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Sometimes talking to post wall shrews can be helpful.

vanBeethovenLudwig
October 23, 2017
29 upvotes
/r/RedPillWomen

I usually avoid feminists/shrews but once in a while I find talking to them can be helpful in what NOT to do.

I've got a girlfriend - 34, currently dating someone but not doing so well. Had dinner with her last weekend and I could point out every mistake she is doing in her relationship (her boyfriend told her he thinks they might not be compatible).

So my girlfriend was telling me how she starts to nag at her boyfriend (he spoke about marriage with her but now everything is snowballing into a mess) because he's pulled back aLOT and instead of giving him space, she makes these snarky comments. One example is their friend offered to get complimentary tickets to a concert in January for them but he hesitated - and she made a snide comment saying "it's because we might not be together anymore in January, right?"

She also showed me their "text fights" where there are just walls of angry texts coming from her and he's clearly taken aback.

Then when I told her I had a small conflict with my relationship, she wanted to analyze it with me (which I didn't want to do, because I already knew what I should do - be less sensitive, control my emotions, be more forgiving and realize that I was being aggressive). But it just made me realize the true amount of hamstering and self-absorption in women in general - the inability to get outside of your head, let things go, stop analyzing everything.

In conclusion, sometimes it's good to hear other women complain because you realize how awful it would be to be a shrew!

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Post Information
Title Sometimes talking to post wall shrews can be helpful.
Author vanBeethovenLudwig
Upvotes 29
Comments 78
Date October 23, 2017 6:55 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/sometimes-talking-to-post-wall-shrews-can-be.2703
https://theredarchive.com/post/2703
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/789y2r/sometimes_talking_to_post_wall_shrews_can_be/
Red Pill terms in post
hamsterfeminist
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Comments

[–]Kate_A_D42 points43 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

''Nagging'' and being mean has nothing to do with feminism though. She clearly is having issues with having a healthy form of communication with her partner.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nagging does in my opinion because feminism encourages women to challenge men instead of work with men. It’s an attempt to control men by sheer annoyance.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree it's because feminism has become all girl power and girls can literally do no wrong when it comes to how they treat men. It's taboo to ask "will this hurt my man to say it, and if I must say it will it hurt him to say it in a mean tone and make him the enemy?" When we should all be asking that in how we treat everyone, men aren't the exception.

[–]Kate_A_D8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nagging has existed long before feminism was made into a large scale movement. Traditionally male dominated societies have always had nagging wives. Nagging is not challenging, its pressuring a lesson repetitively in a manner that is not sympathetic. Nothing wrong with a woman challenging a man either if its done respectfully, the same way that men can challenge each other's views without creating harmful and toxic environments. Feminism is about women having equal rights, as in you are not to be seen as a piece of property with no human rights just because you are a woman. Its not ''telling women to nag their husbands'', and its certainly not about controlling men. Your husband is not legally allowed to murder you or your children, because you are no longer considered his property like it was in ancient Greece. You are allowed to vote because you are considered a full human being with equal rights.

The only people who benefit from anyone going against feminism, are those who would want to take your rights away for their personal gain.

[–]Willow-girl9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One example is their friend offered to get complimentary tickets to a concert in January for them but he hesitated - and she made a snide comment saying "it's b

Why are they even still together?! I mean, I've been divorced four times, but none of my marriages ever got that cringe-worthy, I don't think. Yikes!

Just pull the trigger already ...

[–]Cardiscappa26 points27 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

she made a snide comment about "it's because we might not be together anymore in January, right?"

That poor man!! Oh boy, that's so cringey.

In conclusion, sometimes it's good to hear other women complain because you realize how awful it would be to be a shrew!

Quitting feminism was the best thing I did for my happiness. It's actually really hard and emotionally draining being a nagging shrew feminist. The constant oppression of The Patriarchy really stifles any happiness and enjoyment from your life.

This is also why I love reading men's blogs and websites. I lurk in a lot of niche male spaces and get the inside scoop on how they're feeling towards women and I can adjust my behaviour as I see fit.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I lurk in a lot of niche male spaces and get the inside scoop on how they're feeling towards women and I can adjust my behaviour as I see fit.

This is female chameleon behavior being used for the good.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. Freakin' weird, IMO.

[–]Lucretia997 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This makes me think of one of the biggest struggles of being “red pilled.” Is that once you see it.... you really can’t unsee it.

