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What the f*ck has happened to men these days?

June 23, 2021

Do any other women feel this way? Like every other man you meet (even the ones who seem to be high value) have some sort of issue (anger, addiction, porn) or engaging in even minor low value activities like following Instagram strippers etc.

I’m in my mid-20’s so I don’t know if this was always the case and men have always been like this but I’m incredibly frustrated that every guy I have feelings for, I somehow later find out he has one or more of these issues going on and it’s a dealbreaker for me. Like why should I settle for someone with no integrity?

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Post Information
Title What the f*ck has happened to men these days?
Author NoFondant2503
Upvotes 144
Comments 246
Date June 23, 2021 8:08 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link
Original Link

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

This has turned into a bitch fest about men. RPW should be about understanding what makes each gender tick and how to have a good relationship. I'm locking this post because I do not think it's contributing to the conversation in a positive way.

[–]Feeliner 93 points94 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

All the good men are with the good women.

[–]bjjmonkey 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]orangerose18 126 points127 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Lack of strong male role models and “average guy getting hot girl” media. Read JRR Tolkien for good male role models. They definitely existed, fictional characters don’t exist in a vacuum.

It is not too high of a standard to expect a man with similar values and behaviors to you. And yeah, there are a disappointingly high amount of men around me with the issues you’ve described, so while you should always be growing and improving, you’re allowed to hold men to the same standards you set for yourself.

I don’t use Instagram, Snapchat, or fb except to check out friends’ posts once in a blue moon. My love interests should therefore also not be social media addicted. I am on dating apps, but with the intention to find a LTR, and I don’t waste men’s time and tell them straight up I’m not interested should a date not go well. Similarly, a man I want to date should not be a man whore. I am getting therapy for my issues. Similarly, a man should be self aware and actively work on himself. I work out every day. Similarly, a man should also prioritize fitness. I have a clean and organized house. Similarly, a man should keep his house clean and tidy.

Hold yourself to the standards you set for a man, and they should be reasonable. But if your anxiety and depression is running amok, you regularly read romance novels instead of focusing on real life, and you seek validation through social media and dating apps, then yeah work on yourself first.

[–]etherael 28 points29 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

People, both men and women, pursue what they want. And this comment is an excellent example of both that fundamental truth as well as projection that happens in women resulting in the aforementioned mismatch. You model your behaviour based around what you are seeking under the assumption that the same will apply in reverse, when that largely is not the case.

I don’t use Instagram, Snapchat, or fb except

Male equivalent to social media is porn, and men that use it would often describe that use in the same way if they were not shamed for raising the subject at all. The assumption that they're all rabid porn addicts and loudly and proudly broadcast this all the time is not well matched with reality.

I am on dating apps

Men that are easily successful with dating apps use them for short term frivolity, not seeking LTRs, men that aren't successful with them you largely wouldn't notice anyway.

a man I want to date should not be a man whore.

"Should" won't actually matter though, because the economics of the supermajority of women heavily optimising their choices and targeting for a particular kind of man provides that kind of man with a kid in a candy store environment with largely predictable results.

I am getting therapy for my issues. Similarly, a man should be self aware and actively work on himself.

That you have issues at all even if you're addressing them will work against you just as you'd hold it against anyone you were evaluating, "working on them" doesn't change the fact that they're there. Self improvement amongst men is frequently viewed by broader society as "toxic" and thus the "so cool I'm constantly apathetic about everything" persona rises and has the concurrent effect on the observed distribution of men who are actually even interested in that to begin with.

And why should they work on themselves when there's no payoff for it? You work on yourself because you perceive a payoff in doing so. For a great deal of men that's just unrealistic, so instead they follow low effort high payoff paths in terms of drive satisfaction vs time and effort investment, like porn and videogames, both providing artificial but largely effective payoffs for their natural drives, like women and social media attention.

I work out every day. Similarly, a man should also prioritize fitness.

The ones that do aren't going to change from that perspective based on your adherence to a workout schedule, the ones that don't same story.

I have a clean and organized house. Similarly, a man should keep his house clean and tidy.

The standards for "clean and organized" between men and women differ enormously, some men will just outsource this entirely to a maid since it's actually not that expensive and they can then spend time on that menial task on something with a higher payoff, but in the case of men who do this themselves, they just don't care as much or pay as much attention to it as women typically do and there are multiple studies that bear this out, a pernicious aftereffect of which in an "equal" relationship women perceive themselves as bearing an outsized portion of the load on this task because their standards for the task being complete are so divorced from men's, while men think "here is the necessary standard, here is the labour required to reach that standard, I've done about half, all good."

TLDR; you don't get what you want by trying to become it. The economically rational paths are that either you get what you want by figuring out what what you want wants and becoming that, or deciding that the price in order to get what you want actually isn't worth it and opting out. This applies to both men and women. Most people are blissfully unaware of that fact and do not follow the appropriate path at all, and also many when noticing that an increasing share of people both men and women are following the "opt out" branch of that path get upset about it.

[–]vivalachavez 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I recommend looking into the effects of porn particularly on neurotransmitters and mood and I think we would both agree that’s not a benefit

[–]etherael -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Consuming food and oxygen both have negative effects too, and yet humans are driven to do so and without those appetites being sated the consequences are invariably catastrophic to the human in question. Satiety of sexual urges is definitely more tolerable and variable in the effects of long term restraint, but the fact remains it's just another appetite and it can be addressed with things other than tolerating the demands of another person if the individual in question deems those demands to be too high for the return, or indeed there are ways to optimise a lifestyle in order that the demands for another person change significantly.

Is that a bad trade off? Possibly, but that really comes down to the individual in question, plenty of people are clearly choosing the 'not worth it' boxes on both sides of the gender divide or engaging in elaborate strategies in order to game the system to what they perceive as their benefit, and no matter what you or I think about it, that's just a fact of life.

We can get angry about it, we can complain about it, or we can try to understand what's actually happening in order to live the best quality of lives for ourselves that we're able to. I think the third choice is unquestionably the correct one, although I absolutely understand and see a constant ocean of the other two options in the rest of the species.

[–]orangerose18 15 points16 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

My point is not that by doing these things I will attract someone similar, but that it is a rational litmus test for my standards. The key here is realistic. If I’m expecting a 6/6/6 guy, and I’m overweight and unmotivated, that’s unrealistic. But if I want an attractive guy over 5’7 with a stable career who is around my age and shares my (relatively liberal) views, I myself should have a stable career and my shit together. This comment assumes every man is looking for a SAHM or something entirely different from who they are. The reality is, for dating on the coasts, men are attracted to competent women. Your comment may apply for more red areas of the US.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

This^ also to look attractive, you need to afford a gym membership, good makeup, good food, a stress free lifestyle. How are you supposed to do that making $20k/year? I make 6 figures because I HAVE TO.

[–]special_k_5 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

So does he have to make more than you? Because if so and combined with all the other things, the pool of men that do so is not high. I’d say that’s less than 5% of men. Very small pool to choose from, therefore overwhelming you’ll run into what you consider “losers”. I’m not saying porn is great either btw, I have cut it out of my life, just saying given the criteria, it may be a harder find.

[–]orangerose18 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think what you’re missing is that OP and I would really much rather be single than find someone who doesn’t match our criteria. Sure, life is better with a man, but it’s livable and enjoyable without one too. My social circle is made exclusively of men who earn approximately my salary or higher. It would legitimately be difficult to find someone with a similar cultural background and life credo who earns significantly less.

I don’t want to make decisions out of desperation or fear of being alone. That’s exactly how you get into bad situations.

[–]special_k_5 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Not missing it, I get it. You don’t want sub-par. Problem is, it’s a small pool. Anecdotally you may be around high earners, but it’s not standard. What if OP found her dream man but he made 40-80k? He becomes undateable, which is quite sad. Making decisions out of fear is never good, esp if a life long one. But I posit you this, I feel similar. That the pool of women I truly want is small. At this rate marriages rates will continue to decline. And you’ll have a bunch of 30-40yr olds who could have had a solid life, with a solid partner (6.5-9/10) but forgo that, in order to find the perfect 10. There is no such thing as perfect, it’s an illusion you’ll chase forever.

Solution: both sexes should settle ever so slightly. Find out your 1-3 deal breakers and go from there. We both need to stop having a “perfect” person checklist. It’s NOT healthy or even viable in reality. If we all got this person, how are they perfect then?

Good days only exist because bad ones do. If all days were good, none would be good. Ya feel?

I get your point orange, I do, and it’s honestly just saddening that we are here. I wish you both honestly the best of luck and nothing else.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link


[–]BilboBagginhole 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just have to ask a follow up to this. You meet a lot of men in the city who make 6 figures, don't enjoy porn, don't imbibe alcohol repeatedly, and are in shape?

[–]special_k_5 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh that’s very true. I plan on moving to a major city soon, this is one of my reasons. Pool is much larger and yes you should be able to find what you are after. For sure! Great point. But also kinda sad we gotta resort to that. On the other hand, at least some unicorns will/do exist! Ahaha

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep. Ideally way more than me so I can raise my kids in peace

[–]special_k_5 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I made an original comment now. I thought so. In that comment I say now you are looking at 3% of men given everything you want. GL. It is what it is (and I fucking hate that saying).

