The Talk is Socially Retarded, Don't Do It.

Ariel125 · 2018-02-22T01:06:22+00:00

this is an excellent post. My husband was always 'not the marrying type' (so he thought) and I was a girl who did not move quickly physically... ever. With anyone. No matter how much the guy wanted it.

I wound up being 'the only woman he could ever marry' and he wound up being 'the only man I couldn't control myself around'.

If you're a match and it's meant to be, it's unspoken. It just happens. There's no need for any 'talk'.

fastforwars · 2018-02-22T16:57:31+00:00

Everything in this post is logical. But sex "happens" whereas commitment needs to be explicit.

I used to be 100% of the mindset of this post.

Then I met a guy. He was perfect for me - strong-willed, intelligent, good looking. A Don Draper type, but funnier.

We dated for a while and I was pretty firm about where the boundaries were at each stage. Then we hooked up and soon after he was spending 3 nights a week at my place and I was spending every weekend at his.

You'd think between a demanding job and the time he was investing in me, female intuition or even just logical deduction would suggest that commitment was there.

I found out 6 months later that in that early time period, for really convoluted reasons, he'd hooked up with the girl that pre-dated me twice.

I ended up in a situation where I had to choose between walking away from the closest thing I'd ever found to "perfect for me", or staying in essentially muddied waters.

Don't be me. Have the conversation. If for no other reason than because it draws a clear line for both of you as to when the commitment begins.

WonderfulandValuable · 2018-02-23T13:20:57+00:00

I made it clear from the beginning that I expect commitment and exclusivity before engaging in sexual activities.

carefreevermillion · 2018-02-22T00:10:00+00:00

For the sake of discussion, you argue that the man bringing up that his sexual needs need to be met in a mechanical way is inappropriate and socially weak. You then compare this to a woman asking for commitment.

Do you find the reverse discussions to be as socially unacceptable? To clarify, the woman would be essentially saying "I'm offering sex if you want it" and then the man saying "I'm offering commitment if you want it". How covert should those agreements be? Obviously the eventual results of commitment and sex (marriage and children) need overt discussion, but if you think it's appropriate to have those overt discussions when the gatekeeper of the respective desire is ready, at what point (or range) would you say that's appropriate? Or would you leave it up to the individual couples to draw those lines?

NubianIbex · 2018-02-22T07:43:27+00:00

Sounds nice in theory but the difference between theory and practice is much greater in practice than in theory (Richard Feynman).

What you say may be true up until LTR level. In a liberal bluepill society, however inspiring a woman might be, nowadays there's absolutely no need for a man to think about his desire to marry her until push comes to shove. This is what feminists fought for and this is the loophole RP male strategy exploits to achieve optimal outcome of plate-spinning or at best carefree LTRing.

So a better analogy for your example is a man trying to get laid or assess his odds at getting laid while dating in a religious society where sex without marriage/commitment is not expected of anyone or even frowned upon. Here women may be the gatekeepers of sex, but there's a strip of land surrounding the gates, guarded by the principles of society. In this analogy, men only want to date women who will be sexually attracted to them someday in the future when time comes to approach the gates. While for women it's a matter which they vet in a mostly theoretical manner, or maybe not at all.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that in theory commitment shouldn't be negotiated. However unlike inspiring desire in a woman to have sex with you, it's naive to think that anything will inspire a man to effortlessly commit. Sex is something both men and women want and need, and I've lurked on RP enough to know that commitment isn't.

It's sad sometimes, really. To feel that your heart's desire is to be a wife to this man that you're in a relationship with, yet you can't do anything about it but trust him and wait as long as it takes. Sometimes the hamster just can't take it anymore, you're overwhelmed with fear and sadness and you brainfart the talk out of your mouth and regret it afterwards.

SouthernAthena · 2018-02-22T18:06:23+00:00

This is a great post. I would caution ladies to be at least somewhat explicit about committent though, not demanding but simply asking. In this day and age, things may seem really serious, but sometimes each partner is on a different page. One will think they are exclusive while the other assumes that, if it's not stated, there's still room for dating. The signs of commitment may all be there, but they may not be the whole picture.

So when things are feeling serious, just a simple, calm, non-accusatory question of "are we exclusive?" or "are we bf & gf?" can go a long way to saving heartache. You don't want to be 6 months in love and find out he was dating other people the whole time.

But it must be understood that this can't be a demand. It is a simple question.

All this is simply to avoid what happens when you assume...making an a** out of u and me.

g_e_m_anscombe · 2018-02-22T04:30:13+00:00

I totally disagree with this. There can be reasons unrelated to a woman that explain a man not wanting to get married. In a world where 3 and 5 year LTRs are common, if you want commitment sooner, it can be good to have the talk.

Within a month of dating, I asked my now husband how long he would want to date before asking someone to marry him. He said about a year. I told him that I wouldn’t want to waste more than a year with a man who wasn’t interested in marrying me. A little over a year in, I checked in with him. “So, you said it would take about a year of being with someone before you felt ready to marry her. Where are things at?” As we talked, it became clear that he felt confident about me but was worried he wasn’t adult enough to be married. I told him that getting married would help him to feel like an adult, but he sort of needed to figure that out on his own a bit. Within a few months, I made it clear that I wanted to marry him but that I wasn’t going to waste another year on him if he didn’t put a ring on it. Giving him a bit of a nudge was helpful and he still took all the initiative in planning the proposal.

