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Sometimes good men give bad gifts.

TheTwincessMaker
January 28, 2022
121 upvotes
/r/RedPillWomen

Edit: My husband, of course, buys me gifts. He just rarely surprises me with one.

I haven't been on Reddit much these last few days and still, I've managed to stumble on this post and wanted to offer my perspective:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/seg6ai/i_dumped_the_guy_i_was_vetting_over_the_birthday/

The post I've linked above is written by a woman who told her boyfriend not to get her a birthday gift, because she was offended he asked what she wanted. When he ordered a bouquet of cookies for her, she broke up with him by ghosting, because he should know she eats healthy and she was so offended.

  1. If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes, so don't tell a man you don't expect a gift when you do.
  2. Don't get offended if your boyfriend of six months doesn't know exactly what you want, especially when you claim you truly don't need anything, as the poster did.
  3. If you say no gift and are lucky enough to get one anyway, don't be ungrateful and complain! Say thank you, even if it's off the mark, especially if you've only been dating for six months.
  4. Even if you eat really healthy, it's totally normal for people to splurge on their birthday. Birthday cake is a thing for a reason. Perhaps a fruit arrangement would have been a better choice for this man, but the poster's reaction was way out of proportion when her guy had never experienced a birthday with her and didn't know if she let loose or not.
  5. Never break up with someone by ghosting them. It's a horrible, lazy, thing to do, especially over cookies.

On May 6, 2017, I married the absolute perfect man for me... and my stars is he not perfect, just like the woman he married. One way he's not perfect is in the gift giving department. For our first Valentine's Day, he gave me a cute jar filled with Reese's, my favorite candy. We both found the holiday a bit silly and had agreed to go small with gifts. My husband, however, didn't buy enough candy and filled up the jar with some I already had in my freezer. He gave me my own candy... and I thanked him and laughed. Now, it's become a cherished memory and that jar sits on his dresser, making me smile every time I see it, because sometimes good men suck at giving gifts!

This past Christmas was the first time in seven years that my husband has surprised me with a present (Edit: He, of course, buys me gifts, but I'm rarely surprised). He bought me the necklace that matched the earrings I'd asked for for my birthday and I was elated, because he's just not great at coming up with the perfect present. He must be too busy working hard to provide for his family, fixing things around the house, making dinner at least half the time, playing with our daughters, clearing the quarter acre of brush in our backyard, building shelves for every room of our house, picking up grocery orders so I don't have to get our girls out in the cold, chopping firewood, helping me clean, planting a garden... the list goes on and on.

I married a good man, ladies. He's one of the best... and he's meh at gift giving. Even when we were dating, he opened doors, bought me dinner, planned fun dates, comforted me when I cried, made me laugh, introduced me to new things, changed my brake pads, loved on my dog, cooked for me, and that list goes on too. It just doesn't include giving me amazing presents.

Now, maybe this was the last straw for this poster and she'd previously had other issues. I don't know, but the comments suggest the mindset I'm getting from the poster is at least rampant among other women. When you're in a relationship, with another imperfect being, you have to look at the whole picture. Even if gifts are your "love language", a concept I find to be oversimplified and likely untrue for this poster who claimed she needed nothing, your partner might not be great at giving them at the very start. People grow and learn about each other and sometimes... they just come up short in some areas. No one is perfect, but regardless, in the face of any gift given with good intent, gratitude is the best response.

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Post Information
Title Sometimes good men give bad gifts.
Author TheTwincessMaker
Upvotes 121
Comments 75
Date January 28, 2022 5:48 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/sometimes-good-men-give-bad-gifts.1099224
https://theredarchive.com/post/1099224
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/sewd31/sometimes_good_men_give_bad_gifts/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Interesting perspective. I myself don’t expect amazing gifts. I’m not big into giving gifts either so I usually ask for what he wants and gets exactly what’s on his list. I’d even prefer him to just get stuff off my list so that I don’t have to buy those things myself but he’s usually more thoughtful and prefers to surprise me. For some reason though, flowers and treats mean a lot to me even if they happened to not be exactly what I enjoy eating(unless he knows I don’t like something and still gets it).

