What's the one thing you disagree regarding TRPW theory?

Vellore992 · 2019-09-05T14:23:18+00:00

I often see men in here claiming that education/career means nothing to men and that we shouldn't waste our time on that pesky PhD because it just gets in the way.

It may not make a woman more sexually attractive, but in gaining commitment from a certain (valuable) type of man it has a huge impact. My husband and his friends are all high status, educated men, and while they'll gladly have a fling with the cute waitress, when they marry it is always with an educated, successful woman. If these men are your target, you need to be able to keep up in their world.

Education doesn't matter to a certain type of man, sure, but this type of man isn't usually on an educated woman's radar anyway.

masterofthebarkarts · 2019-09-05T19:35:13+00:00

This is just me being nit-picky, but: I agree with a lot of the observed phenomena of TRP, but not necessarily the explanation for it. It is, after all, just a theory, and "evolutionary biology" is a damn hard thing to prove empirically. I don't think it necessarily matters, though. Did I branch-swing in my youth because I was hypergamously seeking the best Alpha? Or because I was a serial monogamist and afraid of being alone? Or because I recognized that my current boyfriends were not right for me, and I was young and hot and could start dating someone else immediately? Ultimately, who cares - the important thing is to recognize the behaviour in myself and work to correct it so that I don't keep fucking up my life and relationships forever :)

Sayeesa13 · 2019-09-05T18:23:48+00:00

The emphasis on looks.

While I agree that taking care of oneself is highly important, I think we get way to down about our looks and then that gets in the way seeing our true value, or it becomes an excuse to not look at our other facets that truly need the work (like sometimes our attitude for example).

I feel as though I've been on the chubby side almost my entire life- I don't fit any of the beauty norms, and it's messed with my self esteem the whole time. Even while getting compliments from friends and high value males my entire life.

The man I'm currently dating is as Captain as they come, and he works out at least 5 days a week... But since we've been dating I went from somewhat thinner than my normal size to what I feel is very chubby again- I have a little extra on my belly, my thighs, my arms, etc- but he adores me! Every day he says he loves my body, my womanly curves, he worships me, etc. And his attentions follow his word perfectly. I've never felt more cherished in my life.

I do some kind of physical activity every day, and I watch what I eat usually (although we do have nights where we eat junk or a heavy meal) so I'm not using it as an excuse to be lazy, but it's shocked me over and over just how different the ideas of attractiveness are between men and women.

I remember when the Beyonce and Jay-Z scandal broke (which I have no real opinion of), all the women at the office where I worked were so shocked and disappointed, saying "if that goddess can't get a man to stay loyal, there's no hope for me!" And then one of the men said something I'll never forget "it's not about how a woman looks, it's about how she makes her man feel".

I've found that it's very true. A good, healthy man would rather be with a woman who is objectively a 5 but who is pleasant, makes him feel useful and admired, etc., than be with a 10 with a bad attitude.

Self care is important- but we have to use it for everything, not just our looks. Doing things that relax us and make us happy is just as important as working out. Having a beautiful personality does wonders.

Zegiknie · 2019-09-05T17:16:02+00:00

The women who end up here too often are anxious-preoccupied and take these 'rules' entirely too seriously. Life should be fun. So I disagree with all the rules anytime people look at them as being 'rules'. This is a toolbox. Use what you need, toss the rest and ENJOY YOUR LIVES!

The point of being a great wife is not to earn awards or save society. It's to have a great marriage which is also not an end-goal. The end-goal is joy. Too many here seem to forget...

stay_rad23 · 2019-09-06T00:31:07+00:00

On Married red pill threads I've seen some men (I've definitely see other men voice their disagreement) talk about that they pretty much don't even try and hide cheating on their wives. They justify it by saying that they are otherwise good providers, fathers, and husband's so their wife will turn a blind eye. I just personally am in an monogamous marriage and don't think this is high quality behavior that I would tolerate.