Note: also a professional statistical person. And yes it’s a guess, but a damn good one. Given that only 10% of men will out earn you. Combine that with other factors you want and yes your pool will be very very small. Many other posters have stated tons of reasons why the dating market is messed up, I suggest you heed those more carefully. Again all the best of luck, you will need it :)

[–]etherael 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If I’m expecting a 6/6/6 guy, and I’m overweight and unmotivated, that’s unrealistic. But if I want an attractive guy over 5’7 with a stable career who is around my age and shares my (relatively liberal) views, I myself should have a stable career and my shit together.

Once again I'd put it to you that you're not understanding the way the target market actually perceives your value. And it has nothing to do with SAHM etc. Men are biologically hardwired to find certain things attractive, and your having a stable career and many interpretations of 'your shit together' rank enormously lower than those things by comparison.

That said, those things aren't bad things to have or be either, and at the end of the day maybe you decide that priority number one in your life should not be optimising your nature for your mating strategy. That position is entirely your choice to make and totally sensible if you're not fooling yourself about where it leads or the relative appeal to your target market in question, but if you feel the need to self deceive that it is actually the optimal strategy maybe that's an indication that you value what it is that you insist on seeing yourself as pursuing the optimal strategy in order to acquire and maintain more than you are comfortable admitting.

It's kinda funny that "just be yourself" actually turns out to be pretty good advice if you're not driven by external validation. The small print is that might end you up completely isolated and alone, but the nature of not being driven by external validation is the more that applies the less you care and consequently the happier you are.

And of course unfortunately vice versa.

Your comment may apply for more red areas of the US.

I'm not from the US and I've lived in dozens of countries around the world and I'm afraid the biologically rooted urges and broad perceptions of desirability are extremely fixed, it's not nearly as variable as the disney fairy tales tell us. The biggest variability is the degree to which the parties in question acknowledge the reality of the situation vs the degree to which the reality of the situation changes. Modern "legacy brand" western countries are very self-deceptive about the entire affair, and the more politically liberal they are, the more this applies.

[–]orangerose18 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Once again, I’m reiterating that I’m not doing these things to be attractive, I have other areas that I work on for that. It’s to prevent me from falling for someone below my level of competency. I am XYZ and I’m a normal woman, so if a man is less than XYZ it’s not that high of a standard to expect him to be XYZ. you can rail about biology all you want, but I’m going to do what I want, and that’s going to make me happier than being a simpering dainty girly girl.

[–]etherael 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

but I’m going to do what I want, and that’s going to make me happier than being a simpering dainty girly girl.

The fact you think I'm suggesting you should do otherwise, and more specifically that you should be "a simpering dainty girly girl" makes it clear to me you're not actually reading anything I've said so I'll leave it there beyond wishing you good luck.

[–]linkofinsanity19 81 points82 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

It's pretty much everyone, men and women. Our side of the fence doesn't look any better. At least in our cases, society (and women) punish the vast majority of men for being low value earlier on. Most women aren't relationship worthy either. You need to come to terms that you are dealing with a very small viable dating pool in modern times, and that the best you can do is be the chick a high value guy wants the most, then sift through til you get to one you want just as much.

[–]GokuDiedForOurSins 55 points56 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

I think that (at least as an American) it's compounded by the fact that men now are not making as much money as our fathers did. It's somewhat expected societally for a man to provide shelter, when the reality is that most couples have to split bills to make it work. The percentage of HV men is shrinking in large part because of the stagnant middle class economy, at least in my opinion.

[–]Psiphistikkated[🍰] 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

An unfortunate truth

[–]OG_walrus 42 points43 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The reason they aren't making the same amount is one, women have joined the workforce, so this means there is more supply compared to the demand. Second, the productivity has gone up and companies are making more money but the employees aren't getting paid enough.

Third. Now that women are having a decent income they aren't naturally going to settle for a man who is making less than them, so this means many men will now be lower than the average woman by default in terms of finance, would that man be a great partner? Maybe. But now the woman will have no attraction towards him because he is deemed lower.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this. Since men have the natural inkling to be competitive and rise to the top why don’t they surpass women and snag up all the high paying jobs?

[–]WordsNotToLiveBy 21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Many men no longer feel the incentive to do that anymore. For instance, when the pool of women are also shrinking with the obesity rates going up, Feminism taken hold in most universities, plus the overwhelming cons attached to marriage (including most divorces initiated by women) it's leaving men with the feeling that to live a content life no longer means clawing their way to a top level paying job, when a decent level will be more than enough for them to pay for their hobbies, get a big enough size place for themselves, and to take care of their basic needs.

It's also the fact that even average or below average women are getting plenty of options online to the point that they're treating dating like window shopping, so guys that many of the average/below average gals would have been perfectly happy with in the past, are no longer settling for them. Which is making those average guys disillusioned and deciding to do what I mentioned above.

This is not good for society at large, but it is the way things have been going for a few decades now.

[–]dyomaeth 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The answer is that they do. Purely statistically it's mostly men up there.

[–]si91si91 21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Affirmative action, Title IX anti discrimination, quotas, and "diversity" initiatives, among other things, that favor women. California, for example literally requires that companies hire women in their board of directors.

[–]HappilyMrs 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely agreed!

Traditional relationships are almost impossible when cost of living is so high that you both need to work. Money worries leads to conflict and resentment. It's very hard to make it work and doing without the things society say we need to have if you arent a high earner (which, let's honest, though we talk endlessly here about finding those 6 figure guys, the majority of people are not rich or ever going to be rich).

Where is the value in settling down and making a family if you both have to work your arses off constantly, the stress makes you miserable with each other, and your kids are always in daycare?

Modern life isn't conducive to men or women developing the traits that are ideal for a relationship with good polarity. We are drifting further from traditional dynamics with each crunch on incomes.

[–]BrainOil 14 points15 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

This right here. It's the money. I can't even consider having the life I want anymore with the cost of living spiraling out of control. I'd do anything to have what my parents did and the opportunities and then at the end after having all that have over a million saved for retirement. He was an electrician too!!! Not a CEO or some big corporate powerhouse. Just a run of the mill electrician.

[–]DesertRose1984 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Try going tiny to save financially and listen to author and speaker, “Dave Ramsey”. It is possible to have a million in retirement; especially when you start earlier.

[–]catcatcat000 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same but I'm listening to MMM rather than Dave Ramsey!

[–]HappilyMrs 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You need a surplus income to be able to save. Many are living paycheck to paycheck with no slack in the system.

[–]BrainOil 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Scam artist.

[–]DesertRose1984 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’m sorry, but who were you referring to when you said, “scam artist”?

[–]BrainOil 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Apologies, I believe Ramsey is a charlatan because his advice is obvious and unworkable in the real world. I work with multiple people who read his books and have read them myself. I'm not going to live like a pauper during the best years of my life though. I save and invest in my 401k and have a house, cars, a cabin and whatnot. I do okay. My friends ex is definitely making it work. But she's single with no kids and is 42 years old. She is hell-bent on this strategy to the detriment of everything else. She will eat food left in the garbage to save money. I'm not doing that.

[–]Holzmann 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The essence of his financial philosophy is get out of debt and stay out of it. It may be obvious, but it’s a message literally millions of people need to hear. I personally agree with it, regardless of how “cheap” money is to borrow nowadays.

[–]vivalachavez 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

His advice is unworkable TO YOU my friend, not in the real world.

[–]DrBoby 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I disagree because wealth is relative to the person judging. If you are poor an average man seems rich and if you are rich he seems poor..

Women getting equality in pay, means there are less men richer than you. Since men are less paid and you are more paid.

I think it's the only thing that matters. If everyone gets equally poorer, HV men stay the same.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems to be the case

[–]Letmetellyouabtlyfe -3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

At least in our cases, society (and women) punish the vast majority of men for being low value earlier on.

Society punishes anyone that is low value. Unfortunately women had to deal with low value from ppl in their closest niche. That's why they don't tolerate no sht.

[–]linkofinsanity19 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The double edge sword is that women can be low value and society will make sure she doesn't feel bad about it, at least until the wall makes it too obvious that they wasted their best years. Most women can at least get sex despite being low value. Low value men can't. You've never heard of a woman who's had it so bad sexually that she shot up a public place, not that those guys handled it right.

On one hand, women don't have it as bad in their 20s because people make sure their feelings are looked after more, kinda like a painkiller that doesn't treat the underlying issue. The underlying issue rears its ugly head when women can no longer compete sexually with their younger competition and the painkiller gets turned down, off, or it is simply no longer enough.

On the other hand, men aren't coddled as much, and therefore are more likely to feel like shit, but also more likely to realize there's a problem that needs addressed and can fix it if they do the work while too few people are willing to tell women the truth about their value, if they would even listen and do anything about it themselves.

[–]SpecificEntry 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You've never heard of a woman who's had it so bad sexually that she shot up a public place, not that those guys handled it right.

Are you crediting this lack of shooting up public places to women having easy access to sex?

Do you honestly think women would kill random people if they couldn't get laid, similar to entitled incels?