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And the worst part is seeing friends fall into old traps. I'm sitting over here like "there's a better way!" but it really requires a whole paradigm shift and letting go before what I say won't be met with hostility.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (37 children) | Copy Link

But it just made me realize the true amount of hamstering and self-absorption in women in general - the inability to get outside of your head, let things go, stop analyzing everything.

This is really ironic considering that you are guilty of the exact same thing by even posting this. Can't you see that 'hamstering' is a quality of being human? That we all have an Ego to maintain and we justify ourselves accordingly?

sometimes it's good to hear other women complain because you realize how awful it would be to be a shrew!

You've never been shrew-like before? Bad-tempered? Angry instead of assertive?

Awful would be blatant ignorance that we haven't, at some point, been exactly where someone else is.

[–]BewareTheOldMan7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

... [OP] guilty of the exact same thing by even posting this.

The takeaway is that the "subject/the girlfriend" is probably ruining what may be a wonderful and productive relationship. The male is responding appropriately based on the other person’s behavior.

If anything, OP may have missed a "teachable moment." Did OP ask leading questions (without directly forcing RPW concepts) possibly allowing the girlfriend to arrive to a deductive conclusion that behavior modification may be in order? There’s still time to "right the ship" as they may not have yet terminated the relationship. OP could reach out to her friend, and reference the conversation to offer friendly and practical RPW advice.

Basically…there’s still a chance.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I tried to counsel her but she refused to admit she might be doing something wrong that's pushing him away. I feel like I can't help her if she doesn't want to be helped.

[–]BewareTheOldMan5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I tried...I can't help her if she doesn't want to be helped.

...and there it is.

If the "subject" refuses help, then the relationship will follow its natural conclusion to eventual termination.

It's OK, I talk to men who do the exact same thing. It's only AFTER, when we conduct a post-relationship analysis when their mistakes become apparent. That's when they learn the lesson, albeit late. At that point they now have information to be better in their next effort.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here's the other thing - many women simply like to rant and bitch about the problem instead of solving it. She clearly just wanted me to listen and didn't want to try to solve it. She ended the night saying "thanks for letting me bitch about stupid men." That comment in itself turned me off - I try very hard not to call my boyfriend "stupid" because relationships are difficult and we have to put effort on both sides. Do I get exasperated with my own relationship? Of course. But I try to respect him and his feelings when I find myself feeling hurt in a situation instead of insulting him. I'm certainly not perfect but maybe I try too hard to keep things peaceful and enjoyable in my own relationship.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She ended the night saying "thanks for letting me bitch about stupid men."

I wouldn't have let this go, myself. This is where you confront a friend about self-destructive behavior. But if she's not a friend, or you're pulling away... shrug.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

I definitely have been at fault before, but it's always good to have external reminders to keep improving.

[–]Boobear36 points7 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

It also begs the question of why you are friends with a woman who you clearly cannot stand. Why are you friends with this woman if you clearly hate her? Keeping around a friend you hate is not exactly mature and doesn't promote happiness or growth. You are "hamstering" into thinking that keeping her as a friend is somehow a good thing.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Do you know how hard it is to find RPW friends IRL? I consider myself blessed if they don't openly preach feminism. It's everywhere.

[–]Boobear3 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Uh. Is it really that hard to find women who aren't in a toxic relationship? Because that's what op's friend's issue is.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Do you have no experience with people like OPs friend? Do you actually think she would listen to a word of criticism about her boyfriend? All you can do with people like that is to plant seeds and hope one day they see they are in a bad relationship.

OP doesn't "hate" her friend, she is probably just fed up with her friend repeatedly acting this way. It's also odd that you assumed OP has never tried to help the friend. This post was obviously venting and didn't address every detail of their friendship.

A majority of people I know wouldn't dream of being RPW and might be shocked if they knew I was. I won't stop being their friend, but just because they don't listen to my love advice doesn't mean I keep them around as entertainment. I actually like them, although it's hard to watch their dating...and I've even planted seeds to help people get out of bad things.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Please ignore the other user. They were warned to desist, and they don't seem to understand human nature. Their comments have been removed and they won't be creating additional issues on this thread.

