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Unpopular opinion: saying that we do makeup for ourselves and not for others is false

February 9, 2021

First of all, I would like to say that I do my makeup when I go out. My post is not attacking people who do their makeup, but rather the concept of makeup itself. This also does not apply to makeup artistry. I'm speaking more about makeup that is used to enhance/cover features such as mascara, concealer, foundation, etc.

I have been thinking about this for some time, but I feel as though makeup has further enhanced the patriarchal beauty standard and in a way, us women have continued to allow the standard to stay unattainable and unnatural by doing makeup. So many women when confronted with someone against them wearing makeup argue "well I don't wear it for other people!" but I think that we all do, either consciously or subconsciously. I mean technically we might feel like we do it for our own self confidence, but i think that confidence is reliant on ideas of beauty created by society that we have learnt all throughout our lives (which we actively contribute to) because we want to feel like we are beautiful and conformed. I mean if we did it ONLY for ourselves and only dressed for ourselves, then why do most of us sit alone at home bare faced unless we are feeling bored and want to hype ourselves up. I feel like what we TRULY do for ourselves and not subconsciously for the beauty standard, is self care, such as hygiene, because makeup meant to enhance/manipulate our features has no true benefits.

I mean just considering concealer (which i use often) and contour, concealer literally covers dark circles which some of us naturally have, or blemishes. How can someone convince me that we don't cover these because we don't want others to see how tired we are, or see the "imperfections " in our skin.

I just feel like natural styles of makeup and filters on social media, etc. Just keep pushing unattainable beauty, and it makes me wonder if these things didn't exist, would we be more accepting of these so called "ugly traits" as a society. I mean when women judge men, some women even LIKE the tired rugged look, and its not like we care too much about a few blemishes or wrinkles on men. Men now are even turned off when they see a woman's bare face and think she's tired or sick, even tho they claim to loveee natural, because what they consider natural has been clouded by makeup that is purposely meant to look natural. A man who loves a truly natural girl either a. Is mature enough to love a woman past just her looks or appreciates how she looks regardless of whether she is completely "perfect" appearance wise or not OR b. She already naturally has the almost unattainable beauty standard of looks (clear skin, long lashes, etc).

I don't want to be coming off as a femcel, I just genuinely want to know what other people think because my personal experience has been that even tho I put mostly light makeup, I still feel like I feel extra beautiful with makeup, because without it, i almost feel bare, with my dark undereyes, or light brown and straight eyelashes, or whatever I feel insecure about that day doesn't fit the perfect mold that continues to be perpetuated, and I imagine maybe others feel the same. Or maybe you completely disagree! I want to know or maybe even change my mind, cause it is a bit of a pessimistic mindset.

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Post Information
Title Unpopular opinion: saying that we do makeup for ourselves and not for others is false
Author carrothairs
Upvotes 153
Comments 94
Date February 9, 2021 7:47 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
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Original Link

[–]SandSpren51 points52 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

100% agree. It's an example of a supernormal stimulus that desensitises people to naturally attainable beauty.

[–]P0WERPLANTH0MER22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with your reasoning. The word "make up" itself literally already means covering for or adding onto something that was lacking. ie. "I'll make up for lost time"

[–]anothergoodbook23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I see what you are saying. Sometimes though I really do put on concealer (at home by myself) that makes me look less tired and It makes me feel a little less tired. I feel like it’s similar to taking a shower and smelling better or changing my clothes and making my hair look less crazy. It just does something to make me feels better. Maybe that’s some patriarchal standard, but it is still for me in the moment.

I do agree with the push of filters and constant in your face perfection that the idea of natural beauty becomes archaic. It’s sort of like the nature pictures that are so saturated that when you visit the real thing you’re disappointed.

[–]carrothairs[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love the way you use makeup at home. Very unique and I can see being very beneficial :) I think makeup has many uses that can be good, I am more concerned about makeup that is used for purely cosmetic purposes that changes the way our natural, beautiful faces look, that kinda pushes that constant face perfection.

[–]PlanetSquare5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I like makeup because it helps me achieve certain aesthetics. I'm a big fan of alternative fashion, and makeup really helps bring the look together. What is the e-girl style without thick eyeliner and excessive blush? I also often like to make it look like I have dark circles and make my lip color look a bit undead.

I just like fashion and expressing myself.

Though yeah I also want to be considered more attractive. I want people to think I'm like a 6 instead of a 5 and I like the compliments I get when I wear makeup. My skin is already nice though so it's less about hiding imperfections for me, and more just bringing focus to my eyes.

Though even if I was trying to hide imperfections, that's valid. I don't understand why people try to vilify that. We live in a shallow world with shallow people.

Some people look wildly different without makeup, and I don't think that's lying or false advertising or whatever else people say. If someone felt like they had to become a different person just to be presentable in front of people, don't attack their solution without addressing the problem.

There is a lot of hostility towards those who don't meet the beauty standard.

People treat you so much better when they think you're pretty, not just people who would like to date you, even old ladies will be nicer to you, at least in my experience, so there is a lot of incentive to look good.

To be a effortless beauty is a fantasy. Even super models put a lot of effort through dieting, skincare, professional hair-stylists, discrete filler, etc to maintain their looks.

I got braces, just so my teeth would look nicer when I smiled. My teeth were fine and healthy, just really crooked and unattractive. I hated the comments I would get about my crooked teeth so I'm fixing it. Then I'm gonna bleach them and have perfect straight white teeth, and I would have gone from having teeth that noticeably detracted from my appearance to having them actually enhancing it. It's a lot of pain and discomfort but in the end it will be all worth it. I guess you could say I'm doing it for others, since I'm doing it so other people wont say mean things to me or think of me as lesser for my teeth. You could also say I'm doing it for myself because it will help my self esteem, though I wouldn't have even needed to build my self esteem up if it weren't for people constantly putting me down for it. It's sort of hard to love yourself for who you are when you're constantly reminded of all why you shouldn't.

