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Where do you draw the line between girlfriend and wife duties?

[deleted]
March 25, 2021
106 upvotes
/r/RedPillWomen

[deleted]

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Title Where do you draw the line between girlfriend and wife duties?
Author [deleted]
Upvotes 106
Comments 69
Date March 25, 2021 10:50 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/where-do-you-draw-the-line-between-girlfriend-and.1187654
https://theredarchive.com/post/1187654
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/mdammx/where_do_you_draw_the_line_between_girlfriend_and/
Comments

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]delidoll 24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He definitely does know how to do things and while his cleaning isn’t exactly up to my standards it’s not a disgusting pig sty (ex. I dust as part of my cleaning routine, he doesn’t even think about it, that sorta thing). I really like how you explained it. The nice gestures vs. expected. That’s a really good rule of thumb and an easy thing to keep an eye out for although I haven’t had problems yet. Cheers!!

[–]OmarNBradley 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cooking, cleaning, laundry, none of that is necessarily "wife stuff." Marriage is not about getting somebody to cook for (or to cook for you), it is the formation of a family.

I have been married for nearly 20 years. My husband and I lived together before we married, I cooked and cleaned and did all that good stuff. But we didn't join bank accounts until after the wedding. (The Monday after, to be precise.) We didn't become one another's insurance beneficiaries until we were married. We didn't buy property together, and I certainly didn't have his children.

Chores are meaningless and I don't know why everybody defaults to them when talking about "wife stuff."

[–]usernameagain2 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is redpill. If he’s onboard he should appreciate these contributions as those of his spouse. That’s the point of all this. If he’s thinking of your contributions as motherly that’s messed up.

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Does it make you happy to help him? Then do it. Does he demand or expect this from you? That’s something to take notice of. Helping each other is what forms a good relationship as long as you don’t feel like you’re being used. Everyone acts as though we should be waited on hand and foot but doing acts of service to each other and being appreciated for them is actually what makes us like the other person more.

[–]delidoll 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this! Thank you!

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's a bit too early and perhaps you should do this after you move in together. Doing the cleaning in your shared apartment is fine, but cleaning his apartment where he lives? Hmm... perhaps a bit too much! In the end though, you have to ask yourself if he fully compensates for it by equally fulfilling his manly duties. Paying for dates is one thing, but will he pay for a house? What will happen when both of you will be working full time?

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 75 points76 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Where do you draw the line between girlfriend and wife duties?

You don't.

Women often think things like this:

However, I often see stuff that’s like “don’t be a wife to your boyfriend because he’ll start looking at you like his mother”

... because they don't understand men.

Men are different from women. Women give because they anticipate future benefit (Briffault's Law). Men give because they have received benefit (reciprocity).

Thus, women who are confused about men often think they should withhold something so that men will marry them to get it. But men don't marry women in the hopes that something will change. They marry women because they hope that nothing will change. They do it because they want to make their current situation permanent.

[–]HappilyMrs 25 points26 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So how do so many women end up in cohabiting LTRs but never manage to get marriage from him?

[–]bchlladyfrog 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men give because they have received benefit (reciprocity).

I think the key word here is "benefit". Maybe those men don't percieve what the woman offers as a true benefit.

[–]gotgame740 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot. The problem is cohabitation, not giving wife benefits to the RIGHT man.

[–]Crazy_Cranberry666 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think i agree with this either. That would mean a man would never do something nice if you didn't do something for him first, doesn't sound very kind.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

I don't think this is 100% correct. Rebecca Lynn Pope for example (a pretty red pilled dating coach) said that men won't marry if they don't have a benefit for it and many others say the same

[–]All_Lurk_No_Post3650 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

It's true, HVM know the risks of marriage.... As nice as a woman doing domestic chores and cooking is, it's definitely not going to make us marry you and withholding those nice things is also not going to make a HVM get married.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Of course, marriage is much more than chores and looks, else men would just hire escorts and buy a roomba

[–]degenerativebastard 0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah. What is the benefit for men from marriage?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