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I love it when my husband stops by the general store and gets me a candy bar or bag of chips as a surprise. It's just sweet to know he thought of me, but he doesn't do it very often. For holidays and birthdays, I usually tell him how much I'm spending on him, so he can get something comparable.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same, it’s so sweet when he thinks of me and gets me something small I like. It also happens very infrequently and I’ve had to ask for him to do it more

[–]dietwindows 58 points59 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad I follow both FDS and this subreddit, because when I see insane shit on FDS, I need what little faith I have in humanity restored.

From what I can tell, those ladies entirely lack sympathy for any human that's man-shaped, and they're wildly materialistic. Basically a recipe for creating your own misery.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't follow it, myself, because it's infuriating that these women have such ridiculous standards and judge men for the same. I hate that they're giving such awful advice and that other women are wasting their best years following it.

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't sweat it too much. Here's something I learned from eleven years of running TRP: you cannot help someone without their active cooperation.

There's enough work to do right here, with people who have already decided they want and value your advice, that you have no reason to waste time regretting the woes of those you don't appreciate the value of what you have to offer.

[–]cen-texan 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And the FDS echo chamber told her how right she is for being a complete fucking bitch.

[–]Anonymous_fiend 31 points32 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My fiance sucks at gift giving. But it's neither of our love languages. At first I thought he wasn't thoughtful since it seemed like he grabbed random things as gifts. But then I realized how cute it is when he grabs things that remind him of me. He randomly suprises me with little catci or other plants when he goes to home depot. Sometimes he'll get me some things I really like when he asks his sister for advice lol. Thinking that gifts define a relationship is really shallow and assuming the worst.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thinking that gifts define a relationship is really shallow and assuming the worst.

This sums the problem up nicely. A bad gift, given with good intentions, still deserves a thank you. These are literally kindergarten rules.

[–]kisseachother 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

For real. I love dark chocolate and I'm pretty snobby about it. I avoid certain ingredients, can't stand anything under 70%, and have favorite brands. I tell my husband this but he still buys me cheap crap I don't like. And I love him for it. The gesture is what matters to me. I have a whole lifetime to guide him towards buying the right thing, but I'm never going to get mad or upset when he buys the wrong thing.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel this so much. My husband bought me those individually wrapped Starbursts, as a stocking stuffer, because I love candy. I'm weird about texture, though, and he knows it. More often than not, if I won't eat something, it's because of the texture. My husband frequently jokes about it and sometimes it even very low-key annoys him, particularly since it's apparent our daughters are going to be the same way. I know I've told him I don't like those miniature Starbursts, because they have a gritty texture. He knows I love pink Starbursts, though, and he was trying to be nice. It was a sweet gesture and it was fine, just like the year he bought me a giant Ferrero Rocher, not realizing that it was hollow inside, save for two chocolates.

[–]amadexodus 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In my experience, there's a lot of selfish, entitled, petty women on r/FemaleDatingStrategy who have nothing but suspicion and disdain for the men in their lives. It's almost the polar opposite of this subreddit. Have a look at the comments on that post and compare them to the comments here; you'll find the OP in FDS is sadly not an outlier.

All I care about with my Captain's gifts to me is that I can see the effort in the gift (i.e. he pays attention to what I'm about, he noticed something I needed, he remembered something I said that suggested I would like it, etc.). We are different in that he leans more on the practical side than the sentimental side, but I am grateful no matter what it is because he is a good guy, he's my guy, and he tried.

[–]riskykitten1207 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My husband is a good man who also gives bad gifts.

Our first valentines together he waited until the end of the day then bought me one of the leftovers from Walmart. I was so annoyed with it. He often gets me gifts that are not for me. He is bad about giving people things that he likes. For example, the other day he brought me a Starbucks drink and a candy bar that I don’t really like (but it’s totally a flavor he would want.) I don’t drink coffee and I especially dislike cold coffee. We have been together 10 years. He should know what I don’t like. Alas, he shows up with this stuff all proud of himself.

It took me a few years to accept that this is just how he is. I stopped comparing him to my best friends husband who is amazing at gift giving. I started reminding myself of all the ways he is amazing in his own way. He is very much an “acts of service” guy. He will literally do anything for me. If he doesn’t know how then he learns. These acts of service don’t typically come in the form of a gift but as a mom with 3 kids, I appreciate it so much that he will help me around the house without asking and with no complaints.

