards, that's the standard. That's the benchmark. Anything more reserved than that means "I'm just not that into you". And you will never persuade a man otherwise by talking at him.

So, with all this being understood, what can you do?

There are three approaches:

  1. Lie. This may seem immoral, but we don't do moralizing here. Lies can, theoretically, fix the problem. But there are some drawbacks. You can't ever be totally open and honest in your relationship... you have to live that lie for as long as your relationship lasts. Also, if you ever get caught, a lie compounds the injury, and you should not expect the relationship to survive.

  2. Continue to take sexual risks, but with a purpose. This involves being as sexually available to the men you're dating now as you ever were in the past, although now you are at least looking for a relationship. Obviously, this tend to expand your sexual history even further, but at least if you manage to get something going, you didn't withhold from him more than you did with others.

  3. Radical self-improvement. Increase your value on the sexual marketplace so much that you are not the same sexual partner at all, and it's obvious that you can command more effort and investment. This is not as simple as just learning to play the piano, or being slightly nicer to men. It has to be a profound and immediately obvious improvement to the point where a man would not he made ashamed. Think on the order of quitting your drug habit, losing fifty pounds, maybe getting a nose job, and basically reinventing yourself. If you could be in a room with a former sexual partner and your husband, and the FIRST guy feels like a loser, because he had a much worse version of you, that's the magnitude we are talking about.

What do all of these solutions have in common? Well, they all hurt. They all have drawbacks.

But this is the real world, and it wasn't put here to be fulfill your fantasies. This is simply damage control.

It may be tempting to think that you can re-invent yourself as a virgin and simply raise your standards. We've seen plenty of women try to do this, and some of them even find partners. But what they do not find is enthusiastic partners who had other choices. Men who wife up an slut are men who don't have options, and there will reasons why they don't have those options.

So if you want the best partner that is available to you, you're going to have to have a concrete strategy for dealing with what you did, and how that affects their feelings, instead of just complaints about the consequences of your actions. That means more risk, and more compromises... but we can always play the cards we have to the best of our abilities.

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Post Information
Title So what if you've had a lot of partners?
Author Whisper
Upvotes 169
Comments 139
Date October 2, 2020 2:39 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link
Original Link
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[–]Ms_Sommersby 20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No man has ever asked me how many partners Ive had. Also this is ridiculous advice to keep sleeping with them early but look for a relationship. Change your standards, despite a high count you are still valuable and worth something. You stop sleeping with men early because having sex early prevents you from developing the emotional side of the relationship. Maybe the n count is more an issue with younger men. As they age they care slightly less. You can change yourself and be forgiven for your past. Its a bond that can be broken. If you believe in God he absolutely can do this for your and help bring the man of your dreams. If not, you still dont have to keep having sex early on. People will see you changed your ways and respect you. You dont have to reveal your number of partners ever.

[–]cohost3 81 points82 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For some odd reason I admire the high N-count or older women who still try and understand the red pill. It’s an easier pill to swallow when you are young and have a low-n count because you know your smv is still high.

It would easy for high n-count women to pretend like no one cares about n-count and keep making the same mistakes over and over. I see this kind of denial on reddit all the time. But instead they try and change for the better. I think that’s awesome.

High N-count women should still have a place here. You can’t turn back time, you can just make the most of what you have now.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you have omitted the most pracrical reason of it all, the reason for which promiscuity has been a trait 'forgiven' only for men since the beginning of time: risk-taking behaviour! It is a trait that is valuable in men and unwanted in women.

In any sexual encounter, the risk of pregnancy falls 100% on the woman, not to mention that in a modern one-night stand there is always the posibility that the man you've gone with might be some murderous weirdo and you'll end up as a case in Forensic Files.

Society as a whole has valued the lives of women more than the lives of men solely because children are dependent on their mother. That means not only that men got to go to war and hunt and take dangerous jobs where they die, but that women themselves need to be careful about their own bodily integrity. Somebody who gets drunk and sleeps around isn't exactly taking care of herself, be it that she is actively seeking a thrill or is just passively naive. Of course, today we have condoms and the pill, we have a safer society where you can always be tracked on your phone so you are safe and that does lead many men to not care as much about a woman's past. I mean, 100 years ago a woman whose had a one night stand would have been singled out and shamed and no man would touch her! Today? Not so much, but men are still hard-wired to dislike risk-taking behaviour in women.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The purpose of the sub is to get and be a good partner. One of the ways we do this is trying to understand how each gender ticks. If that bugs you then rpw is not for you. If you are a man who does not participate on trp, this is not the sub for you.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]redditme789 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe at some level, men would care less if their own number is significantly larger than their partner’s.

[–]lilastr 11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I agree with those but how come it’s so sexist in the way that man’s past is almost always overlooked?

I don’t wanna feel like I’m not the top choice either? It bothers me, I don’t know why. I don’t buy into “man with n count are valuable because they could make a woman sleep with him.” No! Because you gave your ex women some thing you probably withheld from me. How’s that honorable for a woman? You gave her attention and time and experience first. I was second, or third, or fifth. How are women supposed to cope with that? I don’t care if you made millions of women suck your dick, you also paid attention to millions of women, but I AM the one who carries the burden of being mother of your kids and wife of your house? How come those millions of women didn’t have to deal with it and live freely?

Someone explain. I’m not defending myself in any way because I’m a virgin. It just seems very, very unfair to women, but bitching won’t help. So I wanna understand. How do I invest so much of my female life that other women had for free and easily?

