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Tools for women to communicate with men

July 23, 2020
134 upvotes

I was browsing some of my old archives and I found a few items I thought would be helpful. RPW is all about providing you with RP relationship tools to understand how men actually work (rather than how BP society wishes they worked); if you don't understand how men actually work, you aren't going to date one successfully. So I'm providing some snippets on the topics of Shopping, Problems, and How to Listen to Men.

Shopping

“Shopping” is a fundamentally different process for men and for women.

For men, “shopping” is akin to hunting–you plan for the prey you wish to kill, decide where you can best locate it, go there, kill it, and return triumphant.

For women, “shopping” is akin to foraging–you go into the woods looking for items that are in season, ripe, and desirable, not knowing exactly what you’ll find but putting in the effort to search for what’s good.

The problem is, we call these two fundamentally different activities the same thing, which confuses people enormously. If a man is reluctant to go shopping with you, understand that how he sees it - and how you present it - matters, and are likely different.

Problems

When men talk about a problem, we’re looking for solutions. ADMITTING we have a issue that we can’t resolve is actually loss of face or status (hence the famous stereotype of not stopping and asking for directions). We’re giving up status to find a fix. (Of course we gain status by providing a fix when is why men are frequently eager to help…)

When women talk about a problem, they’re usually looking for comfort. Attempting to provide a fix just gets men in trouble. Problem is, most men have to consciously change mental gears to “Poor Baby” mode; it is not very easy to do. Men are usually insulted by “comforting” and, naturally, we don’t want to insult a woman. We have to work pretty hard to understand that this is not the case with women.

How to Listen to Men (from Alison Armstrong)

To create the kind of situation that enables men to communicate fully, remember this:

Make sure it is a good time to ask a question. This means when he is not doing anything else (including things you don’t think are important). To check, you can ask, “Is this a good time to ask a question?” Don’t take it personally if he says no and try again at a later time.

After you ask the question, give him time to think before he responds. He is not taking the answer off the top of his head, he is really thinking about it. That is the respect he is paying to your question. Just wait patiently while he thinks. If you prompt him, or rephrase your question, that will interrupt his thought processes.

Once he starts talking, don’t interrupt him. This includes a comment, objection or another question.

Watch nodding your head excessively, or agreeing verbally. This can also be an interruption.

When it seems like he is finished, listen “one minute longer.” Do this until he says he is done. When he takes a breath, don’t jump in. While men are accused of being “shallow,” they are actually the opposite. They are like deep, deep wells. If you don’t give him a chance to draw up another bucket, you will only get what was on the surface.

Make sure you are safe to talk to — this means that you can’t have a “right answer” in mind. If his answer will get him in trouble with you, he can tell this and is likely to not answer at all. The odds of him answering the question the way you would are slim, be willing to be surprised and learn something from him.

Appreciate him for answering your question. Even if you didn’t like the answer, he honored your question with a response.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill content, including various subreddits and blogs. This post has been archived from the subreddit /r/RedPillWomen.

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[–]HappilyMrs39 points40 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That shopping analogy is so accurate in my house, as is the purpose of problem-bringing. Thanks.

[–]therealMericGetler31 points32 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Have you ever seen a man buying fishing tackle.... puts female dithering to shame.

[–]mannfan92928 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s cuz he’s fishing instead of hunting.

[–]stevierose78923 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

While men are accused of being “shallow,” they are actually the opposite. They are like deep, deep wells. If you don’t give him a chance to draw up another bucket, you will only get what was on the surface.

A great analogy and one that I have finally learned. If I am patient I will get an honest thought out answer.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

This one is so true:

"After you ask the question, give him time to think before he responds. He is not taking the answer off the top of his head, he is really thinking about it. That is the respect he is paying to your question. Just wait patiently while he thinks. If you prompt him, or rephrase your question, that will interrupt his thought processes."

However -- I don't really agree with the "problem" one. I've often see this idea put forward that, supposedly, we women don't want men try to solve our problems; we just want them to listen and empathize. Frankly that's not my experience at all!