He isn’t romantic. He doesn’t buy thoughtful gifts. He often forgets gift giving occasions all together. He is, also, many other things when I need it. He is a mechanic and a handyman. He is willing to help with dinner, dishes, laundry, and general cleaning around the house (although not often because I am a SAHM). He helps the kids with their homework. He is a great husband and father. There is no better gift than that.

[–]Advanced_Bar_673 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This woman is, clearly, a ton of fun at parties. The man had the AUDACITY to send cookies to her hotel on her birthday!?!? Shut the front door and banish him forever.

Conscious gratitude helps shift so much. If I find myself getting pouty or frustrated or wanting my guy to do something "my way", I try to reflect on things he has recently done or said that have been kind, thoughtful, generous or helpful, and it puts into perspective all the things he does to make my life better.

The man in the FDS post dodged a bullet.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. What my husband excels at definitely outweighs what he doesn't. I hope he feels the same way about me.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 17 points18 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

What I find the craziest is all the comments saying that the guy shouldn’t have even asked if she wanted something in the first place, and how that alone was enough grounds to leave him. How dare a man communicate openly and directly?! How dare he try to gauge what your expectations are and see how he can accommodate them to make you happy on your birthday in a relatively new relationship?! What a manipulative monster!!!

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I even think it's fair, depending on the relationship, to wonder if they're "there" yet. My husband didn't buy me a birthday present when we'd been together for three months. He took me out and we did fun things together, but he told me point blank he had no idea what to get me. I don't think that's a stretch at six months. This guy tried to be open and honest, as you said, and she broke up with him for it. That's insane.

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's called a "covert contract", and it's a recipe for disappointment. Basically what you do is decide you have an agreement with someone, and they have an obligation based on that... but you don't tell them what you think they're supposed to do. You just expect them to do it.

It's really nice when other people can guess what we want, but that's the exception, not the rule. It's a feat of interpretation and guesswork, and no one is going to have a very high batting average.

One of my girlfriends is a lot better at reading me than the other is. I have two choices about this... I can either be happy that one of them is so good at this, or be a petulant toddler, and throw tantrums that everyone I have a relationship with can't read my mind all the time.

Guess which mindset will make me more happy overall.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I used to be the QUEEN of covert contracts. When I was 18 and quite frankly a little brat. It was no surprise that I couldn’t find a stable and committed relationships for the life of me until I addressed my attitude and extremely unrealistic expectation for the men in my life to be Prince Charming that just knows perfectly what I want and how to act. For OP to still be acting like this, when she’s old enough to be going on important business trips, is pretty unseemly.

One of my girlfriends is a lot better at reading me than the other is.

If I had to make an educated guess, would this be FunSize, who’ve you’ve been with for much longer? I have a theory - you don’t just find someone who can finish your sentences and know you so well that they can read you like an open book. You only get there after years and years of interaction, bonding, and intimacy. For OP to expect some guy she’s only known for 6 months to know that she finds it impolite for people to ask about gifts, or that she places such a deep importance of her hatred of all things artificially colored, is so unrealistic. Just because she mentions that she’s a very clean eater and how often she checks ingredient lists doesn’t mean any normal person knows what that entails.

It sounds like she’s going to have a miserable dating experience if she continues to have the expectation for a man who just “gets” her immediately. On top of that, much less people than we think are naturally intuitive enough to be able to pick up on the little things. Is that really a reason to throw away a whole person and burn your bridges?

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

For OP to still be acting like this, when she’s old enough to be going on important business trips, is pretty unseemly.

That's because, ironically, FDS doesn't know how to vet.

They're thinking of vetting wrong. They think of vetting as "eliminating low-value males from consideration". But it's super easy to do that... just reject everyone. Foolproof.

The real purpose of vetting is to identify men who have a robust reciprocal response. That's all. It's not about his morals or whether you like him, or want to be with him. It's about "Will he repay kindness freely given?".

Then, from the pool of men you have vetted for this one trait, you date the ones you're most attracted to and most want to be with, until something clicks.

But in order to see if a man will repay a kindness freely given, you have to be willing to freely give a kindness. FDS reader typically are too damaged to do that... it feels too much like vulnerability, rather than a test, and they are not willing to be vulnerable.

If I had to make an educated guess, would this be FunSize, who’ve you’ve been with for much longer?