What people consider fake and what they consider acceptable makes no sense to me. So wearing makeup to enhance your appearance is fake, but shaving your body so you are unnaturally hairless is just hygiene? Everyone gets braces so getting cosmetic work done on your teeth is just normal, but getting rhinoplasty or filler makes you vain? It's literally all the same thing. Changing yourself for beauty.

Either it's okay to just exist as your natural form (and it's not unless you already come close to what the beauty standard is), or it's okay to change yourself, with whatever method is reasonable for you.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I feel for you for so many of those points. I guess what I am tryna say is for things like braces (which are sometimes a medical necessity), or working out etc, are things we can achieve but its still our body, while makeup is more of a quick cover up. There is no shame in wanting to be attractive to others, I mean I even had an otoplasty because my ears stuck out and it was considered a deformity (and I know for a fact that I did it because societal beauty standards consider big sticking out ears dopey), and that's what RPW is all about if I'm not mistaken, like accepting that it is ok to want to attract men or women or whatever you are into. I just wish the way it was achieved was through enhancing what we are born with rather than creating facial features through covering up.

[–]PlanetSquare1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I know this is probably pointless to say especially since you already had it "fixed", but I find it very attractive when ears stick out. I'm not sure why but I think it's really cute and endearing. I don't see it in adults very often since people often get it corrected especially when it's very pronounced, but whenever I do see someone with ears like that I can't help but smile. I want to tell them how much I like their ears but in the time it takes trying to figure out how to say that without sounding weird or making them self conscious the have already gone about their day.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I also wish we could just enhance what we are born with. Sooner or later we are all going to look the same because any deviation is considered ugly and we get shamed for it until we conform. It's already happening, most Instagram models look like the same 3 people over and over again.

[–]carrothairs[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's already happening, most Instagram models look like the same 3 people over and over again

YES THIS!!!! I used to feel insecure about seeing them until I recognized that there is nothing unique and they all look like carbon copies, and I mean they are still beautiful. Its not their fault and I'm sure many of them are friendly women, but I no longer compare myself to that, and find myself admiring women with unique beautifulfeatures.

whenever I do see someone with ears like that I can't help but smile

Haha that makes me so happy :) I actually got them fixed in December. When I was little I used to love my ears cause I thought they were unique and what made me myself until kids got ruthless. Also my ears are big as well, and one of them stuck out while the other didn't which made it more strange to me, so it was kind of a double whammy and I didn't want them to be something that people saw as a main feature of mine. I still really appreciate this tho, and I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't have done it, but I do feel more confident when putting my hair up now so I guess life is better.

[–]PlanetSquare2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I get what you mean by admiring women with unique features. Actually I've recently actually been starting to find beauty in a lot of older women. I think I used to be terrified of aging because I believed the silly misogynic narrative that women become unattractive after, 45, 35, 25, 15, I don't know, the ages seem to get younger every time I hear it, and that a women's worth is only in her appearance. I remember turning 19 and feeling depressed because it meant I was one year closer inevitable and inescapable worthlessness.

I'm 22 now and I'm not as afraid of being old one day because I think most older women I encounter are actually very lovely and I wouldn't mind being more like them. I'd like to be very wise and skillful in a range of ways like them. I see a lot of older ladies in my day to day life with long silver hair and I think they are beautiful, not just for their age, and not because they look younger than they really are, but just beautiful just as they are. Pretty eyes, pleasant smiles, classy clothes, charming personalities. I think people confuse beautiful with fuckable, and if something doesn't give them the tingles they just dismiss it as unattractive.

Sometimes people and things are just pleasant to look at and pleasant to be around though, even if they don't fit whatever standard is being pushed or don't appeal to the stereotypically male gaze.

Anyways rant aside, if you feel more confident now though its worth it. Sometimes I think the same thing about my teeth, but in the end I would rather just have objectively nice teeth than to appeal to a niche demographic that prefers a snaggletooth.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm also not afraid of being older. I think grey hair is charming anyways!

[–]CountTheBees18 points19 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I think makeup covers too much. It covers your natural face changes throughout your menstrual cycle, it covers you looking tired (which is a sign you should get more sleep), covers pimples (signs of hormonal imbalance if they don't go away after the period, also stress), covers natural arousal (reddened cheeks/lips, darker eyelids), it covers all these wonderful things you can use as a roadmap to better health and self-knowledge.

I actually notice myself getting prettier/uglier in time with my menstrual cycle. I am prettiest around ovulation, and ugliest during the week of my period. The lines around my mouth get deeper and my face/jaw is less symmetrical. I also notice some foods make my skin more glowy ( chamomile tea) while others make my lips darker (coconut juice). Too much dairy makes my skin worse.

Regarding the rest of it, I reckon we wear it to compete with other women, not to impress men. My boyfriend prefers no makeup anyway.

[–]carrothairs[S] 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I totally agree. It takes away a lot of what makes us real people with changing bodies, and puts our focus on getting fast results rather than putting in the time to make sure we are healthy. There is such a stigma and fear of looking old that often people resort to covering it up, when embracing these natural changes would be so wonderful, and maybe it'd allow us to connect with our health and happiness more.

About women competing with women, that's true because its not like everyone woman is seeking a man, but I do think that attracting men (and generally people) and appearing beautiful to everyone is a factor that many (and ofc not all) women compete on as well, so the men further the competition in a kind of like a supply and demand way, where you see women with "natural" makeup (that is sometimes as heavy as normal glam) getting more attention and admiration thinking its reality, while women who wear makeup can usually tell if another girl is wearing it, so atleast the toxic facade of "born this way" perfection isn't always there.

[–]CountTheBees6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Nothing comes for free. The women that get admiration for their heavy makeup, imagine how they feel when they take it off for bed, or when they wake up in the morning. Everything in life has a price. The price is feeling ugly without it.

