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Understanding RP: What I've Learned and Will Teach My Kids

September 19, 2017

Taking the "red pill" means that I see the uncomfortable realities of male vs female sexual strategies and goals and I take them into account in my own relationships. RP does not mean that I necessarily like these realities or think they are super awesome but it doesn't matter if I think 2+2 is unfair or immoral - it is what it is. I have come to really appreciate the interesting and complimentary ways the differing strategies have shaped humanity and the solutions we've come up with to balance the pulls. And with RP I can come to acceptance rather than fighting, blaming, or criticizing men (and women) for doing what they do.

I do not like the manipulation of RP - even if men and women are different I think respect and honesty will always result in more goals being met and people being happier than using dread game or women faking or manipulating their appearance or personality to be more "RP". I do believe in being who you are since that's what you'll be best at - even the most powerful women can submit to a powerful man, it doesn't mean she should tamp down her power. She may end up with an ugly powerful man if she isn't gorgeous, but that's RP ruthless truth that most people don't like. Lying about N count, being deceitful by omission, wishing without asking, manipulating with sex, making women afraid you will leave them, supporting pornography (which in my mind is sexual images for men and encouraging women's "100 bullet point" list of Prince Charming/Mr. Darcy must-have's for men), accepting the legal system which is heavily weighed in favor of women who don't live up to the responsibility inherent in marriage and family building, shaming new mothers to lose weight unhealthily, etc....those are NOT RP attitudes or behaviors to me, but that is all my interpretation. I do not agree with a lot in these subs but there's enough truth to find it worthwhile. It certainly won't be in popular culture.

RP can be used differently depending on your goals. Men have an easier time applying RP and a longer timeframe to use it since resources and status and leadership are more complex (but can be learned and add up over time) while the youthful sexual/fertile power women have has a timeline. Women can have children later but why would you do something so important during the decline of health instead of the pinnacle? For a lot of (understandably) angry men, they have decided to give up on having a lifelong partnership with a woman to build a family and raise children. Their goal is to enjoy women but they will age with diminishing meaning to life (my opinion, I totally understand their view but I pity them for it). For a lot of women, they have decided to try to lead instead of being a good dancer in their pair and they will have to put up with lifelong dissatisfaction with men while their female power declines (again, judge/pity). There is a submission/dominance circuit in mammals for sexuality and partnership. It does not mean that a woman is lifeless and spineless but that she puts down the "girl power!" crap that our culture teaches (at the expense of male natural testosterone and aggression and its resulting spectacular risk taking and creative achievements and stability) and submits to the needs of the family and recognizes the great amount of resources that men give to their families and society.

I personally think the long term goal of marriage, family building, and stable communities and societal structures is worthwhile so I pity and judge those who use RP for short term gratification. You will see that in my response overall. But to each their own. For women, RP isn't very useful after The Wall except to be realistic and understanding of what they are up against in the sexual marketplace and their bargaining power. They may still be able to marry a man and both be happy though. There are no guarantees but if I had to risk it, I'm risking young marriage at the shot of a long and happy life together. And there is no time like the present regardless of anyone's age right now.

Women are the gatekeepers of sex. Women create children - as "sexist" as it sounds, that is what women give to a family and what they have to offer. (So if a man doesn't want a family I agree with some angry men - women are useless other than sex toys and you will attract women who will be able to offer nothing more). Pregnancy/childbirth/childrearing is a HUGE and risky psychological and physical responsibility so women are careful about whom they are giving children to - hence they should be very careful about having sex.

Men are the gatekeepers of commitment. Men provide protection and resources to the family unit. Single motherhood is hard now, imagine how hard it would be in harsher times in the past. Women rely heavily on men. (So if a woman doesn't want a family, yes be as Girl Power as you want. But women are finding out that they do want a family, that raising children is often a primal want, and that the costs are heavy and if you thought you were supposed to be "independent" then you don't know how to submit and take the lead with this necessary vulnerability.) Again, pregnancy/childbirth/childrearing is a huge and risky endeavor so men are careful about the women they commit to. It is easy for a man to leave after impregnating a woman and it's not surprising that men leave and selfishly that makes the most sense - it's surprising and beautiful that they stay because they understand the long term game of family building.

The Wall - Appearances give information about health and fertility. RP means that, for women, our first impression appearance is important. We would be silly to demand that men "like me for me!" when our brains are looking for clues about health and fertility. And the bargaining power that women have is stronger the younger we are - it behooves us to find a partner earlier rather than waiting for our 30s. Humans take this to the extreme with body modifications of all sorts because the brain likes easy interpretations. In this sense, looks are not everything and it's silly for older women to try to continue to appear like a fertile teenager, but the importance of looks cannot be denied.

The Wall is where a woman's appearance clues about fertility decline. I've heard the peak is around 24 and The Wall hits hard a few years later.