First there are the benefits for both sexes: a partner to help you in life whenever you are sick or busy; somebody who intimately knows you and inspires you and supports you. Then, men can't really carry or nurse children. Then, having a job and running a family household is impossible to squeeze in a 24 hour day. Sure, it's nice for a man to perpetually date young hot women, but the overwhelming majority of men are happier with one woman who offers both the romantic sexual aspects and the practical aspects of home life

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We aren't here to debate marriage.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well how do you define 'solid'? Don't you find there needs to be a line drawn somewhere to separate casual flings and partners commited for life? Marriage was first a societal practice and a religious ceremony before it was on paper

[–]degenerativebastard 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Right, so I’d say that the societal, intentional practice of marriage is good. But there’s almost no upside and a lot of downside to the legal aspect of it

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well laws and civil codes can always change or you could get pre-nups. There is no upside to not getting married either since most countries now recognise cohabitation and child support is paid by dna test, not married. Better just have a contract drawn up that both parties agree is fair, basically "i bet x that i will never ever leave you" and just get done with it

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

That's not necessarily the question. You are describing some of the benefits of a long term stable relationship. I think you were being asked what the benefits of marriage, the legal status, are, for men.

I think that's it's fairly easy to understand the former, but, under current laws in most of western civilization, it's pretty hard to point out any benefits that a man derives from actually signing those papers.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I'm not fully knowledgable of the laws, but I take not signing the papers as a red flag. If my partner is so afraid of divorce and doesn't trust that I will not leave him, then there is no point in continuing the relationship, no point in me crippling myself with pregnancy and child care a d wasting my best looking years. P.S. no fault divorce is a cancer upon society

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Well, anyone is free to impose any conditions on a relationship that they like, because the other person can always say "no thanks" and leave.

However, that still isn't an answer.

The question wasn't "why would a man agree to sign the papers?", is was "is there any advantage to a man in signing the papers?".

In seven or eight years of working on all this redpill material, I have been unable to discover one. I'm still open on hearing suggestions, but nobody else has been able to give me one that checks out, either.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Well I don't live in the West, I am in East Europe, so our laws aren't the same to give you an accurate answer. One example from our laws is that you get free health insurance if you are unemployed, but the wife is. Even so, they keep changing the civil code every few years, but historically it protected men from adultery and paternity fraud. Adulterous married women were punished by law and divorce settlements were different for adulterous women. I wouldn't know where that still applies today. Edit: yep, I checked, under Romanian law, if one partner is at fault for the divorce (ex an abusive or cheating woman), the other is entitled to compensation. Edit2: in case of divorce, even if the wife sues the man, if the man can prove in court that the wife is actually at fault, he is still entitled to compensation

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Okay, well, what legal expertise I possess is solely focused on American law, with a little English Common Law thrown in. So when you talk about Romania, I know only what web searches tell me.

In America, marriage is not so much a deal that is no longer worth it for men, as a deal that offers exactly nothing. A husband has no additional rights beyond what a cohabiting boyfriend has, and a number of enforceable additional responsibilities.

This is why I teach men (in TRP) that marriage is simply off the table... as in "under no circumstances".

And that generally raises the question "are the risks that bad?". But that's not the point. It doesn't matter how likely the risks are... a risk for no reward is always a bad deal, no matter how slight the risk. That's why, when you drive, you wear your seat belt... not because you think an accident is likely, but because it costs nothing to wear one, and it protects you in the unlikely event that something goes wrong.

Now, sure, women in the west still want men to marry them... that makes perfect sense. They gain legal protections and social status. But since men gain nothing, women in the west have only two options to get men to propose. First, they can try to make him happy, grateful, and protective enough that he just wants to make a romantic gesture and see her smile. Second, they can give an ultimatum... marry me or I will leave you.

Both of these can work in some cases, but western women also need to realize that some western men know all of this stuff, and may resent attempts to manipulate them into a deal with nothing in it for them.

Now, I have no problem telling women here how to get men to go for it, because I take no responsibility for men who don't listen to my advice.

[–]Advanced_Bar_673Endorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

u/Whisper I've been racking my brain trying to come up with one advantage to marriage for a Western man, and I'm sad that I can't even think of one. Maybe a woman can offer a pre nup that guarantees he won't be fleeced if a divorce occurs, but this isn't an "advantage", just an insurance policy that he will break even, so to speak :(

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

And the divorce rate for USA is at 40%! I am curious, how would you reform marriage laws or the societal aspect of it?