Yes, but it's not because I've been with her longer. It's because FunSize has a special talent... a sort hyper-empathy of overdeveloped mirror neurons. Do not play any game with her that involves bluffing or deception. You will lose, badly, every time.

you don’t just find someone who can finish your sentences and know you so well that they can read you like an open book. You only get there after years and years of interaction, bonding, and intimacy.

I talk about this somewhat on the male side.

When you're picking up girls for sex, then you want to look like "Chad", the guy who has lots of girls chasing him, and is indifferent to whether any one of them does what he wants or not, because any one of them isn't fun... just spend saturday night with someone else.

But when you're in a relationship, you have to be able to say what you want. Because otherwise, your only way to get it is to end the relationship, and choose randomly from the pile again, hoping you'll hit closer to your ideal mark.

Which doesn't work, of course. Optimization is a feedback process.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The real purpose of vetting is to identify men who have a robust reciprocal response. That's all. It's not about his morals or whether you like him, or want to be with him. It's about "Will he repay kindness freely given?".

Then, from the pool of men you have vetted for this one trait, you date the ones you're most attracted to and most want to be with, until something clicks.

Wow, that is literally the perfect epitome of what I was trying to say in my very lengthy Incremental Reciprocation post, but you’ve said everything I needed to say and more in two tiny paragraphs!!! You have an amazing knack at getting to the meat of these issues.

But in order to see if a man will repay a kindness freely given, you have to be willing to freely give a kindness. FDS reader typically are too damaged to do that... it feels too much like vulnerability, rather than a test, and they are not willing to be vulnerable.

And funnily enough, giving kindness freely and having your kindness unreturned actually hurts you much less than giving only your body and having casual sex and having unreturned commitment. They don’t understand that vulnerability is often the catalyst for men to want to provide protection and care, and by withholding their kindness they are really just preventing that catalyst in the first place.

It's because FunSize has a special talent... a sort hyper-empathy of overdeveloped mirror neurons. Do not play any game with her that involves bluffing or deception. You will lose, badly, every time.

Oooh, I’m jealous of that skill of hers! I’ve always wanted to be able to pick up on people’s tells and true thoughts! I’m actually pretty bad at that, and I require a lot of talking and time spent with a person to really know what they’re like and what their motives are. I usually only figure out a friend is a not so great person when I’m in deeper than I want to be. Remind me to never play poker with y’all - she would definitely pick up on my terrible poker face 😂

When you're picking up girls for sex, then you want to look like "Chad", the guy who has lots of girls chasing him, and is indifferent to whether any one of them does what he wants or not, because any one of them isn't fun... just spend saturday night with someone else.

But when you're in a relationship, you have to be able to say what you want. Because otherwise, your only way to get it is to end the relationship, and choose randomly from the pile again, hoping you'll hit closer to your ideal mark.

This is actually one of my favorite TRP topics: indifference game vs. control game!! The former, I think, puts women in competition mode because they want to be the one to move his heart which means they will maximize their RMV/SMV for him, while the latter puts women into submission mode, because he’s shown that he’s capable of telling you what he wants from you and actually making you want to give it to him.

Which doesn't work, of course. Optimization is a feedback process.

You can’t find unicorns in the wild! You build one (or in your case, two)!

[–]eatapeach18 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What kind of person asks someone if they want a gift for their birthday? Of course we want gifts for our birthday, but in an effort to be diplomatic, we would never say “yes, of course I want you to give me birthday presents!” This is something a child would say.

Don’t ever ask someone if they want a gift. If you see something that makes you think of them and you know they would like it, then just give it to them as a gift. And if you’ve been dating someone for six months, you should give them a birthday gift.

[–]Apocalypseistheansw 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m a person who don’t like to receive gift. So what now?

You’re just assuming that idea based on yourself, but always remember ppl are not the same as you.

Asking shouldn’t be a problem, it’s communication and it’s completely important. A bigger problem is to condemn someone to make a question looking for the best.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Of course we want gifts for our birthday, but in an effort to be diplomatic, we would never say “yes, of course I want you to give me birthday presents!”

Why would you need to be diplomatic with a man who could potentially be your life partner? Isn’t the goal to form an actual connection, and not play some weird political game where you can’t even communicate openly with each other? You are creating a covert contract by saying you don’t want anything for your birthday, and expecting something anyways.