If my husband wants to actually solve my problems, I am thrilled! For example, if my problem is that the house is messy and my computer is acting up, I am delighted if he quietly fixes the computer and orders the kids to clean up. That makes me feel like the luckiest person alive -- he truly fixed my problem.

What annoys me, though, is when I talk about a problem and he tells me what he thinks I should do to fix it. On my own, without help. That, I find a little irritating. And it is extra irritating when he presents advice as if he's fixing my problem for me. I don't mean that he has to fix all of my problems, of course. But he has a certain way sometimes not listening to the details of my issue and then throwing out solutions that don't really fit the situation. Maybe a lot of men do that. It's not fixing the problem!

[–]ishwedointheshadows7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Last paragraph=wtf

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Telling me what he thinks I should do is not the same as "fixing" a problem! Giving advice is not fixing a problem. It annoys me that men write about it as if it is :) pet peeve I guess.

[–]buttgoogler3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you mean that he has to fix all of your problems?

[–]ishwedointheshadows4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes she did 0_o

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, of course not! But it irritates me when I read all these articles about how men are "fixers" and women don't want to have their problems fixed.

That's just silly. Everyone wants to have their problems fixed :)

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's just silly. Everyone wants to have their problems fixed

Demonstrably not true. I won't even bring up high-conflict women, who actively engender chaos/strife because they thrive on it.

Want a great, hilarious illustration of "women not wanting it fixed"? Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean, that video is really funny, but I wouldn't really take is as gospel:)

Everyone wants their problems fixed. Sometimes, people become hopeless...problems seem huge and overwhelming...so they prefer to complain or over-analyze rather than address the problem.

But I promise you, if the guy in the video could safely, effectively pull the nail out of the lady's head, she would not complain :)

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. Legit there is a sizeable minority that does NOT want their problems solved. Or they Think the price is too high. Don’t 5hink that everyone is as rational as you are.

[–]PR0N0IA3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are 3 reasons I talk to my husband about my problems:

1) I need to vent. I don’t need actual practical advice or help solving the problem.

2) I need advice

3) I need his help

He’s pretty good at picking up on which reason, but if he can’t tell he often asks me if I just need to vent, want advice or if he can help somehow.

[–]ishwedointheshadows2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, fix the problem on your own with no help. You will be better for it as person. Or. Just listen to someone validate you for hours. Get to work lady!!! I am sure he would appreciate it too!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

?? Who said anything about validation?

I'm not saying men have to fix my problems. I'm saying that sometimes men WANT to feel like they're solving problems, but they don't take the time to totally understand the issue. They just kind of throw out generic advice. And that's not fixing the problem.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]LouiseConnor2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can’t even count how many RP-like books for women have said “buy his clothes and anything with clothing if you job” or “don’t micromanage him, let him buy his clothes and dress himself”. Such a mixed bag. I guess, whatever he wants, do that.

[–]CuppyBees4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I really like this post! But I feel like the How to Listen to Men part works for both genders? Or is there a specific way that we respond better to questions that isn't the same as the advice given in that part? I totally get what the rest of it is saying but I feel like that part of it is just talking about how to respectfully listen to anyone.

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars[S] 16 points17 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Men and women tend to relate differently, and for different reasons. Here's an easy mental exercise to demonstrate it: When is the last time you saw two straight men chatting over tea for hours? When is the last time you said your car/device had an issue, and had a woman pop up and just try to start fixing it?

Both usually don't happen. Because men tend to communicate data/fix issues, and women tend to relate emotionally/verbally. Talking to a man like you do your girlfriends is usually an exercise in suffering because men and women are very different mentally.

Exceptions exist, but... we are biologically different, and ignoring it causes misery to both parties.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is over-simplified. My husband has long talks with his friends -- more over beer than tea, and often while doing some activity at the same time, but they're still talking.

And, if I tell a female friend that I'm thinking of cooking x y or z for dinner, she will help me. She'll also help me redecorate, or declutter, or whatever else. I don't see how that's any different from men helping each other fix their cars.