[–]solsticio21 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you should try your best to not focus on other women. If you are living your life in a way that makes you genuinely happy and healthy, then that is all you can ask for!

[–]lilastr 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You could say the same thing to a man though. “I think you shouldn’t focus on her exes and live your life healthily and happily.” Which is a sugar coated lie because they will care

[–]solsticio21 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My current SO has never asked me about anything of this manner, he has way more important things to think about like his work and hobbies, or making me happy :). On the other hand, I know the intimate details of some of the previous women he has been with because they were in a friend group close to my own. I could fixate on the details I am aware of, but that would make me so unhappy! So instead I focus on how I can improve our relationship and make him happy!

[–]HazelMania 19 points20 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I am sorry I didn't read the whole thing but not every guy treats a virgin girl with patience ... some of them do it for the first month, and then start complaining and whining that she is not adventurous or flexible or skilled enough. They create the problem and then they feel bad because of it.

[–]yungsweetro2 Stars 17 points18 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Some guys definitely don’t have the patience for virgins, but this works as a nice vetting tool because those guys probably didn’t want you for more than sex anyways and probably have different goals when it comes to dating.

However, the guys that do have the patience for virgins are so much more understanding of your pace and will treat you with a lot of respect. Me opening up to my SO that I was a virgin added to my vulnerability, and in turn it played even more into his protector instincts.

[–]HazelMania 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I see what you are saying but I actually meant patience after the first time. And since virgins can't be vetting guys every time .. cause next time they will not be a virgin, it's extremely high stakes anyways. Not worth it.

[–]yungsweetro2 Stars 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Could you clarify what you mean? I’m not sure I understand.

[–]HazelMania 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sure, I come from a culture that considers a girl's virginity a vital criterion for marriage (Madonna-whore complex). It's the standard conservative jazz .. "purity," "virginity makes you a saint," "virginity means a girl is smart cause she didn't sleep with anyone and is waiting for a quality guy who will marry her," etc. This makes the girls reject any sexual advances, even with a boyfriend or a fiance, UNTIL they are married. They wait and wait, then they get married, go to honeymoon, he says you are a saint, she says thank you for waiting (psst, he hasn't been waiting, he's been sleeping with hookers and she probably even knows it, she is gonna confirm it when she gets tested positive for STDs).

A few months later the guy gets bored, because the girl doesn't know her own body, is not flexible or doesn't know what kind of flexibility is needed, doesn't do any "weird" and "dirty" stuff (like BJs), she DEFINITELY is not getting any oral ... so the guy starts going to hookers again, having side chicks, sex when traveling, etc etc etc.

So, no one actually waited apart from the girl herself. He definitely didn't have patience BEFORE or AFTER marriage. In these types of cultures, the only way to vet is to actually get married, but even then, you hardly have any guarantees that he won't go sideways after that. I would like to say most ppl are normal and this is an exception, but unfortunately, in some cultures, this is the norm, and adequate ppl are the exceptions.

[–]yungsweetro2 Stars 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t have any experience in a conservative culture like that, so what I said was more applicable to a super liberal Western culture. Here, virginity or a low N-count makes you a bit more unique than your peers who follow the general cultural consensus that women should experiment sexually to be liberated and modern. While most women and even some men are vocally supportive of female sexual liberation, the fact remains that many men still have a visceral gut reaction to be turned off by sexually promiscuous women, probably because the way we’re wired evolutionarily hasn’t caught up to the changing times and modern attitudes. In the West, men who just want to sow their wild oats and “enjoy the decline” will reject virgins or low N-count girls for how slow they want to take things, but men who like relationships and want to have families will probably value sexually conservative women.

I can see the Madonna/Whore complex being an issue in a very conservative culture. I think it’s a pity that women in these cultures don’t have much of an opportunity to vet their partners prior to marriage, due to arranged relationships or at the very least strong familial pressure. That’s why I think both ends of the spectrum, from extreme sexual liberation to extreme sexual conservatism, are both unhealthy cultures that come with their own pitfalls.

However, I don’t think being a virgin necessarily means that you’re a stiff prude who will only have missionary sex and be a starfish the entire time. I was a virgin before I met my SO and I was quite perverted with a high sex drive lol. I don’t shy away from the “weird” and “dirty” stuff, was never uncomfortable with my body, and was still a sexual being despite being a virgin before I met my SO. I think women in the West and in more conservative cultures alike can benefit from learning to be and think sexual while maintaining their virginity or a low N-count for the right one.

You can negate the Madonna/Whore complex by being a multi-faceted person instead of allowing yourself to just follow cultural archetypes. Some men will never get over their Madonna/Whore complex, but some will be happy to see that his wife, who was a virgin before marriage, is just as sexual as he is and will have less of a reason to stray.

[–]voidmilk 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is insanely true. I currently live in a country where this is so widespread. Women don't trust men at all and start acting out almost immediately while the men just lie to get what they want and basically everyone cheats on everyone. Meanwhile they still go on about purity and maintaining face and all that stuff. It's a really really bad self-fulfilling devil's spiral.

[–]HazelMania 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, and while women get told that ALL MEN WANT IS SEX, and that they will use her and then leave her without marrying her, women develop a traumatic approach to sex as something bad, as if she is being used in it, and is not even supposed to get pleasure from it. Broken lives, but strong families :D Most importantly, everything looks good from the outside.