We’re Christians so we were waiting for sex until marriage. If you’re in a different situation, maybe there would be less desire to get married in a shorter time frame. But I think it’s very reasonable for women in their mid-20s to tell men that they aren’t willing to waste 1-2 years on someone who knows he won’t get married “until 35” or “until he feels like an adult” or whatever excuse he may give. It’s better to have a talk like this in the earlier stages of dating rather than the end. But a follow up is fine as well.

lespetiteschoses · 2018-02-22T05:39:05+00:00

I think this is a poor analogy.

A woman will show her attraction to you by having sex. There's no ambiguity there.

A man may act like he's committed to you, but unless you have the conversation and make exclusivity clear, you have no idea if he's seeing other women on the side. You also have no idea what 'commitment' means to him. If you're a woman aiming to marry, you need to find out his views on this and make sure you're not wasting each other's time.

batting4fireflies · 2018-02-22T00:59:41+00:00

This is a really important topic. One of the most common questions women ask here is how to know if a guy they’re seeing will commit to them.

The problem, of course, is there is no way to know for sure whether a man is willing to commit to you, because like sexual desire, the desire to commit can change. This is why RP emphasizes self improvement, for both men and women.

One thing I would add is the role good intuition plays in girl game. The ability to read a man and his actions, and respond appropriately without having “a talk.”

When I first met my SO, I had no idea if he would desire any type of commitment with me. However, I knew we desired each other sexually right off the bat, and after a couple dates, I knew I also desired commitment from him. At that point, I relied on a combination of common sense and intuition to decide if it was worth taking the risk of being sexual with him. I decided it was. He told me he wanted to be monogamous with me and asked me to be his girlfriend the day after. In the two and a half years since then, he has demonstrated his commitment in increasingly more serious ways, I’ve demonstrated my sexual desire for him constantly, and I work everyday to be the woman he will continue to want to be committed to. Because I know that if I “slack off”, his desire to commit could change, just like if he were “slack off” my sexual desire for him could change.

I would say that The Talk is unnecessary if you’re a high quality woman with good intuition and ability to assess risk.

connaught45 · 2018-03-17T23:58:43+00:00

There is a much better solution to this. You don't sleep with them. You show desire, you compliment their appearance, you make it known how much you enjoy kissing them. When they try to progress to sex and you say I'm not ready, de-escalate, etc.. They will ask why you don't want to. You smile and say you are not the type of woman who has sex outside of a committed relationship. Then they will either commit or not, without you ever having to aksk. This is very easy to do.

throwawayindisbelief · 2018-02-22T18:03:21+00:00

Rape_And_Honey · 2018-02-22T12:53:43+00:00

This could be an ok analogy for the "are we dating" talk, but not for marriage if that was your intention.

aussiedollface · 2018-02-24T21:02:34+00:00

This is such an interesting post! I’m so glad I found this board. I’ve only had a couple of boyfriends, but they have always brought up commitment, not me. In the dating phase I have always focused on connecting emotionally and mentally, and really listening to him and getting to know the man. I wouldn’t sleep with a guy before we were exclusive, but I do also accept that in those early stages of dating they are likely sleeping with other women. Some of my friends freak out by this and I think that makes them prematurely try to “lock down” a man, and the guy freezes up. I’m getting married in two months and my fiancé has been the leader in all the commitment stages, and I like it that way as it gives me security that he has come to it on his own. I do realise there are some men who need a little push or nudge, but I believe it can be done subtley and without losing your feminine charm.
xo

[deleted] · 2018-02-22T00:01:16+00:00

[permanently deleted]

opiatesaretheworst · 2018-03-16T23:24:08+00:00

So women never seek just sex without interest in a relationship?

Guywithgirlwithabike · 2018-02-22T03:22:08+00:00

This is a good post, and an apt analogy.

I don't really have anything else to add.

unicorn__juice · 2018-02-22T10:27:49+00:00

I am learning so much from this subreddit. So so so valuable! Thank you!

stubborndaffodil · 2018-02-22T17:45:12+00:00

This is genius. Deep down I know this but I couldn't put it into words why. I have mentioned wanting marriage to my man, but I have never and will never give him an ultimatum to marry me. Even though it is one of my deepest desires (that and having kids with him), I really focus on not putting pressure on him, especially when I know our situation is not ready for those things.

Who wants to nag someone into marrying them?

[deleted] · 2018-02-23T05:18:47+00:00

Yeah I've never understood the concept of sitting down and having a big chat about things that should be apparent. If you have to have the talk to see if he wants commitment, he probably doesn't. Men are fairly territorial in my experience, unless they're just playing around.

redmanticore2 · 2018-02-24T13:14:47+00:00

Then marriage itself is socially retarded.

The marriage is legally bound The Talk.

Title	The Talk is Socially Retarded, Don't Do It.
Author	Whisper
Upvotes	157
Comments	67
Date	February 21, 2018 11:09 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	/r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/the-talk-is-socially-retarded-dont-do-it.2770 https://theredarchive.com/post/2770
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/7za0r6/the_talk_is_socially_retarded_dont_do_it/