Please keep in mind that you can always report comments that break the rules of the community. :)

[–]Rivkariver2 Star2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you

[–]Boobear3 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Or she could just try harder to find friends that don't act like this woman.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

The fact that she nags at her boyfriend has nothing to do with her being a terrible person. I've said this many times she's a lovely person but she's making a mistake of nagging at him. At RPW we all try to be aware of this in ourselves. I'm just simply pointing it out as a reminder.

[–]Boobear3 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

She's not a terrible person, but you've called her a shrew and a nag? Doesn't compute. Sorry.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm actually still in my 20's and most of my friends are married. I spend most of my time with married people and some have children. But we all have a few still single friends. Again not sure why you're being so hateful. I don't need to explain myself.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP doesn't "hate" her friend, she is probably just fed up with her friend repeatedly acting this way. It's also odd that you assumed OP has never tried to help the friend. This post was obviously venting and didn't address every detail of their friendship.

Yeah I'm a bit shocked at some of the responses and assumptions about my friendship with her. I didn't mean for the post to come off that way. She's a lovely person but I simply wanted to make a point of how women generally ruin relationships (because we've probably all been guilty of nagging, scheming, etc).

[–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star[M] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No tone policing/ concern trolling

[–]Boobear3 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

In other posts, people comment pointing out of the op is being mean or negative. That's all I'm doing.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is not the issue. The point is that you are directly complaining about the OP and labeling the friendship. Essentially you are policing in the sense that you don't think this thread should be up, that OP is wrong or bad, and that you are an authority figure on what should and should not be posted here.

When a moderator corrects you, it is generally counterproductive to simply argue. You need to absorb what has now been said by two different mods and alter your behavior moving forward.

Thank you.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm really sorry if it came off as me taking glory in her misery because that's not what it is. I did try to counsel her but she refused to own up to the fact that she might be doing something wrong and putting the blame on him only. I really couldn't help her in this case.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your friends don't have to have the same ideology or beliefs as you for you to respect them and be kind to them.

How would you ever grow as a person if everyone around you was a clone of yourself?

[–]Rivkariver2 Star1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I literally just answered the question of why they are friends despite being so different. There's nothing wrong with it. I was pointing out OP is probably just venting here because it's hard to watch her friend be miserable in love...and friend likely hasn't listened to any advice. I would be sick of it too even if I liked my friend. Maybe they go way back.

Learning how you don't want to be is important. If a loved one has a drug addiction I still love them, but I hate their addiction, and thinking "I can never end up that way" isn't mean.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have also personally experienced other problems with myself and I've had friends who have tried to helped me but I wouldn't accept or I wasn't willing to admit I had a problem. That's how I know I can always advise someone but she has to make the changes herself. If she's 34 and still wants to nag and rant and be pushy then I can't help her. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves and that's the hard truth. It's easy to be validated but it's difficult to improve.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

There is that. Personally, I'd rather 3 sane friends than 30 friends who are problematic drama llamas. My wife is the same way. That's just one reason why we married.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wish I could find 1 RPW friend.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't hate her, she's not a terrible person. She's a fine person to spend time with but when it comes to relationships she's not super great at them.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You obviously don't hate her. I know how exhausting it is with a friend that you care for but who constantly shoot themselves in the foot, particularly women who are trapped in the cultural messages about how to treat men. It's hard to watch.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've been guilty of a lot of things she does too. But it's difficult to watch a friend dig herself deeper into a hole, because I know she wants me to just agree with her and validate her, and help her craft long and angry text messages to him. But I won't. I know it doesn't help the situation. But that's what she wants me to do.

Again she's a fine person to spend time with because she's interesting to talk to but when it comes to relationships I'm not going to help her scheme especially when I feel like it's not going to help her.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've known many women who just want to vent, not to get advice. And at some point, I've had to tell each one, "Look, I get that you want to vent, but you're making the same mistakes over and over. You're my friend; I don't want to watch you keep making the same mistakes and failing. Do you want my honest advice on how to make it better? Because the only thing you can change is YOU, not them, and I can see where you're going wrong. But if you just want to gripe, and not have my input... that's not fair to ME. You might as well talk to a wall."

And then step aside and gesture to an actual wall.

[–]Boobear3 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

If my friend wrote a post like this about me, I would certainly think she hates me. You come off very hateful and negative here.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not sure why or where your antagonism is coming from. I'm learning from other people's mistakes and wanted to share it with a community that is centered around self-improvement in our relationships. I mainly wrote this because I'm guilty of being a shrew too but sometimes I can't see my mistakes, so it's helpful when you see your own mistake in someone else. I tried to counsel her about her problems but she just wanted to complain so I can't help her there.