> On one hand, women don't have it as bad in their 20s because people make sure their feelings are looked after more

What does this even mean?

By 'people make sure their feelings are looked after more' do you mean men will pursue them more? How exactly do those men look after their feelings?

This is just a revenge fantasy cope.

Women will live it up in their youth and then settle down with a man 'of similar value.' They will very much have their cake and eat it too.

[–]Letmetellyouabtlyfe -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is so whiny tho. Oh u cant get x bc u dont want to level up n provide?
Give me an example of a low value woman getting sx ? Once they "hit the wall", nobody looks their way. are u really resenting women for having their prime in their 20s. Unless they prostitute themselves then maybe? but that's not the quality of life or type of men that women want for themselves. THat's a very short time man. Women are not as unaware of their value as u think. U sound childish af. Just bc u didnt get coddled doesnt mean that should be taken away from women.

[–]linkofinsanity19 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Did you even read it. I'm happy men aren't coddled. I wouldn't be where I am now if I had been. Most women don't know where their peak is because society tells them lies to sell them ideas and women tend to look for consensus when seeking answers. People trying so hard to not look "misogynistic" will tell sweet lies over hard truths, which only delays the vast majority of women from realizing their peak value in time, let alone doing anything to actually maximize it.

One example of this, 9/10 women who I've seen in gyms over the past 5 years are over the age of 27 but I still see plenty of young dudes in there, usually doing some dumb shit, but trying nonetheless. As for low value women getting sex, plenty of very overweight women not only getting sex, but pregnant where I'm from.

You seem like you're projecting your anger at women onto me and it's incorrectly placed. My anger phase ended a long time ago. I'm quite happy with my life and the women I've surrounded myself with, so I don't know where you're getting a "whiny" tone, but go ahead if it gets you through your day. I'm just some person on the internet.

[–]enzo_gm 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

While I agree a lot of men are degenerate you also have to realize an equal or greater amount of women are the same.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree.

[–]Lando_620 54 points55 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

First, we need to agree on terms, before we wander about the dating scene/history.

My operating definition of HVM: a man with a strong purposeful focus in life that draws the respectful admiration of women and even other men. In other words someone with high sexual market value & high commitment market value. (A say this because at its absolute core, that is what it boils down to. Morality, wealth, or whatever are just various factors/markers of that.)

Now you need to understand the biological wired mating strategies of both sexes and their intended goals.

Hypergamy is the strategy of women, the goal is quality ( to attain/keep the best possible mate ). Women win in life when they get commitment from a HVM/ a man they want to follow. Your brain is wired this way for your own safety and security because reproduction makes you vulnerable.

Polyamory is the strategy of men, the goal is quantity ( to spread their seed to every mate ). Men win in life when they get sex from women. Men are wired this way for the future of the species, we may need to spread reproduction to ensure a new generation.

Historically both parties would compromise their strategy to form a partnership. (Settle basically, which women & men seem to think is purely a negative term now.)

Thus, the issues of dating. Birth control removed the responsibility of sexual access...women are now trading their leverage in life for free. Most young women now only vet men for fun (sexual market value), meaning the men who win ( get sex, don't have to be fully HVM, they don't need high commitment value at all. ) By the time most women realize they have made a bad deal, and vet for commitment, their own SMV has dropped and with it their leverage. This means men don't have to compromise their dating strategy and thus in general they can write the terms of commitment instead of settling down. (When I say this I mean the top % of men.)

This is why I feel bad for women, feminism has made it harder for you to win in life, because even if you do everything right. The men you want (top 20ish %) have enough options to not have to agree to your terms (trade of commitment for sexual access) as other women are underselling your value.

The mass of porn, OF, IG, and the super sexual culture/media is two fold. It appeals to the strategies of men by allowing them more seed planting than any individual could ever achieve in person. So, while the bottom 80% of men are not ideally happy because it is hollow sexual access, it does keep them relatively complacent. The second factor is a disillusion for women to confuse sexual attention for commitment attention. They in general chase that sexual attention given by the highest value men they encounter but again those men are not being vetted for commitment any more. So these women trade sex, but men don't respect a freely traded asset which is what most of those women are doing. Thus, women throw away their value often chasing hopes of fairytales with the HSMV men perceiving those men as a HVM. Thus by vilifying settling and encouraging both genders to pursue our own strategies we never want to compromise to form a partnership.

The anger issues and other factors stim mostly from broken childhood, lack of fathers, and the constant growing resentment pushed upon men by a society that blames them for all the problems. That agenda is so strong you yourself push it. You didn't ask, hell maybe it didn't even occur to you, the simple idea that perhaps you were doing something wrong. Your post just immediately put 100% onus on men. Perhaps you are right in this case and you truly are not to blame for any part in the problem. Typically though both parties contribute so do you see how powerful the systems agenda is?

The system is destroying men & women's commitment value on purpose to destroy families. Families are strong & yield stronger offspring, they want us single, isolated and weak...easy for them to control. Perhaps, that is just my crazy conspiracy leaning thoughts, but that doesn't mean there are not truths in there, so hopefully those truths can help you.

Apologies for the long ranting nature.

[–]redditthrowaway1478 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Spot on summary. Just wanted to add:

"The System" works largely by way of leftist/feminist academics monopolizing the centers of education (universities, highschool/elementary schools) to ingrain feminist/socialist rhetoric in children from a young age, then activists promote awareness of percieved societal problems and advocate for feminist solutions, then feminist lawyers take those solutions and the public support behind them to dismantle elements of the legal system that represents their view of the patriarchy (capitalism/male dominance hierarchy), and restructure it with a more socialist framework. This is largely what contributed to single mothers getting custody of children by default, and that has now resulted in roughly 1/6 children being raised in single parent households today.

In Ted Kaczynski's book "Industrial society and it's future", technological improvements and the economic growth that comes with it necessitate the social engineering of individual humans. As tech increases, we lose more of our freedom and humanity for one another. The birth control pill radically changed the relationship between men and women, automated machinery made manual labor obsolete and pushed men further towards a crisis of masculinity, the internet has reduced the need for humans to physically interact near one another, and allowed for professions that women can work themselves and don't need men for, so men become a commodity rather than a necessity. We have solved nearly all our historic physical health concerns, but now we are exploding with mental health issues in no small part due to technological advancements

More security, but less freedom.

[–]notbarnes 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

These are some great insights. Thanks for this!

[–]BaobabOFFCL 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are absolutely spot on.

[–]blueberrypanda1 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

100% agree with you. Great analysis and best comment yet.

[–]special_k_5 -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not conspiratorial at all. They want the nuclear family non existent. Much easier to control weaker humans than strong ones for sure.

[–]Wiffleboy1 25 points26 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It is frustrating when people are not who they appear to be and disappointing when you lean something terrible about a person you have affection for. If your standards are reasonable then don't compromise but be ready to work a little harder to get what you want.

One concern I have is this quote.

"every guy I have feelings for, I somehow later find out he has one or more of these issues"

Perhaps a self assessment as to why you find men certain men attractive is needed. Not a self loathing exercise but a real evaluation. I don't know you so I can't really say for certain if this is needed.

Last thing I can recommend is to be upfront with your expectations. People with real integrity will respect that.

Hope this has been of some help.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for this comment. Yes, I 100% acknowledge that I have issues and I’m in therapy and doing self healing for that. What I listed are things that should be rare in people but it’s in an overflow these days. Like there are PhD highly intellectual high earning, emotionally aware men doing shit like this. It’s absolutely demoralizing.

[–]LateralThinker134 Stars 28 points29 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It isn't just men. Culture has really degenerated for both sexes. Just look at the rise of BP thinking in the culture for an explanation. Also., the sexual revolution did women few favors, despite what feminists would tell you.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Totally agree. Seems like people have just lost it.

[–]slintas 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being able to understand complex data structures and optimizing queries doesn't mean you are not an imbecile at everything else (A lot of personal experience). Obviously higher bar of entry but still not every apple is gonna be a golden one. Good luck though, my only suggestion would be to decide one a few core characteristics (max 2-3) that you can't negotiate on. The abstinence from social media and healthy routines are good suggestions best wishes

[–]JustaTcup 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

After having an extremely bad experience with a man recently I started realizing that it's VERY hard to find men (and not just men really, all people) who are well. It's more than a little alarming.

[–]krainex69 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its almost like perfect people dont exist and its impossible to find a flawless person

[–]hundunso 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This goes both ways, its not just women who complain about men in this type of way. A lot of men also complain that women these days have a lot of baggag and have no values etc.

It seems like both sexes & genders these days have issues with each other to be honest

[–]dyomaeth 12 points13 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I think part of the issue is that we men sometimes fall into the trap of trying to fix our issues of character using feminine approaches. By that I mean seeking comfort and talking to therapists. It's not a popular opinion but I believe that for most issues men have (low self-esteem, porn addiction, video games etc.), this is worthless. We men have our own way of dealing with our own issues and this rarely includes other people. It's an internal process that we have to go through, that we just know when we're ready for it. Of course, society enables and encourages men to be weak and feminine, so some men have too much safety, comfort and enablers, so they never truly become men, and remain weak grown up infants all their lives. It's sad and pathetic, but it's very common - I was like that, but I did fix my issues and I am happy to say that I am closer to the man I am meant to be with each passing day. I would say be kind to the men in your life - but don't enable them. Challenge them to be leaders, and encourage & reward them when they take charge. I think many women want to do that naturally, but don't know how, hence they end up becoming nagging & domineering, which doesn't help anyone.