The Wall is also where the horizons switch. Until the Wall, women have the upper hand in the sexual market. After the Wall, men's resources and status usually increase while women's looks and fertility decrease. A woman gives up her youth and opportunities with potential higher value males in return for long term commitment and resources from her man.

The Wall is extremely hard for women. For most women, we are used to getting attention when we are younger due to nothing but our youthful looks. This drops off as we age. For men, the opposite happens and they are tempted to give up their women and find preWall women. Women have to learn humility with aging acceptance and how to be mothers/coaches/mentors for younger women after the Wall. Women also have to learn to be sexually flirty even when they don't have the youthful power and appearance they once did. The Wall marks the pinnacle of female individual power and starts the transition to mother/family/wife power as the man's power increases and the children need support from their mother.

Modern/immature men do not entirely understand and accept the Wall either - demanding a woman take the shape of a teenage girl after motherhood is immature. Asking a wife to be sexually available is reasonable but asking her to look like a teenager sets everyone up for unmet expectations. Men are giving up access to youth for commitment to them and their children. If men don't want a family they can keep dropping women when they hit the Wall and get younger women as they age. They can do that but if they marry they are setting their children up for pain and desertion, they are breaking the commitment of marriage (which should mean something and is a contract) and I think they just shouldn't marry (and many, sensibly, don't.)

What Men Want - Sex and loyalty; the balance depends on their goals (many children with little resources given or devoted resources to a few children). Varied experiences and surprise/shock experiences drive up dopamine. (This is why pornographic images are so powerful and, I believe, dangerous - our brains can get overloaded with the billions of images of women and other sexually varied opportunities. I think men need to be responsible with their drives because there can be an intolerance to real flesh and blood women. I don't think this is immoral or bad, but I think if you want a strong relationship you should stay away from porn and just have lots of sex with your wife.) Men do want kids, but selfishly (and understandably) they don't want to risk themselves or their resources for children who are not theirs - they need to trust the loyalty of their women. Find you a loyal woman who is attracted to you such that she will consistently have sex with you.

Male responsibility: Be a man. Be logical and powerful and respectfully aggressive and a leader. It will feel "cold" in the face of overly emotional women, especially when the male needs to push the child from the nest. Women want to protect and mother children (not only their own real children, but the inner child they see in everyone....which is why western politics gets more liberal as that overbearing caretaking is run amok)....and this mothering is great when children are young and need it. Once they grow and can walk on their own and mature, men need to push the kids out and teach them how to protect themselves. There is a wonderful nurture/challenge balance at play when feminine and masculine forces are in balance correctly. Be a man and your woman will be attracted to you. Modern women will probably give you loads of BS but their bodies will react.

What Women Want - Genes and commitment of Powerful Men for their children. Women are more attracted to men with higher testosterone when they are ovulating. (Do not date while you are on birth control as the hormones effect your primal ability to choose mates to whom you are genetically attracted.) There is a helpful model of alpha/beta traits when looking for men - it is simplified but all models are. Beta = bonding traits of caretaking, commitment, and love. Alpha = protective and testosterone traits. Find you a man who can do both. Women want the genes of masculine men and they will be hypergamous (be on the lookout and mate with men who are of higher status than they are). You will need to quell this urge and be happy with the man who has chosen you and you are attracted to. It is correct that the female sex drive is stronger than many would like to admit and this is why - because women can and will have sex with men who are above them, but that doesn't mean the men will commit to lower women. Hypergamy doesn't help anyone in the long run.

Female responsibility: Don't give up sex to many men in your 20s - commit to a man early and let him enjoy your youth. The cold exchange is that he will let you enjoy his resources and power as he ages - it's a tradeoff (I realize in the modern world of both men and women working this doesn't always make sense but it's a good general thing to keep in mind with the power of young female appearances). When you allow yourself to be hypergamous in your 20s you're throwing that off balance. I also believe that bonding is like the glue on stickers - the first time you stick it, it is strong and then it gets less and less strong. The more sex you have the less strong your bonding will be with each successive partner. Guard your sexual bonding and be careful who you choose to have sex with. Personally, even though there is birth control my rule was to not have intercourse unless I wanted to have children with that man. That helped me a lot and I'm glad I did that - it meant I wasn't sexually clueless with my husband but I was a virgin because I didn't want to have intercourse with the boys and I was so attracted to my husband that we had sex before we married. (If you can't wait, I think that's a good indication you are pretty darn attracted to a man.) Point out and revel in the masculinity he shows - you will be more attracted to him (against your "intellectual" modern sensibilities, but your body will respond to his aggression and dominance). Learn sexual submission. I think the advice I've seen of this sub to learn to be more flirtatious is wrong - don't learn to flirt with many men, learn to flirt with YOUR MAN and your man alone. You have to discipline your desire to have children with powerful men. Be loyal!!! Keep your word, don't gossip, and don't flirt. Women take for granted that we know our children are ours - men do not have that luxury and loyalty is huge on a primal level that we really can't recognize intellectually. HAVE REALISTIC STANDARDS. You are most likely not an agreeable, high status, beautiful 10 who will attract a perfect Prince Charming/Mr. Darcy 6figure-salary-doctor-with-abs-man's-man-who-puts-rose-petals-in-your-bath. That stuff is female emotional porn and it makes realistic (great) men look like losers to you - it is DAMAGING and women need to cut it out to have a chance to be happy. Learn the discipline to be grateful for what your man does and point it out often and vocally. This speech from Katherina in Taming of the Shrew is beautiful regarding recognition for the gifts men give to their wives and families:

Thy husband is thy lord, thy life, thy keeper, Thy head, thy sovereign, one that cares for thee, And for thy maintenance commits his body To painful labour both by sea and land, To watch the night in storms, the day in cold, Whilst thou liest warm at home, secure and safe, And craves no other tribute at thy hands But love, fair looks, and true obedience, Too little payment for so great a debt.

How do you have realistic standards? I suggest making a list of everything you can offer a man, and make the equal list of masculine traits. That is the best you will attract. Be ruthlessly realistic. Keep male preferences in mind and just embrace stereotypes even if they are unPC or unfair or whatever.

  • You're a female 7 in looks? You will be lucky to find at best a male 7 in looks. You may end up with a 6 who has solid beta traits.

  • You want your house to look a "certain" way, your kids to dress the "right" way, and your husband to adhere to cultural memes in fashion and trendiness (high status desires)? You may need to accept a man who demands you look a certain way too and you will need the discipline to keep that up.

  • You can't submit or take someone's lead? You will probably end up with a man who can't lead out of fear or modern female conditioning - (this will be dismally unattractive to your primal female desire for masculinity).

  • You have bad financial vices - you can't save money and you expect a man to take care of you financially? Then you will need to accept his leadership and not have much of a say if you can't add to the partnership.

However, if you are pleasant and have great friends (not gossipy partiers), you will attract a man who helps others and is responsible with his word.

  • If you appreciate the masculine that your man brings, you will be attracted to him and he will stay with you

  • If you are a good financial partner, you can help the family

  • If you are high in looks, marrying early to a man who will rise in power (or is older and has power) but who is not interested in status will be stable for the both of you.

How to Balance Male/Female Desires: The solution most human cultures have come up with is marriage - a man and woman giving their equal respective sexual market bargaining power to each other and the family unit for long term good. The long term goal of family building is met, men get consistent sex and loyal women so they know the children they are putting resources into are actually theirs, and women get protection and resources to raise those children and their short term, life-threatening investment of creating children is matched with protection and resources for the long term. Marriage is imperfect but it is better in the long run for a stable society than going from mate to mate, creating children and raising them without the foundation of a committed partner. If men do not want their own children it makes no sense - while women are giving up their life potentially to bear children, men are giving up the resource and status improvement that happens as they age. They could have more women and children and leave each woman for a new one, but they do not. And women could keep having children with more and more powerful men but they don't. There are polygamous societies but this means that the top 20% of men get 80% of the women and it wastes the male potential of the other 80% and makes them sexually frustrated. War is an answer to ship off those young men but monogamy allows men and women to 1:1 pair off and more people are overall satisfied - if the women can keep their hypergamous nature in check.

Marriage is a legal contract. It is probably THE most important decision you will make in your life and it has huge consequences if the marriage doesn't work out. Your partner in life will effect everything in your life and your family. BE SERIOUS ABOUT MARRIAGE. In some sense, older generations don't do enough to coach the younger generations and I think that's why I'm on this subreddit. Not that I have all the answers, but I'm happily married and my husband is happily married and we have four young kids. Not everyone has that and I think RP has helped us keep the ship afloat and in the right direction. We are very satisfied with our lives and I wish everyone was this happy with their marriage.



  • Modern legal system favors the woman - so women marry and divorce and financially rape and emotionally devastate men who have made commitments. Solution: Prenups and clear expectations.

  • Women do not submit and they deny their husbands sex and/or manipulate with it. Solution: Do not marry a woman who cannot submit. Do not dare marry a woman who ever "rewards" you with sex or withholds it illogically - she is playing games with her power. I suspect (real) dancing is a good proxy for submission and partnership - men need to lead and be confident and women need to follow. Don't knock it until you try it. Dancing with a good partner is glorious.

  • Woman cannot accept The Wall and instead of celebrating others and putting energy into children, chase youth and destruction of others. This is just overall unattractive and unbecoming for the mother of your children. Solution: Find a woman who has spent time with elders. For the woman: embrace mothering skills and tendencies without being overbearing.