[–]voidmilk 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes. Sex is essentially a chore. It's work to be done by the wife to "give" to her husband to make him happy. It's used as a tool to keep men in line. At no point is it ever considered to be done for fun for the woman. Some women do, but they have to be insanely hot and manipulative to make it through the social stigma, which will further reinforce their image as "manipulative unworthy women". Also I've seen so many dead bedrooms. It's really sad.

[–]HazelMania 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ya, I know everything you are saying, all accurate.

[–]aussiedollface2 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My husband knows I’ve had a couple of LT boyfriends, and he asked if I had any one night stands once early on in dating when we were playing a drinking game lol (I haven’t) and that’s the extent of our discussion. I would never ask him his “count” or details but I assume it’s much higher than mine.

[–]DelicateDevelopment4 Star 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is a forth option.

I want the next one to be the last one.

[–]HarshaCity 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I remember suggesting to someone on this sub that she deflects the question if she is ever asked about her history - which was promiescous -, not lie about it, only deflect the question. Next thing I know I was downvoted to hell and everyone and their mother called me names. Seeing the "lie" suggestion on this post feels like victory of some sorts haha.

[–]Erfbender 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it's a feasible strategy, but I think most people view those consequences as pretty awful.

[–][deleted]  (22 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Nandemodekiru 38 points39 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

For me personally, I think it’s gross and shows a lack of self control and discipline. “Sowing oats” and all that just makes me want to vomit. What if he got another girl pregnant? Do I suddenly have to deal with the mother too? How does he view sex and love? Is he even able to pair bond by this point, or does sex not mean much to him anymore besides a dopamine release? Does he have or had an STD? Has he even checked?

Then again, I’m not sure that I would even ask. If he suddenly goes into his past sexepades, then I would view this as baggage and disrespectful towards me. To each their own though, of course.

[–]DelicateDevelopment4 Star 6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Men don't pair bond over sex as much as women do. To consider it like that would be projecting female attitude on men and therefore lead to false conclusions.

It is not a simple black or white logic.

Let me give you one example. If a man has a sexual affair it is lesa threatening to the relationship than if he has an emotional affair. On contrary if a women has a deep friendship with a man it is less threatening to the relationship than her having a sexual affair.

Men always never leave their wifes and kids for only sexual affair. A women who has sex with another guy is almost always lost for the relationship. We all know that if we feel we belong to one man we cannot even think about sex with another man. While we can have multiple male friends without it necessarily ruining the relationship.

It is important to understand that at this point men and women are very different.

Men are the gatekeepers of relationships, women are the gatekeepers to sex. That is were the priorities are and that is the logic that should be applied to such situations.

I understand that you dislike it. I do too 🙂 although I would not make his n-count not an issue if he would be otherwise be a kind and caring partner. However for the logic it is crucial to see that there are indeed double standards for men and women, that have meaning and real life consequences. I think a man with many close female friends or maybe even only female friends would be more dangerous, than a man with high n-count.

I am pointing this out because from what you wrote it seems as if you would consider this in exactly the opposite way and I think there you would make a false assumption and it could lead to you vetting the wrong guy.

The same behavior in men can mean something completely different than in women.

[–]Advanced_Bar_673Endorsed Contributor 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's so fascinating to me that men CAN and will have more casual sex without any "emotion" attached, but once he pair bonds then sex does indeed become DEEPLY emotional for a man and he cannot function well in the relationship without it. To put it bluntly, if his woman won't f*CK him then he feels he is no longer the "best". Whereas women say they need the "pair bond" / commitment to have sex in the beginning, yet often STOP or drastically lower the quantity of sex once commited. It seems so cruel and ironic, and worthy of note.

[–]DelicateDevelopment4 Star 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think because another aspect is that the way in which men and women emotionally experience love and friendship is also different.

There are some OP at TRP that describe how men experience friendship and it is completely different how women experience or life friendship.

And there are other OP at TRP that explain how men seem to perceive or experience love (it is all just descriptions! That do not necessarily need to reflect how the other sex experiences it). They say woman love upwards and men love downwards and to them it seems like women need to be loved in the way children need to be loved. So the love of a man shall feel caring, protection, providing, safe. While the love of a women feels admiring, respecting, deferring.

So when a man thinks he wants to establish friendship on a more intimate level and thinks he needs to imitate female friendship and it will easily lead to a situation where the woman feels responsible for him in the way that she feels responsible for a child, protecting, therapy-talks, safe place.

Then consequently the roles exchange and the woman cannot feel really sexually attracted to someone for whom she feels responsible. The sexual attraction feed is respect and admiration, the feeling of wanting to belong.

I believe that this is a "make it or break it" point in many relationship.

I also think it can be reversed if the man manages to get back into his old role by competence, not dominance.

Dominance here then would only lead to a further spiralling down.

Love AND respect cannot be demanded...

Also, a women with an "upwards" oriented close friendship to a man will also feel sexually attracted and him rejecting her sexually would probably be terribly painful for her and the maybe he "opens up", turns her into his comfort pillow and she looses respect or feels she needs to be too careful balancing around his white lies and sensibilities and looses sexual attraction.

Or example of the plate where even all male attention and all orbiters in the world (=love for men, female way of having friends) cannot comfort her over the disconnect with the men she loves and has sex with.

So I think the logic goes in both direction. One just needs to find the equivent pairs for the comparison.