Remember when Katy Perry had a fight with Russell Brand over him tweeting a photo of her without makeup? He thought she was cute, but she saw it as humiliating.

So don't worry about those girls too much. They have their own problems.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Completely agree, and I feel for girls who put heavy makeup on because I could be like that, but I know itd make me feel more selfconscious without. I wish that price that is paid wasn't that drastic or that they had to feel ugly without it.

[–]CountTheBees-3 points-2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why? Don't feel bad about consequences. They made their choice. Same as a man who chooses a heavily made up girl over a plain one. He made his choice too. Consequences are how people learn.

There was a wonderful man I was talking to here, who said he was with his wife/gf for five years. He was a player until he met her, and the way he met her was at a party, where all the other girls were attacking her for her views. She wasn't flustered at all and held her ground. He had never noticed her before because she was mousy, but as soon as she spoke he knew she was special, and what she spoke about was something very important to him. He walked into the circle of girls and asked her out. Their jaws dropped because someone like him was interested in someone like her, over something like that. He's never regretted it.

The only reason they feel ugly is because they don't have anything else to offer. Our society deliberately robs girls of their most beautiful characteristics (modesty, humility, kindness, innocence, intelligence, caring, moral values) and replaces them with ugly ones (vanity, entitlement, greed, depravity, complacence, selfishness, indulgence). Of course they feel ugly, they are ugly. And don't you try to tell them they're not ugly, because that's the only way they can tell something is wrong.

[–]carrothairs[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yea i suppose heavy makeup in itself is like a gym rat guy. They're so hyper focused on the outer appearance that what truly counts (their character, loyalty, intelligence) Is neglected. That sounds like a wonderful man. I'd probably cry of joy if that happened to me cause it sounds like such a beautiful movie moment haha!

I guess this is exactly why I feel frustration towards makeup usage. It supports a shallow culture. The boys and girls my age right now are so stuck on hookup culture and this insane emphasis of looking "hot" over beautiful, and I've often felt pressured to let myself go and conform but I've been holding my ground as best as I can and trying my best to stay true to my own beliefs and passions, altho I indulge a bit like with using some makeup, and dressing in ways that make me feel attractive.

[–]CountTheBees1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

At a young age it's natural to experiment with makeup, clothes, etc. Experiment, get it out of your system, don't rely on it.

I'm 27 now, and when I look back at photos of me at 17, I can not believe how good I looked. Whatever defects I thought I had were all in my head. My skin was gorgeous (I always thought it was spotty and oily). Take lots of good photos of yourself without makeup, because in 10 years you will be gobsmacked at how beautiful youth is by itself.

[–]carrothairs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you :) I love experimenting with clothes and my style! 27 is just as beautiful as I imagine you have learnt much valuable knowledge and experiences. I think I tend to rely on makeup meant to cover undereyes the most because I have a lot of very deep eye circles (not an exaggeration, people around me get concerned sometimes) from sleep deprivation more so than anything else, so if I sleep well I'll probably feel better about going natural more when I'm seeing people. I don't wear makeup for simple errands but I do if I am going to meet friends, but I would like to lessen it. Thanks for the advice <3

[–]bunnyinbeastmode0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think women who wear makeup necessarily feel ugly without it. How do you know that? Some might, but on that same spectrum some don’t! ☺️

[–]CountTheBees-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well there's two reasons they might do it. 1) is they feel ugly on the outside and 2) is they feel ugly on the inside.

Why would you change something that is already good enough? Do you give your house a fresh coat of paint every month? Do you wash your car when it's clean? Do you iron a shirt if it has no creases? Why would you apply makeup if you're already pretty?

"Well", you say, "maybe it's self expression". But if they want to be artistic, they can paint a picture, not their face. Your face is your identity, much more personal than clothes or hair. Covering it up is an act of self-denial. Claiming it's art is like cutting into your forearm and saying, "but the scars are artistic!" Ok, if you want to be artistic, why did you choose to cut your forearm?!

I used to wear makeup. Not heavy/glam, but definitely in bright/unusual colours. I used it to cheer me up. But the act of modifying my identity to cheer me up says volumes, doesn't it?

[–]bunnyinbeastmode0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also dude, I went through your comments on your profile to get a better understanding of who you are- and a lot of them are outright mean and rude. You have no respect for other women because you probably don’t love yourself. Remember this. How you treat others is how you treat yourself, and to be quite honest- I have no interest in debating with you. So feel free to not respond. (#redpill)

[–]bunnyinbeastmode-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Those are not the only two reasons women apply makeup- what if they just like makeup? Why does there need to be some weird obscure reason as to why someone does something? Comparing wearing makeup to painting a house is like comparing apples to oranges. Infinite more work and expenses go to painting a house; makeup can be applied in an hour and removed in ten minutes. Its the exact same with being artistic- if you’ve ever done art you know that drawing on a paper or painting is completely different than applying makeup- and if you haven’t done art well let me tell you: it’s completely different. It’s all personal preference- it sounds absolutely ridiculous to assume that ALL women who wear makeup wear it for one of the two reasons you listed above. You are not being truly supportive of other women, because support means being happy for someone, because you see them happy doing what they are doing. Makeup sparks different feelings than going bare faced and vice versa. What those feelings are? It’s subjective! It’s impossible to tell- everyone is different. If you think that your face is your identity then maybe you need to take a hard long look at your ideas because a persons identity is FAAAAAAR more than just their face 😂. You should just be happy for other women instead of assuming weird things. Seems to me like it comes from internalized issues.

[–]CountTheBees0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

what if they just like makeup?

Yeah, but why do you like makeup? You didn't answer.

You are not being truly supportive of other women

Wait, why should I be supportive of other women if other women are doing something that has bad motives, and makes them miserable? Modern women are miserable. I think wearing makeup and presenting a false self has a lot to do with that.