  • Men do not value consistent sex while married (if they get it, I am apt to think if they get it they will be satisfied) and "trade up" for younger women, neglecting their children from previous marriages. Wives are usually financially ok but they are past The Wall and have a hard time negotiating for a new partner who will be as good as their previous partner. Solution: Do not marry a man whose focus is on sex. Do NOT marry a man who is interested in pornography. Do not do sexual acts you disagree with but filter men who are focused on sex and not longer term goals. Consistently have sex and practice seeking out and recognizing the masculine in your partner so you want to have sex with him.

  • Men do not accept The Wall and demand unreasonable physical youthful appearance. Solution: Keep long term goals in mind together. Marry a man who has spent time with elders. Marry a man who respects and loves his mother and whose mother and father have stayed together and are happy with each other.

If married: Men do not act like Men (either their fault for not pushing despite female emotional tendencies and/or the women do not recognize and celebrate masculinity and instead attack and demean it) and women's attraction wanes, then sex drops off, man is resentful and withholds his responsibilities, woman is resentful and her hypergamy comes out, porn on both sides (sexual images for men and comparing her man to celebrity crushes/Prince Charming/Mr. Darcy for women), lack of trust and satisfaction....divorce/ and emotional devastation as the entire structure of marriage breaks down. Both try again with bitterness.....or just date and the market is flooded with jaded humans.

That helps lay out a lot of my initial thoughts on RP. These are the ideas I want to teach my children.

(I'd like to reformat to be more structured and clear but hey, gotta start somewhere. This was a comment on a deleted post.)

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Post Information
Title Understanding RP: What I've Learned and Will Teach My Kids
Author nonamanuensis
Upvotes 96
Comments 34
Date September 19, 2017 5:30 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link
Original Link

[–]EGOtyst28 points29 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's it. Wrap it up. Red pill finished, nothing else, really, for anyone to add.

[–]Tense_Supervillain1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why I gave up on the system in the first place long before the whole RP thing, I saw this coming a mile away because when overprivileged people don't get what they want all hell breaks loose.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha exactly!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Except that she forgot to add how to slay cock with her alpha pussy

Edit: Does no one understand jokes nowadays?

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Couldn't agree more. I'd also add that "being RP" does not mean you can't have a career, support women's rights, vote for Hillary, etc. It is about your romantic relationships with men, not your value in society.

[–]disengagecrazy3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No. Never Hillary. Feminism is cancer. Please stop.

[–]bounce-bounce-drop7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hm. This is very interesting. When I was younger, I believed these things whole heartedly. The reality is I'm very intelligent and capable. And it's the rare person of either gender who is my equal or above; I'm perfectly willing to admit when I'm wrong or follow a better idea or honor someone else's feelings, but I am definitely not willing to make the wrong decision because someone less capable than me suggests it. I tried to find these alpha men I could happily submit to; I wanted to submit. I realized they didn't exist (or I didn't find them anyhow) outside of a few I met in religious communities, and I wasn't religious enough for them (understandable).

I'm now with a man who actively wanted me to cut my hair into a pixie cut (which I did, having wanted to do so for most of my life but not doing it since it would unnecessarily filter out men). I make five times as much as him. He cooks and cleans significantly more than me. We are likely going to have him stay home with the children while I work when we have kids since my income is so much higher. This SOUNDS very not RP to me (so he should be unhappy and so should I, right?), but perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

We practiced (and conquered) communication with People Skills by Robert Bolton. We compromise. In some areas he's hyper sensitive, in some areas I am. We tread carefully in those areas. Both of us see how we present ourselves as signaling devices more than anything else; we both shower/bathe perhaps 1 out of 3 days, neither of us dress particularly well more than once a week, we both tend to look rather homeless on the regular, but we're both still highly attracted to one another as well.

perfect Prince Charming/Mr. Darcy 6figure-salary-doctor-with-abs-man's-man-who-puts-rose-petals-in-your-bath

He's pretty perfect. He's stunning. His family has millions. He is amazingly fit. He wakes up on the regular singing in my ear, "Time for beautiful women to wake up and conquer the day!" or pulling me in close and telling me how the best part of his day is waking up with me.

The reality is he isn't hyper masculine, I'm not hyper feminine, we both have masculine and feminine qualities and we compromise and work to understand one another rather than assuming gendered tropes.

Being super clear about what I find attractive and him doing the same does wonders. For example, I like when he pays when we go out. But he doesn't have the money, so I venmo it afterwards my half. But it makes me feel cared for when we're in public for his card to be the one we send back. Knowing that about myself, communicating it, and having it honored has been a hell of a lot more valuable than him assuming what I wanted (he likely would have assumed I wanted a higher earning partner; very hard considering my income bracket). Him communicating his preference for a pixie cut was also high value.