[–]HappilyMrs 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most men do not know how to work on this internally and improve. So of course they will turn to therapy. I dont think the therapy is the issue, it's that it isn't targeted at men's mental models and should be, when treating men. Bottling up and not knowing how to right themselves is one of the reasons suicide is the biggest killer of men under 45. I'd rather men were at least talking to someone rather than struggling alone.

[–]SpecificEntry 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How can it be better targeted to men's mental models?

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Therapy that’s geared towards goal setting, boundary creation and solving life problems. Men need goals and actions. Often male therapists provide that.

[–]JustaTcup 6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Oh yes - I've seen this. Therapy is NOT geared towards men and in most cases extremely demasculinating and detrimental. Just what I've noticed is it's sort of like a mental vasectomy castration for men. I don't think this is going to change any time soon but only get worse.

If maybe in the future you can explain to us how we can be more encouraging to men - I know, I, myself would really appreciate that. I think I've figured out that acknowledging and complimenting a man's masculinity is a good start - but then I don't know where to go from there.

[–]dyomaeth 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If maybe in the future you can explain to us how we can be more encouraging to men

I am open to doing that and going more in-depth, if the kind mods to this sub will allow it. I love reading RPW, but I generally avoid posting, as most topics at most times are not my place to post.

You are absolutely right that complimenting a man's masculinity will often have great results. To add I'd just like to double down on what I said that all men have the natural proclivity to be masculine and to be a leader. When you see a man that is afraid, or broken down, out of shape, visibly depressed and with declining hygiene, you will see a low quality man, and this is definitely what he is at the time - but don't show disgust, or pity. Rather, see it as the unfortunate situation of him depriving us all of a Demigod, as most men have unbelievable potential for greatness. They just need to see it in themselves, but it helps for others to see it in you too. So, look for ways to challenge them to be their best self. I am afraid of being identified so I won't post any pictures, but I have gone from a depressed, obese, game & porn addicted wreck of a man to a fit & strong, outgoing, allegedly charismatic leader with high income, in just a few years. A woman did play a role in helping me get where I am now, with kindness, support and strong belief in my potential. She endlessly vouched for me, while allowing me to take the spotlight, encouraged me when I looked to take charge and always challenged me to be my best self. I did my best to be her rock when things were tough, and she made sure to always remind me that I can do this, I am ready and I have what it takes. In my male point of view, this is what we should look for in a woman - someone who has unwavering faith in our ability. Men live with natural and constant self-doubt. We have no utility to see this in others. A woman who sees our potential, supports us and fuels our heroic will, is a woman we would (and should) commit to in a heartbeat. As I mentioned, just make sure you don't enable any of his self-destructive behavior, or give him too much comfort - be there to challenge in a feminine way, and provide encouragement that sounds genuine.

[–]SpecificEntry 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Therapy is NOT geared towards men and in most cases extremely demasculinating and detrimental.

Can you elaborate on this?

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most men grow up with a certain sense of masculinity that usually involves solving problems by yourself, logical thinking, not asking for help, keeping your walls up.

Therapy is the opposite of all that and it makes men confront their emotions and bring down walls which makes them feel vulnerable and emasculated.

I disagree that therapy is emasculating. I think the idea of masculinity men grow up with is actually a detriment to their lives. Humans have emotions and they should be in touch with them. Any man willing to be vulnerable and explore that side of himself will only come out better.

[–]dyomaeth 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We do explore our emotional side and allow ourselves to be vulnerable. For centuries being a writer, or a musician, or a poet has all been considered a traditionally masculine activity that also explores the depths of our emotivity. What's often expressed is that it's a mistake to show your vulnerable side to a woman, because she will punish you for it. My experience has shown this to be mostly true. I am not sure why women say that they like it when men show vulnerability, when their actions show them to only distance themselves from men who "open up" in front of them.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree. There are some great male artists whom I admire greatly. You have to consider women weren’t allowed to do half the things men were for the majority of history. So all we have is male work. It’s kind of like saying Christians built most historical buildings, universities etc all good things for society but the problem is there was no one else to do the job.

Also, be vulnerable and emotional for yourself and your quality of life. Yes it’s more accepted for women to be vulnerable but let’s face it people in general suck and the weak are put down in society. Any woman worth her salt would never put down vulnerability.

[–]SpecificEntry 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Discouraging men from seeking therapy is one of the most toxic things I've seen on this sub. Most men don't turn to therapy for their issues and the ones who do typically require professional help, and shaming them makes it that much harder to get the help they need. This is a prime example of how TRP men drag each other down with their terrible advice.

> We men have our own way of dealing with our own issues and this rarely includes other people.

And that's how you get a high male suicide rate.

[–]dyomaeth 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No offense, but the way you view and just expressed things is a lot more hostile to masculinity than anything I've said or seen on this sub.

Therapy nowadays is extremely widespread and is more accessible to men than it's ever been and it's not tabboo at all. What I would like you to do is to check therapy's track record with men and specifically therapy combined with psychiatric medication. Has suicide gone up or down since therapy became the norm?

Also, nowhere did I say that men should not seek to challenge and deal with their issues but yes, therapy is not the answer. If men will be shamed for who they are and see their masculinity diminished and trampled upon, therapy won't exactly give safe haven from that, and it will often exasterbate the issue. If there are male-oriented therapists out there that do things differently, please do speak out about them and provide resources.

[–]oliviaj20 20 points21 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I am continually mind-blown at how many porn addictions are out there. I also cannot tell if this is something that was always there, or something i'm just seeing now that my eyes have been opened.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah exactly and apparently IG porn addiction doesn’t count lol? Are these people delusion? You’re looking at naked women 50 times a day from sun up to sun down, what is that, If not an addiction? THE APP IS LITERALLY DESIGNED FOR THAT.

[–]kasirye -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol.. when ig just came I joined it basically for following twerking hoes, and ig hoes sad truth. Now am struggling to unfollow one account after the other because I found other interest accounts not to do with nudity or pornography but again still they pop up outta no way in my feed and I don’t want to loose my account by deleting and creating a new one

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well. Idk what to tell you but it’s disappointing to hear. You’d rather make yourself sick then create a new IG account.

[–]WordsNotToLiveBy 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It wasn't always there. It was more of a naughty thing teenage boys did when they discovered someone older's secret stash or found a dirty mag in the woods somewhere. It was rare and mostly an anomaly once upon a time.

But now it's an alternate solution if it becomes too much trouble dealing with dating. For men, it's part of a biological need. If they can suppress it, then they are more motivated to search out a relationship in order to have that need fulfilled. But if that path is frustrating and not a viable option, then porn fills that void. They get to release that need, and then go about the rest of their day. The porn is a means to an end, which could be dropped if there was something better that came along. Which is easier said than done, as many anecdotes here have suggested.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I just don’t think it’s that simple. It destroys men’s view of women and distorts reality. Most IG models are not real and are photoshopped plus they all use very distinct angles and filters. It’s distorting reality and more women in real life are starting to look less and less attractive

[–]WordsNotToLiveBy 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I agree. The problem is women don't police their own behaviors. They don't collectively shame other women for what older generations would have deemed degrading and look down upon it. Certainly men cannot, or else they'll be called sexist and in the way of female empowerment. It's within women at large to make a firm stand against this and say it isn't empowerment, it will only lead to more seeking attention, depression, validation in the wrong ways, and create a bad foundation for younger girls.

Men simply have been beaten down with the narrative that the cannot tell women what to do with their bodies, so men stop saying anything. Does that mean they will also stop looking/gawking at women. No. It's everywhere.

This sub is a great start and a positive place for even bringing any of this up for discussion. It needs to expand.

[–]SpecificEntry 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, the problem is men don't police their own behaviors. This is your issue, you're the ones with the addiction. Do men not possess agency? Whatever happened to that famous male accountability? Start collectively shaming men into deleting Instagram and abandoning porn. Don't worry, I'm sure you're allowed to tell them what to do with their bodies being a man and all. It's up to you to take a firm stand against this.

[–]WordsNotToLiveBy 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The reason why I put this on women, is because women have always been the gatekeepers of sex. Whereas, men's say usually comes in during commitment.

Men are always going to be attracted to women's physical beauty. So if women are giving it away so freely, it's not men that should be trained to avert their gaze, although plenty of men do. The control should be taken back by women. And the way to do that is to fight against popular ideologies that go against this.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you’re a HVM, you won’t be following low value women on IG and leaving thirsty comments. You’d value intimacy, respect and real women because you would be mature and have integrity.

[–]WordsNotToLiveBy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a very idealistic way of approaching it. Where there are high value folks with no flaws and no urges outside of their direct interactions. In reality, people are more complicated than that. Otherwise, they have successfully got you to buy into to the version of themselves they are selling, and not revealing the entirety of who they are.