[–]gosamadhi1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Could you please elaborate on your last sentence? I'm currently giving my husband no fault divorce and wondering if I misssed out on something?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

First, it ruins the idea of marriage by implementing the idea that the two partners can just change their minds about it. Second, it's the reason why divorce is normalised and at sky high rates today, which leads to generations of children who are emotionally crippled by growing up with a single parent and that is something we heavily overlook. My mother divorced my father when I was two, basically robbing me of a male role model, leading to me having severe issues. Growing up without both parents is a great predictor of criminality and many other issues. There are countries which have 25% divorce rates or even 50% divorce rates ... I really can't believe that a quarter or half the people around have issues so sever that they can't stay together, I think it's something about the ease to which divorce is given that is ruining families. I don't want to delve into the bitter manosphere here, but an entire movement was founded on basically the fear of beind divorced. Something along the way is very very wrong

[–]666RealGod 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝

[–]Vidhik2906 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think men love when a woman can give him both a caring mother and a sexy girlfriend vibe. It is the nagging and being told what to do that they hate. They don't like being told to do something they dislike (neither do women), no one does actually like to be bossed around.

Also, mature couple don't have to play any games, they do what naturally comes to them. Just make sure to have a life of your own and be his happy place where he craves to come to after a stressful day and he will never ever think of being seperated from you. P.S. I am married to a high value man and we have had no problems so far. I don't even call it a traditional set up since we both just work on making our lives the best we can.

[–]Jenna_Rink30 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

My ex was an investment banker. He paid for everything. I’d stay with him every so often, at most for about 2 weeks at a time, and when I did chores he told me that I wasn’t a maid and I should just relax. I never cooked. But we had a maid and ate take out every day.

It was great for the 1.5 or so years we were together. We didn’t work out and I’m glad, he wasn’t the one. But I’ve been in your shoes basically.

My ex never treated me like a wife and expected 0 from me. So I think break it down to expectations. If you stopped doing what you do, would he stop dating you? What would happen?

Him paying for dates is very different than chores. Dates are for the both of you. As my ex told me, when he pays for dinner, he’s eating too. But if I was cleaning his house, I was doing it for him not us. I didn’t live there and it wasn’t my house. Anyway that’s how he explained it when he said I wasn’t a maid. So I’d clean when I was there for more than a few days, because it benefited us, but not if I was there overnight.

Anyway. Very rambling. Hope it makes sense.

[–]dooky21 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol so only did something for both of you, never just for him. Sounds like you had a sweet deal with the investment banker, good luck finding that again

[–]Jenna_Rink30 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He was generous in those ways but money isn’t everything. I was just using that as an example as it’s my own experience.

I’m now settled down with the most amazing man. We share chores and expenses, but it’s not 50/50 and he’s the financial backbone, whereas I cook, tidy up as much as I can, and try to make sure that he is well-served.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]gosamadhi3 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It would be pretty funny if he looked at 26 years younger woman as his mother

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]delidoll 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

yooo he is very appreciative of the things I do for him...I definitely didn’t say anything about that. His mother was a housewife and he deeply respects her. I was just seeing where other people have drawn the line or even if they did at all.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]delidoll 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m sorry that you’re going through something right now...I hope your situation gets better. Sending love.

[–][deleted]  (24 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]delidoll 1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Can you explain?

[–][deleted]  (20 children) | Copy Link

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[–]delidoll 7 points8 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

I did not say I live with him. I don’t. I live at my parents while i go to school. We limit seeing each other to two or three times a week. Also, he doesn’t look at me as an object that he can get things from just like I don’t look at him as a bank machine or a place to stay when I don’t want to be at my parents. He views me as a person he’s in love with who shares similar values as him and vice versa. We’re not moving any further in our relationship until I graduate from school, get a job, and we are both 100% sure we want to get married. I was asking what other women who are married did in their relationship during the dating phase and what boundaries were drawn, that’s all.