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[–]Nandemodekiru 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Let me straighten out one thing: I’m a Christian, and a virgin. I aim for a partner with the same values. I’m more forgiving if he had sex in long term relationships, but anything higher than 4-5 is a no go for me personally. PERSONALLY. If he’s been going around having sex with god knows how many women, then I’m not letting him touch me. It is what it is. I understand the differences between men and women, but personal experiences in observing men close to me say otherwise in regards to sex. They started to view all women as the same and had a harder time settling down. And I’m more willing to trust my own two eyes and ears than a random person on the internet. I’m sorry.

[–]DelicateDevelopment4 Star 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I am sorry if this can be understood as if I would advocate that you reconsider your values.

I just wanted to say that when vetting men then him having many or mostly female friends is more worrysome than a high n-count.

I said this with respect to "false security" regarding the relationship, in case he has a low n-count but many female friends. Then this could be a red flag too.

But the way you describe it now, it rather seems like it was an unneccessary concern of mine. I assume in your social circle it would then also be unusual for a man to have a whole circle of only female friends.

[–]Nandemodekiru 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re right, that is a red flag. In which case, how likely it it then, that he’s either lying about his n-count, or he’s planning on cheating? I think these are two separate situations. I appreciate that you’re just trying to look out for me and making sure that my standards aren’t too high, but I’m also not that stupid. A lack of male friends and too many female friends? Might as well have a red blinking arrow saying that something is wrong. We are in agreement on this.

[–]DelicateDevelopment4 Star 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not at all about your standards. Keep them high!

To put it bluntly: I am talking about what TRP refers to as orbiters. Men that invest emotionally in a relationship with a women who is not sexually interested in them or does not have serious intentions except using them as comfort pillows. Their behavior is comparable to that of women with high n-count. My observations are that men who have been orbiters for long also tend to become bitter and resenting towards women or they will always have female friend that needs their "help", etc.

Of course this does not apply to normal interactions... I just wanted to say that high n-count is not the only red flag a man can show with respect to how he interacts with women.

I could also be wrong. I just wanted to state the possibility because men and women are so different.

But of course this also explains why men feel threatened if women have too many close male friends. For them it feels as if we were cheating.

[–]ajaa123 24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men who get with anyone and everyone is the biggest turn off. I want a man who has self respect and doesn't sleep with anyone he can get.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No questions from men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't care about a man's count unless it's zero (or very very low), in which case I would lose interest.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Pimpjuice2 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Social proof on the sexual marketplace. Women want a man that other women have screened and deemed sexually valuable.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I like outgoing, attractive, assertive men, and these men tend to sleep around. If he's struggled to have sex, or hasn't sought sex out, then he's almost certainly not someone I'd be into.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Artgirl_93 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My husband and I both had pretty high n-count when we met. It never once bothered him or me. We just clicked immediately, and got married within a year. Married for two, now.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely, I am married to man like that. Men like this settle down and marry every day. Sowing ones oats loses some of its appeal once you've been around the block, fallen in love and had children of your own.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We're also in our 40s and our circle is full of people like us, and they're all doing great. In my experience, a marriage surviving has much more to do with class, culture and age than how much sex you had in the past.

[–]IcarusKiki 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly a lot of men don’t give a shit about n count as long as you don’t have a reputation following you.

[–]Javares 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As long as we can pretend nothing ever happens it is fine. But, the past has a tendency to rear its head. Better to be honest upfront to prevent a waste of time.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

I've never in my life had a man ask how many people I've been with and would honestly be a bit put off if my husband had quizzed me on it.

I can see this being a problem for men who do go out and ask these questions, or women who decide to overshare, but I've dated plenty and it's simply never come up.

Continue to take sexual risks, but with a purpose. This involves being as sexually available to the men you're dating now as you ever were in the past

How is a current partner going to know exactly how "available" you were to men in the past?

[–]yungsweetro2 Stars 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

While past relationships and experiences came up in my relationship, it had a lot more to do with me being an oversharer and liking to talk about my past. My SO never was the one to pressure that info out of me lol. I think talking about these things really depends on the individuals and the couple.

[–]-Acta-Non-Verba- 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Ah, the “don’t ask don’t tell” plan.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not a "plan", it's just that not everyone cares about this as much as some men here seem to.

Like sure, I'm confident he wouldn't want to picture me with other guys, but I think for plenty of men it's way down the list of concerns and just not worth losing sleep over.

[–]thesixthamethyst 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for saying this. I refer to it as "don't ask, don't tell" as well, but not because it's some trick or manipulation. I just really don't think my past intimacies are anyone's business, and I don't care about my partner's past either. I mentioned this in another thread yesterday, but I have literally never dated a man (I dated a handful of attractive, successful men before finding my husband) who was curious about my number. And honestly, I don't have any female friends who have run into it either - and these friends run the gamut from pure to promiscuous. Seriously, this only seems to be a thing on the internet!

I have a pretty low number so it's not like I "don't tell" because I'm ashamed, I just think it's super weird to share that kind of information! And that is also exactly why I "don't ask." If a man felt entitled to know every intimate detail of my sexual history, quite frankly, that wouldn't be a man I'd have been interested in dating. Partners who think they are privy to that are the ones who are inevitably controlling, jealous, and entitled.

[–]ThorsdaySaturnday 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same! My number is super low, but I have an irrational embarrassment of it, that’s why my husband doesn’t know. None of his business anyway.