Anyway, I just like this community overall and was curious about how it works out we're so happy when it seems like the RedPill doctrine isn't being followed, instead 100% honest, clear communication about our specific preferences have added value.

[–]nonamanuensis 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, I don't think there's 100% RP doctrine. I just take the things that make sense (the legal importance of marriage and the primal sexual strategies and default behaviors of each sex) and don't deny them. I'm certainly not going to drill into my kids' heads that this ("RP") is THE truth but hopefully my observations and understandings can help them when they are going into the world and making their own decisions about who to marry. I wasn't counseled when young on how important and serious the marriage contract is and how to balance the male and female strategies and I'd like to add that to my kids' options of helpful models.

I make more than my husband and work full time while he has been the primary caregiver at home with our young kids. For some RP circles that's worthy of pearl-clutching but it certainly works out for us very well - we are both very attracted to each other, appreciate the contributions of the other, and after 10 years our relationship gets better and better. :)

I am definitely not hyper feminine and my husband likes it that way too - we both think heels and makeup are pretty silly and he'd prefer me to wear clothes I can run around in and work in vs. fashionable clothing that can't be messed up. But we aren't highly into status so that makes a difference. He looks stunningly masculine to me (and acts masculine) but he does the vast majority of homemaking (cooking and cleaning) and child rearing. I think ultimately if both partners have similar values then they can work out almost any arrangement. For my marriage, we both knew having many kids was our goal together and our comparative advantages work well with the roles we've chosen.

I find some of the logic of RP to make more sense than what I was taught by our overall culture, women's magazines, romantic movies, etc. I especially don't like the male-bashing of modern culture and that's what first led me to RP ideas overall. I find the advice for women "to be more agreeable" to not be the epitome of what a women should be but it is a helpful way to counteract the entitlement that women are taught and the "girls rule boys drool" attitude that is pervasive. I find more RP circles to have ideas on how to embrace the masculinity apparent in my little boys instead of trying to make them more like little girls..who at the same time are just trying to be more like boys: my tl;dr perspective of modern culture.

I appreciate your response and am glad you have found each other!

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading the above ^ as well as your initial post. So many of the posts in this forum come from women living or aspiring to live a very traditional life where the primary earner is their husband. Refreshing to hear from someone who's enjoying a successful marriage with a different situation.

[–]Unicornscented5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Wow you think very little of your own gender....

[–]nonamanuensis 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I can understand why it would seem that way based on my comments. I am very happy to be a woman though.

[–]Unicornscented7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure, after you finish apologising to men for your many flaws..... Cause you seem to think women just are flawed.

[–]Atomicbebe9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I read most of it, I don't see a lot of this happening in reality, particularly the wall. You just don't see it in reality. I'm over 30, I have had a group of women friends over the years and while most were married, people became single or single girls joined the group. The only women who had any trouble finding a guy were 50lbs overweight and fussy or had some extreme quirk that annoyed both men and women alike. Also, the majority of marriages that ended was because men cheated, it's a minority, a ton have stayed together with men who didn't stray or end the marraige. Men are not as bad as the red pill thinks either. And the guys that cheated were just cheaters, some of the women were hot. I do not see a correlation with cheating because the wife was unattractive, I see a mix. The red pill looses its credibility when people get extreme on it and say things that just don't happen. Yes there are some basic truths but half the stuff you see posted anyone with a brain and some life experience will look around and say "but that never happens in real life."

[–]nonamanuensis 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Like any model, it's imperfect. My experience has been different from yours - I know many single women in their 30s and older who held out for their dream man and their pool of available men get smaller and smaller. Women who did marry later had to settle. They wonder why this is happening when they are such a "catch" meaning they are educated and have a solid career - but that isn't the driving force behind fertility cues for women. And I am acquainted with a large amount of women who publicly criticize their husbands and wonder why their husbands' involvement and engagement gets smaller and smaller.

I'm not sure how to improve the post with your feedback as I don't think men cheat because their wives are unattractive - my guess is that men cheat because their wives withhold 1 sex (and/or use it as a manipulating tool) and 2 appreciation and they can find those needs met in other women so they do. I have been in situations where men admit they have had weeks, months, and YEARS of a dead bed and the woman just demands more more more from the husband, while his lack of sexual dominance just makes her less and less attracted to him.

Young women are not counseled about how important consistent sex is for men. Yes, that sounds sexist and old-fashioned and demeaning (?) for women to our modern ideals but it is what it is. People can choose to be "right" or they can choose to be happy with this concept.

Some people think the amount of sex a couple has is an indication of how close they are but I think it's just as much the other way around and the emotional/physical closeness is a cyclical balance from both the man and the women.

Your point that RP loses credibility when people get extreme is very true. Some of the things that very traditional RP circles state are eye-rolling to me, and some of the things the more male circles believe in are horrific to me. I think there's very good reasons over centuries that concepts like marriage, loyalty, wifely "duties", etc have been helpful for men and women to understand and behave.