Men and women communicate very differently. When a man asks if you want something for your birthday, he means it at face-value. He is also asking you if that’s something you’re okay with, in a relatively new relationship. There is no hidden message behind it - he is not trying to make you seem eager for gifts like a child. That’s a projection that YOU made.

You can get a little creative - navigating social interaction gracefully is a feminine art. “Aw, does that mean you’ve been thinking about me and what to get me? 😉 well now I’m dying to see what you decide on!” To be honest, it’s totally fine to just tell him straight up too - “that’s so kind of you! I appreciate you remembering my birthday and wanting to make it special. It would mean a lot to me if you did.”

And if you’ve been dating someone for six months, you should give them a birthday gift.

“Should” just means “I want”. So you want people to get you birthday gifts after 6 months of dating, but you have no intention of communicating this to them and no intention of doing something to make them WANT to give you a birthday gift. Do you see how you’re digging yourself into a hole with that mentality? People are not mind readers.

[–]eatapeach18 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I still don’t understand why someone would ask their significant other if they want a birthday gift. If you have to ask, then you’re a lame partner. Sorry if that’s too blunt, but I never ask my husband if he wants a birthday present. I always get him something, make him a fancy cake, and either cook his favorite dinner or go out to a nice restaurant.

[–]anothergoodbook 15 points16 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I love giving gifts. I love getting gifts. My husband likes neither. I’ve taken to just sending him a list of things that I would like (more like the category of things). However I sent him my list AFTER he purchased my gift. Surprise. Surprise he got me something from the list!

I learned long, long ago however to stop holding onto this idea that he needed to get me the perfect gift or he didn’t care about me. I focused on his actions toward me and our kids.

If they’ve been dating 6 months she hasn’t had a birthday yet together. Perhaps he didn’t know her thoughts on gifts and wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt instead of just assuming? And it sounds like he didn’t send cheapy cookies either. Maybe they sounded good to him? Fine if that’s a deal breaker, but man does it sound like he’s dodging a bullet.

BTW that subreddit is gross lol.

[–]BumbleBitny 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm a lover of gift giving and a gift receiving as well, my husband hates everything to do with it. I have a fun story about our anniversary last year.

We celebrated our 5th wedding anniversary last August and my gift was a 2 foot tall orchid in a pot that cost about $100. Backstory here I absolutely hate gardening or maintaining plants of any kind. In the 8 years we've lived together there has never been a single living plant in our household. I've killed the few I've tried to keep alive before we lived together. We have 4 cats, cats that try and eat my artificial plants regularly. I said I wanted a pair of earrings that he picked out because I thought it would be sweet to own a pair that he picked for me. He knows literally all of this information but somehow decided the most particular plant would make a good gift for me. I don't know if you know anything about orchids but they need to be watered at specific times, only when the soil is dry but not too dry. They shouldn't be given tap water because they're too sensitive to handle anything apparently, and they need to live somewhere with a specific humidity.

That orchid is still alive today on a cart so if the cats jump on it it'll move and scare them, a soil dryness meter, it's own personal humidifier, and only has bottled water used to water it. It was a terrible gift for me but he loved me enough to spend a ridiculous amount of money on something he thought was pretty and would make me smile. Now I take it as a personal challenge to keep that high maintenance plant alive.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

See. This is the perfect example of good intentions gone wrong, but still being good intentions. OP's boyfriend didn't give a nice bottle of whiskey to a recovering alcoholic and neither did your husband. It's so sweet that you saw his intent and are trying to keep that orchid alive. I do have a bunch of plants and that orchid would totally be dead by now. 😂

[–]anothergoodbook 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh my gosh - that’s too funny.

As an aside - I havealways killed plants. I’ve managed to keep 2 orchids alive for the last couple of years (and they rebloomed). I totally give them tap water. I water every week or every other week. I just soak them through, but make sure they drains. I go by how their roots look! And my one at home has a special window that it loves (it got sad when I moved it away from there). I’ve killed probably 5-6 orchid prior to this lol.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My husband and I do this, too! I send him links throughout the year of things I like, so if he's at a loss, he has inspiration. I was so surprised this year when I'd mentioned that necklace a couple of times and he actually got it for me. He's so amazing in so many ways. He doesn't have to check every box, even if I do love giving presents.