[–]ThorsdaySaturnday 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

As opposed to one of my girlfriends, who asks the guy on a first date how many women he’s been with? She asks out of pure curiosity, is my understanding.

It’s no one’s business how many people they have slept with. I have never asked my husband, and he has never asked me. This is not to be confused as a license to sleep around, because that’s disgusting . We mutually accept that each other’s past is past, and the only thing that matters is our present and future.

[–]justa_game 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

As a girl, I ask to understand the intentions of the guy. How he treats his past relationships is an indicator of how he might treat our relationship. Is he a player? Does he take relationships seriously? It shows his values

[–]GuruDev10001 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Then why shouldn't a man ask to know how a woman treats her body with other men?

[–]justa_game 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never said he shouldn't... Maybe it's because I've only been with one person but personally I'm perfectly fine with the question

[–]CorneliusHardcastle 7 points8 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

He won't exactly know, but he might be suspicious. And at some point might feel comfortable enough to ask "what so you've never ever in your life had a one night stand? Really?" , then what? You're gonna commit 100% to the lie? "yup, never ever". That's the smart move, but in a serious long term relationship lying can be really uncomfortable. And if you do ever say "OK, yeah I did a couple of times, I was dumb, I dunno", or whatever, your serious boyfriend or husband even is now gonna have it eating away at him if you made him wait.

I believe it's juvenile and creepy, incelish, to talk about girls being "used up" vs "pure", I don't give a fuck about that, but don't disrespect me by treating me worse than other dudes, don't put them above me and expect me to be ok with it.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

We've been married almost a decade and it hasn't come up. We just don't talk about our histories.

[–]doom2345 6 points7 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Really? 'Who have you been with before me?' has never come up? That's pretty hard to believe. Did you agree "it shall never be spoken"?

And btw men fill in blanks just like women do. We put together a complete picture based on a million different small pieces of info just like women do. For example, a story of you going to a frat party with your girlfriends and drinking too much. If we don't know your n-count, than our "estimate" goes up after that story.

[–]yungsweetro2 Stars 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can understand that men make estimates for their GF’s N-count based on little things that their GF tells them, but just pitching in to say going to frat parties and drinking definitely does not mean she got ran through lol. I went to plenty of frat parties as a freshman in college and maintained my virginity despite it. I’m not that religious but I was friends with a lot of the girls in a catholic club and they all went to frat parties and drank too. Knowing their character AND going to frat parties with them myself, I can guarantee that the vast majority of them didn’t hook up with anyone at frat parties.

Don’t view college life and frat parties as some giant orgy - while some people definitely get busy, there are just as many awkward girls standing in a circle with their friends and going home to eat takeout together lol. Some people just want to see what all the hype is about. It’s not really that black and white :)

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, it has never come up in a serious way. And it hasn't with any of my partners since high school.

I know who a couple of his more recent exes are, and he's met one of mine (same social circle). He's commented in passing on having had a slutty phase before meeting me and I'll jokingly tease him about it, but he's never asked about my sexual history or expressed any concern over what happened before him. And not to brag, but he could have had just about any woman he chose, so it's certainly not that he didn't have options and is secretly up at night stressing over how many penises I've looked at.

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[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

How interesting that you know more about my husband of ten years than I do.

No, he's just not all that concerned with things like this.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do not assume you know someone's partner better than they do. This exchange makes you look foolish. Stick to the men's subs.

[–]thesixthamethyst 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not the person you commented to, but I've been with my husband for 7 years and we've never had a conversation about past sexual partners. It's not that hard to believe, tons of people don't care to talk about that stuff, and genuinely don't care what someone's number is. It's never even come up, like I've never had to say, "I don't feel like I want to share that." I've never been asked in my life, and I've never asked anyone else.

And really, 7 years in, you just don't talk about that stuff at all anymore. Those are early dating types of conversations, not 7 years and 2 kids later types of conversations.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You just do it. Doesn’t have to do with them knowing. Reading comprehension.

[–]lightpinknails 24 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

First off, while it can be tempting to do things solely to please men and make them happy as RP women, I think it’s super important to never abandon our morals and what we know is right. Even if that means sacrificing a HVM relationship...because I think at the end of the day, this is what a true HVM would want in a woman.

So for starters, TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE A RIGHT. I wish I would have really realized this sooner. It’s a lie that we should sleep with a guy too soon just because we did it before and shouldn’t have. I understand your reasoning, but sleeping with a guy too soon just because he somehow is owed that is just wrong. I refuse to do that and every woman reading this should to.

And of course, lying is wrong and a terrible solution. We should be loved for who we are, not for someone we’re not. Again, let’s not be so desperate that we have to lie and sleep with a guy too soon. What does a person benefit if he gains the world but loses his soul? What does a woman benefit if she gains the HVM but lies and sacrifices her morals to get there? Personally, that’s too far for me.

I really do think that we as woman should be willing to pass up the HVM if it means we have to lie and sacrifice our morals to get there. I am okay with marrying a “less desirable” man if that man will accept my baggage as is and I don’t have to completely reinvent myself, lie, or sleep with him too soon and make the same mistake again.

Side note: I think a good strategy would definitely be to highlight the fact we’ve changed, which goes with your 3rd point. For me, I started being a Christian again so that is one dramatic way I changed. I also think one really important strategy is to simply not disclose too much information. I think it’s likely he won’t even ask for many details, so don’t give them to him if it’s not needed.