My goal with the post was try to lay out how I understand the foundation of RP principles to advise my children. Given your experience, how would you advise young women to not end up with a cheating husband? And would you tell a 20 year old that she has plenty of time and can wait until her 30s to get married and have kids, or would you tell her to be serious earlier?

[–]Atomicbebe8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would advise 20 year olds to wait until 25 to get married. A lot of divorces I know of claim that it was caused by getting married too young. There are studies that say that your personality doesn't fully form until 25 or so. For avoiding a cheater, sometimes it's just unavoidable but I would say choose a guy with good values, treats all people with respect and has some self control. people with values and some self discipline and likely to be more stable. I will teach my daughter that first impression count and how you present yourself counts, that men value how you look. That sex and being sexy is fun and perfectly ok. That learning to cook healthy and nutritious meals of appropriate calorie counts is a life skill. That decorating and dressing nice is fun. I would never tell her that men cheat if you are not good in bed, I just have never seen that in real life. In fact one marraige that just ended the wife used to tell us about their kinky sex. They guy left her for a prostitute. We all knew he was an odd guy with questionable behaviour and values (so was his wife in some ways) When I read the dead bedrooms sub I just see people with mental problems over many years. I think we need to be balanced in what we tell our kids because the worst 10% of human behaviour is not the average or standard that we should expect in life.

[–]the_fat_whisperer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I appreciate that you pointed out that being overweight alone doesn't necessarily make it significantly more difficult for women to find men if thats what they are looking for. Personality can do so much to improve someone's attractiveness, man or woman. It doesn't replace having realistic expectations for both men or women, but developing an attractive personality will make it easier to find someone who has done the same and in the end likely make you happier.

[–]disengagecrazy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The guys that are out looking for the girls you describe are not serious or are betas. The alphas I've seen hit it and leave it unless she is under 24. Dudes complain all the time when they don't get girls younger than 29. You're past your prime once you hit your 30's and to be thinking about having a baby then, you most definitely will need to consider possible birth defects etc.

[–]mrssmithhh3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I love your post! TRP was extremely hard for me to swallow as well - when I had my first pregnancy, the reality of it hit me VERY hard. I was 26, and changed seemingly overnight from a super-hot, super-sought-out girl to this THING that almost no one noticed and the only topics people spoke with me about included babies. Throw this in with the hubby and I still hanging out with a young, single 20-something crowd (aka 23 year old girls constantly showing TNA), and MEGA insecurities abounded. Yeah, I'd known TRP prior to this, but before it had only been theory. I did not think I was a bad person, or used my looks in bad ways, but I had never realized just how much my looks affected how others treated me and the value that people gave me. Suddenly I realized how hard it must be, and how much love a man must feel, and how badly he must want to be a father and experience raising a family, to be able to commit to one woman when, let's face it, there are ALWAYS younger, hotter woman readily available. And I realized just how excruciatingly vulnerable my pregnancy made me, and then childbirth itself was terrible and my body felt so broken, and I realized that I needed his support and commitment in a very visceral way, as well as emotional. Then I realized all the ways in which I could hurt HIM. If I had wanted, I could destroy him. It would be relatively easy. And pre-DNA tests I could just use him to pay for me to have babies with the next available hottest stud.

Old-fashioned, life-long commitment really is the only way for either gender to flourish, and for the family to thrive. Sure, men could pump and dump forever, and women could trade up for as long as her looks would allow, but this weakens the family unit. Both genders sacrifice, and tbh, even at 28 years old I feel like I have learned SO many life lessons of grace, humility, and the thrill and exhilartation to letting go and trusting my man to love and protect me. Yes, even as I age (my WALL anxiety has apparently been with me for as long as I can remember, and having children was a fast confrontation of it's event), I can relax and know that my man understands the pain and vulnerability I feel and, while he is very much a man and likes women, he loves me and will always be my hero.

TRP is very real, but there is a way to be moral and just about meeting your own needs, and it is a pleasure to be part of it.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

A lot of this is good, but some of it is very off. RP is not useless to women after the wall. Also, plenty of guys don't see women as nothing but sex toys if they don't want kids. As for the idea that women basically stop being sexy or sexual beings after a certain age, that's a misunderstanding. The aging and effects are real. But I'm not sure you realize this--the idea that childbearing and then passing a certain age kind of desexualizes women into a matronly mommy and coach role is a very Puritan, American idea. It has been exacerbated by feminism, which encourages letting yourself go after the wall. Anyone whose had any experience with, for example, much of Western European culture, will realize this is not universal. For example France. Une femme d'un certain age is a sexy older woman.

Fully agree that the loss of youthful type beauty needs to be replaced with learning some sensual flirting, plus the personality and confidence only some aging can bring (to men or women.). But let's not encourage women to give up and be in a pure matronly roles after kids.