Yes I have done art. The only reason makeup is different, is because as I said, it's self denial. It has the ability to "transform" you which painting on canvas can't. It's like creating an avatar of yourself to change how people see you. Like it or not, your face is your identity to the outside world. It's at best, self-denial, and at worst, self mutilation.

Nowhere in your reply did you actually rebut my main points, which are, 1) women who wear makeup do so because they feel ugly without it 2) women who wear makeup are trying to erase something about themselves

makeup can be applied in an hour and removed in ten minutes

And now we know you take an hour (!) to apply your makeup. Holy moly. Yeah. So, uh, you're getting really defensive over this because you're exactly who I'm talking about.

Let's do a little experiment, shall we? Notice the feelings that you feel when you go to put on your face. Just notice what they are before and after. Do you only put makeup on when you feel stressed or bored? Why not read a book instead? Do you put it on for certain people? Are there some events that you can't imagine not doing a full face for? Why not? You don't need to reply to me, just ask yourself these questions when you do it.

And e.g., if you wear makeup every day, can you try not wearing it for a week. If you wear makeup on the weekends, can you try not wearing it for three weeks. How does it feel?

[–]JadedByEntropy10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Just a point: the patriarchal standard is men fighting against makeup, requesting we use less or make it natural if at all.

We do it for women to not judge us as harshly, increase our social standing/comparison among those women, and for insecurities. The difference it makes to men is negligible unless you are a catfish level of makeup. They don't care. We care. Women are the drivers of fashion, and men are not.

[–]Littleyummy9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most men don’t realize that often times, what they think is “natural” is a very skillfully applied makeup look. They think that a lot of makeup is just when someone is kind of bad at doing makeup. A lot of the time. Not always of course.

[–]carrothairs[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree that women are the drivers of fashion, but i don't want to neglect the fact that when men say "wear less makeup" they are talking about full blown glam they can't visibly see. Women do judge just as harshly if not more, but why do they do that?

[–]JadedByEntropy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do women judge? Thats the big question that would solve world peace. Competition for a short answer. Insecurities and trying to measure up. Our value isn't in success or tangible work-hard-earn-money kinds of value, but it's all perception so even if we aren't valuable...if we lie with makeup and scheme enough we can change the perception that maybe we aren't the worst and raise our value. If We're really desperate, women tear eachother down.

Under that kind of pressure, women dress up so other women can't tear them apart. And if they are still low value they can blame their makeup skill or lack of funding on why they are.

[–]carrothairs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ohhh that makes sense. Thanks for your insight

[–]AoLuna7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The beauty standard isn't same for everywhere and it doesn't shape on just the society, it shapes upon the already existing general features of that race. American make-up looks absolutely terrible on me for example, because they just dont go along with my features. Make-up is to show off your good features, when blemishes are covered a smooth skin appears so more attention can ne caught by eyes for example. I am happy with my barefaced look as well and I do go out barefaced, but I generally go out with make up.

I see you ask people why they think they look prettier with makeup. Just let go of the attractiveness concept for a second, there are many researches on beauty and what we consider beautiful, like symmetry being very important. So I don't think this concept can be reduced to an attractiveness scale.

QOVES Studio on youtube does videos on this subject especially, covering many stuff, including why blemishes are looked very bad upon and unconventional beauty. If interested in the concept of beauty (of humans generally) and want to hear something other than "it shows fertility" I'd suggest it.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'll definitely to check out that YouTube video. I wonder tho, would we care about a little asymmetry if a facade of normalized symmetry created by using makeup didn't exist?

[–]AoLuna0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Not much from my personal experience, since I didn't realise many of my friend's face asymmetry without looking at a picture of them simply facing the camera. But it affects unconsciously. In the case of make up fixing asymmetries, it only does to an extent. If you have a small asymmetry on your nose or eyes, it'll fix it but not if big. Hair is used to fix that, like if the left side of your face is a bit lower than the right side you can fix it with slightly right parted hair. I still don't think make up is generally used to get people's face perfectly symmetric, it's for accenting features that are pretty.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yea same here. I've rarely ever noticed my friends have assymetric faces but then I'll have a friend like tell me one of her nostrils are bigger than the other and I'm like ok? Bahaha like as if that is gonna be noticeable and I'd be like "yea I totally saw that!". Most makeup is for accentuating pretty features, but my issue is with makeup that covers or changes those features (ie contour, lashes, etc.)

[–]AoLuna1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Contour can be used to accentuate your cheekbones if already existent, for me it doesn't because my cheeks are a bit chubby lol, just looks stupid on me. So even contour not limited to cheekbones is giving more shadow to already existent features to bring them out more. Lashes can work for everyone though, eyes are really the whole point and lashes put a nice contrast there, they have a wide variety of options to choose from too.

The whole face changing make up with silicone (i guess) and stuff seems really extreme to me tbh, like a mask. That's just not working around your own unique beauty and trying to look like someone else. But everyday make up isn't like that... At least I have never seen that... yet.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can see what you mean. A lot of makeup is just meant to enhance features that are already there, I personally feel like makeup still is more a quick cover up and fix, cause at the end of the day, makeup is still a foreign object to the body and it is not what actually is already there. Yea silicone is a whole other ballpark. I can see it being used for trauma caused or genetic disabilities or deformities, but for the average person? Quite unfortunate

[–]denver_coder993 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This topic is a true classic. Ladies, every single time it comes up, anywhere, you guys famously and epicly hamster the living crap out of it!

I would like to offer a way to think about this that I reckon frames fashion and makeup choices in a simple and honest way.

Everyone dresses for at least 1 of 3 reasons; to "attract", to "compete" or to "belong".

They are not mutually exclusive and are often combined as.a result, e.g. power-dressing for the corporate world often combines all 3, with the understanding that "attract" or "compete" have to be subordinate to "belong" - the standards of the corporate office uniform.

The same is true of makeup.