I feel bad for her for sure because I've been where she's been before, but I realize it doesn't help either party in the relationship (her nagging her boyfriend, her boyfriend is unhappy and pushing back). It was mainly stepping back and seeing a problem I've had in someone else. Sorry if I came off as condescending but I simply wanted to learn from other people.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

that is centered around self-improvement in our relationships

Your relationship with a friend is also a relationship.

[–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No tone policing/ comcern trolling.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yikes, dating her sounds unpleasant.

It makes me sad, but I feel the same at some of the posts on /r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen

I pity these women and I don't know why I have been given the gift of stuff like RPW and others haven't been so lucky, and I feel bad about thinking "note to self, do the opposite of her" but there it is. Some other woman messing up doesn't mean I shouldn't learn from their mistakes.

[–]lilaclemons11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Talking to my shrew-feminist friends is my favourite thing. It's like watching TV, because I'm so distanced from the hamstering and whatnot now. It's like a zoo exhibit but it definitely teaches me what not to do. And even if I don't learn anything, it makes me feel SO GOOD about my relationship and how I deal with it.

[–]zimtkuss3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’m not sure being a sarcastic passive aggressive nag is very feminist. It plays into all the negative female stereotypes I ever heard growing up: emotional, illogical, nagging, insecure and unable to address anything directly or maturely. But I accept that I have a different view of feminism than most women on this board or women who subscribe to RPW ideology.

I do agree it is helpful to see bad behavior though, because from the outside you can really see how destructive and stupid it really is.

I always think the most important thing in a relationship— even a platonic one—is to first understand I cannot bully someone into being who I want them to be. I can either accept them as they are or go. Additionally I have rarely seen any human be motivated by being brow beaten and bullied and treated like a monster— I fail to see how emasculating your man would encourage him to be a better version of himself. Most men and most people respond better to positive reinforcement.

Being pleasant is not that hard lol

[–]gELSK0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

// , Before you dismiss anything as a stereotype, consider why stereotypes exist.

They're not all social constructs. Would you call "women are usually shorter than men" a stereotype? No. Because it's ego syntonic. It's only when something does not serve your interests or ego that you call it a stereotype.

For anyone interested in the origins of stereotypes, I recommend reading Satoshi Kanazawa's book, "Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters".

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200903/beautiful-people-are-more-intelligent-i

[–]zimtkuss0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well that’s exactly my point: If these are negative characteristics of women at large, I think it undermines the argument that these are characteristics of “feminist women”

Perhaps these women have these characteristics because they are typical women, rather than being feminists.

That said, I’ll reiterate that I don’t think I have the same definition of feminism as many women who use this board or people who subscribe to TRP philosophy generally.

I will check out that book.

[–]gELSK0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

// , Upvote for willingness to visit the library!

I did not disagree with your main point.

These are, as you say, female stereotypes. Consider, however, that stereotypes of feminists are generally a superset of stereotypes about females, just with more jowls and half-assed hair.

"Nags like a feminist" is a perfectly reasonable phrase to write, just as "nags like a woman" is. The former case just may have more chance of jowls.

[–]zimtkuss3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, and everyone who does not consider themselves a classical feminist should reflect on whether or not they are a sour nag. There’s a line of thought in this forum where women think disavowing feminism will protect them from their bad behavior which is inherently female

It’s like complaining about the right angles in squares and then reaching for a rectangle to solve the problem. My initial post was not to challenge whether or not these stereotypes also apply to feminists— of course they do, that’s logic 101– it was to point out the trap in one thinking she is exempt from all bad traits by disavowing feminism. Many women on this board fall into this trap.

[–]Forgot_Pword 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

It gives me hope that self-aware women like you exist.

[–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star[M] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Do not pet the unicorns.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

😂

[–]MGTOWManofMystery1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All I can think about is her boyfriend obtaining some slight peace listening to Paul Simon's 50 Ways and contemplating his exit strategy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABXtWqmArUU

NaggingKillsRelationships

[–]not_a_foot2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely! It helps validate me and gives me motivation

[–]gELSK0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

// , This woman's behavior reminds me of the married, pitiable man's song:

https://youtu.be/x-5OX7CO26c?t=1m30s

Ugh.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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