Yes, I actually saw that post screenshot on the front page of Reddit, on some other subreddit. It gives me hope that the comments were not in OP's favor.

[–]metajenn 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree! I'm not the best gift picker and my close friends are a mixed bag at how good they are at choosing gifts. A few years ago me and the other friends/family who have bad gifting skills started sharing our amazon lists and holidays/birthdays have become WAY better.

How good someone's gifts match your expectations is a ridiculous way to measure them. But that sub is all around pretty ridiculous.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of the responses that agree the gift was bad had me trying to remember what my husband got me as a gift, after a similar length of time. We'd have been together for six months at Christmas. He got me a gift card to my favorite candy store and some candy he knew I liked. I remember being mildly disappointed that it wasn't more sentimental, but I didn't say anything and I'm glad. It was a sweet gesture, end of story.

[–]chowchowfluff 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This should be an interesting story to tell her next BF:

Him: So why did you and your ex breakup?

Her: He bought me cookies on my birthday and I ghosted him for it.

Lol. What?

If I was friends with that girl I would have told her she was being a petty brat.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She needs friends to tell her that and I hope she sees that most of Reddit thinks so. I don't even know how you tell the next guy about that.

[–]TP_Crisis_2020 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She won't be honest about it. If the next guy asks, she will just say that her ex was an abusive asshole misogynist or something that paints herself as the victim.

[–]unimageenable 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly it seems like FDS woman's trash is RPW's gold. It's crazy how they expect the men to give everything - money, love, commitment - in return for ... Nothing? Looking good, at most?

These women really think that men OWE then something. They throw away perfectly good men (who, by the way, are also vetting them) because they don't jump into offering commitment after 1 month of "talking" (not sure what that even means): https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/sdt4t6/i_walked_away_when_my_needs_werent_met/

So the woman pressures him for commitment when he isn't ready (1 month mark) but doesn't say what she ever did to earn that commitment. (Oh, and he's been paying for all her meals and dates, too). Everyone agrees that the man should love and worship her and give her commitment just because she's so wonderful. There is no discussion of nuances as to whose RMV or SMV is higher because according to FDS, men are scum and automatically have lower RMV/SMV. No wonder it doesn't get them anywhere (with HVM at least).

That's the problem in most of these posts and the one you mention, OP.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am comforted to know that the rest of Reddit calls them femcels. I don't think the majority of women think to this extreme.

[–]ABrowne22 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Female dating strategy tends to encourage toxic behaviour that I wouldn't tolerate and strangely conservative notions of love that strike me as a counter to the idea of two equal autonomous people being in a loving relationship.

Anyway, I am not good at gift-giving, but I try to listen and understand what my girlfriend likes and try to just put thought into and like what I want to share with her.

In the end, we love each other for other reasons than the expectations around gift-giving, such as mutual respect, integrity, care and empathy.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's very strange that gift giving would be such a dealbreaker for someone. Perhaps they're just incredibly self-absorbed and don't realize that people have an entire range of feelings about birthdays and gifts. I know people who consider it just another day and others who take off work every year to celebrate (like me). I'd never assume another person has the same feelings I do.

[–]ABrowne22 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Totally

[–]Sad-Strength8787 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I am so shocked by those comments. Just downright delusional and just plain evil. Like seriously?? I’m truly in disbelief. My husband has gotten me gifts from yard sales and goodwill for Pete’s sake! He got me fruit snacks once lol! A gift is a gift. My husband has also gifted me beautiful jewelry and clothes. I’m happy to receive it all. Those women are so entitled and just downright rude!

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think the rudeness is the biggest offense. If she feels unheard, that's understandable, but say thank you and wait to see if this is a pattern of behavior. What did he get her for Christmas? What other attributes does he have? If he's not impressing her in other ways, sure, move on, but still say thank you for the gift before breaking up for the general lack of compatibility.

[–]Sad-Strength8787 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Like I have a neighbor who gave me muffins as a gift. I simply told her thank you. As soon as I went inside I threw them away because I don’t eat muffins. That doesn’t mean I’m going to cut her off because she gave me a “bad” gift. A simple thank you goes a long way. When I give someone a gift I honestly don’t care what they do with it after. But acknowledging me and thanking me is what I appreciate. It’s really that simple.