And because there is zero point to looking fabulous in the middle of the desert with no-one around, the bedrock for all this has to be other people. Our social world.

Perhaps thinking about it in this way could make it easier to shine some light on this subject when trying to understand your motives?

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Completely agree. Makeup and dressing have different roles, so I was focusing my attention on the makeup that is used to attract and belong, which are two factors that everyone competes on, and how absurd its gotten, and how certain desirable traits are so normalized with makeup usage which makes not having them even more glaringly obvious.

[–]LocalReligionMajor1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I never put in the time or money to learn how to do makeup, and didn't wear makeup even when I had pretty bad acne in my teens. I think if you didn't wear makeup, you would probably get used to how you look and feel without it. I suspect you are also overstating men and women's aversion to women's bare faces. I agree that social media/advertisements are pushing unreasonable beauty standards, and it is a good idea to limit your media consumption for the sake of your mental health.

That being said, I do feel extra beautiful with makeup, and wear it occasionally for formal events, my engagement photoshoot, and will wear makeup for my wedding. I just don't like the feeling of makeup on my face, and quality products are expensive. I prefer to focus on my skincare, hair, nails, and dressing femininely. These make me feel feminine, beautiful, and confident. I am somebody who sometimes gets dressed up even if I'm not doing anything, and I can understand other women feeling the same way about makeup.

I don't think there's a simple divide between "what I do for myself" and "what I do for others." I definitely enjoy being perceived a certain way. I think because we're social creatures, that's natural and not something to be ashamed of. That's how you close the gap between "I wear makeup for myself" and the fact that most people dress up more for social events. It's not a problem that people want to present the best version of themselves to others. What is a problem is when the best version of yourself is never enough. (Hence my earlier comments about reducing your consumption of social media).

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I actually would argue i started wearing makeup a little later than a lot of the girls that went to my schools did, as many of them were wearing makeup in middle school, while I mostly started in 10th grade. Although you do have a valid critique of what I said, its not like men and women always find a natural woman's face disgusting or unattractive, but I do think there is a stigma. I guess I'm just scared of how as you said,

What is a problem is when the best version of yourself is never enough.

I am trying to decrease my social media consumption but it is so difficult when I've had it since some of my most vulnerable childhood years, but I will work towards separating myself from it more. Great insight :)

[–]LocalReligionMajor1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I do think there is a stigma

I did have a friend from college who went to high school in Mississippi, and she said all the girls got up at 4am to curl their hair and put on fake eyelashes. She said if you didn't do that, then people would talk. She was shocked by how much less effort women at my college were expected to put in. So, I guess it might be a regional thing, that's just not present in my part of the midwest. (Or I'm totally oblivious to it XD)

[–]carrothairs[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol I'm definitely oblivious to some societal standards too sometimes! I have friends who tend to talk to multiple guys at a time or whatever and there seems to be SO MANY weird tactics and mind games that they play with these guys??? Like there's a lot of like silent rules on snapchat? I also had no idea who half the popular kids in my highschool were until I graduated and people would ask me "oh you went to that school? Do you know so and so" and I'd have no clue that most people knew about them because I wasn't focused on them bahaha

[–]KayyeXx1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally I’ve been doing my makeup every day during lockdown even tho there’s no one about. It might be body dysmorphia that makes me feel the need to not have any facial imperfections whilst at home but I’m sure plenty of other women also just do it for fun. I also enjoy just experimenting with different hair and makeup looks, that may be the artist in me haha. It’s the same reason I still spray fragrance every day during lockdown, I just enjoy it and it lifts my mood. Interesting point though.

[–]IcarusKiki1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree to an extent. Sometimes I do it just to “feel complete” but that might just be a conscious manifestation of wanting to look better for others.

[–]LadyHelvetica1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think when most women say they wear makeup for themselves, they mean they wear it to make themselves look presentable as opposed to gain sexual attention from men.

Do I wear makeup to look pretty for my SO? Absolutely. But I definitely did put any on this morning hoping to gain the attention or affection of those particular men that have the “well why would you wear makeup unless you’re trying to impress ME?” attitude. I will always tell those kinds of people that I’m wearing make up for myself.

[–]ihopemewingworks1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I had skin issues for very long so I almost missed that teenage makeup phase and went makeup free very long. I also just recently have started doing it (but now it's covid so not really). But I actually feel like I'm just bad looking with and without makeup, I look very similar in my opinion. I get way more of a difference with clothes and hair.

I do think it's a horrible environment to live in for girls, Photoshop is so common, filters as you say but it's something that we women have chosen to do, which makes sense our primal value is being good looking so being the best looking that we can on social media makes a lot of sense. But I think it dosent make us happy, the beauty standard is very stressful but it's impossible to change. Like my bf have said to me before it's a bit women's fault, if every woman just decided not to wear makeup that would be perfectly beautiful, it's becasue we've shown men how "Flawless" or better we can look. It's actually good for women in a way because a 5 can become a 7, men can't quite do that (not that it matters as much so they sort of can with their masculinty and all that) but it's actually very beneficial for girls who aren't a natural 9.

Also the reason why blemishes and wrinkles and all this dosent matter on men is mainly because Flawless youthful perfect skin is very feminine, women want men who look masculine so not a perfect complexion looks a bit more masculine. I find a guy who is very idk flawless (because he loves skincare or something) a bit off putting, it looks too feminine. I do think it's a bit unfair but I think it's very natural, kind of like women liking men even up to 50 (physically) and men don't really or not as much. But I also think it's because men know that their facial beauty don't matter as much so they don't use filters and stuff, they focus on money, status and other things that they know matter to attract a girl. Also a filter on a guy would look so feminine and just a bit boyish, just nature.

But I think you're right that we do it for others mostly, I think we like being pretty for ourselves too (sort of) but not too the degree where we will sit in makeup by ourselves, but we might really like pampering ourselves, being clean, having nice soft hair etc.