Plus it sounds like you could be describing 80% of Reddit. Majority posts that include women have no shortage of thirsty guys. I wish this wasn't the case, as I find it embarrassingly weak-minded, but no amount of what I say will stop there being these types of guys.

I guess that could be applied to women. No matter how many RedPilledWomen try to educate the average woman/girl, there will still be plenty who choose to look for attention in a cheap way.

[–]We_Are_Legion 21 points22 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This is the most degraded generation in history. Women and men.

In men's case, being a good MAN is not the same as being a "good person". Becoming a good man occurs through a set of very distinct mental and physical developments, which men simply do not go through nowadays.

Men are made, not born.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Jesus this is so depressing. Seems like the incentives are aligned in exactly the opposite direction. Will take a really strong guy who wants to make something of himself to beat all these temptations and become a man.

[–]Jihocech_Honza 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only men (mostly fahers) can raise other men.Single mothers and female teachers can not do so.

[–]We_Are_Legion 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're not looking for someone who's "strong". The person who uses willpower to overcome these things will naturally be a very repressed man, who then tends to exhibit an outlet like anger, or some type of addiction (smoking, etc.) or some dependency on ideology.

The type of person who overcomes the detriment that is society is not the biggest gorrilla in the room. But the man who seeks the truth about things. Not a philosopher as society knows it, mind you. This is no big words contest or university essay. But... you will notice that all human beings have a philosophy. All humans. Even something like "bitches aint shit but hoes and tricks" is a philosophy. So is "The human being who has deeply experienced and examined the way that life is will also have a philosophy. Only his will be deeply aligned towards truth.

The pursuit of Truth is what makes a Good Man (which is entirely distinct from, and not to be confused with "good person". totally seperate set of skills). Alignment with the way things are is what makes a good man, in touch with nature, fit to lead and guide others.

Such a man may be an asshole. He certainly cares not for what people think. He very probably follows no one. He may tease people and flaunt all sorts of rules, and still come out on top. He's usually very competent. Has lots of results. Not necessarily arrogant, but certainly has a mechanism for rebellion to society.

Who is the human being with a philosophy aligned towards Truth?

The man who has a desire to KNOW accompanied by the fundamental and subconscious understanding that he does not know.

[–]TheMartianArtist6 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Gosh, yes, this.

[–][deleted]  (25 children) | Copy Link


[–]NoFondant2503[S] 10 points11 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Wrong. Don’t make men the victim of the culture here. Here’s what I think men should do to improve their life:

Work out. Get a career. Start saving. Take an interest in hobbies like sports or art. Make guy friends. Stop online dating. Go to therapy.

I do all of these things. I’m a millennial and I make 6 figures, have my own home and hobbies and wide variety of interests. I’m a woman and although I have a lot of access to sex because I’m considered attractive, I’m sexually disciplined and don’t sleep with losers. I cut men off as soon as I find these low value traits because I want a man who values me and adores me.

I say these things not to boast about myself but to say that millennials are dealing with alot, I’m dealing with alot but I don’t make excuses to engage in borderline narcissistic, psychopathic behavior.

[–]Pycnostyle 18 points19 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What do you think high value men want in a woman?

I'm very happy for you that you have a great career, your own home, solid personal finances, healthy habits, and a life full of hobbies. I don't in any way, shape, or form criticize those. You absolutely should live life to the fullest.

Take a moment and try to imagine yourself as a HVM. Not a fantasy HVM, but a real, living, breathing human being. Obviously imagine your aspirations, your triumphs, the times you fell short and dusted yourself off and tried again. Imagine the respect of your peers and the attention from women. Imagine your mission. Maybe you don't know what it is, but imagine being drawn by one. Imagine your normal human frailties, too. The imposter syndrome, the insecurity that you might not achieve all of your goals. The frustrations when things don't go your way. Take it all in as best you can, the totality of it.

Now imagine you're single and are ready to settle down. To start a family. What are you looking for in a woman? A wife? Let's say your friend said, "I know this woman, and she's single and she's 'a millennial and I make 6 figures, have my own home and hobbies and wide variety of interests.'" Are you jumping up and down wanting to get set up with her? Do you even care how much money she makes when you're a multimillionaire? Do you care that she owns a home that you had no part in creating? Do you care that she has a life with many hobbies and interests? I mean, obviously none of these is a negative, but are any of those really attractive to you?

You complained that you're primarily attracting the interest of low value men. I challenge you to read the sidebar and be prepared to look at relationships differently. If you're not prepared to give us what we want, what we need, you can't turn around and be surprised when we don't take the bait.

I truly wish you success out there. It's not easy.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t consider any of these things to factor into my overall attractiveness. Let me also add that I appreciate and indulge my femininity, take care of myself, keep my weight low and myself pretty. I would even consider being a Stay at home mom for the right guy and focus on raising my kids because that’s what would make me truly happy. My overall point was, I’m a woman and with all the difficulties of being a woman plus a millennial. I have options to become an Instagram slut or become a sugar baby whatever low value women are doing these days but I choose a better path and I just don’t see men standing up in the face of adversity.

[–]Jihocech_Honza -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

great career, your own home, solid personal finances, healthy habits, and a life full of hobbies

Perfect mistress.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well. What do you want me to do? Make $20k a year live in a shitty apartment and just hope a porn sick, aggressive guy sweeps me off my feet? I make money and do things because I have to, I literally have no motivation to be chained to a desk my whole life. I want to be a mom and have kids and love my family. I’d like a career but not where I work 60-80 hours a week. Do you see how this is a difficult problem?

[–]All_Lurk_No_Post365 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not excusing anyone treating another person badly.

Yes men are in fact a victim of the cultural changes in the last decade or so. Go search online and you'll see a plethora of posts about men struggling romantically and sexually it's across the nation. Yes I'm glad you make 6 figures but not everyone is going to make 6 figures.

Yes men absolutely need hobbies preferably ones of culture and ones that are physically active.

Why would a HVM settle down when he has an abundance of options that will give him sex without commitment? That's literally the male biological goal.

You say you want a man to love and adore you, that's a perfectly healthy desire but let me ask, with all the options available to you now in 2021 what's the lowest in looks and height and income you're willing to settle for in a man? I bet it will weed out 80-85% of the men. And no I do not think you are a bad guy if you have options to back up your standards.

[–]HappilyMrs 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You are doing extremely well for a millennial. Most of your peers wont be doing as well. If your dating pool is very small because you need someone with a matching status, it'll be even harder to find a non-addicted, non-porn guy

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hmmm. Yep. I’m beginning to realize.

[–]kasirye -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just cut off some filter off your dating pool... maybe low the bar at least. Just saying

[–]anotheredittor76777 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Never low the bar on your values though. Maybe on the your type physically, or how much money he makes.

[–]special_k_5 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

That above comment above porn and sex is absolutely correct. 30% of men aged 18-25 are virgins now. It’s a stat. So not wrong. And that changes how you view the world and what you want to do in it. Couple that with a financial crisis, now this crisis, combined with how much houses cost. It’s no wonder we are here. We aren’t the only victims. Both men and women are of this new found culture. And as other posters said, no real HVM cares if you make 6 figures. I can assure you this. It’s a bonus, not a requirement at all. We don’t view y’all, how you view us. And before you say I’m an unhappy virgin, I am not. I get laid. But I see the struggles of my fellow men and it’s the saddest thing ever.

[–]SpecificEntry 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

And as other posters said, no real HVM cares if you make 6 figures. I can assure you this. It’s a bonus, not a requirement at all. We don’t view y’all, how you view us.

She never made that claim. Why are trp men so sensitive to any mention of financial success?

She simply stated that she was able to achieve what a LVM potentially could if he stopped making excuses and dropped his victim mentality.

[–]special_k_5 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

“Similar/higher class structure, higher salary than me. I don’t look at porn (maybe once in 6 months and I’m grossed out with what’s out there every time) or have any addictions.”

And she mentioned it twice more. Literally said so herself! I’m not making anything up here.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you can't discuss without getting angry, take a break. Remove the last sentence so I do not have to remove the whole comment.

[–]special_k_5 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read the thread ffs. I’m not making shit up.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No one is sensitive to women's success. No man is sexually attracted to it either. Debate without backhand insults

[–]All_Lurk_No_Post365 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Facts brother facts. Not hating but most women have no idea about the sexual and romantic struggles of millennial men.

[–]special_k_5 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

No idea whatsoever. So disconnected. The burden of performance is on us. We must create value to be looked at as something. Women are born with value and must preserve it. “Privilege is invisible to those who have it”. They won’t understand that 80% of men are basically sexless because sex is easy as walking into a candy store from them. It’s why most men resort to porn, IG, and OF, because that subsection of men are COMPLETELY invisible to women. They aren’t even considered. OP even states she won’t date someone with an “average career”, which overlooks at bare minimum 50%+ of men. It’s bananas, but hey we can try explaining it. Keep it real bro, keep working and grinding, get to the top 10% and reap the rewards. You got this ;). As for you OP, be less picky or you may just end up a spinster asking where all the good men went. Not saying settle, perhaps adjust. If every girl got the top 20% man, well shit, then it wouldn’t be too 20% now would it. GL y’all, somebody’s gonna need it.