[–]WeWearMirrors 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd say this woman wasn't really happy in the relationship and was just looking for a reason to end things. Maybe she generally felt like they were a bad match and this pushed her over the edge.

Also - objectively, I can see that some men just aren't into gift giving. But I know that I would have been hurt if some guy asked me whether I wanted a present after we'd dated for six months. It's an odd question and to me, it implies that he wanted her to say no. And after that, I'd feel bewildered if he then got me something that I'd been vocal about hating.

Sure, everyone can break their diet sometimes, so in theory she should be able to appreciate a treat. But it sounds like he got her really junk-y, artificially flavored cookies. Maybe she'd have felt different if he bought her fudge, or truffles, or something luxurious.

[–]squarepancakesx 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post. I'm one of those people who loves giving gifts and have been told that my gifts are always so amazingly good and well thought out.

On the other hand, my partner is one of those people who is cliche and boring with his gifts and plans boring events. Even when he proposed to me, it was in the most cheesy cliche manner; I was horrified (in a I just want to get out of here way). But I love him. And I know he tried.

Sometimes I can't help but compare him to my best friend's husband's who are so thoughtful and sweet in their ways. But I know my partner cares and loves me in his own way, always offering to pick me up even when I'm out with friends at night and it's out of his way. It's one of those things I'm learning to be contented about and yes, like you've said, some men just suck at things like surprises and gifts. But it's not the end of the world and we should be grateful for each other and embrace our individual expression of love.

[–]Rispy_Girl 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Here here. If it's expected and has certain unspoken hoops that must be jumped through it is not a gift, it is a test and/or a covert contract.

Also I think that asking what the other person wants and getting what they choose is best. This Christmas I carefully thought it and chose three gifts and let him choose what he wants. The nice thing is you can hear the reasons behind their decision making and incorporate them into future gifting searches.

Brag time : my hubby got me a copper bowl. If you ladies whisk up egg whites and are on the fence on spending so much for a measly bowl let me assure you that it is totally worth it and you should do it. 😊

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's a fun idea! I did that with a couple of stocking stuffers. I was going to send one back and then decided to let him decide or keep both.

Also, I feel bad for not including the sound bar and the massage gift card my husband got me for Christmas.

[–]Rispy_Girl 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, those help tip the scales. Those are really nice gifts

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He did a great job this year... and I'd have loved him either way.

[–]Rispy_Girl 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I'm the same 😊 thankfully he's the same with me too. No matter what we get each other there are thank yous and appreciation

[–]SuperWriter07 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I don't think what she decided to do was wrong— just that she went about it in the wrong way.

6 months is enough to know what a thoughtful gift would be. His gift doesn't sound thoughtful at all. I'd have felt unimportant if a man gave me some one-size-fits-all kind of gift.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Breaking up with someone because your priorities don't align is fine. Throwing a tantrum and ghosting someone you've been with for six months because they sent you a cookie bouquet is petty and hateful. I think that's especially true in this scenario, because OP told him she didn't want anything. In that case, sending a one-size-fits-all gift is still a kind gesture, in my opinion.

Six months might be enough time to know what a thoughtful gift would be if the relationship is at the right point and gift giving is something you're good at and enjoy. Many men aren't and don't. If she can't be with that guy... well, I think that's ridiculous, because no one is perfect, but that's her decision and deal breaker to make. I agree that the way she did it is the worst offense.

[–]cen-texan 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Throwing a tantrum and ghosting someone you've been with for six months because they sent you a cookie bouquet is petty and hateful.

Welcome to the world of FDS. Where HVM are supposed to know every in and out of the woman they are dating, and any singular misstep on his part will result in his automatically being ejected. She dumped him and ghosted him, but HE dodged a bullet.

[–]eatapeach18 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think you missed the point entirely.

I agree that this woman lacked tact. Her outburst was childish, and ghosting him was even more juvenile.

But if you’ve been with someone for six months and you know they have dietary restrictions, why would you get them a basket filled with junk you know they can’t eat? It lacks thought. A gorgeous bouquet of flowers and a card would have been better.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Being health conscious is not a dietary restriction. It's a personal decision that many people set aside for a special occasion like a birthday.