And to comment on your last part, I feel like I wouldn't fit the mold with makeup so I don't feel that much prettier with makeup, I feel bad with and without. I know other people find me more pretty so I still might do makeup because of that, but I always feel bad looking anyways so my confidence isn't too affected. I don't look at people so I can't actually see the response that makeup and no makeup have, I just know based on what the people close to me say.

[–]carrothairs[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You have deep insight. I agree! Fighting makeup is like fightint human nature i suppose, so I guess the most we can do is just learn to feel comfortable in our own skin regardless of the beauty standard.

[–]ihopemewingworks1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you! ❤️. Yes, it's so hard and it's almost a hit unfair (I feel so bad for the young girls nowdays, it must be a horrible for them). But I'd say one of the things that I try to do, is to try to make myself look as similar as possible to what I look like with makeup. So really work on skincare and general health to have beautiful skin. Tinting eyebrows and eyelashes (maybe even lash lift), use colored lip balms, self tan (only helpful if you're cacuausian maybe). Make your hair easy to style or have a quick styling routine. I'm planning to buy a dyson airwrap which is like a blow dryer and styling tool in one, it takes about half the time since you have two steps in one. You could also just sleep in braids or something to wake up to waves or any heat less hairstyle. Do your nails, have good hygiene. Only have nice clothes, even loungewear and pj's should be nice and not sloppy looking. Those things will make you feel better when not doing your makeup, or it has helped me. I always had as a goal to be presentable enough with just 5-10 min in the morning (minus breakfast ofc)

[–]Latter_Ad_68401 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do it for myself insomuch as doing it improves the way people treat me and see me. But without that improvement I would not do it. So it definitely is for other people too.

[–]Prairiehousewife1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I completely agree! So many women “do their makeup for themselves” (because they’re not technically going anywhere) but then do a selfie photo shoot in their bedroom for Instagram!

Cognitive dissonance.

I’ll do my hair for myself, but only kind of.

What I’m actually doing is practicing for when I’m going out and will re-create that style to impress/fit in with others.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why are you writing this for RPW? It seems more appropriate for a feminist sub.

[–]carrothairs[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't think it was a very feminist post tbh but my bad if its not the appropriate subreddit. I read the info, so I thought it didn't have to be about relationships exclusively

[–]tulipiscute3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is actually in line with radical feminist literature, only liberal feminism pushes this narrative. We are all impacted by the male gaze!

In my personal opinion it’s important to acknowledge the male gaze, but how you “appeal” to it is up to you. Not everyone’s life goal is to dismantle the patriarchy. And it is irrefutable to argue that appealing to it doesn’t benefit women in some ways, depending on how they want to spend their own life. No one should feel shame for wanting to be sexually attractive in a society that seems so much worth onto women in this way! It’s more about just accepting that fact and being aware of it.

[–]carrothairs[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I am all for accepting human nature! I don't mean to dismantle the patriarchy, but more so I wish I could manipulate it into what real faces are. I mean sexuality and beauty is reality, I just wish that what was deemed sexually attractive was more inline with what we are all born with, and more about health and wellness over things are literally unattainable naturally like contour or false eyelashes.

[–]tulipiscute0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m not saying you mean that either! I totally agree with you. Makeup and filters have gone so far that standards are unattainable now without them.

Here’s a great short video on how bimboificafion (extreme version of sexual organs, like boobs, butts, lips, doe eyes, etc) has become so prevelant to us that we hardly even notice it now!

The video isn’t perfect to describe what i’m saying but it talks about how we’ve become so desensitized to what we are seeing that we’re forgetting that originally body notifications were almost a joke, yet now it’s bleeding into almost a standard and the lines are getting crossed to that we don’t know what we’re looking at. And i don’t mean bimbo in the super exaggerated sense, this even applies to people with a few surgical augmentations and fillers + filters and facetune and how we so5 even know what we’re looking at (neither do men) and how we are supposed to really feel about it.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! I'll definitely check it out :)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, this "do it for myself" has always been the biggest cope in the world. It's usually used by progressive women who don't want to admit that they seek patriarchal approval.

[–]abacabbmk5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its not to look better to other men. Its to look better in the eyes of other women.

[–]bunnyinbeastmode1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it’s quite far fetched to say that men like “natural”. I actually think this is just as subjective as favorite color or something similar. I love putting makeup up on because it makes me feel sexier, without a doubt these ideas have been influenced by years of media brainwashing 😂 but I’m also an artist and it’s fun and therapeutic for me to sit down and feel the many types of makeup brushes, sponges, setting mist, on my face. That isn’t to say that I don’t feel beautiful without makeup. I most certainly do! :) but make up provides a different type of feeling, same with going bare faced. I don’t know guys, I genuinely believe women look good with and without makeup. I support anyone, and who cares! Do what makes you feel confident. When you feel true, genuine confidence (which comes from taking TRUE and GENUINE care of yourself) it will show! No matter if you have the most artistic makeup, or no makeup at all- a confident girl is a beautiful girl. (And honestly same for guys)

These are my two ¢ 🤪 be happy and love yourselves AND lift each other up girls!

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link


[–]carrothairs[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I definitely know it makes me more confident as well! I don't care whether I am serving the patriarchy or not, but more the impacts it has on confidence. I think the more you enjoy how you look with makeup on, the more it takes away from your love of your natural face, and turns into a necessity in your routine over an accessory where you feel bare or unfinished without doing it. It doesn't mean you hate your face or don't love, it just means that it isn't getting the appreciation that it should.

[–]hazbelthecat1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You are right and you have some really good points. C right mills the sociologist has written some really interesting pieces about the difficulty in separating out what we do for ourselves and what we do bcs of society. He basically makes the argument that it is almost impossible to separate the two. Since we are so deeply moulded by our society we do genuinely gain pleasure from the things which society has conditioned us to gain pleasure from.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats what I feel as well. Its been a cause of conflict and frustration that I have learnt to accept, that most things i do is serving a purpose in conformity to society. Ill have to check out C right Mills :)

[–]maevenbelle1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women have been applying makeup in some form or fashion since ancient Egyptian times.