[–]SpecificEntry 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Listen, we get it but we just don't care. There is no disconnect, we know that you're sexless, we know you're expected to approach. No need to keep explaining it (i.e. whining about it) it's not going to stop women from vetting out undesirable men. Shaming women into lowering their standards won't work, better to be a spinster than be with a man who adds no value to your life.

[–]special_k_5 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That’s fine, do you. I ain’t whining. I fuck. I made it to the top 20% because I realized the game. I’m headed for the top 10%, then the top 5%. I’ll never stop. Don’t you worry. My options are becoming endless. I age like fine wine. No complaints here. My fellow man is fucked, but that’s their problem. I do wish you the best and hope you truly find what you want. Don’t settle! Gl.

[–]All_Lurk_No_Post365 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You dropped this King 👑

Same bro I'm working my way up as well, can't wait to be drowning in options and spinning plates.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Special K 5 is totally missing the point. I’m not looking down on men but how am i supposed to respect my husband if I know I can do what he does and much much better and make a lot more money than he does? That average career guy would be “undesirable” to me because I can’t look up to him.

Plus, the whole class structure thing is just compatibility. Yes, I can and am willing to date a self made man no matter where he comes from but the reality is MOST people stay in their class structures and have certain lifestyles based on that. I will entertain the exception but I’m not placing my bets on that.

Women’s mating game is dating/ marrying up in all relevant criteria. You can’t change that. We’re hardwired like that. Do you need me to explain more?

[–]lavachequirie 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminism happened to men.

[–]BaobabOFFCL 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]Roxitten 15 points16 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It's because it's easily accessible. Porn and porn-type content. Not an excuse, but the male standard of what's socially acceptable.

Anger and addiction well, it's getting harder and harder to be a man nowadays so it's not surprising.

Part of the problem might be where you're looking for men.

When in a relationship set clear expectations. Don't expect someone to be 'relationship ready' when they've been single for awhile.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Right. I’ve considered your last point before however would a man date a girl whose slept around a lot before but now she’s getting “relationship-ready”? Like the same thing goes for men. If you have an unhealthy sexual appetite and are doing low value things to deal with it, why should I really trust it?

[–]special_k_5 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No we wouldn’t. And no same doesn’t apply. Again you are looking at the world how we view you. It’s not how you should view us. We are different. Stop doing that. What makes a women attractive isn’t what makes a man attractive. These are the exact lies that feminism teaches. Not saying you are a feminist, but the way you talk, sure has a lot of talking points like you are.

[–]SpecificEntry 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What makes a women attractive isn’t what makes a man attractive.

Women are disgusted by porn-addicted men. That is not how men view women. Men do not care about women watching porn, but that does affect a women's attraction to a man. You need to accept that and stop telling women what they find attractive. Stop doing that.

[–]special_k_5 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you listening to yourself? It’s what I said. Attraction is different. I’m not telling you what to like. I’m telling you what you will come across. Good fucking luck. You are so thick in your skull, holy shit.

[–]Roxitten -3 points-2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You shouldn't trust it, I guess. Trust is built over time and maintained of course.

Dating someone who is a slave to their sexual appetite is obviously a bad idea.

I honestly feel like a good man, will conform to your needs and wants. They won't change their personalities.

If they see a future with you. And you make them happy and content. It'll make them better.

Men need a companion. The longer a guy is single the worse off he is in a lot of ways. I don't feel this is the same for women.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don’t want to be a guys therapist. Been there done that. I’m 26 and I’m not in a position to be rolling the dice. I only have a few years left.

[–]BeholdTheHair 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, you just want to wait at the finish line and be swept up by the winner as he moves through the crowd.

Part of a healthy, long-lasting relationship is growing together and, as a result, making each other better. The ideal man you're dreaming of has dozens of women - younger, more attractive and more pleasant than you - throwing themselves at him every day. Why should he settle for you when your sense of entitlement thunders over every word you write?

[–]Roxitten -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand, I'm not saying to try to fix someone.

Any LTR is rolling the dice.

Maybe you can find someone completely relationship ready. And all you need to do is patient and vigilant.

[–]PrincessaRusalka 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. I have always wished to go back in time to the 70's or something. Every guy that I had a crush on seemed to be so damaged in some way and they would never forgive me if I pointed it out to them. The ones I don't have a crush on are weird too, dealbreakers as well or I would date them.

It's America... I guess?

[–]gorgeouskitten 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sadly, the qualities that we’re often looking for are deemed “toxic” by society, so men aren’t really ‘men’ very much anymore. Women (and many men) have told men that everything about them is horrific and needs to be completely changed. Consequently, men don’t really know ‘how’ to be men anymore or how be what/who they are called to be. It’s terribly sad.

Move to a red state for starters would be my first piece of advice. Move to an area where the culture encourages men to be men.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m in a blue city/red state but yes I totally agree men are not ,if they ever were, encouraged to be the best version of themselves.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link


[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

None of those things plus I’ve been in therapy and never diagnosed with anything. Can you explain what you mean by hard events?

[–]TheBunk_TB 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

World events, wars, etc. Various scientific or social events combined with all of these to push (men and women) back together with purpose.

[–]Sad_Refrigerator2003 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This has amazed me I've been pondering on it ever since you posted it

[–]PNWHimbo 8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It will be extremely difficult for you to find a man who doesn't ever view pornography. Like, borderline impossible. It isn't unreasonable to ask that your partner not view pornography often while dating you, and certainly while living together, but honestly if that is your dealbreaker then you are probably in for somebody lying to you about their porn use or somebody with a very low sex drive. And if a man has many of the qualities that you want - let's just assume that you want someone attractive, fit, who has a secure and well-paying occupation - then I would write the porn thing off.

Virtually all men view pornography:

I'm not saying it isn't harmful, but you swim in the water you're in.

[–]itsjbuttz 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It’s fine if a man has past struggles with pornography and reforms himself, but at the end of the day, porn is degenerate, decreases testosterone, and shows a lack of self-discipline.

[–]PNWHimbo 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you, completely! However, the number of men who don't ever view pornography is vanishingly small. (Especially after the pandemic, wfh, etc.) It's a bit like saying that you will only date or marry someone who make more than a million dollars a year. Yeah, those men are out there, but it's much more realistic to have the expectation that your man not be totally porn brained and recognize that pornography is generally bad for the people who use it, the people who make it, and society in general.

[–]BilboBagginhole -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I had never heard that porn decreases testosterone, so I looked it up and couldn't find any showing a correlation. In fact, there are some studies that show it increases T levels.

If lack of porn is a criteria for women, then they should resign themselves to being single or being with weak men. The only men I know who say they don't look at porn were very feminine men.

[–]itsjbuttz 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My boyfriend is quite the opposite of a weak man and finds porn to be a sign or moral weakness. Cumbrains are very beta.

[–]ElleDreamface 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Found the coomer

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Please read my post again.

[–]PNWHimbo 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What did I miss?

And I am a man,trust me there are p l e n t y of women with anger, addiction, and pornography issues. It is not a problem that is strictly confined to men. There is a broad atomization and breakdown in American society, and it manifests in a number of ways. For instance, the rates of alcohol and anti-depressant use for young women is extremely high.

[–]bkreddit856 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here's a perspective:

I can't speak for the overwhelming need for sex that women might have, but I can vouch for it from a male perspective, especially in during that age.

Now, I will say that porn in large quantity is damaging, in a variety of ways. That having been said I usually equate the biological drive for sex to being like you are starving.

Porn, in this scenario, is junk food. It's not actually nourishing, but it is quick, low effort, and will sate your hunger.

The bitch is, the more you run to junk food, the more it makes you forget how to cook (read: impacts your ability to actually make romantic inroads).

That testosterone haze starts to fade around 35, but yes late teens throughout your 20s, you're a walking hardon.

I'm not saying women should be easy, but realize you're competing against low attention spans and junk food.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah and I don’t know what to do. I’m surrounded by Narcissistic borderline women desperate for attention on Instagram and aggressive narcissistic men addicted to porn and engaging in anti social behavior. It’s bleak out here.

[–]FreierSteinkopf 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Why should they bother though? In america it seems like 50% of men get ignored solely because of their genetics, then there is a layer of guys that have potential but choose to be low value (Fat, Lazy, Low earning) so they won't get much attention and then there are HVM that have all the options. I can consider myself as one of the men in the last group. I love to cook, practice Muay Thai, I am disciplined, no baggage, perfect height, good looking, healthy family/childhood, great career prospects, no social media, no porn, no gaming etc. I got approached by women plenty of times and never had to do it myself.

Eventhough I always wanted to have a wife and 3 children, marriage becomes more unattractive as the days goes by because the quality of women (in america at least) has dropped drastically and I am not going to loose half my assets because my wife had sex with another guy (women cheat as much or more these days). And even if I was to marry someone I would choose the 20 year old girl with little to no income and no physical/mental problems instead of someone who is in therapy and that can be considered a career women. I am not calling you low value here you might be a great person but thoose 2 strikes are 2 too many.