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[–]rosesonthefloor3 Star 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t see where she said anything about “not sacrificing anything of value” in her comment?

Lying to your partner isn’t a risk. It’s disrespectful. She’s saying if a HVM isn’t accepting of her past, then she’d walk away from that relationship, and preserve her integrity by maintaining honesty, even if it means she ends up with a “less desirable” man.

Would you prefer a partner that lies to you, if the lies sound pretty?

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[–]Knight_of_Inari 13 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It is very different, one option shows indecision and lack of commitment, the other shows faithfulness and devotion... unless the reason behind the break up were treason from your part, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

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[–]BrownGummyBear 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it’s SUPER different in my opinion.

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[–]solsticio21 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I would hope no sane, healthy woman would lock herself into marriage with a man that refers to other human beings (another woman no less) as "piece of meat" or "trashy meat." I would be mortified.

[–]Nandemodekiru 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was mortified reading that, Jesus Christ.

[–]rosesonthefloor3 Star 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Frankly, such behavior is a little terrifying.

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[–]solsticio21 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hitler was a horrendous person.

Hypothetically, Stacy (who has a high count) is a businesswoman with a proven track record and would be referred to as successful.

Laura (who has a high count) spends her time doing humanitarian work and would be referred to as a generous person.

You see? We can refer to bad people who do bad things as BAD. We can also refer to good people who do good things as GOOD. N-count does not equate to a person's value.

If a person would prefer a less experienced partner than that's okay! But sex drive is present in both genders and can be lower or higher for any individual. Instead of obsessing over the n-count of a woman you have an interest in (I have never been grilled or even asked about previous partners before, and it would be a creepy red flag if I was), you should focus on the type of person she is: does she make you happy, fulfill you, support you, and do you have similar interests?

[–]idnthaveausernam3 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A woman may be young and have poor boundaries and may have not grown up with the correct roll models. She might be more open to doing things she doesn't really want to do to gain approval when she is younger and more insecure. She might have tried a sex act and strongly disliked it. Now time has passed and she has had the chance to heal and develop as a person she has increased her boundaries and is sure of who she is and what she wants out of a relationship. It's up to you whether or not you want to be with a woman who has this sort of history, you are not obligated to date anyone who you feel isn't on the same page as you and doesn't have the same morals or goals.

However it doesn't sound like this post comes from an emotionally healthy or secure individual.

I think a man who is truly secure in himself or at least was able to think logically would work to understand things outside of his own emotions and would be able to see things from different angles and not twist reality based purely on how he feels.

It seems to me that you are creating a reality out of your own emotions, one that probably only exists in your mind. You feel inadequate as a person so you are fearfully projecting that onto a woman who has had other sexual partners because your worst fear is not living up to another man. It's the same as a woman finding out her significant other's ex is more conventionally attractive than her and not being able to get over it and refuses believe her partner when he says he would rather be with her and that he didn't like his ex as much as he likes her.

This is very different from wanting to abstain and wanting your partner to abstain from casual sex for religious, philosophical or moral reasons.

I think you need to work on yourself and your feelings of inadequacey and inferiority. Of course it's human to have insecurities and to feel jealous at times but it seems to me like it's effecting you quite badly to the point where your relationships are possibly suffering and where you don't feel good about yourself in general and to the point where you are projecting your fears onto reality.

Your confidence and self assuredness needs to come from within and from the recognition of your inherent value as a person, not from how a woman perceives you compared to other men. It sounds like you are looking for a woman to make you feel adequate about yourself.

[–]ithinkiamtrex 10 points11 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Reasons why men avoid women with lots of partners:

  1. Possibility of STD increases exponentially

  2. Why permanently commit to the woman with lots of partners when you can have short term relationship with same woman

  3. You're right about inexplicable feeling, it's feeling of "Oh look, his chic has been sleeping around with lots of dudes. His pp must be small, he must be terrible in bed or he must be asexual" and every other insults.

  4. Loyalty and trust issues

That's all I could formulate. But I think if a guy truly loves you, he won't care about the above points.

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[–]-Acta-Non-Verba- -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. Possibly sterile because of 1.

[–]party_dragon 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ladies, listen to this guy.

I’ve mostly dated virgins (unintentionally) but the one girl that wasn’t, I never even cared about the sex she had before me... because she made me feel like a king. “Oh my god”, “what are you doing to me”, “please fulfill my fantasy and fuck me in the ass” (which also happened to be my fantasy), “can I please suck your dick” (she initiated sex on the first date), “slow down you’re stretching me” and so on... she was insatiable, and I had all reason to believe that I was different (better) than her previous partners. Not to mention she practically fumbled her words when she first saw me. That’s hard to fake.

I’m not saying you should act like that... just that if you don’t (or at least in this general direction, she was probably above-average libido and adventurous, so her extreme attraction expressed thusly) you might be in a wrong relationship.

Which brings me to my additional advice for strategy (2): main issue “sluts” (that actually want relationships) have isn’t fucking on the first date, it’s fucking the wrong guys. So if you continue with strategy (2), it’s of utmost importance that you improve your screening skills and standards. Now I don’t have a lot of experience screening men so can’t directly give advice, and I seem to have a decent intuition screening women (probably because I was observing good behavioral patterns growing up), but the generic advice is just echoing Jordan Peterson: you already know what you should be doing! Red flags? Next! Dishonesty? Next! Fuckboy vibe? Next! Don’t delude yourself. Obviously “waiting 3 months” also works as a strategy to discourage fuckboys, but it’s a very low-effort, low-precision strategy.