I 100% wear make up for myself. I put it on every single day, without fail. I genuinely FEEL better and more myself. I don't wear heavy make up, it takes about 10 minutes to apply and there's really not that much difference if I'm putting it on to make breakfast or going out for dinner (maybe a smokier or more dramatic eye for the latter).

I don't feel like its some patriarchal beauty standard. Makeup just enhances what you've already got to work with.

(That being said, I think filters and other technological enhancements are not really relevant here, that's not "real" and you don't actually look like that with the naked eye.... so yes, I agree that it contributes to an unhealthy standard of beauty that's literally unattainable.)

Makeup, in my opinion, is no different than clothing and jewelry and other hygiene. It is a choice we make as people how we take care of and adorn our bodies in certain situations. If you choose to take a shower, style your hair and put on something other than a ratty, baggy, t-shirt and sweats, then you are choosing to present yourself in a certain way.

Just like the right clothing can make you feel better when, for example, you're going to a job interview, putting on a little make up can make you feel better about tackling the to-do list for the day.

[–]carrothairs[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is a really interesting way of putting it. I definitely see what you mean about it kinda just being like clothing! That makes me feel a lot better about it :)

Also about it being from the ancient and automatically meaning its not effected by patriarchy, I don't agree because makeup has had a different role throughout history. And also, there is makeup that enhances what you already have to work with, but there is also makeup that changes. Contour for instance changes the way our faces look in almost an illusion. There's also false lashes which are also completely separate from the body.

[–]tulipiscute1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I totally understand what you’re saying, because I used to feel this way too, but then it dawned on me; why do i feel “prettier” with makeup on? It’s because I look better! Aka am more attractive, and am more appealing to men. Because the patriarchy places so much value on our looks, we literally feel better, when we look good. This is coming from someone who also wears makeup at home. I posted another comment but so much of our own self perception is impacted by the male gaze because it’s been how we’ve taught to view ourselves our whole life. We are better when we are prettier, even if ourselves on the inside doesn’t change.

It’s not bad to want to wear makeup inside at all by the way! That isn’t what i’m saying, but it’s rather just being aware of how our self perception is changed even when men aren’t around because of how ingrained we’ve been to view ourselves through the lense of men. The whole situation is nuanced (for example, I wear glitter eyeshadow a lot, but that isn’t for men! but my mascara, concealer, blush placement to look more youthful, etc is) but it’s interesting to think about!

[–]maevenbelle-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay but what about the notion of reaping what you sow? When I go for a run, my body pumps out endorphins. It's the body's way of rewarding you for doing something that is good for you. I'm putting energy into an activity that has a benefit to my body - it helps my posture, it helps my blood pressure, it keeps down weight. There's a 100% natural biological response (reward) to me doing something that could also be perceived as being done to "look better" and "be more appealing" to men. We cannot attribute that to the patriarchy. That's your body telling you to take care of it and by engaging in this practice, we are engaging in taking care of ourselves.

I guess I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that the only reason that I like to take care of myself is because of a "man." I take care of myself because this is the only body that I've been gifted with and I want to make sure it is in good running order. Why do we wash our cars? Why do we clean the sink? Why do we decorate our houses? Why do we plant flowers in our garden? Why do dress up our kids in cute clothes? Seems like its all motivated by a natural desire to improve one's self and surroundings.

[–]tulipiscute2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

your describing a lot of things that improve your health. makeup doesn’t improve your health. i’m talking about makeup and attractiveness, you’re jumping to broad generalizations.

never once did i say the majority of things we do in our day to day life are “for men”. most things aren’t. wearing makeup in your home when there’s no men around either isn’t necessarily “for men” either, but the internal motivation to put on makeup is a product of the male gaze and how it influences us to perceive ourselves. that’s the point i’m making

[–]hepazepie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you!

[–]stayPositive8901 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You don't have to follow the crowd. Do what ever suits you. I don't wear makeup at all and I never will -- I just make sure to take good care of my skin. Eating healthy, washing my face twice a day, drinking enough water, exfoliating regularly, getting enough sleep, etc. I love love love my natural look. I don't care about being surrounded by people who do, and I respect their decision to wear makeup. It's just not for me.

[–]carrothairs[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I definitely want to embrace what I have naturally more and look my best through self-care. Easier said than done but I will work towards it :)

[–]stayPositive8900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]LocalReligionMajor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I wear makeup maybe once a year, and I get by just fine!

[–]deerprudehence0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I think of it like this. I don't wear makeup normally because I'm lazy and don't go out that much, but when I am going out on a date or for dinner, I wear some. I wear it and try to look good because that's how I want to present myself to others--a put together, well-groomed young woman. The makeup and flattering hairstyle bring out my best features, thus making me look prettier than normal. It takes effort to wear makeup and style my hair, thus showing others that I do put effort into my image. I am doing it for myself, yes, but I am technically also doing it for others. I want them to look at me a certain way, and I want to give off a good impression. I don't see what is wrong with this. It isn't "oppressive" because even women can get a good or bad impression of me based on how I present myself.

[–]unusalwasabi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

there's nothing wrong with trying to impress people with makeup because we are all superficial and care about looks whether we admit it or not

[–]MSA9660 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Using makeup is the same as wearing good clothes that differ from home clothes, makeup is just a habit

[–]aussiedollface20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s rare that I don’t put a little bit of makeup on, even if I’m home alone. I make much more effort for my husband or if we are going out etc xo

[–]WordsNotToLiveBy0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a misconception that gets uttered way too often. This has nothing to do with men and need to remove all this talk of Patriarchy. The confusion in that regards is that it may be encouraged in a "professional" setting to "look your best," but for the average and majority of men, they don't care much about it at all. If you asked them, they'll say they prefer no makeup. And yes, that also means when you look "tired" or "sick" or whatever. Men value being genuine a lot more, but they won't argue if you need to use it to feel better when going out.