dangernoodle88 · 2019-09-05T13:18:26+00:00

I was not willing to move in until marriage was definitely on the horizon. We made an out of state move a few months before the wedding. I told my husband early on that I have my own life and goals and was not willing to uproot my life without a ring. He was surprised because in his peer group girls regularly move in with their high earning boyfriends without a commitment beyond girlfriends and those girls have yet to end up married to any of the guys. They cohabit for a while (sometimes years) before ending up dumped. This had even happened to a couple girls who relocated for their boyfriends careers. I told my husband while dating that I was not going to agree to something like that because I was not foolish, but if we were committed I would be willing to shift things around to support his aspirations. We dated for a year and a half living separately prior to engagement. We moved in together in my home state about four or five months after getting engaged. We moved out of state together three months before the wedding, a bit over a year after getting engaged. I think that ny boundary of refusing to cohabit without a ring helped ensure my husband actually proposed. He would not have been particularly motivated to do so if he got all the wife perks without actually needing to commit. Once you cohabit it is easy to live as married people for years without ever making that step. Sometimes I wish I had waited to move in until just prior to the wedding because we got less of that newly wed stage since we had already been living as a married couple for a year prior to the wedding. We figured out our compatibility though before we moved in together. It's not that hard if you are observant and pay attention to details.

Kara__El · 2019-09-05T14:08:47+00:00

I disagree that relationships are as formulaic as we sometimes portray them. For example, I married a very alpha man and we go toe-to-toe a lot more than I imagine this sub would condone. If we didn't, though, we both know that he would steamroll me. Sometimes I have to remind him that he is not the only grownup in this marriage, at a level of insistence he will actually hear, despite what Laura Doyle might advise.

healthyelegant · 2019-09-05T14:45:46+00:00

I agree that screening before getting married by living together is a good option for some people. I chose to live with my now husband after being together for 4 years. We knew within 6 months of dating each other that we would marry, but we were very young and going to college, so we discussed waiting until after we both graduated to move in together and get engaged. Once we moved in with each other, I made it clear to him that we needed to be engaged within the next 1.5 years. So he was able to save enough money to afford the ring and then we even waited another 1.75 years after that to actually get married, because weddings are expensive and we wanted a big one. It worked for us because we were always in communication about our futures and expectations. The only reason we held back was due to money and age.

pyrehoula · 2019-09-05T14:52:44+00:00

I agree with you on the cohabitation thing. My granny was the most “red pill” woman I’ve ever met in my life and her biggest piece of advice to me was to live with a man before marrying him.

My grandfather was extremely kind to her until they moved in together; he became verbally abusive and extremely controlling two days into living together in their first home after their honeymoon. She made it “work,” meaning kept him as content as possible without making herself or her children live in constant torment, by picking her battles. She fought to be able to read the Bible and go to church, to keep her children safer than they otherwise would have been, and to keep him from killing her cats, and that was it. Now, I don’t believe that if someone posted here asking for advice about this exact situation that anyone would tell her to stay and make it work, but her mindset was that divorce wasn’t an option and when you go into marriage with that mindset, like most RPW do, you need to make 100% sure that the person you’re marrying is worthy of being married to. You only really know someone when you live with them.

Anyway, here’s my answer to the actual question: The major disagreement I have with RP theory is the belief that the feminine gender role is an innate part of being biologically female. I didn’t come out of the womb with a desire to wear dresses and mascara and no human being is born submissive. Almost all of of the traits we associate with femininity are unnaturally assigned to the female sex. Were they not, then why are women raised in more traditional households more feminine, and men raised in more progressive households more feminine, and vice versa? Something that is innate is something like our desire for companionship because nearly every single person desires it in some way, and those who don’t are typically traumatized or have other serious underlying issues, and a lot of the time these people do need it but don’t know how to accept it. Not every woman is feminine, and many women are perfectly content being unfeminine.

Society reinforces gender roles (yes, even now in our more liberal society, and IMO even more so - the more things change, the more they stay the same) therefore there are benefits to “playing the game.” Taking the red pill is about playing the game because it benefits us. Despite not believing that mascara is a biological need, I wear it because I’m treated better when I do. I enjoy being feminine because I enjoy being treated the way feminine women are treated. It’s a trained response, really. It’s easier than going off course and there are incentives to sticking to the status quo.