Edit: this is a super important point. Many a ruined married is caused by a woman becoming totally Mommy and dropping the Wife and Sexual Being role.

[–]nonamanuensis 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thanks for the comment.

Do you have any advice on how to embrace "une femme d'un certain age" for this sub?

[–]Rivkariver2 Star2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The physical is skincare and fitness and good diet and tasteful makeup. Too much makeup will age you. Maybe certain things can be done that will look good on red carpet with professional cameras or on tv, but it won't IRL. Too much powder makeup is aging so keep it minimal. Too much eye makeup as well.

As you age you want to remain a sexual being, you just don't want to do it in the same manner a 19 year old would. That's why women embarrass themselves. The goal is sophisticated elegance and understatement implying sensuality. Not acting cutesy and too young.

TL;DR: be a MILF

[–]lidlredridinghood7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link


But starting out seemed solid.

Also, men developed physical violence.... women developed emotional violence..we naturally balance each other

[–]the_fat_whisperer3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

New to the sub, so I'm sure this point has been covered and/or debunked. At least in Western society, a lot of men struggle with women being able to say or do almost anything they want to a man without immediate fear of violence (in someone not known to be violent). Men expect physical violence if they aggravate another man to whatever his threshold for violence is. This doesn't make either better or worse than the other, it just highlights a difference in how we relate to each other.

[–]Natrix032 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good job, read the entire thing :)

[–]elasto1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do not like the manipulation of RP

It sounds like your only experience of RP is on Reddit. Reddit happens to be a bit more extremist in many political areas, even RP. If you go out IRL and meet real people, they are not hateful and bitter like Reddit RP. They are much more moderate.

[–]WalnutFeline1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for this post...I'm new to RPW but I really like this summary. Something to memorize!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I wish more redpill content was like this. Your writing is well put and seems to come from a palce of good faith. It's difficult for me to read a lot of the redpill content written by men as too much of it reads as outright bitter/resentful/misogynist i.e. referring to women as bitches/cunts, saying things like "Remember, women are children: mentally, behaviourally, evolutionarily. They are not like us. They don’t think like us, or have the same deep sense of personal responsibility." which just comes off as an outright mistrust and chauvanism towards women.

One matter I would like to ask your opinion on is that of infertile women. If so much of what you allege women provide to men is their ability to bare children, are infertile women simply doomed? Should they just accept they're lot in life?

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I encourage you to create the kind of content you enjoy.

I see people complaining, but not actually taking action, which means they are just as much at fault as anyone else.

Take action and be more than an observer. :)

[–]nonamanuensis 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you. I also find some RP content very difficult to read because of the hostile attitudes.

As to your specific question - I don't have a black/white opinion on infertile women and marriage. While the historical context behind the concept of marriage is for two people to have children and provide a stable home - with the woman to exchanging her childbearing for the man's protection and resources - I don't think it means that infertile people shouldn't marry. And certainly today that's not how modern people view marriage (regardless of whether that view is good/bad). My intention of explaining marriage like this to my kids will be to give an understanding of the usefulness of the agreement and how it might have been imprinted in us in some way so it's good to keep in mind. We have only had DNA paternity tests very recently in human history, and so far everything I know about about a stable long term marriage bodes well for child rearing.

I wonder what happened in the past with infertility once it was discovered - like common law practices. In a less luxurious society where having children meant more labor I'm sure it was painful for infertile women but that's not our world today.

So I think an infertile woman isn't necessarily doomed to be single her entire life. As long as she is honest about her condition upfront then she can be filter out men who wouldn't want to be married to an infertile woman. Some people don't want kids and they still get married. And some people definitely want to adopt and it's a great match for everyone involved. Maybe she would meet an infertile man and they'd be able to go through that together if they both did/didn't want children.

I do hold the opinion that if you don't want kids then I wouldn't understand why someone would want to be married today (especially men) given the risks, but that's my cold 0.02$ opinion and worth about that much probably. I haven't been in a childfree partnership that needs the legal and financial protections/privileges that marriage grants but I understand why some people who don't want kids would get married.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Quality post! It's substantial, so it took me awhile to get around to it.

[–]RedPillWonder0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is well done.

I wish a lot more women would take these words to heart and diligently apply them in their lives.

Enjoyed the quote from Katherina in Taming of the Shrew. Nice touch. :)

All the best to you and your family!

[–]Kate_A_D0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

''There is a submission/dominance circuit in mammals for sexuality and partnership. It does not mean that a woman is lifeless and spineless but that she puts down the "girl power!"

I'm curious what you are referring with this part? I can only think of a handful of (none domesticated) mammals where the males have true dominance and most of the power. Chimps for one... and its not a pretty social structure we would envy.