In conclusion I am totally fine being single and driving around europe on a motorcycle listening to Wherever I may Roam and don't risk anything. I won't settle.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

No that’s fine and you’re right but as a single woman how am I supposed to survive without a career? I would gladly be at home taking care of kids but I make 6 figures because no man is providing me with that lifestyle.

[–]FreierSteinkopf 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

There is a healthy middle ground. I don't know where you live but 6 figures always sound to me like manager, small business owner, lawyer etc. All of these jobs are either a bit masculine in nature or uninteresting. The amount of men who you deem as dateable is shrinking with higher income too. Depending on what other factors you want in a man (height, income, looks, hobbies/common interests, life goals, political views, porn consumption) your dating pool is probably less than 1% of all men. It simply doesn't add up. Besides that a HVM has all the options and would need to choose you out of all the other women. What would you provide that other high value women don't offer? I am not saying it is impossible for you to find a guy that is 'better' than you but it is going to be HARD.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree completely. All I can offer to a man is sexuality, health, beauty, nurture, children, care and a sane psychological state. Apart from that I’m cultured and have a developed personality and I would say I’m pleasant to be around but other women can provide that too. So idk if I’m special.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Please remember that men must be trp participants before coming here.

[–]BilboBagginhole 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you mean the trp sub? Just wondering because I can't really stand that sub. Its like a dick waving contest to see how many plates they can spin.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]bloopblapbleep 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Social media is fucking us up.. I’m fact modern society is fucking us up we all need to go back to damn nature.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah but then I think If everything’s out in the open, women can make informed decisions instead of being tricked into being with some weirdo whose hiding all this stuff.

[–]bloopblapbleep 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not hard to lie about yourself on social media lol that pretty much what social media has been for the past 4 - 6 years

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link


[–]HappilyMrs 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Feminists have made men watch porn?

[–]RedLantern- 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link


But the people who create porn, who write in the media (especially liberal shit like toxic masculinity), who are in charge of Hollywood and who pushed feminism are the same.

[–]SpecificEntry 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

These are all different people lol

[–]RedLantern- 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


The people who own the media, own Hollywood and own porn are the same.

Look harder.

[–]AnotherRichard827379 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just putting it out there that men are similarly frustrated with the women they encounter.

[–]JustaTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of us know that and are just as frustrated with the women we encounter too lol. It's hard to find other RPWs and a lot of times you end up pretty isolated or lonely as a woman believing in this way of life.

[–]JacksonPolish 8 points9 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Are you perfect? It sounds like you're expecting an obscure ideal of perfection from a man and that's just not possible, no matter how high value a person is. I'm not saying to settle for someone without integrity at all, just that it you actually want to find someone you're going to have to accept a flawed human.

[–]SDgirlburner 16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If she cannot find a man with integrity I’m sure she’s prepared to be alone. Most women these days would rather be single and alone then attach to some one not worth the time. Your comment sounds like a guy saying “if you don’t accept these common vices you’ll be alone and more miserable.” Women are saying “no, I’d rathe be alone then be with some one with these vices.” 🤷‍♀️

[–]Sad_Refrigerator2003 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Literally same. Also I've dated men who could totally control their anger peaceful as hell angelic and know how to love me

Not everybody is bottom barrel. Wtf does flawed even mean? People just say everybody has flaws but they need to fr specify

I view flaws as being not the best version of themselves that they could be. I view perfect as being the highest version of themselves as they can be.

People need to realize people have different definitions on what perfect and without flaws means. I think my life is perfect just cause I'm not rich and don't own a private island and achieved all my goals this minute doesn't mean I don't believe it is perfect

A lot of people are perfect in my definition. I even believe I'm perfect in my own definition. I am a very nervous person but being nervous and a lot of human shit I just don't consider as flaws. It's all about your perception.

Perfect for a human.

[–]Sad_Refrigerator2003 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

And It's all about choices. If I don't like your choices I'm not going to date you. I think flaws only exist in things you can control anyway. I mean dude is freely choosing to be a dick and most of the things you hate about him. Some dude out there is making better choices

[–]Sad_Refrigerator2003 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And settling for less than what you want is bullsh*t I don't care if it seems impossible die being open to better shit coming your way. Don't lock yourself in with a guy you don't think is your version of top notch wtf is that?

Marriage is like one of the only things you can't change with little stress involved

[–]orangerose18 18 points19 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Basic decency and a will to self improve is not too high of a standard. All the problems OP listed are not going to be issues for a HVM

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


[–]orangerose18 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes — but anger issues can be addressed. Porn addiction can be addressed. Unchecked and unabashed practice of these issues is a major red flag and OP is not unreasonable for setting boundaries there.

[–]JacksonPolish -5 points-4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But she doesn't list basic decency and a will to improve oneself as her standards. She listed anger, addiction, porn and following Instagram models as deal breakers for her.

Many HVM have tempers (anger...) and many more have gone through their own trials and tribulations to become the men they are. Just because someone hasn't lived the life of a perfect story book prince doesn't mean they aren't a HVM.

[–]orangerose18 13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

a HVM isn’t defined by wealth. A HVM is defined by moral character. One can progress from LVM to HVM through self improvement and work on himself, but until he reaches a point of self control, he is still LVM.

There is no such thing as an abusive HVM.

[–]JacksonPolish -5 points-4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I totally agree - that's why I never brought up wealth.

I don't think that someone with a temper is necessarily abusive, but we all have different opinions on that.

[–]orangerose18 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anger issues are a precursor to abuse. I’ve seen it too often to unlink the two.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You made my point for me. Basic standards is not a fairy tale prince life.

[–]Sad_Refrigerator2003 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I saw a movie called Come True wish I could find a dude like that

Even he was in her dream in a coma lmao

Yeah I think their minds are broken beyond repair. Totally deluded

[–]Good_Ad2143 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

😂😂😂 clearly it isn't you🙄

[–]BeholdTheHair -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Heaven forfend.

This is quite possibly the most aggressively BP OP I've ever seen on this sub.

[–]Pinkcd36 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its a pandemic of socially weird, immature men in Miami .. very hard here

[–]Hopeful_Pay_6685 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I can relate. It depends how they are with their issues, if they're ashamed of their porn addiction and are willing to change, I would be lenient. But, I definitely liked guys who ended up being degenerate, it's annoying. I find church guys are usually better. And, do not give the time of day to a guy following instahoes, just don't. Girls nowadays already struggle with their body image, so you don't need a guy making you more insecure.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Totally agree. I would be incompatible with someone religious but this whole Instagram “models” thing is ridiculous. It tells me so much about a man and his integrity.

[–]Hopeful_Pay_6685 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know how girls can put up with this, that would make me pull out my hair and probably affect my mental health. And young girls are exposed to this, I don't want my daughter thinking she needs to put so much pressure in her physical self just to impress a man.

[–]rammerplex 3 points4 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

It is pretty sad these days. I am an old guy with three sons. Each of them have jobs, one or more cars, and stable housing and no issues. None have a girlfriend.

One tried, but she was so crazy that she wouldn't let him go to his grandmother's funeral, because it upset her plans, so he had to dump her to attend. Believe me, his brothers noticed.

Women are the problem today. My boys can just make some money now and wait until the current crop of crazy girls age out. And I don't blame them for their choice. Five to ten years from now women will have learned not to be ridiculous.

There are two things you can do to be able to meet men like my boys now. First tell other women to start respecting men so men might trust you and won't avoid all women all the time, and second go to places where men are respected; these include church, hardware/auto stores, sports events, and companies where men do work (construction, computers, electricity, law enforcement, manufacturing, and other dirty jobs).

I wish you the best, but right now, and for the next few years, it is going to be really hard for you. Real men are on strike, and women need to change before the men you want will want to pay you any attention.

[–]JustaTcup 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I wish you could be in my shoes for just 1 week (don't worry I mostly wear flats lol). You would be horrified. Finding a healthy man is very, very difficult. Most I meet are just the effect of really bad upbringings. Their brains are not working right - I mean really unhealthy. Of course you might say it's because of their experiences with women - and in some cases I think you're right. But in most I'm ending up dealing with men who haven't even had traumatic experiences with women and their behavior is more than mentally unstable. There's no self-control or strength or ethics. Nothing a man should have - and it's not any woman's fault in these cases. These are personal choices based on a really bad foundation.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your sons but what's out here isn't good.

[–]rammerplex 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yah, you are right. If my sons are having problems finding decent women, I am sure that decent women are having trouble finding decent men. Maybe someone here could start a post about thoughts on where successful relationships begin.

[–]JustaTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for being so lovely in return. And I really do hope someone does. There is so much to figure out and not really many resources to look to for help.

[–]HappilyMrs 4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

The average teenage boy is already watching porn. How is that women's fault?

[–]CousinJeff 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

why do you keep responding to peoples posts where they speak at length and harping specifically on porn, ignoring everything else said?

[–]HappilyMrs 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It was the part of the post I was most interested in getting clarification on. Do I need to run my responses by you first?

[–]CousinJeff 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

we’re all free to just reply to what interests us right? i’m seeking clarification on why you’re asking that, it’s seemingly irrelevant and nobody has said what you’re inferring from their comments

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Men are actually required to be trp participants before commenting here so, no.