You can view this as a good thing or a bad thing; these aren’t value judgements, they’re observations. Whether it’s good or bad, however, the facts remain that women who act feminine will be treated differently, and I, and others here, enjoy the benefits of being feminine. Even if someone does see gender roles as harmful, we’re not going to see a societal change in our lifetime or even our great grandchildren’s lifetimes, so why not “play the game” of femininity if we enjoy the results?

NotALawyerButt · 2019-09-05T14:10:46+00:00

Women age like milk, men age like wine. Also, men not caring what kind of money women make.

I’m a professional, single lady in her late twenties. My single professional male peers are mostly dating women like me, not 22 year old virgins. Some of the married ones have drunkenly bragged to me about landing a wife who brings home good money.

melitele3 · 2019-09-05T14:21:10+00:00

I agree with you.

I have lived with my husband before marriage. We have been dating for 3.5 years online before the move and we could never experience spending time and getting to know each other in real life because we were on different continents.

I decided that marrying a person that I have never spent time with for long time in real life, just to be able to live with each other would be irresponsible and unwise.

I didn’t start living with him to keep my options open before marriage or to decide that if I don’t like something about him I am going to dump him. I did it because there are people who can play and put a facade of who they are. They can lie about habits or beliefs. They can hide debts or addictions. They can hide being abusing or aggressive. You don’t really know the person entirely before you start living with each other. And especially for cases like mine - dating online - it is so easy to create an ideal image of yourself.

What if I married a man who didn’t share same values as me and wouldn’t want to work on these aspects or wouldn’t want to create the life that he promised? Life is a gamble indeed but I prefer to eliminate stupid mistakes. I am not religious, I am an atheist who has conservative views and I as well do not consider a divorce ever - UNLESS the man I married would commit some horrible crime or absolutely deceived me and did something threatening to our family behind my back.

I do not criticize women who prefer to wait till marriage as it is their life choice and it doesn’t really matter if I consider it a bit light headed.

Thankfully for me my husband turned out to be exactly the same and even better and we are now married :)

PLUS: I don’t agree a man won’t be motivated to propose to you just because he already gets the wife benefits. My husband was the one who was keep talking about getting married and asking when should we do it while we were already living with each other. He wanted us to be a family not only relationship.

dangernoodle88 · 2019-09-05T17:28:36+00:00

The "No Feminism" rule. I think feminism has its place and while some things aren't great (i.e. encouraging hook up culture) some things are (like women being able to vote). I just think that, like everything else, you have to be a critical consumer and recognize when the message is dumb.

imanewwoman · 2019-09-05T18:05:21+00:00

I guess I should answer the actual question, which was what I disagree with...TRP says that women can not love men the way men love women. There is this idea that men are free from utilitarian thinking and can truly love unconditionally. I take the stance that men and women can be equally opportunistic, pragmatic, and utilitarian when it comes to choosing a partner. Men can also be just as prone to having an affair or wanting an upgrade as women can. I think the way men talk about their female partners over on the men's forums showcases that they are plenty capable of assessing a relationship as a cost benefit analysis as opposed to embracing a sense of truly loving any of the women involved. In fact, loving a woman seems to be discouraged in a lot of ways which begs the question, does it even matter if TRP believes men are capable of a more genuine love if it actively discourages it? I am a cynic and believe almost all humans, regardless of gender, are prone to egoism. This belief is reinforced by both TRP and RPW posts. The reason I have enjoyed the material in these communities is because I feel it gives a framework to circumvent this weakness in human nature when applied properly.

secretladyaccount · 2019-09-06T05:47:51+00:00

Monogamy being requisite (if you TRULY don't want that; no one should be forced into nonmonog but I would be miserable monog), and the appropriate timeline for marriage. The majority of people in my immediate family dated their partner for over 10 years before marrying, and I am very likely to do the same. I think that by say year 4 or 5 you need to be on the same PAGE about eventual marriage and family life, but it doesn't necessarily need to happen right then.