[–]mementoEstis 6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

This is this person’s opinion on the red pill

It’s called the “red pill” dating strategy. Google can answer that question for you. I’m saying, don’t internalize this vernacular or implement its principles into your dating life/strategy. Don’t read into it. It’s a destructive social element & internet subculture. It’ll leech into your dating life & sabotage your confidence. Leave it alone.

They hang out in over 30, over 40 dating spaces, alternative dating spaces, and mostly just to aggressively push on people with bad faith arguments.

They spend their time judging people’s relationships on Reddit across a dozen subs all day, and based on the spaces, are likely aging and have failed to secure a LTR.

They aren’t here to help you, and a mod should be by to clean them up.

[–][deleted]  (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mementoEstis 7 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You come into a situation with a passive aggressive attack on OP like a 16 year old bully despite being a supposedly mature woman and that’s your defense?

Where to begin.

First mistake is assuming every man lowers himself to the least he can do the first time you invest in him. If that’s the kind you have attracted and dealt with that’s on you, men of value consistently reinvest where they see their time and effort paying off, they don’t chase sunk costs.

This means your theory on playing hold out is what creates your own failure. Men who want to invest move on quickly from anything not quickly payoff, they don’t “wait and hope one day this woman will be a home maker”, they marry the one that is a homemaker from the start.

But again, that depends on the man. A loser will always be a loser and investing in him won’t pull him out of that, but if a man is showing investment and making any promising contributions towards developing the relationship, the response is to double down on putting that into him, if you hold anything back he will find a girl that doesn’t play those games.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mementoEstis 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

> You’re missing the nuance of dating relationships.

No, you're bad faith arguing a non-RPW perspective. And you are signaling that loud and clear with your language.

> A woman can exude domesticity and its qualities without applying the labor, in her dating life.

Ever heard the phrase "all talk and no walk?"

> We’re all told not to date for potential; that goes both ways.

contradicts everything you just said. Men don't want to see a woman "exude potential that they may make a good wife" they want to see the effort to take on the roll.

> Until you’re married, you’re only playing house.

Which is why you are alone. You consider being a critical job in a relationship just playing unless it already has the ring you were never given.

> You can show gratitude for good dates without that transactional gesture of doing chores to compensate (basically chore-play).

again, play, you disrespect women who chose this path, and resent you never got the chance.

> You can have high standards for treatment and still be fun and sexy, when bf offers a nice place to hang out and relax.

If all you are bringing to the relationship is "fun and sexy" you will be used for fun and sexy until serious comes along.

> That makes for good, at-home dates that don’t require labor on anyone’s part.

relationships are effort. If you want more than just a "sex pall", then one of the biggest benefits is that both partners can take on specialties to make domestic life smoother for everyone. Part of this is cohabitating and and seeing if you can mesh as a team before making a serious life long commitment.

> You can call me whatever you want but that’s the whole point of RPW.

Something you completely don't understand, don't want to, and seek to derail.

> Conflating feminists with “man hating”/misandry shows a sheer misunderstanding of what feminist theory intends to accomplish (the further empowerment of women and men from the social/emotional/political burdens of patriarchy/misogyny). But that’s a different topic. Thanks for trying to derail this one.

Another of your comments from purple pill debate. You are a feminist, this is an anti feminist space. Your advice only leads to being a spinster.

Let me tell you what men are looking for in 2021 if they want to be serious.

There are a huge amount of both men and women today who are perpetual children and never learned remotely to be an adult. There are also a ton of super independent people who are very happy doing things 100% there own way. Both of these groups of people are incompatible with being a spouse.

Being married is about being able to mesh into a successful team. RPW is about using the traditional domestic framework as the model to build that team, with the goal of achieving a life long stable marriage to build your life on, and a partnership you can share until the very end. It's to have some one you can hold frail hand in hand at 90 at be able to gaze back at a journey inseparably shared, and a story forged together you would explore again in a heart beat.

Men who are looking for that are looking for a woman eager and excited to be part of a team, to want to cohabitate, balance duties together and let him lead them both through that path they share. They are looking for a woman who is quick to take on work, expects the same from him, and feels more excited to improve personally and within the relationship for their partner then they would be just for themselves.

No man who is looking for this wants the "strong independent don't need a man" type because too many women who have those independent vibes treat every little bit of independence they lose as a sacrifice and trying to work with them is a constant chore he doesn't need.