Even lions, which people usually associate with the prime example of male dominance is not nearly as clear cut as it seems. Male wins combat against other male, while females lay back and watch, and takes over the pride is only one of the many scenarios. The end result for the male conqueror has more to do with the lionesses themselves. Their age, experience, the season (rainy vs dry), abundance of prey, the TYPE of prey mostly available, the presence of hyenas, the surrounding competition from other lion tribes, the age and prime state and perceived genetic quality of their current male, the age of their cubs, the chances of survival of new cubs vs the ones they currently have, the amount of lionesses in the pride, their hunting skills, and the power balance among them within the pride... and on and on and on. The male that shows up to take over the pride might find himself attacked and torn to bits by the entire pride, or the females might lay back and wait to see the outcome. Sometimes two males come in and the females fight one off while they leave their male to fight a fair one on one combat with the remaining competitor.... sometimes they let the two males kick their male's ass, and sometimes they join their male and fight them off entirely.

[–]nonamanuensis 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kate_A_D0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah okay I see! Interesting article, with some valid points, though I think they go a bit overboard with their notion that GENDER EQUALITY is damaging sexual relations. Gender equality is basically this:

"Gender equality, equality between men and women, entails the concept that all human beings, both men and women, are free to develop their personal abilities and make choices without the limitations set by stereotypes, rigid gender roles and prejudices. Gender equality means that the different behavior, aspirations and needs of women and men are considered, valued and favored equally. It does not mean that women and men have to become the same, but that their rights, responsibilities and opportunities will not depend on whether they are born male or female. Gender equity means fairness of treatment for women and men, according to their respective needs. This may include equal treatment or treatment that is different but which is considered equivalent in terms of rights, benefits, obligations and opportunities." — ABC Of Women Worker's Rights And Gender Equality, ILO, 2000. p. 48.

If you need to lose your freedoms and rights and equal opportunities to advance in your career in order for a man to be aroused to you (and you to him) behind closed doors, then there is something very disturbing going on.

With that said, I agree that dominance and submission is very often at play during sex, and can be a great arousal factor... but that is a whole other thing that has little to do with actual gender equality. One could even argue how much it actually truly is dominance and submission when both parties can turn the tables depending on their moods that night. I think that most women ARE attracted to men who display certain levels of dominance... towards other men. It is true for most female mammals as well, but when you look at a very large portion of them you realize that the dominant males are mainly exerting their dominance over... other males. In most ungulates, for example, the females just go wherever the hell they want to go. Usually places with lots of food and water and that are deemed safer. The males, however, are going to establish territories. They fight one another in order to get hold of the best territory they can. The best territory will happen to be... whatever place it is that the females want to hang out at the most! If they can get access to a great place where females want to hangout, while keeping other males at bay, then their chances for mating are pretty darn great! The females don't really care and will be willing to mate with whatever male holds that territory, because they know that he probably is fit and strong and has good genetics or else he would not be able to keep the other males at bay. If something happens and the territory is no longer deemed desirable, than they usually leave and the male will have lost his prized area and need to fight other males for another one. Males usually grow bigger and stronger than females... because they need to fight other males. That still doesn't stop species like baboons and horses and orcas to have females as the social leaders, though the males are much bigger and stronger.

That female rat having the males chase her before she will mate? They do that to test the male's physical condition. Female rats are usually much more hyperactive than males, and have higher energy levels. By getting several males to madly chase after her she gets to see which of them are fit enough to keep up with her. Rats do have a strict hierarchy where each individual has a rank. If the female had such submissive desires for the dominant male, she would mate mainly with him and not flirt in front of the whole group to have them all chase her. I think the article read too much into that mating ritual.

If my bf shows that he is more skilled or smarter or more mature or even has better self control than another man, it WILL make me think he's more attractive! ;) If he shows that he has all these skills over a woman however... I really won't give a damn. That's not who he is supposed to be in competition with. If he actively tries to dominate (albeit in subtle and non violent ways) another man, I'll think its appealing. If he does that with a woman... not so much.

Sure there's all these fantasy books going around depicting strong dominant males sweeping submissive women off their feet and protecting them... but those are fantasies. Fantasies in which the writer (whose writing about her OWN romantic/erotic fantasy) has full control over said lover. Those lovers also usually promise eternal love, admire the woman regardless of how cruel/selfish/bland/monstrous she may be, and in the end they change for her (the way she wants him to) and ''dominate'' them in ways that they want... when they want it. ONLY when and how it suits them. These books often contain subtle (or not so subtle) forms of ''rape fantasy'', which is not truly rape at all since the author is in full control of said rape. Its only going to happen with the smexy, tall, dark handsome man who she happened to want to have sex with anyways!

Well, that was my train of thought! Which I'm probably not finished with but I really need to go to bed now! :) Anyways, I hope I managed to at least entertain you with this thought train. :P

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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