It's true, it's mostly a competitive tool between women, and has very little to do with men. Just as posting selfies online or buying handbags, designer shoes, 'cute' dresses, etc. The reason why men are not the main reason for this is because men are more lenient in this regard. They'll accept a blind date/wife/gf/etc wearing just about anything, just as long as it is sensible for the environment/situation. The wanting to "look better" is all about what other women will say about them.

[–]carrothairs[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can see that for sure. I definitely don't think men create it necessarily and it is driven by women, but I do think that it does have an influence. I mean men compete for things that have nothing to do with women, but it gives them the confidence to compete for women which is how I feel about makeup.

[–]WordsNotToLiveBy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's an accurate way of looking at it. Ultimately it's all connected in some fashion, but I just wanted to reiterate that tired ol' complaint is often misconstrued. It's much more complex than that, and you punctuated it succinctly.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link


[–]carrothairs[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So I suppose your point is that the women who care about their appearance more through a little makeup, tend to have more feminine attitudes, and that the reflected attitude that goes hand in hand with makeup itself is what makes them so attractive? I love that idea and I haven't thought of it like that before. Also that sounds so nice tho having that less stressed culture. I think a good balance between the extremes of city life and something like our ski town would be ideal :)

[–]skierguy890 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So I suppose your point is that the women who care about their appearance more through a little makeup, tend to have more feminine attitudes, and that the reflected attitude that goes hand in hand with makeup itself is what makes them so attractive?

You rephrased the thrust of my argument perfectly.

And I will expand on it more generally. Here in the ski town we see less difference between men and women. So in a sense it's more "equal", but it means there is less variation to choose from. As mentioned there are pros and cons depending on your personality and views. For me, I prefer to see more difference. I think that the difference between humans is what makes us beautiful. So, generally speaking, the further away a woman is from a man the more attractive I find them.

You can even think of it in terms of diversity. There is only white people around this town. People are very homogeneous both in culture and style. I am not commenting on whether it is good or bad, just stating what is. In the city you see people of all colours, nationalities, and styles. You never know who you might become attracted to or have attracted to you whether it is a white PHD student with a lowkey boob job, a tiny asian gamer chick, or a latina queen with a spanish accent that completely melts you. Same goes for attitudes, you can find highly driven, conservative career people and totally careless party people and everything in between. Again pros and cons to both but in terms of sexual/mateseeking marketplace the city is a much more stimulating environment to be in.

[–]carrothairs[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I guess for a homogenous town like ski town, makeup or style is what adds that diversity. For city life where diversity already exists in facial features and clothing styles, I think makeup should be scaled down a bit, because it's reaching absurd levels that almost look cartoonish but are now considered the "norm" and what's natural, so its actually doing the opposite of what you prefer. Everyone now has the same face and look in the city no matter what race or background for the most part because we all desire that ideal beauty which is completely eliminating unique beauty that sets each woman apart from the other. So while in ski town, all women and men kinda blend together because of LACK of femininity, here it is a hyper saturation of femininity that is almost shallow and uniform.

[–]skierguy890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

because it's reaching absurd levels that almost look cartoonish but are now considered the "norm" and what's natural, so its actually doing the opposite of what you prefer.

completely agreed, I am prepared to blame social media (especially IG) for a lot of this. On a related point I notice there is far less concern with social media in the ski town, this is undeniably amazing.

[–]ZBawaKaul0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Something i have felt for a long time but struggled to put into words.

[–][deleted]  (9 children) | Copy Link


[–]carrothairs[S] 13 points14 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You missed some of my points, why do you consider yourself pretty when you have makeup on at home? What about the makeup makes you feel pretty and doesn't that imply that you don't feel as pretty otherwise? Is it because with makeup you look more similar to the beauty standard? My point is that makeup as a concept is created by others for others, and subconsciously we feel confident knowing we look good based off those societal standards without even realizing it. I also put makeup on at home sometimes when I'm not going to see anyone. I'm not against people putting makeup on, I'm just sad that makeup exists to begin with. Also ok boomer doesn't even make sense in this context considering makeup has been around from the beginning of time lol.

[–]ninjarawwr-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

the way i know you’re way out of touch is the fact that we look pretty regardless 😂

[–]carrothairs[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Bahaha you could've atleast retaliated my points. I'm 18 and I'm not bad looking at all, actually I'd say I'm attractive, but it doesn't mean that I don't have things I cover or enhance. Using "😂" and still saying ok boomer, and then tryna say I'm outta touch lmaoo. I've literally had a lot of my childhood and all of teenage years swallowed by social media and constant changing makeup trends. I used to also say that i did makeup for myself, so just because I've decided to see things for the consequences they've created and the increased insecurity that seems to effect pretty much most girls my age, doesn't mean I'm out of touch, it just means I have a different opinion.

[–]ninjarawwr0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

i didn’t call you boomer. i said you’re out of touch bc your reasoning behind why we would wear makeup is to “look more like the ideal beauty standard”. Im black, i’ll never be that. but i look amazing with and without makeup. the problem isn’t so much the makeup but the actual unrealistic expectations set forth, sometimes can be makeup related, sometimes not.

[–]carrothairs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry I meant the original commenter had called me boomer. That was my bad.

Its not about whether we look good natural or with makeup to me, but whether makeup is making what is considered "natural" and the norm something fake and unrealistic that pressures us to keep putting makeup to upkeep that standard.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link


[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Be polite or be quiet. Insults are an intellectually lazy way to argue.

[–]impressablenomad38-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She insulted me aswell 🙏

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Arguing with me is not going to get your anywhere good. I was explaining why your comments were removed.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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