[–]eatapeach18 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly. It’s a personal decision. The woman didn’t choose to cheat on her diet by indulging in junk. Her boyfriend took it upon himself to make that decision for her. He probably thought she would make an exception and eat the cookies because 1. it was her birthday, and 2. the cookies were from him. He was wrong on both counts.

Like I said, he could have gotten her flowers. It’s more romantic and definitely a safe option for someone with a strict diet.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She also could have just said thank you, instead of being an ungrateful shrew. There's a lot of "could have" going on in this story. Not everyone loves flowers, either. I'd find that to be a frivolous and wasteful gift, but I've still said thank you any time I've gotten them. He didn't buy chocolates for a diabetic. He bought cookies for a woman he's known for six months, thinking she'd appreciate the gesture on her birthday, a perfectly reasonable assumption when she said she didn't want anything.

[–]adambrukirer 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

That gift was definitely terrible. At the same time though, she asked for no gift firmly. Play stupid games win stupid prizes like you said

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if I agree that it was so terrible, just misguided. He got her cookies for her birthday. Even the crunchiest splurge on their birthday and this is the first one he's known her.

My husband made an interesting point that it reads like OP is trying to force her eating habits on him, something I hadn't noticed. It sounds like basic incompatibility, considering the commenters suggested that's what her boyfriend was doing so disrespectfully (of course without acknowledging OP's offense). If she's so health conscious to be offended by a birthday treat, she should probably be with someone who feels the same way. Regardless, ghosting him over a cookie bouquet (and those things aren't cheap) was gross.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Even the crunchiest splurge on their birthday and this is the first one he’s known her.

My man is VERY strict on his diet and has cut sugar and most processed foods out of his life, year round. The one exception he makes? The pecan pie I bake every year for his birthday, because I know it’s the one sugary thing he craves and how much he loves it. He still goes gaga every time and appreciates the hell out of me for it, even though he only takes one small slice and shares the rest with his friends and family. Being a health nut doesn’t mean you have to be an ungrateful asshole who throws a fit over a kind gesture!

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I think it's reasonable to assume someone lets go on their birthday, especially if you haven't been together for one of them.

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Message me when I'm not on my phone, and I'll give you my recipe for a pecan pie that doesn't use table sugar.

[–]Advanced_Bar_673 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can I have this recipe too?

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Almost forgot about this... PM me an email address, and I'll send it to you.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Omg that would be a godsend!! Thank you Whisper!

[–]cen-texan 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’d be curious to know how she would have reacted if he had followed her instruction and in fact not gotten her anything?

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What's the required prep for a birthday gift? How early should he buy it? One week? One month? What if he doesn't know her birthday when they've only been together for six months? How soon should he ask? Plenty of people think birthdays are for children or just don't care about them at all.

This seems like such an arbitrary complaint, when he did ask. Why does this even matter? Does it show he cares more based on how early he asks if he can get ahold of something she'd like? Any reasonable request at six months should have been relatively easy for him to acquire. A specific book, some new earrings, some earbuds, a favorite food. None of those are difficult to find and anything bigger is quite the ask at this point in a relationship.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My husband is notorious for waiting until the last minute, but we live in the suburbs, so it's not really an issue. He can get something online in a couple of days or he can just drive to Sam's/Target. It used to bother me more that he didn't do these things sooner, but he's never not been able to get the thing he wanted, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

I agree that how people think of gifts and birthdays, in general, is a factor. Six months really might be too soon to know how the other person feels for some couples. It's definitely too soon to expect something big. I love birthdays and my husband thought they were for children, so he really just humors me, which is sweet in itself.

[–]No-Independence3595 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

..... People actually get mad at recieving cookies as a gift? Those people exist? Wow

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LivelyLychee[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see you are lacking in both reading comprehension and emotional stability. Your contributions are not necessary here. Removed.

[–]TheTwincessMakerEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've clearly said multiple times that my husband buys me gifts. They just aren't surprises.

[–]thebirdlandgirl 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both my husband and myself are horrible at buying and receiving gifts. We are in agreement we don't give any gifts for birthdays or holidays. And i love it. There is no stress and no expectations. It may sound horrible to other people but this is what works for us.

When we started dating we did give gifts and we both ended up buying useless things for eachother, even if they were thoughtfull. So i'm glad we don't waste the money anymore.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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