[–]DrBoby 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a guy too, and while what you say is true, it doesn't mean N count isn't important too.

There are different factors adding or subtracting value and you can compensate one with another.

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[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

If n-count is irrelevant in an LTR then why do you advise woman to not reveal the real number..?? Isn't it honesty is more important in an LTR? why do you advise people to lie.. I think this is a bad advise. if a man find out about this later, he will be disgusted by that and it'll affect the relationship badly

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That is not what I'm saying... maybe that's what you meant there but your words also have another meaning. In my case it's seems like you just straight up encouraging people to lie in relationship. That's a biggest red flag. If a man want to know about your number maybe that's one of his criteria or standards not his insecurity . You have the option to tell him the real number or move but do not lie.. and he have the option to accept your past or move but not to judge you

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[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

So he thinks you are a liar? That's not right

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[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I get that if you're pretty and popular it's hard for a man to believe that you've been "behaving", but that question about threesomes is reaaalllyy odd. If disbelieveing you is not a pattern you've seen in him though, perhaps he's just being influenced by other people's experiences and is not a big deal.

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[–]DelicateDevelopment4 Star 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It is a projection that arises from their thoughts about what they would do if they had THAT many options as they think you had.

[–]GlutenFreePaperCup 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think your guy is a degenerate who wants to hear stories about you getting it.

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[–]LookingForEquanimity 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same. Never ever been asked. Was with a partner for 7 years and he never asked. Been with my current boyfriend for just under 2 years and he’s never asked either. And I never ask them because I don’t care. It’s really not that important for me to know.

[–]Pola_Lita 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But once a girl has, for example, a one-night stand, then that indicates something about what it takes to inspire her sexual enthusiasm, and if she she tries to put the brakes on with future partners, this tells them exactly where they stand in the scheme of things. This is why men find the news that his wife had a previous one night stand to be humiliating... she desired that other man more than she desired him.

I've met many men who are capable of understanding how time, place, current POV and her lowered ability to objectify men, along with whatever opinion she may hold about him at the moment, are all factors that contribute to her sexual interest or the lack of it. Few things are ever "all about him".

As far as being humiliated by the fact his wife's one night stand, unless this occurred during their agreed monogamy, there's definitely something wrong with his emotions or his logic.

Men don't care about the sexual past of their casual sex partners, but they care deeply about the sexual past of their romantic partners. This is because they know, even if they can't articulate it, that a woman is at her most sexually available and adventurous with the man she loves the most.

This is a fallacy, again involving the understanding that a woman's decisions about intimacy involve many factors in addition to how much or if she loves her partner. And not only will different women make different decisions for different reasons, an individual woman's decisions will vary from time to time in her life. It's natural and it's healthy, too.

It may be tempting to think that you can re-invent yourself as a virgin and simply raise your standards. We've seen plenty of women try to do this, and some of them even find partners. But what they do not find is enthusiastic partners who had other choices. Men who wife up an slut are men who don't have options, and there will reasons why they don't have those options.

Two things on this last paragraph. Any woman who tried to re-invent herself would probably be less than satisfied with the men who would be attracted to her, mainly because it's a bad idea. Your categorization of women as either virgins or sluts, as well as your estimation of those men who choose women whose behaviors you don't approve of make me wonder if you truly appreciate the intellectual/emotional understanding that many people have of themselves and others around them.

Things are never black and white, tastes vary and jealousy is almost always a problem in the one feeling it.

[–]clitorophagy 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

This seems like an older man’s perspective. We shall see how it holds as time goes on.

A man who worries about a woman’s past seems insecure and weak for asking.

[–]Animeshounen 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Shaming tactics!!! Why am I not surprised

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[–]rosesonthefloor3 Star 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or a man with self-respect wouldn’t feel threatened since the woman is obviously choosing to be with him. As an example.

I mean, do what you want, have whatever preferences you want, whatever. It’s all fine! But there’s more nuance to the situation than “man must have no self-respect to be with woman with high partner count.” Some people just don’t care.

You’re free to care, and free to vet based upon that. Just not everyone does.

[–]DrBoby 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you ask you don't necessarily ask because you are insecure. You want to know her so it's normal to ask questions about her past. Also you usually learn things like that indirectly.

[–]teachmemasterP 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But why can't sex for both men & women be seen as a human function without morality attached to it like being hungry and having dinner?

Instead we have made past sexual partners a reflection of worth tied into ego and filled with mind games, restrictions and morals.

Men & women both want and enjoy sex and their past ability to satisfy their needs does not increase or decrease a "value" that we in society have given each other.

I think the reason why it bothers men more when a woman's sexual history is only 3 one night stands compared to when a woman has had a 4 year relationship (and so had more sex) is not because of the 'stretched out theory' as obviously here that makes no sense and this is a very common situation but instead is because historically men needed to know they weren't being cuckolded but today I think there is a lot of the male ego attached to a woman choosing to have sex with them - they want to feel unique and special (which most people do in romantic love in some way). Or they want to feel like it makes them physically attractive if a woman they're physically attracted to has chosen them.