[–]lady_baphomet2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As for conversations with men and women, you are partly right biology does play a part in communication between the sexes, because women do process about 100 extra wpm than men can. However, it's often not the biological diffrences that make communication painful, the anwser is far more simple. We are only engaged in topics that intrest us no mather what sex you are this is universal.

So of course you are going to find a 1h+ conversation of why Karen at work is such a B is going to be painful, because it's boring small talk, something you have no intrest in like a lot of people do. On the flipside, It's just as likely that Becky is also dying inside while you talk in depth about the GDP or computer science when that's a subject she's not intrested or invested in.

> When is the last time you saw two straight men chatting over tea for hours? When is the last time you said your car/device had an issue, and had a woman pop up and just try to start fixing it? <

I've had a lot of male roommates in my life, and many of my friends are hetro men, I have to say this is fairly untrue based on what I see and experience in real life. Lot's of men get together to chat, often they talk about work, dating, gossip/talk shit, and so on - and sometimes tea is invloved.

I've also seen women pop up to fix things, mainly myself, as I used to be a custodian at an all female rehab. So part of that means having to troubleshoot AC units, tv's, chemical pumps, and other minor repairs. Many of the clients that were in the rehab were of a blue collar or white collar work background and were always wanting to help me fix stuff since that's where they saw their own value through fixing things. It's more common than just a few exceptions.

[–]therealMericGetler2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, I'll (M) do beers/ale not tea, but same difference.

[–]CuppyBees3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Oh I get what you're saying about all of that, I just mean the parts about not interrupting, giving them time to respond, and not having a right answer are effective ways to communicate with everyone, not just men, right? I might just be thinking too much about it haha, but it seems like those specific things would make anyone you're speaking to feel heard.

[–]childish-penguino4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Idk I think the nodding and verbal agreement still stands with women. It helps make us feel heard. But it’s interesting that it would be considered an interruption to a man and I think it makes some of my conversations with my bf make sense.

[–]therealMericGetler7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, this is less a M/F distinction, and more personal preference. A lot of men, in particular ones with EQ>0 do in fact want validation. If you aren't agreeing/actively listening, it suggests you're bored, and they'll wrap.

[–]ban1chka4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This. It honestly irritated me a little when I read that. I would say communication varies way more person to person than between genders. When I (female) talk, sometimes I want to make a more long and complex point. If you start asking me questions or make comments, I'll get distracted and annoyed. I know other people who would have no trouble continuing after getting interrupted by a short comment, but it throws me off completely. It also depends if I'm telling a story or making a more, ah, philosophical argument. If it's a story, I wouldn't mind questions that improve understanding or are asking for more context.

For listening, if you just sit there and do nothing, I'll think you're not listening to me at all. I see nothing wrong with nodding and saying things like "Oh I see.", "Wow, that's interesting/cool/awesome/annoying!", "Mhm" or things like that. It's called active listening and it's actually proven to improve understanding in the person who does the listening. If you're just sitting there doing nothing, it's like talking a wall... Of course people will assume you're not paying attention.

[–]childish-penguino0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok see and that’s why I’ve always nodded and agreed and done all of the “active listening” stuff. My bf has made comments that I interrupt him a lot and I didn’t ever think so or understand where he was coming from until I read this post.

But I may have been to quick to jump the gun saying it’s a gender thing and it could just be a personal preference. But I truly never considered nodding and agreement noises for be interruption

[–]CuppyBees0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes this is what I was trying to say haha.

[–]jakethegreatwhite1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is pretty damn spot on, now we should make one for women that is this spot on with no bias or bull

[–]Schnabellex0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I really saw alot of my husband in that post, thanks for the insight, very interesting!

[–]lady_baphomet0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Tried doing the no nodding and waiting an extra moment before replying, but that just sets off my partner more as he thinks I'm ignoring him/stonewalling.

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Obviously nothing here is universal. Do what works for you.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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