[–]CousinJeff 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

word my bad let me go comment “AWALT” a couple times and come back

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Insufficient. Also, I'm in awalt, ban happy, no sleep, as-bitchy-as-your-ex-wife mode, so dont be an ass.

Read the rules for men.

[–]CousinJeff 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

it’s cool, do your thing. i’ve been reading this sub for like 2 years. i’m not gonna go post in another sub a bunch of times to qualify being able to post here. those are your rules, then fine. if banning me helps you deal with whatever it is you’re describing you’re feeling right now, feel free.

[–]CVSeason 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]BaobabOFFCL 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Theres almost nothing in society encouraging men to be better anymore.

It's now a "do what you want, have fun" society after all...

[–]Atsena 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Their bad behavior is enabled too much 🤷‍♀️

[–]sacarneiro 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone has addictions and is not perfect I guess.

[–]Letmetellyouabtlyfe 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m incredibly frustrated that every guy I have feelings for, I somehow later find out he has one or more of these issues going on and it’s a dealbreaker for me. Like why should I settle for someone with no integrity?

It's going to be and it is the predominant issue that womwn are face/ are going to face in the 21st century.

I don’t know if this was always the case and men have always been like this

They have always been like this.

Accessibility n overall normalization of the what was once taboo. Now everything is out in the open . everything is marked as okay now.

BC the internet n these websites n technology as a whole is continuously upgrading and access to 18+ content is becoming readily accessible so it's hard to not ever in ur entire life to not at least scroll by it or not see it somewhere. Like literally these images are on trucks, on cars, in movies, ppl enacting them in public,.. Society has become super hyper sexualized in an animalistic way n it's only getting worse. There are many women who are conscious of this n care n refrain n separate/differentiate themselves n just as many men and women who are involved in promoting such behavior.

The psychological impacts are tremendous n ppl are very impressionable especially as someone else said bc there are a lack of strong male role models and healthy dynamics. These things that are happening are ironically exposing just how weak men were n how they were more occupied with being macho on the outside without lack of basic moral character coming from the inside. Men of today are replicas of their parental figures n this makes sense BC those things that they do so openly now were once repressed. Everyone was forced to be on the hush hush about it.

These issues are coming out as a result of a void they r trying to fill with transient things. They never learned self control BC their fathers never had control over their own lustful desires. They've only taught women to control their own desires. They only punished women.

[–]ElleDreamface 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I've previously made a post about how I think women should plan for a life without a partner because of how bad these issues have become in recent years and men in the comments were pretty angry.

I think modern western culture promotes attitudes that lead to these behaviours. The culture of living for the now rather than planning for the future, the culture of instant gratification, the culture of throwing things away at slight inconvenience instead of fixing them.

Porn is extremely addictive, i believe trying to quit porn has a higher relapse rate than most hard drugs. It really doesn't help that a lot of people don't even see viewing porn as a bad thing.

Most men refuse to go to therapy to work on their issues and most of them aren't interested in improving themselves, and why would they? Why go through the very tedious and difficult journey of self improvement and self disciple when you can just find a woman with self esteem low enough to accept poor behaviour? This is my post.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I totally agree. I hope I find a decent one but it’s rough out here and I feel like I’m losing my mind when I’m told these basic standards are too much of an ask.

[–]ElleDreamface 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’m told these basic standards are too much to ask.

That's not a coincidence either. Changing your behaviour long term and sticking to it requires a lot of dedication and willpower. Most of these guys can't be bothered.

They'll try and scare you by saying that even the most basic and reasonable of standards is 'too much', 'entitled', 'feminist' because they are hoping you'll just give up and settle for what you can find.

Don't fall for it.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah you can’t fool grown women with that crap but you can a teenager which most of them want to date anyways. These people aren’t interested in mature relationships, they want a kid they can bully and manipulate. I’m saying this because at one point I was that young kid being traumatized by useless, immature, disrespectful men.

[–]ElleDreamface 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

which most of them want to date anyways

Yeah they endlessly talk about wanting a virgin because it 'decreases divorce risk' yet few of them are virgins themselves and ignore the biggest divorce risk: Large age gaps lol.

I’m saying this because at one point I was that young kid being traumatized by useless, immature, disrespectful men.

I'm really sorry to hear that, I hope you're in a much better place now.

Check out my post, you might find it helpful.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I did and the response is exactly what I expected. Some of them were fine but mostly these Men will be unhappy forever in silly, superficial relationships. They’ll never know the love of a strong woman.

We’ll be alone but not unhappy, just alone.

[–]ElleDreamface 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men will be unhappy forever in silly, superficial relationships. They’ll never know the love of a strong woman.

Let them, i doubt many of them will even get that. More and more women are walking away from relationships. it just isn't worth it.

We’ll be alone but not unhappy, just alone.

The good news is, it's fairly easy (and not so costly) for women to have kids via a sperm donor. It's not the same for men though, eggs and surrogates are extremely expensive.

Since a lot of these men are obsessed with 'passing on their genes' they'll have a hard time without women.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link


[–]NoFondant2503[S] 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

From personal experience and the many many women I know, it ranges from basically early teens to 65 year olds across most races, most intellectual and economic levels

[–]special_k_5 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I’m gonna keep it 100 with you. If you don’t want your man to be watching porn or looking at IG thots, AND he needs to earn more money than you PLUS be in good shape, you seriously are looking at less than 3% of men. Add in some other factors like being liberal, and whatever else and you basically have no pool of men. Either you will have to lower your standards somewhat, somewhere, or you can hold out hope you find the 3/100. GL

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

If the basics are too much for men then I’d rather be alone than be in another relationship /marriage plagued with these vices 🤷🏻‍♀️

[–]special_k_5 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Are you religious? Because these aren’t basics. Porn is a part of men since age 8-10 and it’s going lower now. I had an addiction for 16 years and only now cut it off. I assure you, there are men like the ones you want, they are just far and few in between.

If you are okay giving up your dream person where everything is correct, but they make 40-80k and that’s the only flaw, then GL. Because you may find, it’ll get harder and harder as the years go on, and you may kick yourself at 35-40 for not going for them. Just saying. You may be happy too, but at what point is a life of no partner/child worth it? Does being right make it worth it? Does settling ever so slightly not make it worth it? Ask yourself these. It’s what I am asking myself too as a male. I’m coming to terms with not finding a “perfect” women. I’ll have 1-3 deal breakers, and everything else is a non starter/fixable.

For instance, they do everything you want but are not in great shape. That’s FIXABLE! Again GL :)

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’m an atheist. I don’t have an issue with porn viewed in doses but not following Instagram/Twitter accounts of porn or looking at pornhub every day. There is no moderation and it’s becoming an addiction. I will compromise, I’m loving and choose to see the better side or people but I will not compromise on addiction vices, money etc because I need to respect and look up to the man I’m with and my kids need to be able to do that too.

If you’re a man with no sexual discipline and your lazy with an average career, gtfo of my face

[–]magnafire 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I actually agree with everything you said except the career bit so if he’s an electrician or a plumber you’re just going to look down on him and not consider him worthy? That’s wack imo

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No I don’t look down on people. We would have hugely different lifestyles unfortunately because of the class structure our society is in.

[–]special_k_5 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your stance on porn, vices, and addictions is all good. One shouldn’t have those regularly tbh. As long as you don’t either then that works. Some people are hypocrites like that, not saying you are. And does average career mean average in salary, or a career that’s viewed as average? Because those are two different viewpoints.

[–]NoFondant2503[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Similar/higher class structure, higher salary than me. I don’t look at porn (maybe once in 6 months and I’m grossed out with what’s out there every time) or have any addictions.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link


[–]NoFondant2503[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Explain this more, please

[–]SDgirlburner 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He’s trying to blame your biology as a woman your “need” to find the best partner, for other men’s actions. Sadly he failed because the two do not correlate. He seems to think that because society is more sex positive and open it’s ok to consume as much negative imagery as he wants, be as angry at your gender as he wants, and be addicted to what ever he wants because some woman treated him poorly and he blames hypergamy. The thing is, to men like this, women are to blame for all their woes. Even when one like you is asking a solid question and showing him that not all women are like the women he actually lusts after. 🤷‍♀️

[–]Feeliner 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most dating these days is from apps. And as an average man, you'll have difficulties in online dating. All those short and ugly men with girlfriends you see outside? They met their partner using social circles and mutual friends. Most perpetually single and sexless men simply lack the social life needed to get a woman.

Example: Imagine that you're a short man making moves on woman x. This woman x WILL date you if you met at someone's wedding. Because that she doesn't mind dating a short guy. But that exact same woman x will NOT swipe right on you in an app. Because that you where not tall.

[–]Suntezza 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey, no one is perfect, in fact I d be worried about the 'perfect guy'. Besides, I don't think there is anything wrong with porn, what the guy does in private is his own business (it doesn't hurt anybody and even healthy to do so). Good luck finding your men.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


[–]NoFondant2503[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Never sleeping with anyone randomly or anything. These is a long relationship, a marriage and a couple situationships. Also hearing other women’s stories.

[–]Good_Ad2143 -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Aggressive? 😂😂😂 chill snowflake

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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