So please, find the door, I'm sorry things didn't work out for you, don't drag the rest of the crabs down into your bucket.

[–]delidoll 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

THANK YOU for taking the time to type this out. This is what I was thinking the entire time. I’m not playing house. We’re not playing house. We’re merging into a team. I have more to offer than just sex and some fun on a Friday night. I’m there to cook dinner after a stressful day at work and I know he’d do the same for me in a heartbeat. I was looking for married women’s advice, not whatever this person (who doesn’t sound like somebody who has ever been in a serious relationship considering how they view relationships) was trying to give. Thank you thank you thank you.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]delidoll 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I...don’t think you & I have similar values. Thanks for your advice but my boyfriend and I are very happy. He does plenty of things for me that me helping him out chores wise isn’t that big of a deal and I know he appreciates it. To me, relationships of any kind are about making each others lives easier in whatever way you see fit. He pays for my food/drinks when we go out because he knows I can’t afford it while I’m in school. I do his laundry when I see notice that his basket is full. It doesn’t mean he won’t do it, it means I’m trying to make his life easier the way he makes mine easier. It’s not like the man doesn’t eat when I’m not around to cook? I do it because I’m in love with him. You sound bitter and honestly not very red pill. Maybe you should try a different sub.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Chance_Base_854 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can't learn who they are until you live with them... The rest just sounds like you're hiding from the relationship, hiding from each other. It makes no sense... Don't live with someone you plan to live with forever...

[–]aussiedollface2 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it’s okay, but cleaning his apartment that you don’t live in might be a bit much (a bit of tidying is fine). You want him to see your place and enjoy how lovely and tidy and nice it is by comparison so he can compare it to his in his mind xo

[–]aigars2 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

At one point he will loose sex appeal. No matter what you do. Are you a wife or a one night stand. It doesn't matter. That's inevitable. What happens after that is what holds people together. Do they have common interests, things to be excited about, can they live together without fighting each other. Is he doing manly fatherly stuff? If yes, then you should definitely do motherly stuff to show you can be a good mother to your kids.

P.s. Man in mid 30 married for almost 10 years.

[–]anothergoodbook3 Stars 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

A lot of it comes down to - if you’re doing it now (and presumably having sex) then he has no incentive to marry you eventually. He has everything he wants, will he commit eventually?

[–]delidoll 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

We both want children...he knows I will not have his kids if there is not a ring on my finger. We also discuss our childhoods and how we were raised and talk about what we would change to raise kids. Just this morning he made a comment about him being my husband in the future. I’m really not worried about his ability to commit.

[–]anothergoodbook3 Stars 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well - sounds like you’ve worked out a good fit :)

Some of the boyfriend vs husband thing also comes down to how much input/say he has about decisions you make (which is different then what you’re asking I realize).

[–]delidoll 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

hmmm...I definitely do listen to him about some things but others I don’t. I’m not building my future around him just yet but I do take his feelings and whatnot into consideration. I think this question is being taken in a million different ways and it’s becoming blurry lol. Thank you for your answer! I appreciate it!

[–]anothergoodbook3 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In regards to the question - I think it depends on what you’re comfortable with. Being too entwined without an actual commitment (not a conversation of one) is not a great idea. But you’ll get lots of different answers based on everyone’s personal comfort level.

[–]gotgame740 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing wrong with this approach. If you see him as husband material, then you want to make sure he sees you as wife material.

One question though. Do you guys live together? I don’t really recommend living together, and that would also throw off the dynamic that you want to set.

[–]DownvoteMe2021 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He's happy.
You're happy.

Don't worry about what the internet says is the right measurement of this or that. Make it clear (if you're ready) that you enjoy this dynamic and would like to see it continue. If his end or your end starts to fall down, re-address the topic then.

[–]IcarusKiki 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I put in the effort the guy puts it. If he has a wonderful job and is paying for a lot of my things and fixing stuff around the house and putting me first I do wife duties along with the gf ones. If he doesn’t have a job and is still a student and we go 50/50 he gets gf duties but not wife ones. If we aren’t living together im probably not going to mess with his apartment.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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