Men don't seem to understand the fact that women can and should want to have and enjoy sex and so if she chooses someone to have sex with it doesn't devalue her or add value to them for the simple fact she choose to have sex with them - when men can acknowledge this and realise it is no reflection on either party's "worth" then I'm sure everyone would feel better.

I've noticed a lot of men prefer a woman when at first she doesn't want to have sex with them and wasn't interested but then they 'grind her down' or she 'played hard to get' trope - this is just misogyny and a deep insecurity on the man's part. Their self-esteem is so low they think anyone who immediately has sex with them is stupid.

If both parties felt secure in themselves why would they need to ask about how many sexual partners the other person had?

If someone has been a sex worker in their past they are bound to have more sexual partners, or if someone has been raped multiple times or even if they just went to college compared to someone who stayed in a small town but how would that ever mean their current partner is not special, unique or valued.

We just need to stop tying sex and value together as it damages everyone.

[–]DelicateDevelopment4 Star 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are biologically wired to selectively choose the man with whom they have sex. The whole concept is based on men being abundant, such that the woman can not only choose with whom she wants to have sex but also whom she wants to be the provider. That is the whole concept behind the sexual strategy of female selection.

Based on that assumption every women should in principle also by deciding with whom she has sex decide with whom she wants to be in a relationship.

So deep down in our lizard brains every sex partner that is not followed by a relationship makes the women feel as if she has been rejected and used. That does not decrease her value as a human being but it can have emotional consequences and then it will decrease her RMV. Because these emotional consequences will affect not necessarily her ability to pair bond, but it will decrease her ability to trust, to be open, to be vulnerable. She will loose her own feeling of being valuable. She could turn into a femcel, a woman that feels she has given everything but did not getting anything in return.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But why can't sex for both men & women be seen as a human function without morality attached to it like being hungry and having dinner?

It can be. Just date people with those values. It's honestly not hard, not sure why everyone in this sub pretends otherwise. Who the hell are these guys asking about all you ladies' histories, anyway? No one's pulled that with me since freshman year of college.

[–]mensahi41 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If both parties felt secure in themselves why would they need to ask about how many sexual partners the other person had?

Risk for STDs? Maybe he got other women pregnant? I wouldn't ask a woman for it probably because I don't care that much. But there are valid reasons to ask.

We just need to stop tying sex and value together as it damages everyone.


[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the best post I’ve ever seen in this sub!

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[–]yungsweetro2 Stars 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t disagree with your sentiments - you’re free to make any conclusion you’d like about who you’re dating. But I don’t agree at all that all women are lying about their number. I told my SO I was a virgin and it was the truth. It was an important thing he needed to know about why I took things slow or why I was a bad kisser, bad at flirting, etc.

I imagine there are many women my age who have an N-count of 1 or 2 out there who aren’t lying as well. Considering that the average Gen Z woman has 2.6 sex partners, statistically you don’t have much reason to think she’s lying at all. Making a blanket rule like “all women lie about their n-count” is counterproductive, and if a guy I was dating automatically assumed I was lying, He would be nexted immediately and would turn off many real low N-count women for being so pessimistic.

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[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your personal preferences are not advice and you haven't spent enough time in trp to be here.

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[–]solsticio21 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You do not tell or send her anything, you have no right to reprimand her about her past or guilt her into changing anything for you because you feel like she had a slutty past.

You should reevaluate for yourself if she would be a good partner for you, the way she is now. If she is loving and cares for you, isn't that what is important? And even if she is, but you want to hold her history against her, then just move on to someone else that you deem to be a better match!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

anyone can get a nose job whats so great about that??

[–]yungsweetro2 Stars 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it was more of an example of taking a definitive measure to improve your SMV. Sure, SMV is what men instinctively look for because their lizard brain subconsciously tells them that it’ll make for healthier offspring, but the conscious mind doesn’t think like that at all. Your instant, visual attraction to someone is not gonna take into consideration that the nose may be fake.

If you were born with a conventionally unattractive nose, you’d realistically open up your options to so many more men who now would notice how good looking you are because you had a nose job. Sure, a subset of men are turned off by plastic surgery, but the nose job lets you get your foot in the door for men neutral on plastic surgery that wouldn’t have noticed you without it. The best of the best nose jobs are so natural, he wouldn’t even be able to tell.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

makes sense

[–]doom2345 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Anyone can be born gorgeous - what's so great about that?" It's not a heroic test of doing something difficult to prove your worth. It's just that you were "transformed" in some significant way into a more desirable partner - that's usually about appearance but could be something else as well. For example:

e.g. "It's okay if you gave it to him very easy in the past because that was your level. But he would have never gotten you at your current, much higher, level."

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

umm men look for good looks for better offspring, whats so great abt a nose thats not from your genetics.

thats the entire smv thing

[–]doom2345 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Definitely. But this is a separate issue. It's not about your desirability. It's about rationalizing why you slept with some other guy(s) quickly and not with him (or even if you did sleep with him just as quickly - why other guys too? why isn't he special?).

[–]rosesonthefloor3 Star 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m late so this will probably get buried but I’m so curious what the sub would think about people who were in open relationships or played with others as a part of their relationship?

It still raises your count, but is within the bounds of a relationship.... so I’m just so curious how that would fit into OP’s sort of mentality?

[–]DunboyCastleInTheSky -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a woman with a high body count, I agree that a lot of this is true. However, I don’t agree with the less desirability aspect. I might be the exception to that though and not the rule.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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