Throwaway230306 · 2019-09-05T14:02:43+00:00

You make an interesting point--the not living together until marriage advice may be wise in theory, but it's similar to staying a virgin until marriage--very difficult to do in the Western, secular world. You will not find a lot of secular guys who'll take you up on that.

I live in the Midwest (middle of the road conservative/moderate environment), and nearly everyone I know who's married lived together before marriage/engagement. The only exception I'm aware of is a conservative Jewish couple in my circle of acquaintances who went from first date to wedding in 7 months.

happilyever23 · 2019-09-05T12:48:30+00:00

Premarital cohabitation has higher rates of divorce.

just_a_mum · 2019-09-05T17:17:50+00:00

I don't believe that all women should follow rp, that is should be a choice. I also don't believe that, as others have said, being rp is biological for all women. The fact that there are gay women is proof enough of that.

I also don't think that your past should affect your future. But that might be just because of my personal situation.

I agree with the sentiment that serious couples should live together before getting married. A good friend of mine had serious issues with marriage right now which she says is because they never lived together first and she regrets it.

Whopper_Jr · 2019-09-05T23:31:08+00:00

Agree on the point of cohabitation, and would also add that there should be experimental periods during which hormonal birth control (and possibly SSRIs and other similar substances) should be abstained from in order to fully gauge compatibility if you are seriously considering marriage.

NicoleInBlue · 2019-09-08T10:58:36+00:00

Well, I don't diasgree with the theory per say, but I think there are exceptions regarding high n-count. If your SMV is high enough and you have strong girl game, you can get away with promisucous reputation. I'm not sure if it's them being lucky or exceptionally beautiful or a combination of both, but I know ladies who have had their fun in their 20s and still managed to marry successful men with options in their 30s. Go figure.

jacksheart · 2019-09-05T15:55:25+00:00

I don't believe in Red Pill being rooted in biology/evolution. For me all gender roles are constructed. I don't believe that men and women are born different with different attitudes towards sex, mating, etc.

RP is still helpful for me. It doesn't matter to my daily life whether gender roles are a construct or not. Following RP guidelines helped me to more fulfilling relationships and a better understanding of men.

Sunshinegirl886 · 2019-09-06T22:29:41+00:00

I disagree with the multiple partners being a turnoff for men thing. When I met my then husband to be, I'd only slept with three people. Not only was my husband surprised, he also wished I'd been with MORE guys. Even to this day he lets me know that if I ever want to, we can talk about it and make it happen.

Everyone has personal preferences and in this day and age, I think a lot of men don't really care about your number, they care about how you make them feel. Just my experience.

ThatStepfordGal · 2019-09-06T05:00:17+00:00

I guess this is the more modern angle of things - that women can be domestic, at home, having more time there only after they’re married/have kids. It’s not an unlockable in a game. Women can be domestic and spend more time at home doing domestic work if they want to. No matter what time of their lives. People, usually Western people have comfortable, high financial standards of living (saying this as I grew up in a third world country) compared to most of the world. If you live in a first world country, you can survive on one income or one and a half if you live simply. It’s such an extreme-capitalist way of judging a woman’s work ethic and skills to just count outside, money-wage work and not household work.

Women who want to should be allowed to do their domestic work and have more time at home, even working part time, married or not. It’s achievable and should not be considered lesser than someone that works full time. Both are work and earn equally important things. It earns time for those they live with.

What if they live with family and want to look after them domestically? What if they want to do that with friends? What if they want to do that with their spouse even without children?

Title	What's the one thing you disagree regarding TRPW theory?
Author	uniqueeleni
Upvotes	106
Comments	168
Date	September 5, 2019 12:32 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	/r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/whats-the-one-thing-you-disagree-regarding-trpw.252024 https://theredarchive.com/post/252024
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/d00708/whats_the_one_thing_you_disagree_regarding_trpw/